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Fax Celestis
2007-04-02, 11:26 PM
That's right. Can you break the speed of sound with a L20 character? The best I've been able to do is hit a landspeed of 2400'.

Which, while impressive, doesn't pass the 8000' in one round required to break the speed of sound.

Here's how far I've gotten:

Xeph Cleric 2/Ardent 1/Psychic Warrior 4/Monk 13. Using a Dorje of Schism and manifesting Hustle twice, while including the Run feat, double move, the Celerity domain, the Freedom mantle, Psionic Fly, and Xeph burst:

60' (psionic fly) + 10' (Freedom mantle) + 10' (Celerity domain) +40' (Monk) + 30' (Xeph burst) = 150'.

Double move = 300'.
Hustle: +150'.
Schismed Hustle: +150'.
Total: 600'

Run (x6 landspeed) = 2400' in one round.

Beat that!

Hamster_Ninja
2007-04-02, 11:32 PM
One thought to consider would be to do something like the above during a time stop- 1d4+1 X the above speed, so atleast double it in one round.

Emperor Tippy
2007-04-02, 11:32 PM
The WotC character optimization boards did this a while back. I think some guy got a monk over the speed of sound.

Kreistor
2007-04-02, 11:47 PM
Hustle does not increase your speed (which is defined as one move action), and therefore is not affected by the Run multiplier.

Thus, with the above, you'd get...

Distance moved = 6x(150)+150+150 = 1200'

Not 2400'.

Fizban
2007-04-02, 11:52 PM
I wonder how much damage breaking the sound barrier deals?

Innis Cabal
2007-04-02, 11:53 PM
20d6 points of sonic damage

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-02, 11:57 PM
You might not be able to break the speed of sound yourself, but there's a build circling around the WotC COptimisation board which can fire an arrow 18 and a half miles(as much as a WW2 Howitzer!) in a single round.


You know you qualify as artillery when you need Divination spells rather than Spot checks to find you're target.

Fizban
2007-04-03, 12:02 AM
Not that there's an epic feat that already lets you shoot to [anywhere in line of sight]......oh wait.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-04-03, 12:05 AM
Are you kidding? That's so easy.

Just use a whip. Every time you crack it, that noise is the sound barrier breaking. So, a bard could do it easily at level 1.

Or do you mean movement speed :D

Caduceus
2007-04-03, 12:09 AM
Dash is a feat from Complete Warrior that adds 5 ft. to your base speed in light or no armor. Speed of Thought would help, too.

Solo
2007-04-03, 01:42 AM
Use Wish. Be happy.

Kantolin
2007-04-03, 01:55 AM
Becoming a Cheetah may help more than being a Xeph ^_^

JaronK
2007-04-03, 02:00 AM
Start as an Air Human, giving you a fly speed of 100' (Perfect). Then go Monk. That'll at least get you moving pretty darn quick...

JaronK

Eighth_Seraph
2007-04-03, 02:10 AM
Do monk levels apply to Fly speed?

Kreistor
2007-04-03, 02:18 AM
I don't see anything that specifically limits Speed to being ground based only. Barbarian Fast Movement specifies ground-based movement, but Monk does not, and it does not reference the same ability of the Barbarian.

Rockphed
2007-04-03, 02:30 AM
Can you run while Psionic Flying? And doesn't run only increase your run speed to 5 times normal?

Jalil
2007-04-03, 04:26 AM
Easy. By RAW, that is. Take leadership. Or convince a town to help you with the following plan:

1) Get 532 friends
2) Everyone starts to grapple.
3) Taking turns, fail your grapple check, allowing one person to move the mob half speed in a direction.
4) Repeat Step 3 532 times.
5) Take 20d6 sonic damage apiece.

Without abusing RAW, I haven't a clue.

Draak_Grafula
2007-04-03, 04:52 AM
Easy. By RAW, that is. Take leadership. Or convince a town to help you with the following plan:

1) Get 532 friends
2) Everyone starts to grapple.
3) Taking turns, fail your grapple check, allowing one person to move the mob half speed in a direction.
4) Repeat Step 3 532 times.
5) Take 20d6 sonic damage apiece.

Without abusing RAW, I haven't a clue.
I thought there was a max at the number of creatures in a grapple. Or is that a max to the number of creatures grappeling a single creature? In that case you can each friend can grapple the next.

Demented
2007-04-03, 04:59 AM
According to RAW, does sound even have a speed?
If for game purposes it's instantaneous, breaking the speed of sound may be difficult...

Nerd-o-rama
2007-04-03, 05:03 AM
Speed 6 or Flight 6. Doable at any PL, if you want to spend the points.

Oh wait, you mean D&D. Well, without counting faster-than-light teleportation effects, I'm not really sure.

Khantalas
2007-04-03, 05:05 AM
Or, just get Flight 1 and Space Flight 1. You'll fly at the speed of light if you reach the space.

Bah! Mutants and Masterminds is taking over my mind!

Nerd-o-rama
2007-04-03, 05:17 AM
Good. Now answer my bloody PM.

