PDA

View Full Version : The Marshal, Revised (Simple Tier 3 Project)



Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-22, 12:35 AM
I was looking back at some of my homebrew classes recently and I noticed a trend towards complexity. I, personally, like complex classes, with lots of options and distinct abilities, and that definitely influences my 'brew. I thing that generally is a good thing in a class, but it's not the best for a new player. So here's the first in a series of classes designed to be simple to play, but still powerful and varied enough to pull their weight in a party of T3s (say, a Factotum, a Dread Necromancer, a Crusader, and a Totemist). This one relies heavily on passive, always-on effects

The Marshal

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10

The Marshal’s class skills are Balance, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, and Swim.
Skill Points at 1st level: (4 + Int modifier) x4
Skill Points at each additional level: 4 + Int modifier



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special
Aura Range


1st
+1
+2
+0
+2
Aura of Battle (Inspiration), Polearm Skill
20 ft


2nd
+2
+3
+0
+3
Call of Battle, Stand Still
20 ft


3rd
+3
+3
+1
+3
Aura of Battle (Intimidation)
20 ft


4th
+4
+4
+1
+4
Bonus Feat
30 ft


5th
+5
+4
+1
+4
Intimidating Strike
30 ft


6th
+6/+1
+5
+2
+5
Aura of Battle (Vigor)
30 ft


7th
+7/+2
+5
+2
+5
Polearm Mastery
40 ft


8th
+8/+3
+6
+2
+6
Bonus Feat
40 ft


9th
+9/+4
+6
+3
+6
Aura of Battle (Dominance)
40 ft


10th
+10/+5
+7
+3
+7
Warrior’s Punishment
50 ft


11th
+11/+6/+1
+7
+3
+7
You’ve Probably Heard of Me
50 ft


12th
+12/+7/+2
+8
+4
+8
Aura of Battle (Alacrity), Bonus Feat
50 ft


13th
+13/+8/+3
+8
+4
+8
Reactive Rush
60 ft


14th
+14/+9/+4
+9
+4
+9
My Mind is My Own
60 ft


15th
+15/+10/+5
+9
+5
+9
Aura of Battle (Halting )
60 ft


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+10
+5
+10
Bonus Feat
70 ft


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
Retributive Assault
70 ft


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11
Aura of Battle (Assault)
70 ft


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11
Eternal War
80 ft


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12
Raise Army, Bonus Feat
80 ft



Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Martial is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with all armor and shields (except tower shields). He is also proficient with all exotic reach weapons.

Polearm Skill (Ex): A Marshal is familiar with many weapons, but possesses special skill with polearms. When wielding a reach weapon, he may attack targets anywhere within reach without penalty, including adjacent targets.

Aura of Battle (Ex): A Marshal dominates the battlefield through sheer presence. All valid targets within the range indicated on the table above— including the Marshal himself—are affected by all effects below.

Inspiration: Beginning at 1st level, allies gain a morale bonus to attack, damage, and armor class equal to one half your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)
Intimidation: Beginning at 3rd level, enemies who attack an ally other than that Marshal become Shaken for one round. Targets making multiple attacks cannot be affected by this aura more than once each round, and this effect does not stack with itself or other fear effects. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
Vigor: Beginning at 6th level, allies gain a pool of temporary hit point equal to one half your level multiplied by your Charisma modifier (minimum 1/2 level). Allies regain these temporary hit points at a rate of 1/round per point of your Charisma modifier. If they leave the range of your aura, these temporary hit points are lost. If an ally who had benefited from this aura in the last minute leaves and then returns, his temporary hit points return to their previous amount.
Dominance: Beginning at 9th level, enemies move at half speed and cannot run or charge unless moving towards the Marshal. This reduction stacks with difficult terrain. In addition, they take a penalty to attacks not targeting the Marshal equal to one half your Charisma modifier. If casting a harmful spell that does not include the Marshal as a target, they take a penalty to the save DC equal to one fourth your Charisma modifier.
Alacrity: Beginning at 12th level, allies may spend a swift action to take a move action.
Halting: Beginning at 16th level, enemies may not take swift or immediate actions.
Assault: Beginning at 18th level, allies may spend a swift action to take an standard action.


Call of Battle (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, a Marshal gains a morale bonus to initiative checks and the number of attacks of opportunity he may make each round equal to his Charisma modifier.

Stand Still: At 2nd level, a Marshal gains Stand Still (XPH) as a bonus feat.

Intimidating Strike(Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, a Marshal may make a single melee or ranged attack as a standard action. If it hits, the target must make a Will save, with a DC equal to the damage dealt. If he fails, he is Shaken for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. As a fear effect, this effect is cumulative: if already shaken, the target becomes frightened. If already frightened, he becomes panicked.

