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nrg89
2015-01-21, 08:37 AM
It turned out that this week I only have new players coming over. This will be the second time I have to introduce new players to the RPG hobby in general in my life, and I don't think it went over all that well last time.

It was about two years ago. There was some problems with their expectations on the campaign, since they weren't that used to roleplaying at all and mostly wanted fighting and laughs to be had. It was not that hard to adjust to for me, and laughs were had.

But the rules was the main problem. We played Pathfinder and started out at level one but it's those feats, man. They just overwhelm beginners. I used to love DnD because of the feats but once I figured out that feat chains, focuses and class specific feats look like a daunting mess to new players I've come to view them much more negatively. Getting a decent idea of what a class really is was also hard because as they get more abilities their roles change a lot, this is especially true with the druid who one of my players rolled up. He was basically viewing pre-wildshape levels as a weekly grind or something until he finally got awesome and it was hard watching him envy the paladin's fighting prowess.

So, any tips for easing new players into the hobby so this time will be different for me? What encounters do you usually have for a party full of fresh players and how do you make sure that they have enough understanding of the rules to get through their turn of combat and level themselves up? I've thought about trying out Savage Worlds in order to be more friendly for beginners.

Knaight
2015-01-21, 09:19 AM
But the rules was the main problem. We played Pathfinder and started out at level one but it's those feats, man. They just overwhelm beginners. I used to love DnD because of the feats but once I figured out that feat chains, focuses and class specific feats look like a daunting mess to new players I've come to view them much more negatively. Getting a decent idea of what a class really is was also hard because as they get more abilities their roles change a lot, this is especially true with the druid who one of my players rolled up. He was basically viewing pre-wildshape levels as a weekly grind or something until he finally got awesome and it was hard watching him envy the paladin's fighting prowess.

There's a reason I don't use D&D 3.x as an introductory game. Well, several reasons, but there's a reason beyond the reasons I don't use it in general. It's about 1000 pages of core rules, character creation takes a while, an while new players generally can grasp it it takes more focus than I'd particularly like it to, as there's also all the non-system stuff to get ahold of.

I generally introduce new players with Fudge, but there are a lot of viable systems for it. Using one of them is an obvious fix here.

hymer
2015-01-21, 09:35 AM
I tend to agree with Knaight. I find, however, that you can make things easier to start with in 3/P, by giving the group some premade characters to choose from; preferably more choices than players. Also have a plan or three for how the builds will develop from where they start, and let the player decide as time goes by with your knowledgeable help. If someone wants to go it on their own, they're welcome.
Oh, and be sure to allow adjustments over time. If a choice doesn't work out as the player had hoped, let them change it retroactively.
Lastly, be as sure as you can that all PCs can be awesome at something. You can't guarantee it will be used (some players are just funny that way), but you should make the effort anyway.

Knaight
2015-01-21, 09:41 AM
I tend to agree with Knaight. I find, however, that you can make things easier to start with in 3/P, by giving the group some premade characters to choose from; preferably more choices than players. Also have a plan or three for how the builds will develop from where they start, and let the player decide as time goes by with your knowledgeable help. If someone wants to go it on their own, they're welcome.
Optional premades are probably a good idea in almost any system, really. There are a few where it just doesn't work, but for anything else they're useful as examples even if nobody chooses to actually use them.

hamlet
2015-01-21, 09:56 AM
Pathfinder is kind of hardcore for new gamers. Hell, for old gamers.

If you're really easing folks into the game, can I recommend that you use a simpler game?

Something like OSRIC, Labrynth Lord, or maybe Swords and Wizardry are all good bets. You can grasp the fundamentals in the course of an hour and land on your feet so to speak. Plus, they work well overall.

Then, once they get into the swing of things with an easier rule set, you can start introducing them to the more complex things in Pathfinder a bit at a time.