If we're going for all movement types, I believe swimming 7 will accomplish the same thing - a base move of 5000 ft, so a double move of more than 8000. Unless...does M&M have a Run move? One that applies to Power-based movement?

Unless I'm misreading and Swimming progresses on the mph scale, in which case you need Swimming 8.

Khantalas
2007-04-03, 05:21 AM
All-out movement. You move at four times your speed, but you lose dodge bonuses to your defense.

EDIT: Wait... What PM?

Nerd-o-rama
2007-04-03, 05:31 AM
The one I sent you last week, with a rough draft of my character sheet and questions about the feasibility of concealing a magical sword while in non-superheroic garb. If you didn't get it, I can re-send.

As much as I hate to derail this thread further, I have reason not to trust the reliability of the PM system now.

Green Bean
2007-04-03, 06:38 AM
All right, the catgirls are begging me not to do this, but I’ll do it anyways.

Wizard 20 with a metamagic rod of maximize casts Time Stop

Now, according to the spell description, you are accelerated to the point where no one can see you (i.e. no blurred images or anything like that). This means that the entirety of the spell’s duration must take place faster than the eye’s ‘refresh rate’. Now, according to Google the refresh rate is approximately 60 ‘frames per second’. This means that at the very least, the whole spell takes 0.016666 (repeating) seconds from start to finish.

Now, if the wizard casts the spell and then moves 30ft the first round, then runs 60ft for the next three rounds, he will have gone a grand total of 210ft total.

Our wizard has just run 210ft in 0.016666 (repeating) seonds. Let’s multiply that out.

210ft in 0.01666 seconds= 12600ft per second
12600ft per second= 75600ft per round

Now, our wizardly friend only hits this speed for an instant, but he hits it.

Now help me bury all of these catgirls before they start to smell :smallbiggrin:

Nerd-o-rama
2007-04-03, 06:43 AM
Actually, if he ran, it'd be 150 feet per round, assuming he took no speed-boosting feats and wasn't hasted. And for that matter, you can still fit in Barb 2 for fast movement and still be able to cast Time Stop.

So yeah, as usual, the Wizard wins.

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-03, 07:28 AM
I don't see anything that specifically limits Speed to being ground based only. Barbarian Fast Movement specifies ground-based movement, but Monk does not, and it does not reference the same ability of the Barbarian.

Barbarian's Fast Movement applies to "base land speed" though, so it should work for anything with similar wording to "fly speed equal to twice his base land speed"(Half-Fey, for example).

Jalil
2007-04-03, 07:36 AM
Do I smell another Godwin's Law coming on?

As any Thread grows longer, the probability of someone saying a Wizard is better able to do it approaches one.

Reductio ad Veneficus

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-03, 07:41 AM
Reductio ad Vancium :P

martyboy74
2007-04-03, 07:46 AM
Do I smell another Godwin's Law coming on?

As any Thread grows longer, the probability of someone saying a Wizard is better able to do it approaches one.

Reductio ad Veneficus


Unfortunately, "A wizard can do it better" is usually the right answer.

Darrin
2007-04-03, 07:53 AM
That's right. Can you break the speed of sound with a L20 character?


In Star Wars D20, it's fairly easy to break the sound barrier... a level 11 Jedi can do it with I think three feats.

At room temperature/sea level, the speed of sound is around 344 meters/second. This works out to be around 6780 ft/round (not 8000). So essentially you start with a race with a base movement of 40' (or 12m in SW D20, a droid will work), pick up Run for movement x5, Heroic Surge for an extra move action, and then pick up Knight Speed (movement x30) at level 11.

40' x 5 x 30 = 6000 ft by running as a full-round action. Another move action means 6000 + 1200 (40 x 30) = 7200 ft/round. Add "Dash" or levels of monk for more speed if you need it.

There's a thread somewhere on the WotC boards that goes into more detail, but I can't find it at the moment.

In D&D 3.x, it's not quite so simple, but doable if you use the "Cheetah's Speed" feat from Complete Divine for movement x10 and the spell "Fly like an Arrow" from Dragon #308 for another x10. With a x20 speed multiplier, you just need to find something with a fly speed around 340'. Most builds polymorph/shapechange into a young white dragon (200' fly speed) and then add movement buffs (monk levels, haste, fast movement, feats like Dash, etc.).

Here's a thread with some ideas on really obscene speeds:

http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-472241.html



The best I've been able to do is hit a landspeed of 2400'.

Xeph Cleric 2/Ardent 1/Psychic Warrior 4/Monk 13. Using a Dorje of Schism and manifesting Hustle twice, while including the Run feat, double move, the Celerity domain, the Freedom mantle, Psionic Fly, and Xeph burst:

60' (psionic fly) + 10' (Freedom mantle) + 10' (Celerity domain) +40' (Monk) + 30' (Xeph burst) = 150'.

Double move = 300'.
Hustle: +150'.
Schismed Hustle: +150'.
Total: 600'

Run (x6 landspeed) = 2400' in one round.

Beat that!