Bonus Feat: At 4th level, and every subsequent 4th level, a Marshal gains a bonus feat, drawn from the list of fighter bonus feats.

Polearm Mastery (Ex): Beginning at 7th level, a Marshal may add his Charisma modifier to any combat maneuver checks he makes while wielding a reach weapon, such as trip and disarm attempts.

Warrior’s Punishment(Ex): Beginning at 10th level, a Marshal may move up to his base land speed before making an attack of opportunity, and is considered to threaten the entire area covered by his Aura of Battle.

You’ve Probably Heard of Me (Ex): No matter how far a Marshal wanders, he finds his story has spread farther still. Beginning at 11th level, all non-hostile NPCs are treated as if they were one step more friendly when interacting with the Marshal. He may add one-half his Marshal level to any Intimidate check he makes; however, he takes a penalty equal to his Marshal level to any Disguise check or similar attempt to conceal his identity.

Reactive Rush (Ex): Beginning at 13th level, a Marshal may move up to his speed as an immediate action.

My Mind is My Own (Ex): Beginning at 14th level, a Marshal automatically succeeds on saves against [Mind Affecting] abilities. An unconscious or sleeping Marshal does not gain the benefit of this ability.

Retributive Assault (Ex): Beginning at 17th level, a Marshal may take an extra turn immediately whenever an ally is reduced to zero or fewer hit points. He may not benefit from this ability more than once per round.

Eternal War (Ex): At 19th level, a Marshal becomes immune to death effects and massive damage, and gains Regeneration equal to his Charisma modifier for as long as he has a weapon in his hand. This regeneration is not bypassed by any damage type. A Marshal rendered unconscious by nonlethal damage retains hold of his weapons. To wrest a weapon from the hand on a Marshal, the opponent must take a standard action and succeed on an opposed Strength check. The Marshal may make this check despite any circumstance, such as unconsciousness, that would normally prevent him from doing so, and he gains a bonus to the check equal to his Charisma modifier.

Raise Army (Ex): The people know you, and they answer your call. By taking ten minutes to give a rousing speech, you may transform any Helpful Humanoid with hit die equal to or lower than his Charisma modifier into a Warrior of a level equal to your Charisma modifier. They possess hit die, feats, and skills as normal for a Warrior of their level, but no equipment, and are Fanatically loyal to you. They remain in this state until slain or dismissed. Humanoids with class levels may choose to retain those levels in place of Warrior levels, but still become Fanatically loyal. These followers benefit from your Aura of War as if you were a Marshal of one-half your level as long as they know (or believe) that you are on the battlefield with them.

----------

Author's Analysis: Low T3/High T4, along with the Warblade and Duskblade, but you really, really, really want one in your party. A good Charisma and a full list of social skills make him a decent party face. His class abilities (including self-dosing with his aura) keep his numbers competitive, and give him the action economy and a few of the necessary resistances for higher-level gameplay. He's good at stabbing things-- directly and indirectly-- talking to things, buffing his allies and hindering his enemies. Playability-wise, you get the full effect of your aura just by standing in the right place, making him pretty hard to screw up, while you have enough bonus feats to pick up a trick or two beyond full attacking every round.

Occidental
2015-01-22, 03:37 AM
Still a better Paladin than Vanilla!Paladin.

In all seriousness, this is exactly the kind of thing I would introduce someone to the game with. It's simple, gives them the general idea of how Ability Modifiers add on to different things, and it actually has a decent amount of passive power, that they don't need to think about. I enjoy your other classes perhaps a bit more, but I wouldn't be sad about playing this guy either.

And holy hell that capstone. The things you could do by pumping Charisma...

ben-zayb
2015-01-22, 08:18 AM
Just passing* by to clarify whether the title is really supposed to be "The Martial, Revised..." or not.

*while randomly browsing the homebrew subforum for initiator classes

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-22, 09:41 AM
In all seriousness, this is exactly the kind of thing I would introduce someone to the game with.
Thanks, dude!


Just passing* by to clarify whether the title is really supposed to be "The Martial, Revised..." or not.
Of course it is what are you talking about <shifty eyes>

nonsi
2015-01-22, 11:28 AM
Simple is good, but you went too far with Aura of Battle.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-22, 11:39 AM
Simple is good, but you went too far with Aura of Battle.
As in "too simple" or "too powerful?" (And if so, what parts are problematic?)

Seerow
2015-01-22, 11:47 AM
As in "too simple" or "too powerful?" (And if so, what parts are problematic?)

