To let or not to let (a player homebrew his character)...

[Tarrab]

Well, this is unfortunately tied to my previous post...

One of my player´s has just come back to me with a homebrewed idea for a species he really wants to play. He took the concept out of Vhailor from PsCT, I imagine.
The whole idea is that he wants to be a walking spirit that is bound to an armor, he cannot become ethereal in any way, and he wants to use it to create something akin a spirit of vengeance for a Paladin.
I am inclined to tell him no, but I want everyone´s opinion on the matter. It seems OP in a way, yet it kinda balances out. What do you think?

New Race: Absent Lord.
-Ability Score Increase: +2 Con +1 to any other stat.
-Age: Eternal.
-Alignment: Any, mostly Lawful.
-Size: Medium.
-Speed 30 ft.
-Languages: Read, speak and write Common.
-Constructed Nature: An Absent Lord does not require air, food, drink or sleep of any kind. He counts as a Construct for all spells and effects that affect both the living and constructs.
-Immunities: Exhaustion, petrified, poisoned and diseased.
-Damage immunities: Poison.
-Damage resistance: Necrotic.
-Darkvision 120 ft.
-Armor possession. The basic AC of an Absent Lord is 12 instead of 10. If the Absent Lord is proficient in a different type of metal made armor, he can make a 1hour ritual (10 hour ritual for magical armors) to make that armor his new body. In this case, the 12 is replaced by the AC total that the new armor gives. If the armor requires attunement, the Absent Lord must attune to it to use it as his body. Any restriction to class abilities or spells generated by using any type of armor apply to the Absent Lord unless he is using his normal body. The Absent Lord cannot attune to armor bigger than Medium Size, but he can attune to armor of Smaller Size. The Absent Lord cannot become an armor that isn´t made of some type of metallic material.
-False Appearance: While the Absent Lord remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from a normal suit of armor.
-Anti-magic Susceptibility: If the Absent Lord enters the area of an Anti-magic field or is targeted by a Dispel Magic spell, he must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the DC of the spell or fall unconscious for 1 minute. During this time, he appears to have left the armor he possessed.
-Broken Soul: The Absent Lord cannot heal like a normal character. The effects of all type of Cure and Healing Spells have no effect on him, neither those who Inflict Wounds. He cannot be resurrected or revived once dead. He cannot imbed any type of potion. Spells that remove negative status like the Charmed condition do work on him, although only to remove the condition that affects him. Spells that give him morale or enhancement effects also work, including Temporary Hit points. He can also gain magical or morale bonuses from other effects besides spells, unless they must be eaten or drank.
-Restless Soul: The Absent Lord cannot regain Hit Points from Short or Long rests. He can spend his Hit Dice as a bonus action at any moment during the day, but he regains them back the same as anyone else.
-Soul Syphon: By spending an action, the Absent Lord can try to syphon the essence of a target, healing his wounds. Constructs are immune to this effect. This does 1d6+Con modifier of Force Dmg and has a reach of 5 Feet. He must hit the target by rolling his Constitution Modifier + his Proficiency bonus. He heals a total amount of Hit Points equal to half the damage he does on the attack. Every two level, the damage of this attack increases in 1d6 and its reach increases by 5 feet. This is a ranged supernatural ability and cannot be modified by spells or feats. The Hit Points gained in this fashion can never exceed your total amount regular Hit Points.

Give me your thougts.

T.

[Once a Fool]

Given the inability to heal normally, any concerns I would have about the immunities and resistances are mitigated (and those are what, at first, gives the greatest cause got concern).

In fact, I'm a little concerned that it's too hard to heal early on. Because attempting it would provoke opportunity attacks for the first two levels.

If it were me, I'd replace that with a racial cantrip that forced a Con save (DC set by player's choice of mental stat at generation) to deal the damage and gain the healing. Scale it like a cantrip. And maybe give it a more forgiving starting range, like out to 15 ft.

Or, make it a cantrip that can trigger on any weapon hit (even ranged), by using a bonus action (in which case, no extra damage dealt and healing ought to be based on what the weapon attack dealt.

[archaeo]

Has your player considered Keith Baker's take on a 5e Warforged (http://keith-baker.com/extra-life-hacking-the-warforged/)? That might provide the flavor he's looking for without all the fiddly stuff on top.

