sword based paladin

[j_spencer93]

Ok i am working on another PRC, i have the idea and race decided but this site is like a reserve of knowledge so i am asking them for a little aid making it work. I am looking to build a paladin focused in using a 1-handed or 2-handed sword, are then ACF, feats, etc that specifically support this build?

Aasimar paladin

[Troacctid]

Fist of Raziel lets you automatically confirm critical hits when you smite evil, which is nice with a falchion. Pick your preferred method of increasing threat range and go to town with Power Attack. You can toss in Awesome Smite and Resounding Blow for good measure.

It does require getting a little lucky, but hey, Paladins are all about having faith, right?

[Red Fel]

Ok i am working on another PRC, i have the idea and race decided but this site is like a reserve of knowledge so i am asking them for a little aid making it work. I am looking to build a paladin focused in using a 1-handed or 2-handed sword, are then ACF, feats, etc that specifically support this build?

Aasimar paladin

Well, let's start with the basic question: What system (PF, 3.0, 3.5) and what restrictions (books, etc.)?

And let me make one point upfront: A melee-oriented Cleric will be more powerful, in the long run, than a Paladin. I'm going to assume that you specifically want the Paladin class, as opposed to the Paladin style (divine power, armor, big smashing weapon, etc.), and proceed accordingly.

You mention ACFs, which tend to be a 3.5 thing, so I'll assume 3.5 and start from there. I'm going to translate "Paladin with a sword" to be "Paladin with smite," because if you're focused on the sword, you're focusing on melee damage, which means smite damage for maximum effect. We're going to go with a two-handed sword, because that lets us up the numbers. Let's start with the Charging Smite ACF (PHB II), which replaces your Special Mount with the ability to combine a smite with a charge. You deal extra damage when smiting while charging and if your charge misses, your smite isn't expended - valuable when smite is a rare resource for you.

Next, let's grab you a PrC. I'm thinking either Fist of Raziel (BoED) or Ordained Champion (Complete Champion) if you worship Heironeous. Fist of Raziel advances your Paladin casting 9/10 levels, not that you need it, but the major thing is that it gives full BAB and majorly amps up your smites. First, it gives up to 5 additional smites per day. Second, it augments all smites - those through Fist of Raziel and those you get from other (e.g. Paladin) sources - with a variety of useful power-ups. And third, it augments your weapon attacks even while not smiting. It is the Paladin PrC, and for good reason.

Ordained Champion only advances spellcasting 3/5, but that's not the big thing. It also lets you convert your Turn Undead uses into Smite attacks that are not limited by type; useful, but also not the big thing. It even lets you burn a Turn Undead use to add Wis in place of Str on attack and damage rolls, but that's not the big thing. No, the big thing is that it gives a non-casting-focused Paladin a use for his spells while in combat. First, you can channel spells into your weapon (although you may not have many or any that work that way). Second, you can burn a spell as a swift action to gain DR, or deal bonus damage. There are other class features, but frankly they work better for a Cleric than a Paladin.

Another option, if available, is the Ruby Knight Vindicator (ToB), which basically combines Paladin with the maneuver-using abilities of a Crusader. Note that you would play more like a Crusader than a Paladin, but some of the powers of that class - particularly Divine Impetus - are incredibly potent, and fit the idea of a divine swordsman.

With regard to feats, Battle Blessing is your friend, and Awesome Smite will help you maximize the utility of your smites.

Note that if you're playing PF instead of 3.5, you should disregard the entirety of my proposal, and probably PrC into Champion of Irori the Enlightened, because it is awesome.

[LoyalPaladin]

I am currently playing an Aasimar Paladin. You are more than welcome to look over my build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?385211-How-is-my-Paladin-build&highlight=loyalpaladin). It's not for everyone. But if you want to hit a baddie hard, it does the trick.

[j_spencer93]

In the campaign i have banned full casters. So cleric out. PF + 3.x + 3rd party.

[j_spencer93]

I will be looking into Fist of Raziel, Ordained Champion, Ruby Knight Vindicator to see which fits best. Now Charging Smite ACF would be perfect, a mount wont really fit this build and yes, it is a smiting 2-handed sword character.

