How do you use Expeditious Retreat?

[Alent]

I'm curious, how does everyone here use or see Expeditious Retreat? And if you use it for purposes other than retreat, when and how often?

(And if you know of an FAQ with advice on the subject, could you pass along the link?)

[Xerlith]

I'm curious, how does everyone here use or see Expeditious Retreat? And if you use it for purposes other than retreat, when and how often?

(And if you know of an FAQ with advice on the subject, could you pass along the link?)

Swift expeditious retreat in a wand, in a wand chamber. It's a great enabler for a charger bardsader, for instance. Or anybody who needs to charge a long distance.
The normal one... Well, for any mobile character really. It's no Haste, but it still gives you mobility. And mobility is king when you're a melee character.

[Alent]

Swift expeditious retreat in a wand, in a wand chamber. It's a great enabler for a charger bardsader, for instance. Or anybody who needs to charge a long distance.
The normal one... Well, for any mobile character really. It's no Haste, but it still gives you mobility. And mobility is king when you're a melee character.

Do you find it to be a "cat's out of the bag" thing, where using it encourages other people to use it where it becomes the baseline for the battle?

I'm really curious how it affects everyone's tables.

[Xerlith]

It's a low-level only spell, basically (later you get Haste which is in every way better) so it's mostly an oh-**** button.

[ericgrau]

Swift expeditious retreat in a wand, in a wand chamber. It's a great enabler for a charger bardsader, for instance. Or anybody who needs to charge a long distance.
The normal one... Well, for any mobile character really. It's no Haste, but it still gives you mobility. And mobility is king when you're a melee character.
Ya good point it would make a cheap potion for non-casters. For fleeing and for pursuit. Parties aren't often well organized but if they are I could see a strafing or hit and run squad greatly exploiting a cheap set of 4 expeditious retreat potions. Blitz, focus kill one, leave, heal, repeat.

Swift expeditious retreat is far better even at level 2 because you can still withdraw during the same turn. Or to get closer from a large distance and then use your standard on something. Or to cast at range and then move back to farther range so that foes can't catch up to you. Yeah nearly all the swift and immediate spells in spell compendium have a bit of power creep in them, bringing in an extra action where before there was nothing until level 9-11.

[Curmudgeon]

A Cleric with the Celerity domain and Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) can get +40' to their base speed with Expeditious Retreat, all day long.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm curious, how does everyone here use or see Expeditious Retreat?

I used it as Expeditious Advance on gish characters, because the spell effectively negates difficult terrain, as well as gives a huge bonus to jump checks. Until your character gets reliable flight, this is very useful in certain combat locations.

[Curmudgeon]

I used it as Expeditious Advance on gish characters, because the spell effectively negates difficult terrain ...
It doesn't actually do that. Having a greater speed will help offset the double movement cost of difficult terrain, but Expeditious Retreat won't let you Charge over difficult terrain.

[Kurald Galain]

Having a greater speed will help offset the double movement cost of difficult terrain,

Yes, that's the point.

You can do a move+attack far more often than a charge; so it's not a problem that Ex Retreat enables the former on difficult battlefields without enabling the latter.

[ericgrau]

I'll add one way to not use expeditious retreat. Don't use it to chase. Falls under don't split the party. I learned that the hard way.

[Andreaz]

I use it for just aobut everything. It's a standard getaway resource, especially once you can quicken it. But my best uses of it tend to be offensive.

Take for example one day we(3rd level group) were carrying critical intel, an encrypted message, to our contractors. It was a long trip and once we thought we had a good lead on the persecutors we stopped to rest (we did not know at the time... our main threat then had a good scryer). Halfway into the night a platoon attacked. We were on the second floor of an inn and they surrounded us. Not wanting to be surrounded, we gathered by the hallway to stop them at the stairs, and held our ground for a while. But we committed the grave mistake of not watching over the message. A pair of enemies snuck in through the windows, stole it and fled. My wizard noticed and shouted a warning. He jumped the window (<3 acrobatics) and casted expeditious retreat. The enemy's 3 rounds of running advantage was quickly overwhelmed. I caught up, Hideous Laughtered him, grabbed the scroll and fled for the woods.
The rest of the party survived, mopped up the attackers and received an animal messenger(<3 UMD) the next day with instructions to meet up.

[Riculf]

At 1 minute/level it's a good one for any combat. I've not seen it be a game-breaker but you never know. The games I play in are definitely not OP.

[Seharvepernfan]

For me, it's a pre-battle spell to increase mobility and positioning. It's also a great way to boost jump checks. It is good for escaping battles, though.

