Arcane Dilettante feat

[Falcon X]

Situation:
In 3.5, one of my players played a narcissistic Dread Necromancer with a high focus on melee. He liked hitting things, but he also liked pulling out weird spells and doing impressive scary stuff.
Switching to 5th Edition, we started back to level 1 and decided that Paladin of Vengeance fit his personality and style better than anything else.
Problem is that he is now not only just good at hitting things, but it's about all he can do. He misses occasionally pulling out a crazy spell (cares more about impressive flavor than usefulness) and we wanted to see if we could fix that without multiclassing that would lessen his fighting prowess.

Solution: Import in the Arcane Dilettante ability from 3.5's Factotum, with a few changes.
- 5e Feats are pretty strong, so Arcane Dilettante isn't too much more so.
- It limit's it to 7 spell levels, preventing it from usurping full casters.
- Adding in a failure/randomness check will allow for crazy stuff, but also weaken the feat a little.
- Adding that we must have in-game accounted for his learning of the spell allows some DM control.

So, here's the feat so far. Please offer opinions and suggestions:

Feat: Arcane Dilettante - Based on observation and reading, you acquire a vague understanding of magic. You know that with a few weird hand gestures and an array of grunts and bizarre words, you can conjure up something that looks like a spell. You may prepare any arcane spell that you have either spent time observing or read about from a spellbook or spell scroll.

The Arcane Dilettante prepares spells after taking a long rest. The character gets a single spell slot at each spell level, and may prepare a single spell for each spell slot available. Spell slots available increase with character level using the following chart:
Level 3 – Gain Level 1 spell slot
Level 5 – Gain Level 2 spell slot
Level 8 – Gain Level 3 spell slot
Level 10 – Gain Level 4 spell slot
Level 13 – Gain Level 5 spell slot
Level 15 – Gain Level 6 spell slot
Level 18 – Gain Level 7 spell slot

Once you have used a spell, you cannot use it again until you have had a long rest. After resting, you choose new spells and lose any unused spells from the previous day, though you can select the same spell on consecutive days. You cannot prepare the same spell multiple times to use it more than once during the same day. Spell save DCs are 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier.

The Arcane Dilettante’s spellcraft is not well studied or developed, and is often prone to mistakes. When the character attempts to casts a spell, role a 10-sided dice and use the following table for the result:
1 – The spell does nothing
2 – The spell produces a random effect (Use Wild Magic Surge chart, PHB p. 104)
3-6 – The spell produces a close-to-as-intended effect, but is twisted slightly be the character’s mood, alignment, and beliefs. The DM has power over this exact effect.
7-10 – The spell works as-intended.

[Malifice]

Situation:
In 3.5, one of my players played a narcissistic Dread Necromancer with a high focus on melee. He liked hitting things, but he also liked pulling out weird spells and doing impressive scary stuff.
Switching to 5th Edition, we started back to level 1 and decided that Paladin of Vengeance fit his personality and style better than anything else.
Problem is that he is now not only just good at hitting things, but it's about all he can do. He misses occasionally pulling out a crazy spell (cares more about impressive flavor than usefulness) and we wanted to see if we could fix that without multiclassing that would lessen his fighting prowess.

Solution: Import in the Arcane Dilettante ability from 3.5's Factotum, with a few changes.
- 5e Feats are pretty strong, so Arcane Dilettante isn't too much more so.
- It limit's it to 7 spell levels, preventing it from usurping full casters.
- Adding in a failure/randomness check will allow for crazy stuff, but also weaken the feat a little.
- Adding that we must have in-game accounted for his learning of the spell allows some DM control.

So, here's the feat so far. Please offer opinions and suggestions:

Feat is way OP. Limit to 3rd level slots and even then.

Any reason that this cant be achieved in game with a simple multiclass to Wild sorcerer or Warlock?

Sorcerer 12/ Paladin 8 gives you 6th level spells known, and 8th level slots to cast them in. With wild surge and metamagic, it works pretty much as intended above. All casting runs off Charisma, gets extra attack, tons of slots to Smite, charisma to saves etc.