Probably too powerful. It is a lot of benefits to gain at all at once. Particularly Halting aura (no save permastagger if even on the same battlefield as the Marshal). I'd say Assault is over the top as well, but as a level 20 ability I can't bring myself to care too much.

Also Punishment doesn't feel much like an Aura, and seems really out of place from the others.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-22, 05:35 PM
Probably too powerful. It is a lot of benefits to gain at all at once. Particularly Halting aura (no save permastagger if even on the same battlefield as the Marshal). I'd say Assault is over the top as well, but as a level 20 ability I can't bring myself to care too much.

Also Punishment doesn't feel much like an Aura, and seems really out of place from the others.
Hmm. So neuter Halting, replace Punishment, and... hmm. Let you project either beneficial or baneful auras, but not both? One beneficial and one baneful at a time? One at a time, period? Alternately, how much does it need to be neutered to keep everything at once? I'd like to keep the class as minimal-input as possible, and it would be nice for a new player not to have to worry about bonuses like Vigor and Inspiration turning on and off...

Deepbluediver
2015-01-22, 06:41 PM
I can tell you the same thing I told Seerow in HIS Marshall fix- I like the idea of special abilities or actions that aren't auras. When I was looking for a way to combine the Fighter and the Marshall into one, more suitable class, I called them special tactics, and they included things like being able to swap yourself with an ally, interrupting skill checks, spells, and attacks at range, a sonic Fus-roh-dah style shout, and making the Dungeoncrasher bonuses part of the base class options, without sacrificing feats.

It might not be in the flavor of what you are going for, but it's something that I liked and was considering. Punishment, and other active abilities like it would fit much better as something like that than as an aura.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-22, 07:14 PM
I can tell you the same thing I told Seerow in HIS Marshall fix- I like the idea of special abilities or actions that aren't auras. When I was looking for a way to combine the Fighter and the Marshall into one, more suitable class, I called them special tactics, and they included things like being able to swap yourself with an ally, interrupting skill checks, spells, and attacks at range, a sonic Fus-roh-dah style shout, and making the Dungeoncrasher bonuses part of the base class options, without sacrificing feats.

It might not be in the flavor of what you are going for, but it's something that I liked and was considering. Punishment, and other active abilities like it would fit much better as something like that than as an aura.
Sure-- my fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?276280-GitP-Fighter-Fix-18343-3-Ziegander-Grod-Tag-Team-Action!)does something like that too (and can take on a Marshal's role just fine). But those are a lot more complicated than a passive aura, and simplicity is key for this round of homebrew.

Seerow
2015-01-22, 09:15 PM
Hmm. So neuter Halting, replace Punishment, and... hmm. Let you project either beneficial or baneful auras, but not both? One beneficial and one baneful at a time? One at a time, period? Alternately, how much does it need to be neutered to keep everything at once? I'd like to keep the class as minimal-input as possible, and it would be nice for a new player not to have to worry about bonuses like Vigor and Inspiration turning on and off...

It depends on what power level you're aiming for. I don't think having all benefits active is necessarily a bad thing. If you do restrict it, I would definitely go with one buffing aura and one debuffing aura rather than choosing between buff and debuff. But I agree that with your aim at ultimate simplicity, not having to cycle between auras will keep things much simpler.


If you don't mind a disassociated mechanic, you could keep Punishment aura as an aura that causes damage to any enemy attacking one of your allies, just without the whole you running up and attacking thing. While it may be hard to explain away conceptually, it fits what an aura should be (a passive thing that just happens within an area) much better. But if that is too hard to swallow, something like an enemy attacking an ally that isn't you to take morale penalties or status effects (shaken would be an interesting one, especially if you gave the Marshal another fear effect he could use on his action to capitalize on it) would be fairly reasonable.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-22, 10:19 PM
It depends on what power level you're aiming for.
Same as most of my other homebrew-- balanced against T3 classes like the ones I listed at the top of the page-- non-Sublime-Chord Bard, Crusader, Totemist, Binder, and so on, with a preference for high floor/low ceiling.


Something like an enemy attacking an ally that isn't you to take morale penalties or status effects (shaken would be an interesting one, especially if you gave the Marshal another fear effect he could use on his action to capitalize on it) would be fairly reasonable.
Hmm, I like the sound of that. So the negative side winds up being:
Difficult terrain-type hindrance
A Shaken/Frightened/Panicked type track for hitting allies?
Replacement for Halting, replacement for Halting... maybe they have to make a Will save to take an aggressive action against allies?
Or maybe just have a constant fear effect, along the lines of Frightful Presence?