Running is a full-round action, so you can't double-move, and the multiplier is x5 (although how you got 2400 with 600 x 6 is a bit of a mystery). Your actual speed while running would be... 750' + 300' = 1050'. While substituting in 5 levels of Druid could get you Cheetah's Speed for x10, the charge action required is incompatible with the full-round action required for running. Charging with Cheetah's Speed would get you to 1500', and your two hustles would bump that to 1800' (I think the x10 only applies to the charge action).

Now, if all this were flying (and Psionic Fly seems to suggest it is), you could add Fly Like an Arrow for 18,000 ft/round... add Haste and you can probably crack Mach 3.

Fax Celestis
2007-04-03, 09:41 AM
Man, I need to stop doing this stuff when I'm exhausted. I make all kinds of mistakes.

Caduceus
2007-04-03, 09:52 AM
Simply take the Endurance feat. It'll take longer for you to become fatigued, and therefore longer still before you are exhausted.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-03, 10:11 AM
Being a cheetah gets you up 10x your normal speed.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-04-03, 11:15 AM
Two characters with 70 sleight of hand (hard but doable) can use a free action to move another character 10' (to 'hide' them). If they keep using that on each other they can travel at infinite speed.

(The RAW tell us that there is a 'sensible' number of free actions that a character can take, but since when did we need to be sensible :smallbiggrin: ?)

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-03, 11:37 AM
Alright, shall we set up a board challenge for Sleight of Hand by ECL20? :P

martyboy74
2007-04-03, 11:40 AM
Alright, shall we set up a board challenge for Sleight of Hand by ECL20? :P

You can just blow all your cash for Gloves of Slight of Hand +87 by that level. Not efficient, or cheap, but it works.

Penguinizer
2007-04-03, 11:45 AM
What about millions of commoners readying and passing a gnome around the world in a single round.

Indon
2007-04-03, 12:12 PM
Wizard 20 with a metamagic rod of maximize casts Time Stop


If you're going to permit Time Stop in the challenge, then a Monk 16 Rogue 4 with a scroll of Time Stop (can Time Stop be a scroll?) would cover more distance than that, probably even without needing to maximize it.

Before epic spells, I'm pretty sure any spell can be duplicated with UMD (assuming money is no issue, of course), and a monk/rogue runs faster than a Wizard.

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-03, 12:13 PM
You can just blow all your cash for Gloves of Slight of Hand +87 by that level. Not efficient, or cheap, but it works.

Except for that pesky limit on how much of your wealth should be in one item, custom items being up to DM choice, and I think any item giving more than like +30 to a skill is considered epic.

Penguinizer
2007-04-03, 12:15 PM
With enough people an object can be passed around a lenght of the line of people in a single round.

Indon
2007-04-03, 12:15 PM
Well, magical item power is supposedly limited by the caster level of the individual casting, right? I don't think it's outlined how +skill items would be so limited, though.

the_tick_rules
2007-04-03, 12:49 PM
hey, think of the money you'll save of not having to take care of horses.

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-03, 12:52 PM
What about millions of commoners readying and passing a gnome around the world in a single round.I'm of the opinion that using this trick doesn't actually accelerate the object in the conventional way. Rather, the result is much like the Star Trek warp drive, which allows interstellar distances to be covered without the usual time-frame difference which results from relativistic speeds.

Thus when you do the commoner-line thing, the object travels from point A to B within 6 seconds, but never actually moves faster than the normal speed of being passed from hand to hand. It works because of incomprehensible space-time magic. Point being, the object does not break the sound barrier.

No boom.

Not to mention, RAW loopholes like that are inelegant. It's like saying "well, Pun-Pun can move that fast!"

Penguinizer
2007-04-03, 01:22 PM
Heh, "Ludicrous speed. GO!"

Couldnt resist.

martyboy74
2007-04-03, 01:29 PM
Except for that pesky limit on how much of your wealth should be in one item, custom items being up to DM choice, and I think any item giving more than like +30 to a skill is considered epic.
They're not so much rules as they are guidelines (excluding the epic item one. Please show me where the +30 rule is, I can't find it.).

Illiterate Scribe
2007-04-03, 02:22 PM
Possible Dex by lvl 20 - (assuming no LA - Catfolk, with +4 Dex, would be nice)

18 + 2 (halfling) + 5 (levels) + 5 (tome) + 6 (gloves) = 36 (+13 to SoH)

Maxed out skill - + 23

Taking 10 - +10

Hat of sleight of hand + 30 (the rule about epic is here http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/basics.htm)

Masterwork tools - +2

5 ranks in bluff - +2

Deft hands - +2

23+13+10+30+2+2+2 = 82.

We can do this even under pressure.

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-03, 02:30 PM
They're not so much rules as they are guidelines (excluding the epic item one. Please show me where the +30 rule is, I can't find it.).

I can't find the +30 thing is either(mostly because Epic apparently doesn't give 2 hoots about anything granting +s to skills). However, it is entirely DM fiat as to whether you're allowed to create custom Magic Items(see: Ring of True Strike).

