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Xanchairothoss
2015-01-20, 05:24 AM
Not sure where to put this, so I apologize if this is the incorrect sub-forum.

I had some issues with the Ranger, namely, I felt it wasn't doing what it wanted to do per expressing its themes mechanically. I believe the class in the PHB is a pretty good third-draft, but is crying for a fourth. I junked the class itself and squeezed it into fighter. Hoping to playtest the results and thought I'd share the new splat.

EDIT: Draft two, likely final. I was originally planning on keeping the first draft up, but after posting the second draft and still getting comments that pertained to the first draft I thought it'd be more beneficial to edit this comment, instead.

Martial Archetype: Ranger
Skills
At 3rd level, choose one from Investigation, Nature, or Stealth, you gain proficiency in that skill.

Spellcasting
By the time you reach 3rd level, you have learned to use the magical essence of nature to cast spells, much as a druid does. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the ranger spell list.
Preparing and Casting Spells
The Ranger table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells. To cast one of your ranger spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of ranger spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the ranger spell list. When you do so, choose a number of ranger spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + half your ranger level, rounded down (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
For example, if you are a 5th-level ranger, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With a Wisdom of 14, your list o f prepared spells can include four spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination. If you prepare the 1st-level spell animal friendship, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of ranger spells requires time spent in prayer and meditation: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.
Spellcasting Ability
Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your ranger spells, since your magic draws on your attunement to nature. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a ranger spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

See the Ranger table p. 90 PHB for Spell Slots per Level, ignoring Spells Known.

Favored Enemy
Beginning at 3rd level, you have gained significant experience studying, tracking, hunting, and even talking to certain types of enemies.
Choose one type of favored enemy: aberrations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undead.
You gain the following benefits in relation to your favored enemy:
• You learn one language that is spoken by your favored enemy, if they speak one at all.
• You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your favored enemy, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.
• Once on each of your turns when you make a weapon attack, you can make another attack with the same weapon against a different creature that is within 5 feet of the original target and within range of your weapon so long as it is a favored enemy.
• When a favored enemy within 5 feet of you hits or misses you with an attack, you can use your reaction to attack that favored enemy immediately after its attack, provided that you can see the creature.
• Your tenacity can wear down the most potent foes. Whenever you hit a creature belonging to your favored enemy type with a weapon attack, the creature takes an extra 1d8 damage.

You choose one additional favored enemy, as well as one associated language, at 7th and 15th level, and two at 18th level. As you gain levels, your choices should reflect the types of monsters you have encountered on your adventures.

At 7th level, you gain the following additional benefits in relation to your favored enemies:
• You have advantage on saving throws against being frightened by your favored enemies.
• Opportunity attacks against you from favored enemies are made with disadvantage.
• When a favored enemy creature hits or misses you with an attack, you gain a +4 bonus to AC against all subsequent attacks made by that creature for the rest of the turn.

At 15th level, you gain the following additional benefits in relation to your favored enemies:
• When a favored enemy attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you.
• When a favored enemy creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.

At 18th level, you gain the following additional benefits in relation to your favored enemies:
• You gain preternatural senses that help you fight favored enemy creatures you can’t see. When you attack a favored enemy you can’t see, your inability to see it doesn’t impose disadvantage on your attack rolls against it.
• You are aware of the location of any invisible favored enemy creature within 30 feet of you, provided that the creature isn’t hidden from you and you aren’t blinded or deafened.
• You become an unparalleled hunter of your enemies. You add your Wisdom modifier to attack and damage rolls you make against your favored enemies.

Natural Explorer
At 7th level, you learn how to familiarize yourself with the type of environment you find yourself within and become adept at traveling and surviving in that region.
After traveling for an hour or more in a region, you gain the following benefits:
• When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to the environment you’re in, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in.
• Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
• Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.
• Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
• If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
• When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
• While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.
• You can use your action and expend one ranger spell slot to focus your awareness on the region around you. For 1 minute per level of the spell slot you expend, you can sense whether the following types of creatures are present within 6 miles of you: aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead. This feature doesn’t reveal the creatures’ location or number.
• Moving through nonmagical difficult terrain costs you no extra movement. You can also pass through nonmagical plants without being slowed by them and without taking damage from them if they have thorns, spines, or a similar hazard.
• You have advantage on saving throws against plants that are magically created or manipulated to impede movement, such those created by the entangle spell.

