Using the Master Craftsman Feat

[SirWolf312]

So I'm making a character who has the master craftsman feat that allows him to use his ranks in a craft skill (Craft weapons in this case) to make magic items and allow him to take craft magic arms and armor. My question is does this allow him to only make magic items using the chosen skill or does it allow him to make any type of magic item that the feat covers?

[Doc_Maynot]

As written: Any item that Craft Magic Arms and Armour and Craft Wondrous Item can make with the exception of spell-trigger or spell-activation items.

[AvatarVecna]

What they said. Incidentally, while this feat is definitely a bonus for any non-magical crafter, it only serves as another example of caster superiority.

[Psyren]

What they said. Incidentally, while this feat is definitely a bonus for any non-magical crafter, it only serves as another example of caster superiority.

Shouldn't it? A skilled mundane crafting a magic sword or belt is one thing, but documenting magical theory on scrolls, brewing potions or assembling golems is quite another.

I do think they should be able to make jewelry and possibly rods though.

[AvatarVecna]

Shouldn't it? A skilled mundane crafting a magic sword or belt is one thing, but documenting magical theory on scrolls, brewing potions or assembling golems is quite another.

I do think they should be able to make jewelry and possibly rods though.

I certainly think that casters should generally be more capable of crafting magic items than a mundane, but I don't think this feat is quite right for mundane super-crafting. Please note, before we continue, that non-casters without this feat can't even use skills relevant to the item type to make magic items (the greatest armor smith in the world can't make better than masterwork if they don't have this feat), while any non-caster with this feat not only still needs to take the relevant item creation feats (making "Master Craftsman" a feat tax that affects non-casters and never affects casters), but they can use any Craft or Profession skill of their choice to craft any magical armor, weapon, or wondrous item (I suggest maxing out Craft: Baskets and Swim to optimize the hilarity of this RAW rule).

Currently, "Master Craftsman" can be used to qualify for "Craft Magical Arms & Armor" and "Craft Wondrous Item" via your Craft/Profession skills and to use said feats/skills to make items, but only if they aren't spell-trigger or spell-activation items. This means that they can make magic armor, magic weapons, and wondrous items (excluding spell-trigger/-activation items), and also means that they can't make potions, rings, rods, scrolls, staves, golems,and wands. Honestly, the best way to make sense of "non-magical magic items" is refluffing it as being less "crafting magic items without magic" and making it more "crafting items at a steampunk tech-level", or something similar.

I'll admit, even if I were to houserule this feat into something better in a RL campaign, I would probably still not allow rods, scrolls, staves, and most wands to be replicated without magic. That said, that still leaves rings, potions, and golems. Rings aren't too hard to imagine as non-magical magic items (although I'd probably limit what effects you could put on them). That said, potions can't be made by non-casters? Why? I mean, in a game that has the Alchemist and the Craft rules have an optional alchemy ruleset, you'd think that using Craft: Alchemy would be a way for a Master Craftsman to make potions.

And golems? I mean, come on, just about everything that makes the flesh golem a flesh golem was inspired by a corpse scientifically animated by Dr. Frankenstein. For the rest of the golems, any generic robot will suffice (Yeah, I build machine-people in my spare time, what of it?) There's a lot of room for interesting fluff combining with interesting mechanics.

[Coidzor]

Ahh. I'd misread the feat then. :smalleek: My understanding was that the crafter became so good at their craft that they were able to tap into the fundamental background magic of the universe and channel it into items and thereby make them magical rather than... somehow mundanely replicating magic items without them actually being magic.

If they're not actually magic and thus function in AMF, that actually would be worth the extra feat tax to take Master Craftman before the Wondrous Item and Arms and Armor feats, I think.

Certainly Fighters and other gear-dependent characters that are otherwise completely shut down by AMF would like being able to function in them or even being able to make use of them tactically so that they're less inconvenienced by AMF than casters are as was, IIRC, intended.

[Psyren]

I certainly think that casters should generally be more capable of crafting magic items than a mundane, but I don't think this feat is quite right for mundane super-crafting. Please note, before we continue, that non-casters without this feat can't even use skills relevant to the item type to make magic items (the greatest armor smith in the world can't make better than masterwork if they don't have this feat), while any non-caster with this feat not only still needs to take the relevant item creation feats (making "Master Craftsman" a feat tax that affects non-casters and never affects casters), but they can use any Craft or Profession skill of their choice to craft any magical armor, weapon, or wondrous item (I suggest maxing out Craft: Baskets and Swim to optimize the hilarity of this RAW rule).

Currently, "Master Craftsman" can be used to qualify for "Craft Magical Arms & Armor" and "Craft Wondrous Item" via your Craft/Profession skills and to use said feats/skills to make items, but only if they aren't spell-trigger or spell-activation items. This means that they can make magic armor, magic weapons, and wondrous items (excluding spell-trigger/-activation items), and also means that they can't make potions, rings, rods, scrolls, staves, golems,and wands. Honestly, the best way to make sense of "non-magical magic items" is refluffing it as being less "crafting magic items without magic" and making it more "crafting items at a steampunk tech-level", or something similar.

Yeah, I know how it works. I'm still not seeing the problem. "Wondrous Item" is a very broad category, it can literally make anything you want (especially using the Ultimate Campaign guidelines) and so you can have a slotless command-word flamethrower instead of a wand etc. if you want one. If you want to beef it up without altering this feat, simply be more lenient in the kinds of items you let your players make. They still have to add +5 to the DC for any prereqs they don't meet, such as whatever spells they want to stick into the thing, or racial/class feature requirements you come up with.

As for making "golems" - you can allow them to create various item-based creatures without Craft Construct if you want as well. After all, Figurine of Wondrous Power is a wondrous item that becomes a creature.

And finally, for "potions" - there are plenty of consumable wondrous items out there. Just because they can't pour some magic liquid into a glass bottle doesn't mean they can't make any cheap one-shot items.


Ahh. I'd misread the feat then. :smalleek: My understanding was that the crafter became so good at their craft that they were able to tap into the fundamental background magic of the universe and channel it into items and thereby make them magical rather than... somehow mundanely replicating magic items without them actually being magic.

If they're not actually magic and thus function in AMF, that actually would be worth the extra feat tax to take Master Craftman before the Wondrous Item and Arms and Armor feats, I think.

No, your first rationale was actually the right one. They are making magic items using "background radiation" so to speak, and anything they make is indeed subject to all the normal magic item rules like AMF and dispels.

[skypse]

(I suggest maxing out Craft: Baskets and Swim to optimize the hilarity of this RAW rule).



Huh?????????

[stack]

Huh?????????

Underwater basket weaving, the standard ridiculous profession example.

[Psyren]

Even that isn't too farfetched honestly. In Wheel of Time, knitting is correlated with skill at spellcraft (for women at least), because the most complex spells involve weaving together multiple threads into a complex tapestry. This is not to say that you need to be good at knitting to be good with the Power, but whenever you see a channeler knitting (like Cadsuane or Moiraine) you know she is talented too.

So yeah, weaving baskets to better make magic items - not that outlandish.

[stack]

The reference shows up outside games though - like making a crack about someone with a college degree of questionable use. "I shouldn't have majored in underwater basketweaving."

[Psyren]

The reference shows up outside games though - like making a crack about someone with a college degree of questionable use. "I shouldn't have majored in underwater basketweaving."

http://xkcd.com/1052/

[stack]

http://xkcd.com/1052/

That one is classic.