For dread necromancer, maybe consider Oathbreaker paladin for all the necrotic and undead goodness. Ignore the alignment restriction if it bugs you.

[Falcon X]

Is the OP part the flexibility of all-access to everything he's seen?

How about if I give him the Warlock's 5-spell level progression? 15 known, no Cantrips, no mystic arcanum.

Few notes:
- Warlock isn't an option for his character.
- If I limit it to lvl 3 spells, I might as well just add a few domain spells from the cleric list and call it a day. The character wants a little more flexibility.
- I've definitely considered going Oathbreaker and changing the flavor, but it just doesn't give enough. Still, I'll keep it in mind.

[Malifice]

Is the OP part the flexibility of all-access to everything he's seen?

How about if I give him the Warlock's 5-spell level progression, 15 known? No Cantrips, no mystic arcanum.

Few notes:
- Warlock isn't an option for his character.
- If I limit it to lvl 3 spells, I might as well just add a few domain spells from the cleric list and call it a day. The character wants a little more flexibility.
- I've definitely considered going Oathbreaker and changing the flavor, but it just doesn't give enough. Still, I'll keep it in mind.

This isnt about flexibility, its out and out power. You're virtually making a gestalt character here.

Surely a Paladin (Oathbreaker)/ Wild Sorcerer (focused on Necromancy spells) M/C works here?

[Malifice]

Not being a **** here either.

Compare it to the feat that makes you a pseudo spell caster that already exists.

You get an at will cantrip, and a 1st level spell once per day.

If anything, I would consider another feat (with that cantrip/ 1st level spell feat as a prereq) that when taken allows you to learn and cast an additional cantrip and 1st level spell (total of 2 each) and gives you a single second level per long rest.

I dont like feat chains in 5th but, that seems way more balanced.

[jaydubs]

I guess my question would be, what kind of advice are you looking for? Because what the player wants is basically overpowered on its face. Any feat that lets a character throw around multiple mid-to-high level spells "without lessening his fighting prowess" is almost certainly going to be unbalanced. Doubly so if that character gets to pick which spells to learn. Honestly, I'd probably take that feat even if I were playing a full caster, and just cherry pick great spells not on my normal list.

I suppose if I were to try to give a character flashy magic without decreasing martial prowess, but also without unbalancing things, I'd specifically pick a few spells or design a few magical abilities that almost exactly mirrored what would be achievable normally. The end result being a character that wouldn't really have more powerful (or even much more versatile) mechanical capabilities, but would have a flashy and narratively different way of doing things.

Alternatively, give your other players access to different, but equally powerful, specialty feats of their own. But that's obviously an even larger project than you started with.

On a separate note, why isn't warlock an option?

[Falcon X]

No, please be a d***. I wouldn't have asked unless I wanted honesty. But I will debate it so I can understand it better.

I think we are straying away from Sorcerer/Paladin multiclass specifically because we don't want a full caster. We want a Paladin who has a couple flexible arcane slots that he can get sooner.

Powerwise? Giving him a single level 4 spell at 10th level and a single level 7 spell by lvl 18? The output wouldn't come close to the dedicated casters.
Gestalt is a bit extreme. Sorcerer has 22 slots, 6 cantrips, metamagic, and other things. I'm talking about only 5-7 slots here that max at levels 5 or 7.

Feat chains might be an option. It would definitely mean it costs him more to get to what he wants if he had to put in about 3 feats to get there.

[Falcon X]

Compromise:give the same slot level progressions (1-7 Factotum or 1-5 Warlock), but only 1 spell slot total per day, per feat?

[Falcon X]

I guess my question would be, what kind of advice are you looking for? Because what the player wants is basically overpowered on its face. Any feat that lets a character throw around multiple mid-to-high level spells "without lessening his fighting prowess" is almost certainly going to be unbalanced. Doubly so if that character gets to pick which spells to learn. Honestly, I'd probably take that feat even if I were playing a full caster, and just cherry pick great spells not on my normal list.