As you gain levels you gain additional benefits after familiarizing yourself with your environment:
• At 10th level, you can spend 1 minute creating camouflage for yourself. You must have access to fresh mud, dirt, plants, soot, and other naturally occurring materials with which to create your camouflage.
Once you are camouflaged in this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface, such as a tree or wall, that is at least as tall and wide as you are. You gain a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks as long as you remain there without moving or taking actions. Once you move or take an action or a reaction, you must camouflage yourself again to gain this benefit.
• At 15th level, you can use the Hide action as a bonus action on your turn. Also, you can’t be tracked by nonmagical means, unless you choose to leave a trail.

Ranger’s Companion
Also at 7th level, you learn the find familiar spell and can cast it as a ritual. The spell doesn’t count against your number of spells known.
When you cast the spell, you gain a beast companion that accompanies you on your adventures and is capable of fighting alongside you. Choose a beast that is native to the type of environment selected for your favored terrain. The beast can be no larger than Medium and must have a challenge rating of 1/4 or lower. In addition to the abilities gained through the find familiar spell, add your proficiency bonus to the beast’s AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in. Its hit point maximum equals its normal maximum or four times your fighter level, whichever is higher. Whenever you take the Attack action, in exchange for one of your Extra Attacks, you can allow your companion to make one attack of its own. At 10th level, whenever you use your Extra Attack to allow your beast companion to attack, your companion makes two attacks on your Attack action.
While traveling through your favored terrain with only your beast, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
At 15th level, when you cast a spell targeting yourself, you can also affect your beast companion with the spell if the beast is within 30 feet of you.

Evasion
At 10th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a lightning bolt spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Multiattack
At 11th and 20th level, you may exchange gaining an Extra Attack for one of the following features of your choice:
Volley. You can use your action to make a ranged attack against any number of creatures within 10 feet of a point you can see within your weapon’s range. You must have ammunition for each target, as normal, and you make a separate attack roll for each target.
Whirlwind Attack. You can use your action to make a melee attack against any number of creatures within 5 feet of you, with a separate attack roll for each target.

Mechaviking
2015-01-20, 07:29 AM
This definetly doesn´t belong here(there´s a homebrew section somewhere ;D).

This is pretty crazy, slightly too good for an archetype, but pretty great for a stand alone ranger.

I especially like the way you worded animal companion and the hunter ranger features I think those are awesome :D

I would totally play this in my current Camaign(Battlemaster Archery fighter otherwise :D).

But yeah totally bonkers and totally awesome :D

Xanchairothoss
2015-01-20, 02:35 PM
This definetly doesn´t belong here(there´s a homebrew section somewhere ;D).

This is pretty crazy, slightly too good for an archetype, but pretty great for a stand alone ranger.

I especially like the way you worded animal companion and the hunter ranger features I think those are awesome :D

I would totally play this in my current Camaign(Battlemaster Archery fighter otherwise :D).

But yeah totally bonkers and totally awesome :D

Hopefully a Mod can move it for me, or should I delete and relocate it myself?

I compared the Archetype to Eldritch Knight and Paladin as I was building it/re-working it from the original.

I was wrestling with whether this was too OP or not. Two of the core abilities (Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain) are situational, making the Ranger only shine perhaps 1/3 of the time unless tailored to a campaign where those two abilities come up regularly. Plus, Favored Terrain is at level 7 --that's a healthy investment to reap a situational benefit (and you only get 1 Terrain type). I removed Humanoids from Favored Enemy options, as I see the Ranger more as a monster slayer and Humanoid option skews it toward an Assassin.

Figured it likely balanced out, due to the above. Could be wrong. I do feel the Ranger is fairly under-powered and needed a boost in some ways. Adding familiar qualities to the companion saves a lot of space --it can be dismissed, share spells, telepathy etc. At level 7 it costs a bit more to get it, but figured that was a good trade.

