3.5 Alternate ways of doing Xp costs

[Theodrud]

Im currently running a game in which I simply raise the characters levels when they complete an long quest or plotline. Its just less complex that way. However, this leaves the problem of dealing with spells that have xp as a component. Any idea's for possible alternatives to xp?

[Troacctid]

1 xp = 5 gp

That's how Pathfinder does it and it seems to work okay most of the time.

[Der_DWSage]

There's also the idea of having Crafting XP set aside just for crafting. 10% of the amount needed to reach their current level sounds like a good number off the top of my head, and just giving them small amounts here and there at relevant points.

[Theodrud]

The problem with gold is that its easily exploitable with transmutation quickly giving them access to very powerful spells such as wish, and having a separate kind of xp sort of defeats the whole reason why I dont do xp in the first place; its a hassle to keep track of.

[Troacctid]

If you're already letting your players gain infinite gp with transmutation spells, I think you're past the point where you need to be worried about xp costs giving them access to powerful spells such as wish, seeing as they can already buy all the scrolls they want and have the xp cost prepaid. I would suggest you consider not letting your players gain infinite gp with transmutation spells. :smalltongue:

[Theodrud]

Lets say that I didn't allow them access to those sorts of spells. Even then gold is cheap. Maybe for spells of low xp cost it would work, but xp costs are meant to hurt and 1000 xp spell would put you significantly back a level.

[Troacctid]

It's okay if it's a little less punishing than an xp cost, since xp costs are very punishing to begin with anyway (it's not for nothing that later editions of D&D abandoned them). It should still accomplish the goal of stopping casters from spamming wish and alter fortune all over the place. Losing items is a real cost, and if you cast from your wallet too often, it adds up pretty quickly. What's important is that they're not getting it for free.

[Larrx]

xp costs may well have been intended to hurt, but in practice they really don't. If one player ends up at a lower level than the rest of the party due to spending xp, they gain more xp per encounter. They will quickly catch up, and in some case overtake the rest of the party. xp costs are at best a temporary set back, and waving them entirely to save on book keeping probably wont change much. The amount of time crafting takes is enough of balancing factor imo. I like to use time to balance spells that cost xp as well. Sometimes I make players wait a day or two between castings in lieu of paying xp.

[Yahzi]

1 xp = 5 gp
Indeed, you can also do it the other way: 5 gp = 1 xp. I have a whole world where Xp and gold are interchangeable. It sounds odd, but it works really well. Players decide whether to invest in levels or magic items or henchmen. Great wealth has a meaning, since it yields power: rich men are also powerful men who have the strength to defend their wealth. Kings are fearsome because they are king.

[Bullet06320]

1 xp = 5 gp


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

under creating magic items in the DMG and on the SRD 5gp=1xp
we translate it to be the equivalent of higher cost or higher quality material components for both magic items and spells for most things around my table

[lsfreak]

Depending on the exact thing in question, I'd choose one of three:
1) Eliminate the cost. This especially goes for things like potions that aren't cost-effective to begin with, but I'd probably use it for most cases outside special crafted items.
2) 1xp=5gp rule. Personally I dislike this for item crafting, I'd rather waive the cost entirely except maybe in a few fringe cases. But it's an easy fix, and probably works best for spells with XP costs.
3) Non-numeric requirements. Finding special items, being at special places, or something else. This one takes much more to implement because it pretty much has to be all on a case-by-case basis. It really can't be included in common stuff like basic weapon enhancements and most or even all spells with XP costs, and needs the DM to be comfortable coming up with what's commonly available and what has special cost to it, as both players and the game have assumptions about what's going to be available. In addition, the special cost must add to the fun of the game rather than subtracting from it. The second the players are frustrated because of the time they're spending chasing down a special crystal to make a custom stave work, or because the sorcerer wants to farm up the mats for a bunch of limited wishes, the implementation has failed.

[Doc_Maynot]

For items, I expand the Transference spell allowing persons to transfer the XP to a physical material to be used in any crafting. (Due to it's ability being used in any crafting the group just calls it "Liquid 'Meh'") Ends up being 5gp=1xp and the characters have used the method to gain some quick gold before.

For spells, I allow them to use souls as a material component from BoVD (I think? I just have the rules written down in my notes), but that is about it.

[NNescio]

Indeed, you can also do it the other way: 5 gp = 1 xp. I have a whole world where Xp and gold are interchangeable. It sounds odd, but it works really well. Players decide whether to invest in levels or magic items or henchmen. Great wealth has a meaning, since it yields power: rich men are also powerful men who have the strength to defend their wealth. Kings are fearsome because they are king.

That's how it used to work in OD&D (AKA 0th Edition), except it was 1 gp = 1 xp.

[Ashtagon]

Each character has a lifetime pool of virtual XP for use in crafting equal to 10% [1] of the XP he would have earned to gain his current level.

If that virtual XP runs out, he can't make any more magic items, or they come with random side-effects that can't be removed.

He can get a refund on spent virtual XP if he personally destroys the item in a special ritual that takes as long as it took to craft it in the first place. This obviously can't be done with potions and scrolls.

[1] Adjust to suit preferences.

[Zirconia]

Each character has a lifetime pool of virtual XP for use in crafting equal to 10% [1] of the XP he would have earned to gain his current level.
[1] Adjust to suit preferences.

My current game has somewhat modified spell casting and heavily modified item crafting, and the way the item crafting works is that each character has a "pool" of mana which is, coincidently, their WBL. If you want a magic item to work for you, you have to link it to that pool (just come up with a ritual taking however long you want, which anyone can do). You can unlink it again when you want, if you want to swap to something else. The mana needed to get an item to work is, also coincidently, its GP value.

Thus you can make item crafting pretty easy, but you also have a mechanism to prevent someone from having 200,000 worth of gear at 5th level, and people have to make hard choices on what items they want to be able to use. If you want a bit higher power game, and reward people for crafting gear, allow a reduced mana-to-gold multiplier if they make it themself.

Similarly, feel free to carry a stack of scrolls, but if you want to use them it ties up some of your mana pool you could be using on a +2 Int booster or something. Once they are cast, so the mana pool is no longer tied up, you can write some more, of course.

It is also a nice way to unlink "wealth" from "dungeoning gear", so a character can own a ship, for example, without it counting against them.

We haven't really gotten high enough to worry about any spells with XP costs, but really there are other things a DM can do to manage things like Wish, up to and including removing it as a player spell, and a lot of other XP required spells really don't need that as a balancing factor IMHO. If you still want that, just make those spells tie up 1 or more mana per XP for a day per spell level, or a week per spell level or something like that. That forces the player to keep some uncommitted mana if they want to be able to do those spells on the fly.