However, let's say you're right, and you can create a ring which grants you +80 to Sleight of Hand. Based on what I saw at the back of the DMG, doubling the bonus makes the item cost quadruple. So a Ring of Nimble Fingers grants you a +5 competence bonus to Sleight of Hand and costs 2500 gold. An "Improved" version gives +10 and costs 10k.

10=10,000
20=40,000
40=160,000
80=640,000

Out of a possible 760,000. Not cheap or efficient? It's downright ridiculous. The DM is in fact, entirely within his rights(see first paragraph) to say "You fail. The item is too powerful for you to make."

Edit: Oh yes. Check the link. You can't make anything whose market price goes over 200k after deducting certain various costs.


Possible Dex by lvl 20 - (assuming no LA - Catfolk, with +4 Dex, would be nice)

18 + 2 (halfling) + 5 (levels) + 5 (tome) + 6 (gloves) = 36 (+13 to SoH)

Maxed out skill - + 23

Taking 10 - +10

Hat of sleight of hand + 30 (the rule about epic is here http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/basics.htm)

Masterwork tools - +2

5 ranks in bluff - +2

Deft hands - +2

23+13+10+30+2+2+2 = 82.

We can do this even under pressure.

Wait a sec. Can you actually Take 10 when doing something as part of a Free Action? It's my understanding that Take X means that you take that many times the amount of time to do something. Granted, 10*0=0, but still...

Edit: Ahh. Take 20 actually requires you to spend the time. You still can't Take 10 while "under pressure".


When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10.

Edit: Masterwork tools? For Sleight of Hand? That'll be pretty hard to convince the DM. :P

Illiterate Scribe
2007-04-03, 02:35 PM
Sorry, forgot to remove taking 10 - synergy + deft hands means we don't need it any more.

martyboy74
2007-04-03, 02:43 PM
Edit: Oh yes. Check the link. You can't make anything whose market price goes over 200k after deducting certain various costs.

Hmm. I guess you're right. The maximum tat you can make, while remaining under 200K is +44. Unfortunatly, the DMG doesn't say if you can create items that give +s to skill that aren't compentence. Damn, we actualy need the character now.

Kyace
2007-04-03, 02:46 PM
What are masterwork tools for sleight of hand?

Illiterate Scribe
2007-04-03, 02:48 PM
Snazzy gloves? Sticky pads on the end of your fingers? Anyway, forget the DM here, for though I walk in the valley of common sense scrutiny, the RAW is my shield!

Twisted.Fate
2007-04-03, 03:52 PM
Hey Fax, you forgot the Quick trait from Unearthed Arcana. +10 to movement speeds, -1 HP/HD.

Arbitrarity
2007-04-03, 07:25 PM
Hey, 20 rogue can take 10!

Skill mastery!

83, skill focus :D.

Kel_Arath
2007-04-03, 07:35 PM
Are you kidding? That's so easy.

Just use a whip. Every time you crack it, that noise is the sound barrier breaking. So, a bard could do it easily at level 1.

Or do you mean movement speed :D
first of all, high five scro.
secondly, dimension door? teleport?
and how far apart are planes, cause i could do this all day..

Fax Celestis
2007-04-03, 07:47 PM
first of all, high five scro.
secondly, dimension door? teleport?
and how far apart are planes, cause i could do this all day..

The point is to break the speed of sound via movement, not teleportation.

brian c
2007-04-03, 08:00 PM
Hey Fax, you forgot the Quick trait from Unearthed Arcana. +10 to movement speeds, -1 HP/HD.

I'm looking at ground speeds only:

A level 20 Monk with Run, Dash and the Quick trait would have a base speed of 105ft, running for 525ft in a round = 5250ft/minute = 59.7 miles/hour. That same character Hasted would have a base speed of 135ft, funning for 675ft/round, thats 6750/minute = 76.7 mph.

Now let's look at a Druid 6/Monk 14 (or for that matter, Ranger 6/Monk 14 with the ranger wildshape variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger)). With the ability to Wildshape you can take Cheetah's Speed; the Monk 14 base speed (plus Dash and the Quick trait) is 85ft; use the 10x sprint to move 850ft/round, 8500ft/minute = 96.6 mph. Same character Hasted would have a 115ft speed, sprint for 1150ft/round = 11500ft/min = 130.7 mph.

Using just the Ranger wildshape variant, which also grants Fast Movement as a Barbarian, a level 6 Ranger with Quick, Dash, Cheetah's Speed and Hasted has a speed of 85ft per round, which as above is 96.6 mph. Pretty fast for only level 6.


As an addendum to this, I was reading this thread at work earlier and it made me wonder at what point a D&D character can be a world-class sprinter. The current world record for the 100m dash is 9.77 seconds. I forget the name of the writer, but there's an article (that was discussed on this board recently) that claimed that in D&D, world-class athletes are about level 5.