I suppose if I were to try to give a character flashy magic without decreasing martial prowess, but also without unbalancing things, I'd specifically pick a few spells or design a few magical abilities that almost exactly mirrored what would be achievable normally. The end result being a character that wouldn't really have more powerful (or even much more versatile) mechanical capabilities, but would have a flashy and narratively different way of doing things.

Alternatively, give your other players access to different, but equally powerful, specialty feats of their own. But that's obviously an even larger project than you started with.

On a separate note, why isn't warlock an option?
Eh, you are right. A good thought process is: What If I gave this option to my Sorcerer or Wizard?
- One way or another, limited spell list is the way to go. Possibly give the equivalent of a domain (10 spells total, lvl 5 max, Warlock spell slot progression.)

Warlock is out of the question both because it would go against everything the character stands for, and we already have a warlock on the team.

[Falcon X]

So, this is my current plan:
We do the equivalent of a domain: 10 spells total at lvl 5 max. Warlock spell slot progression.

It still might be a bit much to offer as a general feat to everybody, but in the context of our game, it's a pretty minor boost.

Eh?

[silveralen]

It's still far too powerful by any standard I can conceive. I don't really know what to say beyond that. If you are sure it won't be an issue for your campaign you can go for it, but nothing you suggest along these lines is going to actually be balanced. At all. One lvl one spell whose effect scaled to fifth lvl would be pretty questionable, what you have there is still a bit overboard.

If he just wants arcane spells, tinker with his spell list, possibly strip some vegance spells and replace them. Plenty of flashy impressive spells there.

Honestly, I'm tempted to say he is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. There are more fitting classes for what he wants than paladin (valor bard and blade pact warlock come to mind). I think enjoying the class for what it is, rather than focusing on how it isn't the same as an older character, might be the best solution.

[Callin]

You are really trying to shoehorn in something that does not work in 5th. Why is multiclassing not something he wants to look at? Heck just 3 levels of any caster other than warlock and he has his versitality. His spellslots go up 3 cl. His 1st and 2nd lvl spells can be cast in any slot he has access. If you pick ones that dont have a save or attack you dont even need the casting stat!

Or how about the ritual caster feat? Because honestly your feat almost invalidates the Warlock class to me.

[jaydubs]

When homebrewing, it's important to figure out what exactly your goals are before trying to craft a solution. What exactly is your player wanting? Is it more power? More flash? More versatility? Does he just wish he was playing a melee full caster, like he was before?

What exactly do you want to give your player? Are you looking to give him a straight boost to power or versatility? If so, how much of a boost?

Because it sounds to me like your player wants to play a powerful melee character, who's also a powerful caster. And you want to give that to him. But, that desire is bumping up against the desire to keep things balanced. Unfortunately, they're basically at odds with one another.

So figure out the minimum power/versatility boost that will make you and your player satisfied. I suggest you supplement that with lots of flash and cool lore, to make the buff seem larger than it is.

In terms of your suggestion, adding a warlock's spell slots and list is a very big boost in terms of both power and versatility. If that's what you're going for, alright. You're the DM, and it's within your purview to hand out those kinds of prizes. Just be aware of the extra capabilities granted with 4 level 5 spell slots (where a warlock tops out) with a few careful choices.

Counterspell, Armor of Agathys, Fly, Invisibility, Dimension Door, Mirror Image, and pick 4 others. You've already significantly increase utility, escape abilities, survivability, and added the ability to seriously shut down enemy casters. There's probably better choices even (I've never played a warlock).

Some suggestions:

-Consider refluffing a different class or multiclass first. There are several that are already melee-capable arcane casters. Eldritch knight and valor bard, for instance.
-Before increasing power with homebrew, perform some basic optimization on the character build.
-If you're looking to increase versatility but not power as much, feed the new abilities off a limited resource he's already using. Like, have the new spells burn the same slots as the old spells, and limit it to X times per day.
-Consider hand-picking the new spells, specifically finding ones that will be useful but not too useful.
-Consider homebrewing part of the class instead of just adding a homebrew feat. Completely remove a class feature he doesn't particularly like, and replace one more in theme with the character (but of similar mechanical power).