Personally, I'd be inclined to axe all the healing stuff and replace it with some vulnerabilities to counteract the immunities. But I also think this just sounds like a very complicated race with too much going on for little added value beyond being fiddly. YMMV. It might be worth playtesting; the worst thing that will happen is you guys will find out it's horrible to play or absurdly overpowered.

[Once a Fool]

I'd also seriously consider giving some limited long-term regeneration, like 1hp/level/hour while under 3hp/level.

Or, more simply, regain hp to a minimum of 3hp/level at the end of a short or long rest.

[Shining Wrath]

Remove Soul Siphon is my first thought. It's is a powerful ability, very out of line with anything else. Being able to attack and deal damage while healing yourself is sweet - too sweet. By the time he's 20th level, he's doing 10d6 + 5 damage (average 40) and healing 20 at ranges up to 55 feet, just from his racial ability. If he's a Fighter or other Martial, he can do this 4 or more times per round. Guy deals 160 points of damage and heals himself for 80 every round, with the possibility of switching targets if the first, e.g., 80 points drops someone? Yowzer. He'd go through BBEG minions like a mower through grass.

And by then he's going to be walking around as a suit of mithral plate, possibly +3 if you give out powerful magic items.

Instead, maybe give him Advantage on the Hit Dice rolls, and allow someone who has proficiency in Arcana and Herbalism and Medicine and Smith's tools (all 4) to craft repair potions for him, which ought to cost more than the usual 50 GP of Cure Wounds.

[Once a Fool]

Remove Soul Siphon is my first thought. It's is a powerful ability, very out of line with anything else. Being able to attack and deal damage while healing yourself is sweet - too sweet. By the time he's 20th level, he's doing 10d6 + 5 damage (average 40) and healing 20 at ranges up to 55 feet, just from his racial ability. If he's a Fighter or other Martial, he can do this 4 or more times per round. Guy deals 160 points of damage and heals himself for 80 every round, with the possibility of switching targets if the first, e.g., 80 points drops someone? Yowzer. He'd go through BBEG minions like a mower through grass.

Right, but scale it like a cantrip and it's not so bad. Especially if you keep the range fairly tight (but no automatic OAs like the first two levels would have--that's too much).

[Joe the Rat]

I was going to recommend Charisma or maybe Wisdom rather than Constitution to resist A-M / Dispel effects. He should also be susceptible to Protection from Good and Evil.

[Garshu]

This seems very close to what a divine rank of 0 gave you in 3.5. Divine rank meaning the first step of becoming a GOD. specifically the following would have me lean towards saying no.
"-Age: Eternal. "

"An Absent Lord does not require air, food, drink or sleep of any kind. He counts as a Construct for all spells and effects that affect both the living and constructs."

"-Immunities: Exhaustion, petrified, poisoned and diseased."

"-Damage immunities: Poison."

"-Damage resistance: Necrotic."

And the most OP one which is "-Soul Syphon: By spending an action, the Absent Lord can try to syphon the essence of a target, healing his wounds. Constructs are immune to this effect. This does 1d6+Con modifier of Force Dmg and has a reach of 5 Feet. He must hit the target by rolling his Constitution Modifier + his Proficiency bonus. He heals a total amount of Hit Points equal to half the damage he does on the attack. Every two level, the damage of this attack increases in 1d6 and its reach increases by 5 feet. This is a ranged supernatural ability and cannot be modified by spells or feats. The Hit Points gained in this fashion can never exceed your total amount regular Hit Points."

all of which is countered by the ability to spend a HD to regain HP at any point of the day...instead of needing an hour. Granted he cannot be healed by normal means, but that doesn't negate nearly enough of what is above. kill something, wait 8 hours, get your HD back, use HD as staff of healing...This seems ridiculously OP. Also, he can take his time and long rest things all day, he lives forever. Unless it is a world shattering adventure, he can always just wait 100 years and move on.

[DireSickFish]

I'd say no, the immunities are kinda crazy. The soul siphon basically replaces -any- form of attack the character is going to make. Both because he "needs" it to heal, and because it scales with level. He also has a -far- longer list of abilities than anyone has a right to.

This would take far more than "tweaking" to make work. You'd basically need to just grab the fluff and make up your own version whole-cloth. The whole "strong negatives to balance strong bonuses" thing doesn't really work in 5th edition. Or at least none of the races are designed that way. You just become -amazing- at whatever it is you are good at and rely on d20 rolls or work arounds for the rest.