So:

100 meters = 330 feet (rounded to the nearest 10; its actually 328.08). To run the 100m in 10 seconds requires a speed of 33ft/second, which is 33*6 = 198 per D&D round. So if you can run 200ft in a round, that's around the world record time in the 100m dash. Assume that a world-class sprinter will have the Dash and Run feats, and the Quick trait. That's a total base speed of 45ft for Humans, running for 225ft/round at level 1. Obviously D&D rules and abilities for running don't quite accurately model the real world, although it's worth mentioning that there's no way to further increase movement speed for this NPC without taking PC class levels (if there is, let me know). Using only Core material, the best a NPC can do is 150ft/round = 13.2 seconds in the 100m dash, which is a decent time for a regular person.

Any of the high-speed builds I've mentioned above can easily crack 200ft/round; a monk does it without Run or Dash at level 6, with Run by level 2, with Quick and Run at level 1. Barbarian with Run goes 200ft/round at level 1.

Indon
2007-04-03, 08:06 PM
I'm not sure Haste stacks with Monk speed. Both are enhancement bonuses, aren't they?

Annarrkkii
2007-04-03, 08:20 PM
Well, as per the SRD, Boots of Striding And Springing cost 5,500 gp. They have a +5 to Jump, which, according to the pricing table in the DMG, is worth 2500 gp on its own, and multiple abilities is worth a price increase of 1.5 times. When you divide the 5,500 gp pricing by 1.5, you get 3,167 gp. When you subtract the 2,500 gp, you get 667 gp. Meaning that +10 to speed is worth about 670 gp. Which is... price squared times 6 or 7, or perhaps 60 times bonus.

For confirmation, the Horseshoes of Speed are a +30 to speed, and are worth 3,000 gp. So... what can we conclude? That's a clean 100 x bonus ration, there, but the alternative speed increase items confuse the issue. Boots of S+S are the only other ones. If we round the Boots up to 6000 gp, we can knock it back to 4,000 gp, minus 2,500 gp, means the 10 ft.-bonus is 1,500 gp.

Any verdict? If we could nail down a pricing for it, a supersonic pair of boots would be easy enough to build up.

MaxKaladin
2007-04-04, 09:58 AM
I'm pretty sure it was a non-WotC 3rd party book, but I remember seeing a feat that changes run speed to x6 instead of x5. I think it was in the Malhavoc "Book of Roguish Luck".

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-04, 10:56 AM
Real World Runners can do 5 kilometres(~3 miles) in just over 12 minutes I think. For comparison, my country's military requires anyone under 25 to be able to do 2.4 kilometres(~1.5 miles) in 12 and a half minutes to be considered "Physically Fit".

Maybe some of those Ethiopians have levels in Barbarian... O_o

I think for regular weight-lifting, records stand around half a ton(1,100 lbs) or more. Guiness world record for dead-lift is probably in the vicinity of 800 kg(or at least, should soon break 3/4 ton. My books are old.).

Annarrkkii
2007-04-04, 12:35 PM
...Real World Runners are in great shape if they're getting down to 12. The average High School star runs a 14 or 15 in a 5k. I, personally, do a mere 19 or so.

But yes, the record for sustained velocity by a human is ~10 m/s. Which is ridiculously fast, and was only sustained for a short period of time during a sprint. The average character, lacking the Run feat and unarmored, can do 120 ft. in 6 seconds, which is 20 ft./s, or ~6.1 m/s. To beat Johnson, I'm sad to say, all you have to do is be a 1st-level barbarian with the Run feat. You can clear 200 ft. in one round, which adds up to 33.33 ft/s, or 10.16 m/s. So we're already dealing with superhuman speed coming from run-of-the-mill adventurers as it is.

In fact, just for giggles, at 1st level, a human Barbarian with Run and Dash, can sustained a speed of 11.43 m/s for as long as he can continue running. Which is absolutely ludicrous. Slap on an Expeditious Retreat spell, and, at first level, you're already well into the realm of fiction. To just keep stacking on speed is overkill, but certainly fun.

Fax Celestis
2007-04-04, 12:48 PM
Xeph Cleric 1/Barbarian 1 with the Celerity domain, Run, and Dash (which requires a flaw), the Quick trait, and casting Expeditious Retreat on himself has a landspeed of 30 (Xeph) + 10 (Barbarian) + 10 (Xeph burst) + 10 (Celerity) + 5 (Dash) + 10 (Quick) + 30 (Expeditious Retreat) = 105' per round. 210' with a double move. 525' on a Run action. At Level 2.

Annarrkkii
2007-04-04, 01:13 PM
That's a perfectly respectable 27 m/s.

But only 60 mph, really. Peregrine falcon leaves him in the dust, and a sailfish and cheetah are right there with him.

Fax Celestis
2007-04-04, 01:26 PM
Anthropomorphic Cheetah with the above Runs at a speed of 950', though the LA/RHD is beyond me at the moment since I am AFB.

Further, one could take a 1-level dip into Ardent to get the Freedom mantle for an additional 10' bonus. Xeph Clr 1/Brb 1/Ard 1: total landspeed: 115', 230' on double move, 575' on run @ ECL 3. Cheetah Clr 1/Brb 1/Ard 1: total landspeed: 105', 210' on double move, 1050' on run @ ECL 4 (?).

