Is a crossbow a legitiment choice for a ranger?

[Rfkannen]

So I am playing a ranger, not yet level 4, who took the archery fighting style, 18 dexterity, dwarf, yada yada yada. And I was thinking, Since me and the rogue are the only people with bows, we are pretty much never going to be super far away. And crossbows are cool. So maybe I should start useing crossbows.

What do you think about crossbows? I know they need a feat before being useful, is it worth it? I would still like to be able to snipe with a longbow, even if I am usualy more close range. How are they?

ps. Side question, but at the moment I just feel like a worse version of the cleric and the rogue. Not being able to heal as well, and not being able to stealth that well, withought very much that only I can do. Should this rectify as we level? Don't mind that much, I mean I still have indiviual stuff rp wise, being the only one speaking orc and all that, but I have not played a ranger before, and was wondering if at higher level ill still feel like a character half way between the rogue and the cleric?

pss. If I have favorite enemy human and orc, would you let me use my favored enemy on half orcs?

[Callin]

You will never heal like a Cleric. Dont try. You will not be as good as a Rogue speced for a certain skill set. Dont try.

That said dont worry about it. Rangers are good at scouting, specially in your terrain. You really shine there, survival, travel, scouting. Its all you. Spells? You mean combat changing tricks. Pick and chose how you want to mess up the bad guys day and let em have it.

Dont try to be another class be a Ranger dangit, and be the best dang one you can be.



(God I feel like a car salesman with that pitch)

[MadBear]

If you're going archer ranger (hunter I'm guessing) then you'll be fine using either a bow or crossbow.

As a ranger you can expect to be the best at targeting and hitting multiple opponents compared to the rogue. horde breaker for instance gives you a free extra attack. Many spells key off of giving you extra damage against every opponent (hunters mark), or due decent aoe damage. If you're trying to out single target damage a rogue, you're going to have a bad day.

Volley will give you a really competitive at will AOE attack.

Ranger spells tend towards being better for self buffing compared to the larger and more team oriented cleric.

[Rfkannen]

You will never heal like a Cleric. Dont try. You will not be as good as a Rogue speced for a certain skill set. Dont try.

That said dont worry about it. Rangers are good at scouting, specially in your terrain. You really shine there, survival, travel, scouting. Its all you. Spells? You mean combat changing tricks. Pick and chose how you want to mess up the bad guys day and let em have it.

Dont try to be another class be a Ranger dangit, and be the best dang one you can be.



(God I feel like a car salesman with that pitch)

I didn't want to be a midpoint between the two, that is just what I felt I was. So far we haven't been doing all that much scouting, and the tracking didn't even require a roll.

Also so far I have spent all my spell slots on cure wounds.


If you're going archer ranger (hunter I'm guessing) then you'll be fine using either a bow or crossbow.

As a ranger you can expect to be the best at targeting and hitting multiple opponents compared to the rogue. horde breaker for instance gives you a free extra attack. Many spells key off of giving you extra damage against every opponent (hunters mark), or due decent aoe damage. If you're trying to out single target damage a rogue, you're going to have a bad day.

Volley will give you a really competitive at will AOE attack.

Ranger spells tend towards being better for self buffing compared to the larger and more team oriented cleric.

Oh cool, I didn't think about that. Were going to be faceing an army of orcs soon, so I bet that will help. SO focus on aoe instead of single. Sounds cool
Hunter, yeah probably, only level 2 so far (we got 150 xp each in the entirty of a 4 hour session)
The thing is, I can't figure wheather it is worth it to invest in doing crossbow over bow. Because you need crossbow expert and all that. Just not sure what feat to get at level 4.

[Flashy]

I didn't want to be a midpoint between the two, that is just what I felt I was.

What do you actually want to get out of the class? I sort of get the vibe that you're trying to be a main healer who can also sneak, and are frustrated that you're not as good at it as you'd like. If this is your problem then no, you will never catch up to the cleric, the druid, or the bard in terms of magical healing. All three are full casters, and you aren't. If you want to supplement this maybe consider picking up the healer feat? It's pretty much the only thing you can do to improve your ability to heal.

[Rfkannen]

What do you actually want to get out of the class? I sort of get the vibe that you're trying to be a main healer who can also sneak, and are frustrated that you're not as good at it as you'd like. If this is your problem then no, you will never catch up to the cleric, the druid, or the bard in terms of magical healing. All three are full casters, and you aren't. If you want to supplement this maybe consider picking up the healer feat? It's pretty much the only thing you can do to improve your ability to heal.

I do not want to be the healer. That is what I felt I was being. I felt that my time was spent either trying to heal less than the cleric or trying to sneak worse than the rogue. I did not want to be a main healer. It was just that so far I have had to spend every spell slot on cure wounds.

[mephnick]

It's kind of lame to make the ranger use his spells for cures. Do you have any other access to healing?

Despite the spells and skills I think rangers are still primarily combat focused.

[Myzz]

It's kind of lame to make the ranger use his spells for cures. Do you have any other access to healing?

Despite the spells and skills I think rangers are still primarily combat focused.

Hand out good berry's and say there's all the healing I'm doing today =)

[Rfkannen]

It's kind of lame to make the ranger use his spells for cures. Do you have any other access to healing?

Despite the spells and skills I think rangers are still primarily combat focused.


Yeah we have a person with the acolyte backround, a cleric, and a paladin. Last session this is how each spell slot was. We were in a town infected by goblin feavor, I helped heal the sick(they were on verge of death so I brought them back up to full so they had a new saveing throw). In the next combat the warlock went down to 1 hit point, and the next turn was mine, and after that it was an orc's, and right before that combat the warlock fell into a pit and I healed him then. We didn't actualy take that many long rests but still.