Thanks for taking a look, mate ^_^

Xanchairothoss
2015-01-22, 04:39 PM
Draft two, likely final.

Martial Archetype: Ranger
Skills
At 3rd level, choose one from Investigation, Nature, or Stealth, you gain proficiency in that skill.

Spellcasting
By the time you reach 3rd level, you have learned to use the magical essence of nature to cast spells, much as a druid does. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the ranger spell list.
Preparing and Casting Spells
The Ranger table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells. To cast one of your ranger spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of ranger spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the ranger spell list. When you do so, choose a number of ranger spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + half your ranger level, rounded down (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
For example, if you are a 5th-level ranger, you have four 1st-level and two 2nd-level spell slots. With a Wisdom of 14, your list o f prepared spells can include four spells of 1st or 2nd level, in any combination. If you prepare the 1st-level spell animal friendship, you can cast it using a 1st-level or a 2nd-level slot. Casting the spell doesn’t remove it from your list of prepared spells.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of ranger spells requires time spent in prayer and meditation: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.
Spellcasting Ability
Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your ranger spells, since your magic draws on your attunement to nature. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a ranger spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

See the Ranger table p. 90 PHB for Spell Slots per Level, ignoring Spells Known.

Favored Enemy
Beginning at 3rd level, you have gained significant experience studying, tracking, hunting, and even talking to certain types of enemies.
Choose one type of favored enemy: aberrations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undead.
You gain the following benefits in relation to your favored enemy:
• You learn one language that is spoken by your favored enemy, if they speak one at all.
• You have advantage on Wisdom (Survival) checks to track your favored enemy, as well as on Intelligence checks to recall information about them.
• Once on each of your turns when you make a weapon attack, you can make another attack with the same weapon against a different creature that is within 5 feet of the original target and within range of your weapon so long as it is a favored enemy.
• When a favored enemy within 5 feet of you hits or misses you with an attack, you can use your reaction to attack that favored enemy immediately after its attack, provided that you can see the creature.
• Your tenacity can wear down the most potent foes. Whenever you hit a creature belonging to your favored enemy type with a weapon attack, the creature takes an extra 1d8 damage.

You choose one additional favored enemy, as well as one associated language, at 7th and 15th level, and two at 18th level. As you gain levels, your choices should reflect the types of monsters you have encountered on your adventures.

At 7th level, you gain the following additional benefits in relation to your favored enemies:
• You have advantage on saving throws against being frightened by your favored enemies.
• Opportunity attacks against you from favored enemies are made with disadvantage.
• When a favored enemy creature hits or misses you with an attack, you gain a +4 bonus to AC against all subsequent attacks made by that creature for the rest of the turn.

At 15th level, you gain the following additional benefits in relation to your favored enemies:
• When a favored enemy attacker that you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to halve the attack’s damage against you.
• When a favored enemy creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to force that creature to repeat the same attack against another creature (other than itself) of your choice.

At 18th level, you gain the following additional benefits in relation to your favored enemies:
• You gain preternatural senses that help you fight favored enemy creatures you can’t see. When you attack a favored enemy you can’t see, your inability to see it doesn’t impose disadvantage on your attack rolls against it.
• You are aware of the location of any invisible favored enemy creature within 30 feet of you, provided that the creature isn’t hidden from you and you aren’t blinded or deafened.
• You become an unparalleled hunter of your enemies. You add your Wisdom modifier to attack and damage rolls you make against your favored enemies.

Natural Explorer
At 7th level, you learn how to familiarize yourself with the type of environment you find yourself within and become adept at traveling and surviving in that region.
After traveling for an hour or more in a region, you gain the following benefits:
• When you make an Intelligence or Wisdom check related to the environment you’re in, your proficiency bonus is doubled if you are using a skill that you’re proficient in.
• Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
• Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.
• Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
• If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
• When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
• While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.
• You can use your action and expend one ranger spell slot to focus your awareness on the region around you. For 1 minute per level of the spell slot you expend, you can sense whether the following types of creatures are present within 6 miles of you: aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead. This feature doesn’t reveal the creatures’ location or number.
• Moving through nonmagical difficult terrain costs you no extra movement. You can also pass through nonmagical plants without being slowed by them and without taking damage from them if they have thorns, spines, or a similar hazard.
• You have advantage on saving throws against plants that are magically created or manipulated to impede movement, such those created by the entangle spell.