While the positive side is:
Bonus to atk/dmg/AC
A big pool of regenerating temporary health (I might drop it to, oh, 5*level instead of Cha*level-- that could get pretty high)
Bonus move or standard action (Seriously good, yeah, but, as you mentioned, it is an endgame ability. It's hard to think of a more generally useful buff)

Seerow
2015-01-23, 01:07 AM
Personally I would lean towards something like:

Debuffing:
Dominance remains unchanged.
Punishment changed to act as shaken for one round when you attack an ally. This ability won't progress beyond shaken by itself. (otherwise a fighter trying to take a full attack is going to turn himself into a coward running away almost instantly with no save. Which is a bit much)
Hindrance. Movement within aura is halved, stacks with difficult terrain.

Alternative Hindrance: Enemies lose their swift/immediate actions.
Alternative Hindrance: As you had it, but grant a save each round, and a successful save renders them immune for the rest of the encounter. So it becomes a big action economy advantage early in the fight, but after the first couple rounds its benefit wears off.


I also think adding in there something like make a standard action attack and attempt an intimidate check as a part of the attack would be worthwhile. Yes it's an extra combat option, but adding an extra standard action option at mid levels shouldn't be too problematic, and being able to push someone into Frightened but only when actively trying to feels a lot better than enemies just randomly getting scared and running off after attacking your allies. Basically you unsettle them when they attack your ally, then on your turn you punish them for it by stacking it up a category.

Quellian-dyrae
2015-01-24, 12:03 AM
Polearm Skill (Ex): A Marshal is familiar with many weapons, but possesses special skill with polearms. When wielding a reach weapon, he may attack targets anywhere within reach without penalty, including adjacent targets.

Cool.


Aura of Battle (Ex): A Marshal dominates the battlefield through sheer presence. All valid targets within the range indicated on the table above— including the Marshal himself—are affected by all effects below.

Hmm...yeah, it might be better to be able to project only beneficial or only detrimental, since the two seem to often do the same thing from the opposite directions, so having both really compounds the effect.


Inspiration: Beginning at 1st level, allies gain a morale bonus to attack, damage, and armor class equal to one half your Marshal level (minimum 1)

This seems way too strong at the upper levels. I mean, at 20th level, it amounts to a full RNG worth of advantage on comparative hit rates, plus a damage bonus. I'd say maybe change it to half Cha mod. That'd potentially boost it at the low levels, and it'd cap around +6 at the high levels barring things like templates, which seems sufficient. Maybe double it for the damage bonus (full Cha) if you want it to have some extra oomph.


Dominance: Beginning at 3rd level, enemies move at half speed and cannot run or charge unless moving towards the Marshal. In addition, they take a penalty to attacks not targeting the Marshal equal to one-half your Marshal level.

If beneficial and detrimental are exclusive this should be fine, since it's less a penalty and more incentive to attack you. That said, with halved speed and considering aura size at mid and high levels, melee enemies may not be able to reliably reach you, in which case they basically just have to eat the penalty. I definitely would tone it down if beneficial and detrimental can apply simultaneously.


Vigor: Beginning at 6th level, allies gain a pool of temporary hit point equal to your level multiplied by your Charisma modifier. Allies regain these temporary hit points at a rate of 1/round per point of your Charisma modifier. If they leave the range of your aura, these temporary hit points are lost. If an ally who had benefited from this aura in the last minute leaves and then returns, his temporary hit points return to their previous amount.

That's a whole lotta temp hit points. I'd maybe make it a single pool that you can freely spend to protect allies in the aura? Perhaps with a clause that one expenditure protects all targets of the same attack (making it stronger against area attacks, since you want allies near you after all).


Punishment: Beginning at 9th level, whenever an enemy attacks a target other than the Marshal, he may move within his weapon’s reach of them and make a single melee attack. He does not provoke attacks of opportunity for this movement. If he is wielding a ranged weapon, he may instead make a single ranged attack against them without provoking attacks of opportunity for firing while in melee, if relevant.

I'd put some limit on this. Probably once per round per attacker and costing one AoO per attack. Otherwise it feels almost less like ally protection and more like auto-neutering melee opponents, especially if you have a ranged weapon, since at this point they can't easily reach you (half speed), take a big penalty to attack your allies, and take a return attack every time they try.


Alacrity: Beginning at 12th level, allies may take one additional move action each round. If they choose to benefit from this aura, they cannot benefit from Assault in the same round.

Seems fine. Might not be amiss to make it cost a swift action for the ally, though (which would also circumvent the possibility of multiple high-level marshals stacking extra actions on their allies).


Halting: Beginning at 16th level, enemies may take either a move or a standard action each round, but not both, as if he was Staggered.