I could be off on the Anthropomorphic changes, though, since I don't have it in front of me.

brian c
2007-04-04, 01:28 PM
I don't want to sound rude, but you guys might want to flip back a page; I worked out a bunch of this stuff earlier (how many mph different builds give, at what point you can break records in the 100m dash, which corresponds to top velocity)

Fax Celestis
2007-04-04, 01:30 PM
I don't want to sound rude, but you guys might want to flip back a page; I worked out a bunch of this stuff earlier (how many mph different builds give, at what point you can break records in the 100m dash, which corresponds to top velocity)

Oh, I know.

Black Mage
2007-04-04, 01:57 PM
They're not so much rules as they are guidelines (excluding the epic item one. Please show me where the +30 rule is, I can't find it.).

I believe things like that require you to actually have that many ranks in the skill in order to make it. Meaning if you wanted gloves that grant a +87 to sleight of hand, the creator of the item needs to be level 84 and have max ranks in the skill.

Arbitrarity
2007-04-04, 04:02 PM
Creating Wondrous Items
To create a wondrous item, a character usually needs some sort of equipment or tools to work on the item. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the item itself or the pieces of the item to be assembled. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the item. Wondrous item costs are difficult to formularize. Refer to Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Price Values and use the item prices in the item descriptions as a guideline. Creating an item costs half the market value listed.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the item, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require, nor are any XP costs inherent in a prerequisite spell incurred in the creation of the item. The act of working on the item triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the item’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

Creating some items may entail other prerequisites beyond or other than spellcasting. See the individual descriptions for details.

Crafting a wondrous item requires one day for each 1,000 gp of the base price.

Item Creation Feat Required
Craft Wondrous Item.


So no. Not at all. That's a specific. Also...


Epic Magic Items
While not truly an artifact, the epic magic item is a creation of such power that it surpasses other magic items. Epic magic items are objects of great power and value. The following are typical characteristics of an epic magic item. In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item.

Grants a bonus on attacks or damage greater than +5.
Grants an enhancement bonus to armor higher than +5.
Has a special ability with a market price modifier greater than +5.
Grants an armor bonus of greater than +10 (not including magic armor’s enhancement bonus).
Grants a natural armor, deflection, or resistance bonus greater than +5.
Grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than +6.
Grants an enhancement bonus on a skill check greater than +30.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mimics a spell of an effective level higher than 9th.
Has a caster level above 20th.
Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items.
An epic magic item that grants a bonus beyond those allowed for normal magic items has a higher market price than indicated by the formulas for non-epic items.



So, let us go.

30 from item,
10 from skill mastery taking 10
3 from skill focus
2 from deft hands
2 synergy
23 ranks,
+13 dex modifier
+2, MW tools.
+85 total. Damn. Sec. 5... more...

Ok, cheese time. Half elf paragon + human paragon + complimentary insight + flexible mind + born under the new moon. Throw in an admiral's bicorne.

Total, +1 more from dex (was a halfling, changed to half elf for the paragon, but +4 from the paragons anyway), +1 from extra synergy, +2 from flexible mind, and + 1 from born under the new moon, +2 from the bicorne!

92!

Ahhh. wizards boards.


The same 'physics' rules which allow the Hulking Hurler to exist also govern a few other optimizable attributes: among those attributes is speed.

So, how fast can you go, and how much damage do you think youd do if you ran into something?

I went with a somewhat simple premise for my build, but people have postulated about abusing Time Stop, Celerity, etc. to gain large numbers of move actions in the same time span.

Another interesting possibility is abusing conservation of momentum, which could result in speeds over 1,000,000Mph (and a very very dead Druid in the form of a Tiny fey).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Build additions by Valgaav

CDrd 5 Clr 3 wiz 3 Mystic Theurge 4 Master of Many Forms 4
Human/flawed
Alertness, endurance, speed of thought, dash, air heritage, cheetah's speed, dragon magic, dragon wildshape
Domains: Sky and one other
Shape into Young White Dragon
200ft
+30 for Haste
+5 for Dash (Complete Warrior)
+10 for Speed of Thought (XPH)
+30 for Cloud Wings
+30 for Aerial Alacrity(Races of Wild)
+30 for Air Heritage(Planar Handbook)
+5 for Sky domain (Races of Wild)
340ft
x10 for Cheetah's Speed (Complete Divine)
x10 for Fly like an Arrow (Dragon 308)
34,000ft
+340 for Hustle(XPH)
34,340ft
Total distance 34,340 ft
Time 6 seconds
Speed: 3,902 MPH

Annarrkkii
2007-04-04, 07:31 PM
Anyway to do that without abusing the druid class even further than it already is? I don't think we were looking for ANOTHER way to break the druid here.

Inyssius Tor
2007-04-04, 07:44 PM
We're trying to break the speed of sound on foot. The main competitor is a flying anthropomorpic cheetah.


You're complaining about druid cheese?