[Chronos]

The way I see it, if you want to retreat, it's the first round that's the critical one. If combat is going so poorly that you want to retreat, then you probably don't want to give the enemy even one round of hitting you. And casting Expeditious Retreat won't change how far you can flee in the first round: You can cast Expeditious Retreat and move 60', or you can withdraw and move 60'. Except the first option also exposes you to two attacks of opportunity, one for casting the spell and one for leaving a threatened space. Or, potentially, you could reduce that to only one attack of opportunity, and move 120', by taking the Run action.

Swift Expeditious Retreat, meanwhile, would let you cast it and then also Withdraw or Run. You won't get any speed boost after that, but you'll get enough of a head start that you probably won't need it.

[Psyren]

Do you find it to be a "cat's out of the bag" thing, where using it encourages other people to use it where it becomes the baseline for the battle?

I'm really curious how it affects everyone's tables.

If the more powerful Haste is an expected baseline, why not this spell* too? I'm not seeing an issue here.

*Not at the same time obviously, since they don't stack

[Kurald Galain]

And casting Expeditious Retreat won't change how far you can flee in the first round: You can cast Expeditious Retreat and move 60', or you can withdraw and move 60'. Except the first option also exposes you to two attacks of opportunity,

You don't usually start combat adjacent to an enemy, though.

[nedz]

My Gnome Sorcerer found it an invaluable spell for negating the disadvantage of his little legs.

Normally though it's a low level Get-out.

It did save my level 1 Beguilers life when she was on a sinking ship: Only had to make one balance check to get on deck (which was important since it wasn't likely she'd be able to make the check twice) and then +12 on the Jump check to make it onto the raft.

The swift version has it's uses but if I need the speed boost then one round is rarely enough — so you better have lots of spare spell slots if you are going to rely on this.

[Alent]

If the more powerful Haste is an expected baseline, why not this spell* too? I'm not seeing an issue here.

*Not at the same time obviously, since they don't stack

And this makes it go click. I knew it wasn't a problem, I was just wondering why. My table has been ignorant to the runspeed from haste since before I joined, and I never noticed it myself. Gahhh. :smallsigh:

Still curious to know how many people use it as "Expeditious advance", and other interesting use cases. (I am kind of fishing for encounter ideas, too)

[nedz]

And this makes it go click. I knew it wasn't a problem, I was just wondering why. My table has been ignorant to the runspeed from haste since before I joined, and I never noticed it myself. Gahhh. :smallsigh:

Still curious to know how many people use it as "Expeditious advance", and other interesting use cases. (I am kind of fishing for encounter ideas, too)

I have seen Haste used like that, the trouble is that the duration is very short — it's more of a combat spell. Fly is the usual upgrade from expeditious retreat — 60' and it ignores terrain.

It probably depends upon how common chase scenes are in your game.

[Psyren]

I have seen Haste used like that, the trouble is that the duration is very short — it's more of a combat spell. Fly is the usual upgrade from expeditious retreat — 60' and it ignores terrain.

It probably depends upon how common chase scenes are in your game.

Of course it's a combat spell - if you're not in a fight, that's what story-based travel is for, things like steeds, carriages, wagons, or even the simple expedient of "later that afternoon, you all arrive at the cave..."

[nedz]

Of course it's a combat spell - if you're not in a fight, that's what story-based travel is for, things like steeds, carriages, wagons, or even the simple expedient of "later that afternoon, you all arrive at the cave..."

Well Fly is a combat spell too — it's just a little more useful in a pursuit, and the same level. I actually dislike story based chase scenes — it ruins the suspense.

[The Random NPC]

I had a character use it to run past some arrow slits in a deathroom, then I used it to cross the bridge on the other side of which were about 15 orcs firing ballistas at us.

casted

FYI the past tense of cast is cast.

[Chronos]

You might not start combat adjacent to enemies, but then, you might not realize you need to flee at the start of combat, either. After all, most encounters, you don't run away from.

[Riculf]

I frequently use Expeditious Retreat as a combat advance spell. There aren't many situations where I'd not want an EXTRA 30' of movement up to double your original movement). It runs for 10 rounds, and at no point, specifies that you have to "retreat" at all. :smallbiggrin:

[Nalmn the Bard]

I have a grappling fighter(EK)/monk who with longstrider, monk +10 move and the mobile feat I have a 60 base move. With Expiditious Retreat I was able to run 120 feet in as a bonus action, knock a guy prone and grab him before I take my normal move halved for dragging him 30'. But wasn't done. Then action surged to pull him an extra 60' all on a surprise round. Pulled him out the last 30 and pounded on him before he had an action.

[nedz]

Or for ... Thread Necromancy

[Thurbane]

A Cleric with the Celerity domain and Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) can get +40' to their base speed with Expeditious Retreat, all day long.

If you throw on a level of Paragnostic Apostle, you could make that + 50'.

[DarkSoul]

I usually use it combined with ~12k gold to make a pair of continuously-activated magic boots. Beyond that, it's definitely for combat mobility.

[Haruki-kun]

The Winged Mod: Thread Necromancy.