As you gain levels you gain additional benefits after familiarizing yourself with your environment:
• At 10th level, you can spend 1 minute creating camouflage for yourself. You must have access to fresh mud, dirt, plants, soot, and other naturally occurring materials with which to create your camouflage.
Once you are camouflaged in this way, you can try to hide by pressing yourself up against a solid surface, such as a tree or wall, that is at least as tall and wide as you are. You gain a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks as long as you remain there without moving or taking actions. Once you move or take an action or a reaction, you must camouflage yourself again to gain this benefit.
• At 15th level, you can use the Hide action as a bonus action on your turn. Also, you can’t be tracked by nonmagical means, unless you choose to leave a trail.

Ranger’s Companion
Also at 7th level, you learn the find familiar spell and can cast it as a ritual. The spell doesn’t count against your number of spells known.
When you cast the spell, you gain a beast companion that accompanies you on your adventures and is capable of fighting alongside you. Choose a beast that is native to the type of environment selected for your favored terrain. The beast can be no larger than Medium and must have a challenge rating of 1/4 or lower. In addition to the abilities gained through the find familiar spell, add your proficiency bonus to the beast’s AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in. Its hit point maximum equals its normal maximum or four times your fighter level, whichever is higher. Whenever you take the Attack action, in exchange for one of your Extra Attacks, you can allow your companion to make one attack of its own. At 10th level, whenever you use your Extra Attack to allow your beast companion to attack, your companion makes two attacks on your Attack action.
While traveling through your favored terrain with only your beast, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
At 15th level, when you cast a spell targeting yourself, you can also affect your beast companion with the spell if the beast is within 30 feet of you.

Evasion
At 10th level, you can nimbly dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a lightning bolt spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.

Multiattack
At 11th and 20th level, you may exchange gaining an Extra Attack for one of the following features of your choice:
Volley. You can use your action to make a ranged attack against any number of creatures within 10 feet of a point you can see within your weapon’s range. You must have ammunition for each target, as normal, and you make a separate attack roll for each target.
Whirlwind Attack. You can use your action to make a melee attack against any number of creatures within 5 feet of you, with a separate attack roll for each target.

Person_Man
2015-01-22, 05:07 PM
There are a number of people unhappy with the Ranger for a variety of reasons. Standard homebrew fixes that I've seen floating around generally involve allowing Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer to be changed with a Long Rest (or just making them universal - its not like they provide game breaking benefits) and/or allowing them to change their prepared spells with a Long Rest (not just when they gain a level) and/or tweaking their subclass abilities slightly. Your proposed changes seem fairly elaborate, which goes against the general simple design structure of 5E. It also seems to be a major increase from the average damage per round for non-full casters (which is pretty carefully balanced in 5E), though that's just me eyeballing it.

Instead of providing a whole bevvy of different fixes, I would suggest playing the RAW Ranger, and then just working with your DM to tweak things as needed.

Xanchairothoss
2015-01-22, 05:31 PM
Those are some intriguing tweaks. If we allow a swapping of Favored Enemy/Terrain after long rest, then the addition of further Enemies/Terrains through level progression offers little to no benefit, thus necessitating thought into what additions to incorporate into the class as it scales, else it becomes extremely front-loaded. Same goes for making them universal (though that exacerbates the issue that much more).

Changing prepared spells after a long rest is a good possibility. Though if going with the class as a Fighter Archetype it might scale more proportionately to other classes by keeping Spells Known, akin to the Eldritch Knight.

"Your proposed changes seem fairly elaborate, which goes against the general simple design structure of 5E. "

How so? I merely took the unique abilities of the Ranger class and tweaked them into applying only to Favored Enemies/Terrains, while increasing the benefits of the Beast Companion.