Firest Kathon
2015-01-21, 10:59 AM
If using a simpler system than Pathfinder/D&D is not an option, I suggest to initially shield them from the rules. Sit down with them, ask them what they want to play, and then tell them what to write on this strange sheet of paper in front of them (or give them a pregen, e.g. from here (http://paizo.com/products/btpy9a64)). Give them a general description of the most important terminology and rules (e.g. abilities, skills, saves, ... and D20+modifier vs. DC), then start the play. If they want to do something in game, tell them what to roll. After the first few sessions, they should have enough experience to look at a rulebook and at least understand what is going on. I used this approach before, and I would like to think that it was quite successful.

Edited to add: If using this approach, I would also suggest to give them the option to change the character after some time. They may very well have a better idea about what character they want to play after some playing time.

ComaVision
2015-01-21, 12:10 PM
If using a simpler system than Pathfinder/D&D is not an option, I suggest to initially shield them from the rules. Sit down with them, ask them what they want to play, and then tell them what to write on this strange sheet of paper in front of them (or give them a pregen, e.g. from here (http://paizo.com/products/btpy9a64)). Give them a general description of the most important terminology and rules (e.g. abilities, skills, saves, ... and D20+modifier vs. DC), then start the play. If they want to do something in game, tell them what to roll. After the first few sessions, they should have enough experience to look at a rulebook and at least understand what is going on. I used this approach before, and I would like to think that it was quite successful.

Edited to add: If using this approach, I would also suggest to give them the option to change the character after some time. They may very well have a better idea about what character they want to play after some playing time.

This is essentially what I do, minus the pregens. It seems most people coming in to the hobby have some idea of what they want to play (usually a half-elf rogue for girls and a hero out of LOTR for the guys). I help them build it, giving them suggestions (that they almost always take) and get in to the game as quickly as possible. If time permits, I'll do a quick and simple combat just so they get an idea of initiative, actions in combat etc. It has worked pretty well for me, most of the players in my group had no prior experience.

nrg89
2015-01-22, 02:37 PM
Ok, so I have turned to a more beginner friendly system and I'm making pre-gens as we speak.

Is there any other stuff I should think about when gaming with completely fresh people?

I also don't know how to feel about something I did last time. One of my players really liked to role-play and walked away in disgust when the party looted dead refugees who had died of thirst because he thought it was low not to give it back to their relatives or bury them with it. It was a very deadly savannah, so I rolled a random encounter and he was nearly eaten alive by friggin pack of cheetahs because my dice were cursed or something. I cheated and said "Um, you loot those corpses pretty quickly, right? And the nearest town is the same way your friend went, so, I don't know, is that your next stop?"
They later saved him. I think I was too nice and didn't make the world feel as threatening as it should be. The feeling of danger is a precious thing, and I think I broke it that one time. But I really, really wanted him not to sit this one out when he dived into the hobby whole heartedly.

jedipotter
2015-01-22, 06:56 PM
Is there any other stuff I should think about when gaming with completely fresh people?

In general, give them a break. Give them at least three shots to remember a rule.



I also don't know how to feel about something I did last time. One of my players really liked to role-play and walked away in disgust when the party looted dead refugees who had died of thirst because he thought it was low not to give it back to their relatives or bury them with it.

Keep the game a super hard core black and white as possible. This is best for new players. You want to avoid all the gray. Evil is evil and good is good.



It was a very deadly savannah, so I rolled a random encounter and he was nearly eaten alive by friggin pack of cheetahs because my dice were cursed or something.

Um...don't do that. You want to have him encounter a priest that tells him about the ''Way of the Lost'', the Good Philosophy where items are not owned by people, but are free to be used by anyone in need.



They later saved him. I think I was too nice and didn't make the world feel as threatening as it should be. The feeling of danger is a precious thing, and I think I broke it that one time. But I really, really wanted him not to sit this one out when he dived into the hobby whole heartedly.

You don't really want to ''threaten'' new players much. The best way to scare them is to show them danger by the older players.