looking for a tier 3/4 divine caster

[nuk]

My family and I have recently started playing 3.5, and none of us have much experience. My wife (the least experienced), wants to try her hand at DMing, and after some discussion she's decided to ban tier 1/2 characters.

I'm interested in making a tier 3/4 divine caster, who I want to be able to do at least some basic healing starting at level 1 (i.e. not a ranger). But I'm not aware of much that fits the bill. A Dragon Shaman doesn't interest me much. Any suggestions?

I'm thinking about de-powering a Favored Soul. Would sprinkling in 4 levels of, say, Swordsage be enough to drop it down a tier? Or should I do something to nerf spellcasting further?

Thanks

[(Un)Inspired]

Would she be open to letting you try a pathfinder inquisitor? They're pretty cool and fit nicely into tier 3.

Natively in 3.5 there's the divine bard.

[Honest Tiefling]

Perhaps ask her if you can be a cleric, but nerf the cleric. Don't take the worst spells and grab less then stellar domains. Heck, steal the Bard's spellcasting progression if you need to.

[Amphetryon]

Is Shugenja an option? It's pretty much right in the appropriate Tiers, right out of the box.

[eggynack]

A healer making use of the sanctified spells from the book of exalted deeds and champions of valor fits in that range pretty well, and obviously heals with at least reasonable proficiency.

[nuk]

Is Shugenja an option? It's pretty much right in the appropriate Tiers, right out of the box.

Yes, thanks, that would work. I also should have considered it myself, since I've read CD. I probably assumed 9th level spells meant tier 1/2.

[gorfnab]

Nightstalker from Dragonlance: Races of Ansalon is a tier 3/4 divine caster. It has access to the cure spell line and other healing spells up to 6th level.

[Emmerlaus]

If you want to get Healing, you could go with lower Tiers arcane caster and start with the feat Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Arcane_Disciple

The Only good who give it is Pelor though, which woudl oblige you to be neutral good. You can houserule it have to be the same alignement of his clerics (So Chaotic Good, Neutral Good or Lawful Good).

Tiers for spellcasters pretty much depends of the build and spells you are taking. So just be careful when building the characters and you will be alright :)

PS: I had lots of fun playing a Chaotic Good beguiler. If you guys need a roguish, skill-monkey character, it could be the class for you.

[Amphetryon]

If you want to get Healing, you could go with lower Tiers arcane caster and start with the feat Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/featbox.pl?feat=Arcane_Disciple

The Only good who give it is Pelor though, which woudl oblige you to be neutral good. You can houserule it have to be the same alignement of his clerics (So Chaotic Good, Neutral Good or Lawful Good).

Tiers for spellcasters pretty much depends of the build and spells you are taking. So just be careful when building the characters and you will be alright :)

PS: I had lots of fun playing a Chaotic Good beguiler. If you guys need a roguish, skill-monkey character, it could be the class for you.
While the highlighted portion is true, most of the arguments I remember about the Beguiler belonging in T2, rather than T3, centered around teh Arcane Disciple Feat. Proceed with caution if you take this option.

[sideswipe]

i don't know what tier the shaman is from oriental adventures, but i'm guessing low tier 1 or tier 2.

their spell list is a lot more restricted then a clerics, and although they get some of the really good ones they are missing many gems.
if its still too powerful then you could always deny thm domains, or just restrict them to OA only domains.

[OldTrees1]

Arcane Disciple (Renewal) + Touch of Healing is a 2 feat healer that can be added to any Tier 3 arcane caster. It starts healing at 3rd level which is still pretty early.

[nedz]

While the highlighted portion is true, most of the arguments I remember about the Beguiler belonging in T2, rather than T3, centered around teh Arcane Disciple Feat. Proceed with caution if you take this option.

I thought that was only true if you chose a Patron god with a lot of domains and then UMDd a Wand of Substitute Domain :smallamused:
Gets you the domain power too :smallwink:

[Spore]

Warpriest from Pathfinder does this.

[Emmerlaus]

I thought that was only true if you chose a Patron god with a lot of domains and then UMDd a Wand of Substitute Domain :smallamused:
Gets you the domain power too :smallwink:

Indeed! Thats what I thought too...

Choosing Pelor mean it wont be abusive, he dont have lots of domain, no abusive ones too. Even more, selecting the Healing Domain wont make it abusive. It will only make it a part-time healer. With a Wand of Cure Light Wounds and some ranks in Use Magic device, it could be fun and not game-breaking.

They will probably not search for OP, game-breaking build too... Just limit the items given to the players to be in the Dungeon Master Guide only will simplify things for the GM and wont make the beguiler increase Tiers.

[nedz]

Indeed! Thats what I thought too...

Choosing Pelor mean it wont be abusive, he dont have lots of domain, no abusive ones too. Even more, selecting the Healing Domain wont make it abusive. It will only make it a part-time healer. With a Wand of Cure Light Wounds and some ranks in Use Magic device, it could be fun and not game-breaking.

They will probably not search for OP, game-breaking build too... Just limit the items given to the players to be in the Dungeon Master Guide only will simplify things for the GM and wont make the beguiler increase Tiers.

It's quite easy to grab most of the Conjuration and Divination spells though.

[icefractal]

Multiclass Cleric? Dilute the casting enough and it'll be whatever tier you want (depending what you dilute it with). Cleric/Monk is pretty fun.

[johnbragg]

There's a de-powered homebrewed Cleric in my signature, the Theophilite (Theophilite Warrior is probably the one you want.) You're limited to one spell per spell level per day, chosen from your 4 domain spells. (If your domains overlap, ask the DM for a suitable replacement option.) It's built on the NPC Warrior chassis, so you get full BAB but you lose the good Will save.