[Ohnoeszz]

The death circle cleric in the DMG seems to be exactly what he wants. It's a powerful caster/melee character that can use its channel divinity to make his attacks more powerful - similar to the smites.

IMO you should use that class and re-fluff as needed.

[CrusaderJoe]

Why not allow him to have his character be a Fighter (Eldritch Knight) but takes Conjuration/Necromancy spells from either the Cleric and/or Wizard list?

Boom, dread necromancer with some awesome spells.

You could even say his casting stat is changed to Cha.

I would totally play that. Sadly he doesn't get the evil aura but then again you could multiclass or just make a spell that gives him auras... It will be easier to homebrew a spell or two than a massive feat.

[Malifice]

OP, I guess what were saying is that there are ways to recreate the same fluff within the rules as written already.

[Falcon X]

When homebrewing, it's important to figure out what exactly your goals are before trying to craft a solution. What exactly is your player wanting? Is it more power? More flash? More versatility? Does he just wish he was playing a melee full caster, like he was before?

What exactly do you want to give your player? Are you looking to give him a straight boost to power or versatility? If so, how much of a boost?

Because it sounds to me like your player wants to play a powerful melee character, who's also a powerful caster. And you want to give that to him. But, that desire is bumping up against the desire to keep things balanced. Unfortunately, they're basically at odds with one another.

So figure out the minimum power/versatility boost that will make you and your player satisfied. I suggest you supplement that with lots of flash and cool lore, to make the buff seem larger than it is.

In terms of your suggestion, adding a warlock's spell slots and list is a very big boost in terms of both power and versatility. If that's what you're going for, alright. You're the DM, and it's within your purview to hand out those kinds of prizes. Just be aware of the extra capabilities granted with 4 level 5 spell slots (where a warlock tops out) with a few careful choices.

Counterspell, Armor of Agathys, Fly, Invisibility, Dimension Door, Mirror Image, and pick 4 others. You've already significantly increase utility, escape abilities, survivability, and added the ability to seriously shut down enemy casters. There's probably better choices even (I've never played a warlock).

Some suggestions:

-Consider refluffing a different class or multiclass first. There are several that are already melee-capable arcane casters. Eldritch knight and valor bard, for instance.
-Before increasing power with homebrew, perform some basic optimization on the character build.
-If you're looking to increase versatility but not power as much, feed the new abilities off a limited resource he's already using. Like, have the new spells burn the same slots as the old spells, and limit it to X times per day.
-Consider hand-picking the new spells, specifically finding ones that will be useful but not too useful.
-Consider homebrewing part of the class instead of just adding a homebrew feat. Completely remove a class feature he doesn't particularly like, and replace one more in theme with the character (but of similar mechanical power).

Specifically what we want is: A paladin with flair. We have NO desire to make him a powerful caster. He is a paladin. His job is melee. These spells are only there to make him look more impressive than he actually is. Honestly, summon a zombie or two, cast a few debuffs and the guy is happy.
My goal is to get him a few decent (read: spell slot 3, maybe 4) necromancy spells before level 10.

I like a lot of your ideas. And I'll think on them.

Okay, how about I just sub out his Vengeance spells with Death Domain spells. Then give him 4 total extra bonus slots only for the domain spells.
It will be an extra slot levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 slots at levels 4, 6, 8, and 10 (respectively).
Sure, it's a feat for 4 extra spell slots a little earlier than natural progression, more than a feat is worth, but how could it possibly be stepping on anyone elses toes unless we are running with a necromancer (which we aren't)?

[Falcon X]

One reason I keep ignoring everyone's suggestions for Sorcerers and Clerics is because we have no desire for anything resembling the feel or power of a full caster.

I'm only paying attention to suggestions for quick dips, or partial progression classes (Eldritch knight, etc.) Anything more and the player is going to say: "Why do I have all these spells? I'm not a caster."

[CrusaderJoe]

One reason I keep ignoring everyone's suggestions for Sorcerers and Clerics is because we have no desire for anything resembling the feel or power of a full caster.