[Zaq]

Does it have to be an aasimar? Sapphire Smite (form Magic of Incarnum) is a great feat for anyone who wants to go around smiting things, and azurins can use it better than aasimar can, because they get a free point of essentia. If you're married to the aasimar concept, you can still benefit from using Sapphire Smite, but you want to get some essentia from somewhere else. A level in (yes, this is bad) Soulborn will get you another Smite Evil pool, and Sapphire Smite adds to all of your Smite pools, though Soulborn and Paladin won't stack for smite damage unless you have a permissive GM, and Soulborn won't actually get you any essentia to invest in Sapphire Smite unless you sink waaaay too many levels into it. A dip in Incarnate requires a permissive GM (Paladins can't be Incarnates, because Paladins have to be Lawful Good and Incarnates have to be Neutral Something), but if your GM lets you get away with it, it'll give you some essentia to invest and some soulmelds to play with, though it will cost you a couple points of BAB.

[j_spencer93]

Ya i am DM but Aasimar was for flavor. Azurin prob work too but not really into the soulborn dip. oops mean incarnate.

[Red Fel]

In the campaign i have banned full casters. So cleric out. PF + 3.x + 3rd party.

PF Paladin is a superior choice, then, since PF smite > 3.5 smite. Disregard my Champion of the Enlightened suggestion, though; even though Crusader's Flurry lets you use your deity's favored weapon as a Monk weapon (for Flurry purposes), CoE's abilities focus on unarmed strikes.

[j_spencer93]

Actually PF paladin isnt used. I have let my player who also has DM experience decide on which version to use PF or WoTC for classes that are in both and paladin was selected as WoTC however i have no clue why. will update that if my player changed his mind or i had info wrong.

[Mato]

A cleric that goes ordained champion and fist of razial is better than a paladin. And smite is pretty limited, I'd go the jack of all trades route.

Take sword of the arcane order, battle blessing and use the mystic fire knight acf to increase your caster level. You now have sorcerer/wizard/paladin spells as a swift action. Using flaws take devoted performer and initiate of milil to gain bardic music, you'll want words of creation later and dragonfire but most of the static progression can be increased with items and wands. You will have both bardic music and turn undead so you can use divine metamagic and metamagic song to keep some good buff spells up too. Then just use a mighty smiting vigilant halberd while wearing a perfect's vestment and noble pennon.

[Flickerdart]

Are you open to Prestige Paladin? You can get in without Cleric (Fighter 4/Soldier of Light 1/Divine Crusader 2 is my favourite way to get in) and then you get all the important stuff without having to suffer through all those Paladin dead levels in the tail end of your career.

[j_spencer93]

wow love your idea Mato, and yes prestige paldain is an option, would it benefit placing it upon Mato's build

[Flickerdart]

Prestige Paladin is meant to be an alternative to the regular paladin, and shouldn't be used in the same campaign.

Sword of the Arcane Order would do nothing for a Prestige Paladin because he has no Paladin spell slots. However, since paladins are hella MAD as-is, they have difficulty being able to afford the INT necessary for Wizard spells.

Also, Mato's build doesn't work. Initiate of Milil does not give you Bardic Music uses, nor does it give you the ability Bardic Music to qualify for Devoted Performer. Even if it did, Devoted Performer explicitly says "if you have Bard and Paladin levels" which you do not. It doesn't matter anyway because Initiate of Milil can't be combined with Sword of the Arcane Order - you cannot have both Milil and Mystra as your patron deities. Nor does Battle Blessing let you cast spells gained with SotAO as a swift action, because they are not Paladin spells.

[j_spencer93]

actually i think i should have clarified. I meant the prestige paladin plus SoAO, battle blessing, mystic fire knight. really should have been "i like both of your ideas but does it work this way...."

[Flickerdart]

Yeah, Prestige Paladin doesn't work with any of those. You wouldn't really need Mystic Fire Knight though, since your CL will be better anyway.

[j_spencer93]

ah ok thanks. well shoot.

[Mato]

Also, Mato's build doesn't work. For such a raw rebuttal you're overlooking that by raw kinds of bardic music is still bardic music.

If you start as a bard for one whole level, it'll give a really nice skill point increase anyway, it keeps the flickerdarts away. If you'll settle for just inspire courage instead of dragonfire inspiration you can also just use the harmonious knight instead of mystic fire knight or the smite to song feat. It just so happens that the paladin is immune to flickerdart's attempt to rain on your musical parade. :smallwink:

And if you want to try combining it with prestige paladin, just use divine bard to enter the class. You will still have a large chunk of spells that is normally found on the wizard/sorcerer list too.

[Flickerdart]

For such a raw rebuttal you're overlooking that by raw kinds of bardic music is still bardic music.
No, it isn't. There is a "bardic music" ability that is distinct from the actual songs.