Annarrkkii
2007-04-04, 08:06 PM
Granted, but it would be nowhere near possible without the druidage. The others are marginally valid for a standard player character.

Fax Celestis
2007-04-04, 08:59 PM
We're trying to break the speed of sound on foot. The main competitor is a flying anthropomorpic cheetah.

Excuse me. I have to go die laughing now.

JaronK
2007-04-04, 09:03 PM
I imagine the best way to do this is a Druid/Planar Shepard. One of their potencial abilities is a permanent 10X acceleration for them and everyone around them. Wild shape into something fast and go nuts. Feel free to cast the level 1 spell that adds 10' to your speed if you like.

JaronK

Fax Celestis
2007-04-04, 09:05 PM
Alright, now that everyone's offered the cheese, can we break the speed of sound without using the Druid, Wild Shape, Polymorph, or Planar Shepherd?

brian c
2007-04-04, 10:22 PM
Well, let's see what we've got fitting Fax's criteria:

Dash (feat; untyped): +5 ft
Quick (trait; untyped): +10 ft
Monk (enhancement): increases to max of +60 ft at 20th level - affects all modes of movement (?)
Barbarian (untyped): +10 ft
Run (feat): move 5x/round instead of 4x
Expeditious Retreat (spell; enhancement): +30 ft
Haste (spell; enhancement): +30 ft
Longstrider (spell; enhancement): +10 ft
Fly (spell): gives flight speed of 60 ft


That's all I can get right now. The max would be a level 20 monk, with Quick, Run, Dash, and with Fly cast on them. 60 + 60 + 10 + 5 = 135ft, 675 when running. I made a mistake on my previous post; I didn't realize Monk speed and Haste were the same type of bonus and thus do not stack.

Fizban
2007-04-04, 10:39 PM
My question is: what's the cheapest way to get a cheetah's sprint ability? Were-cheetah? Anthro-cheetah? Cheetah's speed feat? Obscure splatbook spell?

Cause x10 is the highest multiplier you're gonna find, even if you boost run to x6.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-04, 10:44 PM
Alright, now that everyone's offered the cheese, can we break the speed of sound without using the Druid, Wild Shape, Polymorph, or Planar Shepherd?

Aren't you asking the impossible?

"Alright, could you guys please make me a grilled cheese sandwhich, without cheese? And get it right this time; A GRILLED CHEESE SANDWHICH, NO CHEESE."

Fax Celestis
2007-04-04, 10:45 PM
Aren't you asking the impossible?

"Alright, could you guys please make me a grilled cheese sandwhich, without cheese? And get it right this time; A GRILLED CHEESE SANDWHICH, NO CHEESE."

Hey, I got it over 1500' without any of that cheese and without the cheetah either. I'm sure it can be done.

Reinboom
2007-04-04, 11:06 PM
May I recommend you end the move with a jump?
I mean, 135 ft movement (as shown by brian c), this means, +40 bonus to jump. 23 ranks in jump.
18 str base, +2 half orc, +5 tomes, +6 item, +5 levels = 36 str, 13 mod
36 + 40 = 76 and a +30 ability item, 106
That gives you a long jump distance of 105 or 115 with an average ten. This means a 50.5 or a 55.5 foot high arc. Since the jump is only limited by the distance you cover and not the actual distance, this means that the arc would be calculated into this.

Fizban
2007-04-05, 01:13 AM
Except if you run out of movement in midair, you just end the round in midair, unless they changed something when I wasn't looking. It's even in an OotS strip.

Reinboom
2007-04-05, 01:28 AM
That doesn't matter though. It's the whole, you still move further by going at an arc than in a straight line. Given the jump rules cover how much distance you cross, not the exact total distance, this means that traveling at an arc will provide more movement than going in a straight line.
Even though you are spanning the same amount of distance, you are moving more and thus you have to move faster.
Think of it as somebody running over a hill than through the tunnel below it. The tunnel below it is a faster route, sure, but if the rules say you get over the hill in the same amount of time, and the hill is the longer route, you are thus covering more distance in the same amount of time.

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-05, 01:49 AM
Peregrine Runner gets Fast Movement as a Barbarian(stacks too. You might need to be Goliath, don't remember. Maybe just high Climb skill.), as does Wildrunner(needs to be elven, might be enhancement bonus, like Dhervish, Monk and Scout). If you can manage to squeeze the relevant levels into ECL 20(dropping Wildrunner in favour of Catfolk, for example), you could probably make it.

Or you can just look here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=662842) and look under Speed Increase.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-05, 01:53 AM
Are there any ways to further improve your speed by size increase?

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-05, 02:21 AM
Are there any ways to further improve your speed by size increase?

None that I know of. :/

Now, my attempt: Half-fey grants Good Maneouvrability Flight at base land speed*2. LA+2(as of Fiend Folio errata) Note that levels are not given in order. Some room may need to be "filled in" with levels that don't do anything.

Barbarian 1, Berserk 1, Peregrine Runner 5, Cleric 1(with Celerity Domain) for +40'. Dash for another 5'. Expeditious Retreat via Celerity Domain for another +30'.