This seems pretty hefty for a no-save, no-action, selective, huge-area effect. And makes it even harder for melee opponents to actually matter in battle with a ranged marshal who tries to avoid melee attackers and just force them to suck on penalties.


Assault: Beginning at 18th level, allies may take one additional standard action each round. If they choose to benefit from this aura, they cannot benefit from Alacrity in the same round.

Seems like way too much to me. Every caster on your team outputs another spell per round. Every martial adept unloads another Strike. At no cost on either your or their part, the basic resources of the actions taken aside. Maybe make this and Alacrity cost a swift action to benefit from. It'd still be really, really good, but at least it would come at a cost.


Call of Battle (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, a Marshal gains a morale bonus to saving throws, initiative checks, and the number of attacks of opportunity he may make each round equal to his Charisma modifier.

This is pretty strong, but is probably fair enough.


Stand Still: At 2nd level, a Marshal gains Stand Still (XPH) as a bonus feat.

Mettle (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, a Marshal can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping Marshal does not gain the benefit of mettle.

Bonus Feat: At 4th level, and every subsequent 4th level, a Marshal gains a bonus feat, drawn from the list of fighter bonus feats.

Yep.


Polearm Mastery (Ex): Beginning at 7th level, a Marshal may add his Charisma modifier to any combat maneuver checks he makes while wielding a reach weapon, such as trip and disarm attempts.

That's cool.


Warrior’s Onslaught (Ex): Beginning at 10th level, a Marshal may make a full attack as a standard action.

Seems unnecessary when you get Alacrity two levels later, and Reactive Rush a level after that. Makes Assault even more overwhelming; now you're dropping two full attacks a round, every round.


You’ve Probably Heard of Me (Ex): No matter how far a Marshal wanders, he finds his story has spread farther still. Beginning at 11th level, all non-hostile NPCs are treated as if they were one step more friendly when interacting with the Marshal. He may add his Marshal level to any Intimidate check he makes; however, he takes a penalty equal to his Marshal level to any Disguise check or similar attempt to conceal his identity.

Reactive Rush (Ex): Beginning at 13th level, a Marshal may move up to his speed as an immediate action.

My Mind is My Own (Ex): Beginning at 14th level, a Marshal automatically succeeds on saves against [Mind Affecting] abilities. An unconscious or sleeping Marshal does not gain the benefit of this ability.

These are all cool. I like Reactive Rush especially.


Retributive Assault (Ex): Beginning at 17th level, a Marshal may take an extra turn immediately whenever an ally is reduced to zero or fewer hit points. He may not benefit from this ability more than once per round.

This is awesome. Maaaaybe it wouldn't be amiss to make it take an immediate action, but probably doesn't really need it. You might also want to make it a max of once per encounter per ally, and maybe include some sort of ally level minimum or something to keep from like, going into battle with a horde of first level fighters to get double turns as they inevitably die, or something.


Eternal War (Ex): At 19th level, a Marshal becomes immune to death effects and massive damage, and gains Regeneration equal to his Charisma modifier for as long as he has a weapon in his hand. This regeneration is not bypassed by any damage type. A Marshal rendered unconscious by nonlethal damage retains hold of his weapons. To wrest a weapon from the hand on a Marshal, the opponent must take a standard action and succeed on an opposed Strength check. The Marshal may make this check despite any circumstance, such as unconsciousness, that would normally prevent him from doing so, and he gains a bonus to the check equal to his Charisma modifier.

'Nother cool one.


Raise Army (Ex): The people know you, and they answer your call. By taking ten minutes to give a rousing speech, you may transform any Helpful Humanoid with hit die equal to or lower than his Charisma modifier into a Warrior of a level equal to your Charisma modifier. They possess hit die, feats, and skills as normal for a Warrior of their level, but no equipment, and are Fanatically loyal to you. They remain in this state until slain or dismissed. Humanoids with class levels may choose to retain those levels in place of Warrior levels, but still become Fanatically loyal. These followers benefit from your Aura of War as if you were a Marshal of one-half your level as long as they know (or believe) that you are on the battlefield with them.

Awesome capstone. In an ideal world I'd say it should have some sort of limit to number, but minionmancy is already broken beyond repair, so whatever.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-26, 10:04 AM
Alrightie. Changes made:

Replaced Punishment with Dominance, and replaced Dominance with a fear-based aura.
Lessened the bonuses/penalties from Inspiration and Dominance
Alacrity and Assault now cost swift actions to use.
Halting now removes enemy swift and immediate actions.
Replaced Mettle with an fear-provoking attack
Replaced Warrior's Onslaught with a variation on the old Punishment aura


How's he looking now?