A more durable/lethal whip?

[The Shadowdove]

Hey guys,

I am kind of the assistant dm in one of our games, in the sense that I have the time to look into 5e things and don't mind doing it.

The current game is getting further in, and at this point most of our players have invested in or found better weapons.

All except for our dexterity based fighter. He uses a buckler and whip primarily, with darts and shortsword as his secondary.

The problem is, the whip has a very low durability. He has to buy backup whips often because the more martial enemies aren't so dumb as to not cut them up when fighting in close.

The damage isn't all that great, either. Considering magical rapiers would be more common than a magical whip, and rapiers are a heck of a lot less common than longswords as magical weapons go.

How would you propose going about making a more durable whip?

How about one that does a bit more damage?

I'd love to finally be able to give him a better weapon now that we are past level 11 as a group.

I look forward to your suggestions very much.

Thank you,

-Dove

[Alucard2099]

Hey guys,

I am kind of the assistant dm in one of our games, in the sense that I have the time to look into 5e things and don't mind doing it.

The current game is getting further in, and at this point most of our players have invested in or found better weapons.

All except for our dexterity based fighter. He uses a buckler and whip primarily, with darts and shortsword as his secondary.

The problem is, the whip has a very low durability. He has to buy backup whips often because the more martial enemies aren't so dumb as to not cut them up when fighting in close.

The damage isn't all that great, either. Considering magical rapiers would be more common than a magical whip, and rapiers are a heck of a lot less common than longswords as magical weapons go.

How would you propose going about making a more durable whip?

How about one that does a bit more damage?

I'd love to finally be able to give him a better weapon now that we are past level 11 as a group.

I look forward to your suggestions very much.

Thank you,

-Dove


I would go with the Chain Whip. Make it 2d4 or 2d6 depending on the level of the group. This would also make it a hell of a lot more durable. Because it's now made of steel, you could always give it magical properties, such as fire damage *coughcastlevaniacough*

[The Shadowdove]

I would go with the Chain Whip. Make it 2d4 or 2d6 depending on the level of the group. This would also make it a hell of a lot more durable. Because it's now made of steel, you could always give it magical properties, such as fire damage *coughcastlevaniacough*

Haha, that sounds pretty cool actually. I may imbue some elemental property at a later level. But more physical dps and durability are fine for now.

I know that in real life there are braided lengths of thin durable metals and Chinese chain whips with a spike at the end.

So this makes a lot of sense.
Would you recommend one of chains, or would something like a "braided mithril cable" be a better option?


Also, is there a list somewhere of common material/item/metal hardness anywhere?

[Alucard2099]

Haha, that sounds pretty cool actually. I may imbue some elemental property at a later level. But more physical dps and durability are fine for now.

I know that in real life there are braided lengths of thin durable metals and Chinese chain whips with a spike at the end.

So this makes a lot of sense.
Would you recommend one of chains, or would something like a "braided mithril cable" be a better option?


Also, is there a list somewhere of common material/item/metal hardness anywhere?

I would go with chain at lower levels, and braided metals later in the game.

There is a section of the DMG(page 246) that highlights the aspects of material, like AC, HP, size, damage type and thresholds.

Hope this helps.

[The Shadowdove]

I would go with chain at lower levels, and braided metals later in the game.

There is a section of the DMG(page 246) that highlights the aspects of material, like AC, HP, size, damage type and thresholds.

Hope this helps.

No, it helps more than you imagine! I thought hardness tables would be in the player handbook like previous editions and didn't look hard enough in the dmg I think.

This actually answers half of the question I just posted on a new thread.

[Slipperychicken]

If you ask me, I think a one-handed reach weapon doing 2d4 or 2d6 would be OP.

Maybe an "upgraded" metal whip would have 1d6 and remove the finesse property? That way it wouldn't totally outclass the other one-handed weapons like shortsword and battleaxe, nor would it outclass the other finesse weapons.

[Ziegander]

If you ask me, I think a one-handed reach weapon doing 2d4 or 2d6 damage would be OP.

Totally, but only if it cost only 35gp and was as easy to obtain as any normal steel longsword. But if took the place (and cost) of, say an uncommon or even rare magic item, then it would be completely fine in my opinion.

[Wolfsraine]

If you ask me, I think a one-handed reach weapon doing 2d4 or 2d6 would be OP.

Maybe an "upgraded" metal whip would have 1d6 and remove the finesse property? That way it wouldn't totally outclass the other one-handed weapons like shortsword and battleaxe, nor would it outclass the other finesse weapons.

What's OP about it? I hear that term thrown around a lot. You realize we aren't in a video game right? The DM is there to adjust if something is too hard or too easy. Nothing is OP. As long as everyone is having fun, who the hell gives a ****.