One drawback is that every other level is a "dead level", since your spellcasting doesn't improve and clerics (and cleric quick-fixes) don't get new class features.

[Chronos]

Doesn't Arcane Disciple only let you cast the spells once per day, though?

[OldTrees1]

Doesn't Arcane Disciple only let you cast the spells once per day, though?

Yes. So Arcane Disciple(Renewal) for Restoration spells (only needed a few times per day) + Touch of Healing(usable as many times as you want) is a better setup.

[YossarianLives]

Adept is the only thing I can think of. However it's probably considered sub-optimal to play a NPC class.

[Svata]

Spirit Shaman. Druid list with interesting spell mechanics (kinda like prepared casters have in 5e, now that I think about it). No Wildshape or AC, though you do get a spirit guide who grants several minor bonuses aver the levels including a 1/week raise dead with no level loss (must be used within 1 round of death), 1/day incoporeality that lasts 1 minute, and segeral other things. Its in C Divine, on page 14.

[eggynack]

I guess there's a vague argument for spirit shaman in tier 3, but it's high tier 3 at worst, and might actually be high tier 2 or tier 1. It's a weird class like that, and seems like it could be ill suited on that basis.

[Emmerlaus]

Anyway, I think now we answered the question. Personnaly, I think the best option are:

1) Shudenja

or 2) Beguiler with Arcane Disciple (Healing domain), worship Pelor and Touch Of Healing feat at level 3 for free Healing. (Renewal is not a domain in the core book, better pick Healing for simplicity).

========

I dont like the Spirit Shaman. Its a bad class, worst then the Dragon Shaman in my opinion.

[eggynack]

I dont like the Spirit Shaman. Its a bad class, worst then the Dragon Shaman. Well, thast only me anyway.
I'm not really sure what you mean by bad. It's a class that runs in a practically prepared fashion off of a very powerful spell list. It's no druid, for a wide variety of reasons, but it's a very powerful class.

[Emmerlaus]

I'm not really sure what you mean by bad. It's a class that runs in a practically prepared fashion off of a very powerful spell list. It's no druid, for a wide variety of reasons, but it's a very powerful class.

As I said, its mostly my opinion. Played right, its powerful, ok. But I dont like the flavor and how he works. What I mean by bad is mostly because of flavor and mechanic, not optimization. I would rather play a druid without any Wild Shapes rather then play a Spirit Shaman.

[Jigawatts]

Warpriest from Pathfinder does this.
+1

Warpriest and Inquisitor and built from the ground up to be exactly what you seek. Easily found on the d20pfsrd.

[gorfnab]

Divine Bard Variant (UA) might be worth looking into or maybe just a healing based Bard using stuff like Arcane Disciple and Combat Medic.

[PaucaTerrorem]

Cleric, but don't go crazy with domains and spell selection. Hell, play neutral who channels inflict but prep cures.

[(Un)Inspired]

+1

Warpriest and Inquisitor and built from the ground up to be exactly what you seek. Easily found on the d20pfsrd.


Divine Bard Variant (UA) might be worth looking into or maybe just a healing based Bard using stuff like Arcane Disciple and Combat Medic.

I think earlier in the thread some super hansom dude already suggested inquisitor and divine bard.

[Svata]

I guess there's a vague argument for spirit shaman in tier 3, but it's high tier 3 at worst, and might actually be high tier 2 or tier 1. It's a weird class like that, and seems like it could be ill suited on that basis.

Yeah, the Spirit Shaman does kinda defy tiering a bit, doesn't it... I was going off the argument that "Any one aspect of the druid would be solidly tier 3 by itself", and, given that SS is mostly druid spell list with a half dozen situational bonuses, and one or two solidly useful ones limited in scope, I didn't feel out of place mentioning it. Also, I like the class, and don't get a chance to mention it often, so cut me some slack.:smalltongue:

[Spore]

I think earlier in the thread some super hansom dude already suggested inquisitor and divine bard.

You do know what "+1" and "seconded" mean, do you? And did you catch the word "Warpriest"?

[nedz]

Doesn't Arcane Disciple only let you cast the spells once per day, though?

Once per day per spell level — but you can take the feat multiple times. Also, Wands — yes I know about UMD: but getting 20 is quite hard at low level. You could always take Craft Wand or Scribe Scroll if you wanted.

**********

Oh noes, not the Spirit Shaman Tier debate again :smallsigh:
I've seen at least three full threads on that one: opinions are Tier 1: 49%, Tier 2: 49 % and Tier 3: 2% — IIRC.

I think it was an interesting class mechanic, but not one they ever repeated.

I quite like them — though I've never had the chance to play one.

[(Un)Inspired]

You do know what "+1" and "seconded" mean, do you? And did you catch the word "Warpriest"?

Nope. No clue and I didn't catch it.

[eggynack]

Oh noes, not the Spirit Shaman Tier debate again :smallsigh:
I've seen at least three full threads on that one: opinions are Tier 1: 49%, Tier 2: 49 % and Tier 3: 2% — IIRC.

Pretty much. The only problem in their placement really is that tier 3 thing, because otherwise the decision of whether to put them in high tier 2 or low tier 1 would just be a matter of semantics. They would exist in the same position on the overall sorting of classes either way, after all.

[nedz]

Pretty much. The only problem in their placement really is that tier 3 thing, because otherwise the decision of whether to put them in high tier 2 or low tier 1 would just be a matter of semantics. They would exist in the same position on the overall sorting of classes either way, after all.

Tier 1.5 ?

[eggynack]

Tier 1.5 ?
Something like that, yeah.