I'm only paying attention to suggestions for quick dips, or partial progression classes (Eldritch knight, etc.) Anything more and the player is going to say: "Why do I have all these spells? I'm not a caster."

Well that's kinda rude. Dread Necromancers were full casters with limited spells known... Asking for help then straight up ignoring people (and saying as such) when they base their responses on Dread Necromancer isn't cool bro.

[Falcon X]

Well that's kinda rude. Dread Necromancers were full casters with limited spells known... Asking for help then straight up ignoring people (and saying as such) when they base their responses on Dread Necromancer isn't cool bro.

Oi, sorry if I sound argumentative, guys. It's just how I draw out more info. You have all given some great stuff and already answered my original question (Talked me down from a monstrous feat into one that's just a little stretch).

I also should have probably not posted that he was originally a Dread Necromancer. It was misleading about the new direction we were taking the character.

[Sidmen]

Reading your updated desires, my suggestion:

Give him a wand with a few cool powers in it, refluff the wand into some other shape - a glove made from the finger bones of a skeleton maybe.

No need to play around with adding class features when what you want to do can be handled nicely with already existing game objects.

[Noldo]

If the player really wants to be a paladin, some tweaking of paladin should be fine way to do the trick. Starting with a new set of Oath Spells (to include necessary spells to get the zombies and some debuffs).

I would make additional casting power either run on channel divinity (i.e. per short rest) or replace the ordinary channeling power, unless you and your campaign is cool with straight up power boost the additional spell slots would represent.

[Flashy]

Warlock is out of the question because it would go against everything the character stands for.

Why? A pretty minor fiend patron refluff gets you a character who's compelled by the power of good. Swap out a couple of the additional spells, and mildly alter some of the fluff and you've got a character who is literally possessed by angelic fury.

For example...

The Archangel
You have sworn the oath eternal to a powerful being of pure good, giving up your very soul as the vessel of a divine, compelling power.

Dark One's Blessing -> Armored in Faith
No other changes required

Dark One's Own Luck -> Hand of Divine Fate
No other changes required

Fiendish Resistance -> Angelic Resistance
No other changes required

Hurl Through Hell -> Devastating Tribunal
...You can use this feature to instantly transport the target to the higher planes. The creature appears in a court of divine judgement, where the creature is subject to the overwhelming verdict of a tribunal of vengeful archangels. At the end of your next turn, the target returns to the space it previously occupied, or the nearest unoccupied space. If the target is not a celestial, it takes 10d10 psychic damage as it reels from its unworldy experience.

Archangel expanded spells:

1st: Burning hands, Command
2nd: Blindness/Deafness, Spiritual Weapon
3rd: Animate Dead, Magic Circle
4th: Fire Shield, Wall of Fire
5th: Raise Dead, Hallow


we already have a warlock on the team.
This is more of a problem, especially if your party is set on no redundancy of any kind.

[silveralen]

Reading your updated desires, my suggestion:

Give him a wand with a few cool powers in it, refluff the wand into some other shape - a glove made from the finger bones of a skeleton maybe.

No need to play around with adding class features when what you want to do can be handled nicely with already existing game objects.

This is probably the best solution. If it is a magic item, at least there is a reason you can remove it alter (if disruptive). Just give other player some reasonable items at the same time.

[Kryx]

Okay, how about I just sub out his Vengeance spells with Death Domain spells. Then give him 4 total extra bonus slots only for the domain spells.

Subbing is fine. Adding extra spell slots ignores 5e's purposeful design of everyone having the same number of spell slots. Don't do this unless every caster has the same (which I would also recommend against).
What you suggested is a pure pure move, not more flashy.

Honestly I think you need to understand 5e a lot better before you make changes. It seems your grasp of the system is a bit limited.

I'd go with straight substitution with no power increase or the magic item.

[kaoskonfety]

While I agree with the general thrust of the detractors of the feat (it is somewhat -to- very over powered) if pulling off these stunts are how he wants to define his character then we shall try to accommodate...

My several cents...