[Easy_Lee]

Crossbows are actually the most viable ranged weapon option due to crossbow expert. Until/unless the developers release feats for other ranged options, crossbow expert is the best feat choice for a ranged character.

You will still be able to use a longbow if you choose. You will in fact be better at it due to no longer taking penalties for firing into melee range (crossbow expert grants this benefit regardless of weapon used). However, you'd be better off replacing your longbow with a heavy crossbow due to the identical range and higher damage die (+1 average damage).

The ideal setup is to keep one or two hand crossbows ready (depending on whether your DM allows the bonus action attack with the same crossbow or not) and a heavy crossbow strapped to your back for when you need the long range.

If you reach late levels, you can pickup swift quiver and switch to your heavy crossbow full-time (still gain the benefits of higher damage die and firing into melee without penalty).

In short, crossbow expert is awesome. Take it unless/until a better/equivalent ranged feat becomes available.

[SharkForce]

Crossbows are actually the most viable ranged weapon option due to crossbow expert. Until/unless the developers release feats for other ranged options, crossbow expert is the best feat choice for a ranged character.

You will still be able to use a longbow if you choose. You will in fact be better at it due to no longer taking penalties for firing into melee range (crossbow expert grants this benefit regardless of weapon used). However, you'd be better off replacing your longbow with a heavy crossbow due to the identical range and higher damage die (+1 average damage).

The ideal setup is to keep one or two hand crossbows ready (depending on whether your DM allows the bonus action attack with the same crossbow or not) and a heavy crossbow strapped to your back for when you need the long range.

If you reach late levels, you can pickup swift quiver and switch to your heavy crossbow full-time (still gain the benefits of higher damage die and firing into melee without penalty).

In short, crossbow expert is awesome. Take it unless/until a better/equivalent ranged feat becomes available.

minor correction: crossbow expert helps with shooting when you are being attacked in melee, not when you are firing into melee. otherwise, he is absolutely correct; crossbow expert on a primarily ranged build is an excellent investment, because you're likely going to want those bonuses anyways. the feat is basically worth a free +1 average damage and not taking disadvantage with your preferred weapon in melee combat.

I disagree with the advice to use hand crossbow for the bonus action attack though... a ranger should have more than enough uses for their bonus action (including making attacks) without it, most of the time. occasionally, it would be a good choice, but I'm not remotely sold on it being your best choice most of the time for a ranger.

note that you will also want sharpshooter, for the record. you may or may not want it right away, but you will want it eventually. it is amazing against targets with bad AC, and remains good against targets with moderate AC (your average damage will go up by using it most of the time... there are some charts around somewhere that can give you specific details of when to use it or not if you really want to search).

[Easy_Lee]

I disagree with the advice to use hand crossbow for the bonus action attack though... a ranger should have more than enough uses for their bonus action (including making attacks) without it, most of the time. occasionally, it would be a good choice, but I'm not remotely sold on it being your best choice most of the time for a ranger.

note that you will also want sharpshooter, for the record. you may or may not want it right away, but you will want it eventually. it is amazing against targets with bad AC, and remains good against targets with moderate AC (your average damage will go up by using it most of the time... there are some charts around somewhere that can give you specific details of when to use it or not if you really want to search).

That's fair. And yes, sharpshooter would be my next feat choice as well. There are many targets, particularly oozes and the like, with high HP but low AC. When those situations prevent themself, and any time you have advantage against a normal AC target, it's quite beneficial to use sharpshooter.

[Ashrym]

Crossbow is definitely a legitimate choice for a ranger as long as the crossbow expert feat is taken to avoid the restriction from the loading property. I would also add sharpshooter. The archery fighting style works with crossbows, which has that higher base damage, and not attacking with disadvantage within 5 ft of an opponent keeps it a melee option. If you are adding hunter's prey and hunter's mark you have some decent damage compared to the rogue.

At 5th level with extra attack and colossus slayer that's d10+4+d6+d10+4+d6+d8 for 30.5 average damage before accuracy or critical hits; 3 hand crossbow attacks in that round would be d6+4+d6+d6+4+d6+d6+4+d6+d8 for 37.5 instead but there are several options for the bonus action, like moving the hunter's mark, so I'm not convinced it's consistent enough but I'm also not convinced it's not either; it's just less than it first appears because of that bonus action requirement. The rogue would do d8+3d6+4 with the same DEX for 19 average damage before accuracy or critical hits. Rangers have pretty solid damage early because of multiple attacks and hunter's mark while the rogue picks up later, which is why you are also looking for sharpshooter later.

You won't be a great healer, but don't worry about comments that you won't be as stealthy as the rogue. You get access to pass without trace for a +10 bonus for the party. At 5 level, for example, the rogue's +6 for expertise beats your +3 for proficiency, but your +10 group wide is the master ability there. It also stacks with hide in plain site if you lay in wait for an ambush. As long as you have pass without trace and the rogue doesn't, he caps out at +17 for 20 DEX and expertise. You will cap out at +21 for 20 DEX and pass without trace, and +31 while using hide in plain sight.

The time to have been using the crossbow was at 1st level. Without multiple attacks it does more damage than the bow, on average and in the upper limit. As long as crossbow expertise is taken by 5th level (so 4th level) then it will continue to be useful.

[Xetheral]

...there are some charts around somewhere that can give you specific details of when to use [sharpshooter] or not if you really want to search.

Chart is linked in my signature.