"It also seems to be a major increase from the average damage per round for non-full casters"

DPR is the same as an Eldritch Knight (or even a low-level Paladin if casting Hunter's Mark), with exception to vs. Favored Enemy, or if choosing Multiattack at later levels.

EDIT: Upon further reflection I concur with the suggestions for spellcasting and Natural Explorer, and have updated the second draft comment.

Easy_Lee
2015-01-22, 05:43 PM
Way too good. The reason rangers (and paladins for that matter) get half casting is because they also only get half as many attacks as a fighter. Getting half casting and still having full attack progression is too good.

The archetype does too much. It's features should fit easily on one written page. This archetype does too much.

You handpicked the best ranger features and put them here. That's too much. You even gave this archetype two more attacks than anyone else can get, via the companion attacking independently. That means ranger = 4 attacks + 1 all but guaranteed bonus regardless of weapon type + 2 for companion. That's way too much.

And favored enemies on top of all of this. That's way WAY too much.

Finally, homebrew is its own forum.

Xanchairothoss
2015-01-22, 06:05 PM
Way too good. The reason rangers (and paladins for that matter) get half casting is because they also only get half as many attacks as a fighter. Getting half casting and still having full attack progression is too good.

The archetype does too much. It's features should fit easily on one written page. This archetype does too much.

You handpicked the best ranger features and put them here. That's too much. You even gave this archetype two more attacks than anyone else can get, via the companion attacking independently. That means ranger = 4 attacks + 1 all but guaranteed bonus regardless of weapon type + 2 for companion. That's way too much.

And favored enemies on top of all of this. That's way WAY too much.

Finally, homebrew is its own forum.

I changed the Attacks per round for the second draft -See Multiattack and Ranger's Companion. Also, much of the DPR is dependent on Favored Enemies which is highly situational, and in the case of the Ranger completely rail-roaded toward what you're presented with in the gaming environment. Classes with other situational abilities can select when to use those abilities, Rangers are locked into the majority of their core abilities coming into play only when a specific environmental change occurs (particular enemy type, or terrain type showing up). Not sure HOW to move this thread.

MadBear
2015-01-22, 07:16 PM
I'll agree with the others that what you've added does way too much.

You've given him essentially the entire BM archetype, + more attacks, + Hunter archetype, + made the favored enemy come online and adding damage way earlier. It might make a fun homebrew, but I can't see any reason someone would ever play a fighter when its compared to this homebrew.

With homebrew, I find that the best fixes usually start small, and add on. It's easy to give players more options as you see fit. It's much harder to take those goodies away when it starts throwing off balance.

Xanchairothoss
2015-01-22, 07:25 PM
I'll agree with the others that what you've added does way too much.

You've given him essentially the entire BM archetype, + more attacks, + Hunter archetype, + made the favored enemy come online and adding damage way earlier. It might make a fun homebrew, but I can't see any reason someone would ever play a fighter when its compared to this homebrew.

With homebrew, I find that the best fixes usually start small, and add on. It's easy to give players more options as you see fit. It's much harder to take those goodies away when it starts throwing off balance.

Maybe I should update the first post, rather than keep expecting people to read down to the second-draft comment...

Xanchairothoss
2015-01-22, 10:07 PM
There, edited the original.

Tarrab
2015-01-23, 01:20 PM
IMO, Ranger´s can be sweet for RP with the right DM. If its only a doorbashingkillthemall adventure, then not so much.

To make up for it, as a DM I would allow three changes to the Ranger, tops:
1) Favored Enemy does an extra die of damage of the weapon you are using and only against your favored enemy.
2) When in your Favored Terrain, you gain advantage on all skill checks realted to acrobatics, athletics, stealth and to all Dex saving throws. You also gain Temporary hitpoints equal to your 5+ 1/2 your level while on your Favored Terrain which you regain on a short rest.
3) 1/Day you can make a particular target become your Favored Enemy for the next 24 hours. This will apply only to that target, not his whole race. To use this ability you need to know at least a wealth of information about the target or to have seen him for at least three rounds.