Somewhere between Ritual caster (limited access to 5th level magic, very limited list, no combat use, some of it quite powerful however) and Magic Initiate (a 1st level spell (not a slot) and 2 cantrips - possible combat use but not so much BOOM).

Honestly the biggest issue I I'm seeing as a DM is the line "You may prepare any arcane spell that you have either spent time observing or read about from a spellbook or spell scroll." This level of versatility and ANY level of power gets sticky fast and you are opening a large can of issues.

The proposed feat blows ritual caster out of the water, and this is the closest feat I can see to what you want. Ritual caster requires a spell book, has a VERY limited spell list and none of it can be used (directly) in a fight.

Player wants: occasional horrifying combat options in addition to being melee/Paladin and refuses the multiclass idea
You want (I assume): to keep everyone mostly on the same playing field (this said I have zero problem with PC's at drastically differing power levels, but it is typically more work on the DM side)

You seem set on 5th to 7th level spell access and a couple options per long rest? - I'd limit it to 5th myself (as this is about there ritual caster caps out.)
1 or 2 spell memorization slots, one of up to "lower level", one of up to "higher level" if you go with 2, using the old wizard model of use it an lose it - require a book with strict reigns on what these can be ie. single class and school and cast time and duration (ie. wizard list and necromancy - nothing with a duration above instant or a cast time over one action **EDIT** on review this may be too much restriction... but tone it back till the list is "small but usable" with an option or 2 at most spell levels**) - this with your "it went haywire/wrong" die roll might work for people looking at play balance. 20%-50%ish chance to blow your action, and lose the "I heard of it and can cast it" part - you need to sit down and research or learn it from a primary source. If it turns out this isn't wrecking the world reduce or remove the failure either in general or on lower level spells (say 10% chance of "oh oh" on spells for each level over 1st, 2nd or 3rd, at your taste)

probably added caveats such as "These spells are not on your spell list (unless you have also acquired them by other means) and can only be used with this feat, spells are cast at their base level even is prepared to the highest level option, they are not "spell slots" in the standard intent this phrase is used and do not interact with Class features etc. as such" - basically the feat sits in a vacuum apart from the rest of your class features and the spells are as written with no extra juice.

[Myzz]

OP - the giving extra spell slots is the overpowering part... Currently the ONLY way to get extra spell slots is to dip warlock... (or magic initiate).

every caster in the game would take a feat that gives them access to more spell slots especially that go to level 7 spell slots...

best options =
1. magic item that gives him daily spells (not slots that he can scale up)
2. chaining Magic Initiate Feats... Magic Expert... Magic Master... and then open them up to everyone (cause your casters will want them).
3. Gestalt everyone! Which I think is the only way to balance what your party... just realize you have to gestalt monsters too, and should be quite fun but quite overpowered... but at that point everyone is not just one guy.

[Celcey]

I'd say just refluffing a couple of things from Death Domain Cleric, like swapping a couple of spells known out for ones that better fit the character.

[mephnick]

This is why you should forget about 3.5 when you choose to move to 5e.

[CrusaderJoe]

This is why you should forget about 3.5 when you choose to move to 5e.

Well you don't have to forget entirely but realize that this is a new system and not everything is the same.

This was a huge issue for people playing 4e at first. They tried to play each class the same way they played in 3e and it just doesn't work that way.

Take a concept and look over the stuff and then make your character. Might be easier and some might be harder but go in with a clean slate and you should do just fine.

[Rawrawrawr]

So, it sounds like your friend wants to play a primarily melee character that can occasionally pull out the flashy spells when need be? (Correct me if I'm wrong). Honestly, if that's the case, it really sounds like he wants to play an Eldritch Knight.

The Eldritch Knight is a Fighter, so obviously it's designed primarily for melee. It can also learn Evocation spells from the Wizard spell list, which are pretty much the flashiest you can possibly get. It also gets Action Surge, which can let you cast two spells in one round - one great ball of fire ain't flashy enough? Have two!