So far, we have 75' on top of whatever base race. Presuming 30' base, this gives us 105'/move action, 210' flying. Flightspeed over 2 move actions= 70'/second, 252000' an hour, or about 47 miles/hour.

If we tack on the Fangshields substitution level for Barbarian 3, this ups it to 230' flying. 276000' an hour, 52 miles/hour.

If Run applies to flying, then this becomes 840'(920' with Fangshields sub level) a round, 504000' an hour(552000 with Fangshields level), 95 miles/hour(104 miles/hour with sub).

This is still only a little over 0.25 Mach.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-05, 02:26 AM
From the srd:
Speed Of Thought [Psionic]

The energy of your mind energizes the alacrity of your body.
Prerequisite

Wis 13.
Benefit

As long as you are psionically focused and not wearing heavy armor, you gain an insight bonus to your speed of 10 feet.

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-05, 02:30 AM
From what I calculated above, every 5' of movement speed is worth about 4.5 miles an hour to your effective speed. Don't expect it to work for your Overland speed. :)

Tacking Speed of Thought onto the above, it's 100-110 miles an hour on our half-fey Catgirl. :P

Fizban
2007-04-05, 04:10 AM
That doesn't matter though. It's the whole, you still move further by going at an arc than in a straight line. Given the jump rules cover how much distance you cross, not the exact total distance, this means that traveling at an arc will provide more movement than going in a straight line.
Even though you are spanning the same amount of distance, you are moving more and thus you have to move faster.
Think of it as somebody running over a hill than through the tunnel below it. The tunnel below it is a faster route, sure, but if the rules say you get over the hill in the same amount of time, and the hill is the longer route, you are thus covering more distance in the same amount of time.
Okay, I thought you might have meant that, but it just doesn't seem like a very large increase to me. Someone wanna run the numbers? I need some sleep, if no one else has I'll do them tomorrow.

Angel of Death
2007-04-05, 04:52 AM
Unless I'm mistaken (and my DM's been shorting me) the x2 from the half-fey template is only applyed to the "base" speed of 30 because its an innate template. Therefor, since all other speed increases come after the multiplier they would not be affected.

Dareon
2007-04-05, 05:27 AM
Divine Vigor (CompWar). Divine feat, grants some HP and +10 untyped bonus to speed for Cha mod minutes.

Xeph is technically better, but you might want to look at Longstride Shifter.

Other than homebrewing (One campaign setting I'm in has two feats that each add +10 and stack, plus a PrC that gets a speed boost and later complete speed doubling while in a storm), that's all I can think of.

UglyPanda
2007-04-05, 06:38 AM
I can't remember the name, but there is an item that causes subjective gravity. There is a spell for it at the very least, so you can double your speed by adjusting gravity so that you're in a permanent dive. There is also a feat in magic of incarnum that gives you a 5 ft. speed increase per invested essentia point, but you need to be in a run for it to work. Also, is ghostwalk 3.5? That might give a speed boost if run isn't allowed to be used in midair.

Ramos
2007-04-05, 07:03 AM
The Cloud Charriot spell (Wu Jen 8) gives you a fly speed of 10 miles per minute-or 1 mile per round. That's 4000 feet per round.

Picasso007
2007-04-05, 07:05 AM
hmm, heh, let's try this...

Awakened cheetah ex-barbarian 1/cleric 1/monk 18
feats: wild talent, speed of thought, dash
traits: quick
domains: celerity

base speed: 50'
speed of thought: 10' insight
dash: 5' untyped
quick: 10' untyped
fast movement: 10' untyped
celertiy domain: 10' untyped
monk speed: 60' enhancement

50+10+5+10+10+10+60 = 155' base movement.
Cheetah's sprint: 10x movement on charge = 1550'/rd = 176 MPH

That's the faststest land speed I can come up with, m'thinks... (note that that's about a 5-second quarter mile, on par with top-fuel dragsters.)

And, let's see, getting airborne, and leaving the ECL rules firmly on the ground:
Great wyrm gold dragon Psi Warrior 4/Cleric 1/Monk 15
Celerity domain, Run feat, Speed of Thought feat

base Fly speed: 250'
speed of thought: 10' insight
celertiy domain: 10' untyped
monk speed: 50' enhancement

total fly speed: 320'/rd
Downward movement x2
Run x5
2x Hustle (using Dorje of Schism): 2 addtl movement actions
Total movement 3840'/rnd = 436 MPH.

I'll note that this build is also capable of a respectable 103 MPH on the ground and underwater as well.

Hmm... is Cheetah's Speed a spell? Tweaking the build to get that (potion? UMDing a scroll?) would probably break the sound barrier...

*imagines the sight of a Great Wyrm Gold dragon dive-bombing a target at well over Mach 1.* :cool:

UglyPanda
2007-04-05, 07:28 AM
An awakened cheetah is at least level 3, you have to drop a few levels of monk to be under 20 and a gold dragon is clearly over level 20 as is.