[Slipperychicken]

What's OP about it? I hear that term thrown around a lot. You realize we aren't in a video game right? The DM is there to adjust if something is too hard or too easy. Nothing is OP. As long as everyone is having fun, who the hell gives a ****.

The idea is so that it doesn't render other weapons obsolete. If you had a weapon that dealt 2d6, was finesse, one-handed, not heavy, and reach, there would be almost no mechanical reason to use anything else.

EDIT: The proposed weapon has the best damage die (2d6), which is currently reserved as the main reason to use heavy two-handed weapons like the greatsword and maul. On top of that, it has a number of highly-desirable weapon properties (reach, finesse, one-handed) which make it extremely attractive to a variety of classes and builds. It would be straight-up superior to other one-handed weapons in just about every way (even price isn't an issue if your starting equipment says "one martial weapon"), dealing more base damage, and usable for dex builds.

[Ziegander]

even price isn't an issue if your starting equipment says "one martial weapon")

:smallannoyed:

No one is saying that a player should be allowed to start with such a weapon. What I was suggesting would be to give the PC such a weapon in place of a magic item that the character might have otherwise gotten. In a treasure trove that includes stuff like a Sentinel Shield, a Robe of Useful Items, and Eyes of the Eagle, the DM might include an Ironbriar Whip that deals 1d8 piercing and slashing damage, has 10 hit points, and resistance to all damage.

A Flametongue is a martial weapon, is it not? A PC can't begin play with an Ironbriar Whip for the same reason he/she couldn't begin play with a Flametongue. It would be magical. Or, if you're really hung up on it, call it an exotic weapon and be done with it. Just because 5e does not currently model exotic weapons, doesn't mean the system is incapable of supporting them.

[Sidmen]

Honestly, I'd stat out a metal/chain whip as a whip with higher AC because of its material.

At the same time, I'd be giving him an enchanted whip that dealt an extra 2d4 fire damage - statting it out as an Uncommon magic item akin to a weaker Flametongue.

Why 2d4? Because rolling 3d4 is baller; nobody gets to do that.

[CrusaderJoe]

:smallannoyed:

No one is saying that a player should be allowed to start with such a weapon. What I was suggesting would be to give the PC such a weapon in place of a magic item that the character might have otherwise gotten. In a treasure trove that includes stuff like a Sentinel Shield, a Robe of Useful Items, and Eyes of the Eagle, the DM might include an Ironbriar Whip that deals 1d8 piercing and slashing damage, has 10 hit points, and resistance to all damage.

A Flametongue is a martial weapon, is it not? A PC can't begin play with an Ironbriar Whip for the same reason he/she couldn't begin play with a Flametongue. It would be magical. Of, if you're really hung up on it, call it an exotic weapon and be done with it. Just because 5e does not currently model exotic weapons, doesn't mean the system is incapable of supporting them.

Flametongue is a magic weapon, the proposed super whip would be a martial weapon since it is not being proposed as a magic weapon. There is no such thing as exotic weapons as of right now. Don't get annoyed when people use actual game ideas and apply it.

Though one thing I have done in the past (playtest) was have a player's starting sword start out as a normal long sword (heirloom) and she eventually found documents on it which gave her the trigger word for it. Once the trigger words were used it became a +1 Flametongue. Fun ways of doing stuff.

[silveralen]

Mithral whip seems like it'd solve the breaking issues, and it's flexible enough to be plausible. Plus, technically a magic item by DMG standards so, if you tried to have a player argue something like what people are doing, it'd shut it out immediately.

As far as stats go.... I'd say 1d6 one handed finesse reach+magical abilities on par with whatever the rest of the group has.

[Ziegander]

Flametongue is a magic weapon, the proposed super whip would be a martial weapon since it is not being proposed as a magic weapon. There is no such thing as exotic weapons as of right now. Don't get annoyed when people use actual game ideas and apply it.

Though one thing I have done in the past (playtest) was have a player's starting sword start out as a normal long sword (heirloom) and she eventually found documents on it which gave her the trigger word for it. Once the trigger words were used it became a +1 Flametongue. Fun ways of doing stuff.

You argument was that, regardless of pricing or rarity, a player could start with a "super whip" because, as a whip, it's a martial weapon. But your argument falls apart because any magical weapon is also a martial weapon. Magic weapons do not cease to be martial weapons, and there are no rules, only guidelines, that would prevent a character from choosing something like a Flametongue as their "one martial weapon" to start the game with if we are using your standards for starting equipment.

I'm sorry you didn't understand that when I suggested the super-whip take the place of a magic item, I meant it to be handled as a magic item (even if, technically, it doesn't have to be, for a variety of reasons).