Another option is the Elemental Monk - it's not quite not a 'normal' fighting character like a Fighter or a Paladin, but it's still a pretty decent melee character. The ability to give yourself boosts to mobility and stun with your attacks means you're pretty good at the "Hunt and Kill" playstyle the Paladin of Vengeance encourages, and of course your elemental powers mean you can do the flashy-blasty stuff when need be. The main problem is that Elemental Monks will burn through their Ki like no other, so you need to make sure your players get short rests fairly often.

Those are my mechanical suggestions. Is there any specific fluff reason your player wants to play a Paladin? Because their main fluff is "I'm, like, really devoted to a cause, guys. Like, so devoted, you have no idea," but really any character can choose to be devoted to a cause.

[Louro]

Is he a paladin?
You can do whatever you want, without messing too much.

Paladin serve Gods.
Gods are like raw power.
Which God does he serve? Trickery? Magic? Dead?
If he proves to be a worthy paladin, his God might be tempted to handle him some toys. Give him a Sacred/divine mace with some spell power, this way your player can get access to their funny fluffy tricks while the whole thing is still under your absolute control (remember you, as DM, are the one who plays he gods).

You can adapt/update the mace power to fit in the campaign, or delete it if the player goes nuts.
Now let your player work, story, motivation, personality and tell him he starts as pally and eventually you will figure out how to fit his character concept.

Edit: obviously, such toy requires the paladin to be absolutely linked to the god cause.

[jaydubs]

Specifically what we want is: A paladin with flair. We have NO desire to make him a powerful caster. He is a paladin. His job is melee. These spells are only there to make him look more impressive than he actually is. Honestly, summon a zombie or two, cast a few debuffs and the guy is happy.
My goal is to get him a few decent (read: spell slot 3, maybe 4) necromancy spells before level 10.

I like a lot of your ideas. And I'll think on them.

Okay, how about I just sub out his Vengeance spells with Death Domain spells. Then give him 4 total extra bonus slots only for the domain spells.
It will be an extra slot levels 1, 2, 3, and 4 slots at levels 4, 6, 8, and 10 (respectively).
Sure, it's a feat for 4 extra spell slots a little earlier than natural progression, more than a feat is worth, but how could it possibly be stepping on anyone elses toes unless we are running with a necromancer (which we aren't)?

I think we're quibbling with definitions. When I say the feat is too powerful, I mean it's more powerful than the other feats and could contribute toward a character that is too powerful, so I would never allow it in a game I run. But that doesn't mean putting it on a specific character is likely to break a specific campaign (or necessarily even unbalance players between each other, depending on where they started relative to each other).

You obviously have a different DMing philosophy than I do, and that's okay. If I were you, I'd limit myself to the following questions:

1. Will it unbalance your campaign?
2. Will it upset your other players or appear as giving special treatment? (This can happen even if something isn't actually unbalancing.)
3. Will it make DMing harder?

If the answers are no, no, and no, then it's a reasonable choice to allow the feat you described. But do it with clear understanding. You're giving him a feat that will change the flavor of the class, and increase it's power level (giving extra spell slots). But you're doing it with the judgment that any change in balance will either not be harmful, or will be worth it for your player having a better time.

Again, part of this is just a difference in philosophy. You're concerned about whether it will step on anyone's toes. If it won't, that's good enough. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that perspective. For myself (and from what I can tell some of the other posters), we simply ask - is the feat balanced against other feats? No - and that's enough to reject it in and of itself.

To give an example of what my response would be to the same situation, I'd either:
a) Help him build a non-homebrew character that meets his desires, mostly by vastly refluffing the already existing characters. Or
b) Swap out a few spells (possibly from an oath list) for necromancy spells (I'm not familiar enough with all of them to give an example list of substitutes). No feat expenditure required, and no extra spell levels. Flavor changed, no change in power if I can pick a balanced spell list (possibly difficult).

[Pechvarry]

I don't really wanna stumble into a minefield on a forum I don't really post on much but uh... I kinda want to point out that OP's suggested feat, compared to Mage Initiate... well, cantrips are arguably better than "real" spell slots. A level 11 melee with a 3d10 at-will ranged attack? The thousand uses of prestidigitation? Starting every fight with Guidance spent on your initiative or a round-1 attempt to knock someone prone? Mage initiate is incredibly powerful precisely because it's at-will, scaling power.

I mean, I still think 7 extra spells is too powerful, but I don't think the blanket shut-out response you're getting is called for. So maybe something like: Once per long rest, cast a spell from the Death Domain whose level you double, to a max spell level of 2. Starting at character level 10, you get another slot, with a max spell level of 5 (observe previous doubling rule, of course).

Honestly, for a melee, none of that would terrify me to have in my game except for the free Vampiric Touch every day.

That said, the reflavored wand is actually a really elegant solution.

[Flashy]

I mean, I still think 7 extra spells is too powerful, but I don't think the blanket shut-out response you're getting is called for. So maybe something like: Once per long rest, cast a spell from the Death Domain whose level you double, to a max spell level of 2. Starting at character level 10, you get another slot, with a max spell level of 5 (observe previous doubling rule, of course).

Honestly, for a melee, none of that would terrify me to have in my game except for the free Vampiric Touch every day.

I actually think this is a really excellent feat suggestion.

[Iolo Morganwg]

If the player really wants to be a paladin, some tweaking of paladin should be fine way to do the trick. Starting with a new set of Oath Spells (to include necessary spells to get the zombies and some debuffs)...


This is essentially what I would suggest. You could re-write the base paladin spell list, re-write the Oath of Vengeance oath spell list, or some combo of those two.

[Malifice]

One reason I keep ignoring everyone's suggestions for Sorcerers and Clerics is because we have no desire for anything resembling the feel or power of a full caster.

Six levels of Sorcerer and 14 of Paladin doesnt make him a 'full caster'

It slightly improves his Paladin casting abilities, grants metamagic and allows him to prepare 3rd level arcane spells in his paladin slots

[Malifice]

I don't really wanna stumble into a minefield on a forum I don't really post on much but uh... I kinda want to point out that OP's suggested feat, compared to Mage Initiate... well, cantrips are arguably better than "real" spell slots. A level 11 melee with a 3d10 at-will ranged attack? .

Running off Charisma to hit. So generally not the best option.And only 16.5 DPR.

The Fighter shrugs, pulls out his bow and deals 1d8+3, firing 3 arrows per round (3d8+9) at +7, critting on a 19-20. And thats just a Champion fighter with a Dex of 16 and no archery style or marksman feat and a non magic bow. 22.5 DPR (not including crits)

The Ranger shrugs and fires his Longbow dealing 1d8+1d6+3, firing 2 arrows per round, adding a further d8 for Colossus slayer. 25 DPR.

Become a specialized archer with archery style (for +2 to hit) and/or the Marksman feat and it gets considerably better.

Far from being OP, the scaling of cantrip damage just keeps them nearly on par with the damage of an un-optimized martial character with a bow.

And it costs a feat to do. A feat that could be spent on the marksman feat instead.

[Doug Lampert]

One reason I keep ignoring everyone's suggestions for Sorcerers and Clerics is because we have no desire for anything resembling the feel or power of a full caster.

I'm only paying attention to suggestions for quick dips, or partial progression classes (Eldritch knight, etc.) Anything more and the player is going to say: "Why do I have all these spells? I'm not a caster."

Let the feat give him access to a single spell slot of one fourth his level (round all fractions up, so levels 1-3 it's a level 1 slot and levels 17-20 its a level 5 slot), and let the feat also add a single spell to his list of each level from 1 to 5.

A paladin gets casting, the main problem in your case would seem to be that its the wrong casting. Giving some different spells as a paladin would seem to fix most of his problem, and then one extra higher level slot lets him do "flashy" without being better than the full casters.

[pibby]

I'm in agreement with fixing this problem with magic items.

Scrolls and wands that are refluffed or manifest as other accessories like rings and necklaces. If you want the magic item to work for only one person in the party, then just have the flavor be that it only works for people of his specific kind and that person doesn't have to make an Arcane (Intelligence) roll to use the item whether or not the spell is on his spell list.