I'd maybe show him some of the examples in the kobold section on how to make a race. Give him a race to start with and tell him to add something then take away something of equal value.

[Tarrab]

Thanks for everyone´s opinion. I told him, quity simply to f***off, but I will abide by the idea of considering a diminished version of a Warforged.

Thanks guys.

[Stormageddon]

Thanks for everyone´s opinion. I told him, quity simply to f***off, but I will abide by the idea of considering a diminished version of a Warforged.

Thanks guys.

Generally what I say to people who want to play homebrew.

[Shining Wrath]

I guess I'm a big softy, if a player has a concept I like to see if I can make it work.

This one needed a lot of work ...

[Celcey]

Thanks for everyone´s opinion. I told him, quite simply to f*** off, but I will abide by the idea of considering a diminished version of a Warforged.

That seems like a overreaction. Obviously this exact thing would not have worked, but as the DM, you should work with your players to try and make the character they want (within obvious boundaries of balance), not shut them down because their first draft was too OP.

[C-Dude]

As a player who likes to play bizarre characters I am regretful that I didn't learn the power of reskinning existing material until halfway through 4th edition. Oftentimes I would homebrew content simply as an effort to attain a thematic or visual effect that would have been possible if the class's abilities were simply described in another manner.

To that end, this concept of an armor-possessing spirit might work if you just apply it to the Dwarf race. The spirit is resistant to poisons yes but only has so many years to finish his business until his ectoplasm depletes and he disperses into vapor. He has to replenish these sources by consuming not food and water but rather small lives such as birds and spiders (a lot like Renfield, actually). Yeah, it doesn't have some of the features he wants, but it's certainly a much more feasible option than a raw homebrew.

[Balor777]

I would deffinately play the Project with very small changes.

Remove Soul Siphon is my first thought. It's is a powerful ability, very out of line with anything else. Being able to attack and deal damage while healing yourself is sweet - too sweet. By the time he's 20th level, he's doing 10d6 + 5 damage (average 40) and healing 20 at ranges up to 55 feet, just from his racial ability. If he's a Fighter or other Martial, he can do this 4 or more times per round. Guy deals 160 points of damage and heals himself for 80 every round, with the possibility of switching targets if the first, e.g., 80 points drops someone? Yowzer. He'd go through BBEG minions like a mower through grass.

No because:
-Soul Syphon: By spending an action, the Absent Lord can try to(...).It is actualy a spell like ability probably.
The only change i would do is make it once per short rest for 1d6 per level.Spending your turn at 20 level to deal 40 damage and heal 20 hp is a joke.
This way its 55 average damage/27 healed at 15 level.If he is a spellcaster he would still better cast that 8th level spells.
Heck firestorm(7th level spell) does 7d10 fire x 10 cubes...

The race is nice and i like it.Its not op by any means.And in my opinion you should NEVER reject a hombrew idea.At the end DND is a game of imagination and fantasy.
If a homebrewed race/class/feat is OP the DM should scale it doen/balance it and let the creative player have fun.If its balanced and not overshadowing the capabilities of the other
PCs you are good to go whatever you bring to the table.


That seems like a overreaction. Obviously this exact thing would not have worked, but as the DM, you should work with your players to try and make the character they want (within obvious boundaries of balance), not shut them down because their first draft was too OP.
I totaly agree.

[Tarrab]

I would deffinately play the Project with very small changes.

No because:.It is actualy a spell like ability probably.
The only change i would do is make it once per short rest for 1d6 per level.Spending your turn at 20 level to deal 40 damage and heal 20 hp is a joke.
This way its 55 average damage/27 healed at 15 level.If he is a spellcaster he would still better cast that 8th level spells.
Heck firestorm(7th level spell) does 7d10 fire x 10 cubes...

The race is nice and i like it.Its not op by any means.And in my opinion you should NEVER reject a hombrew idea.At the end DND is a game of imagination and fantasy.
If a homebrewed race/class/feat is OP the DM should scale it doen/balance it and let the creative player have fun.If its balanced and not overshadowing the capabilities of the other
PCs you are good to go whatever you bring to the table.


I totaly agree.

Well, the f******off wasn´t literal, it´s mostly a manner of speaking I told him to not try to play a race that will inconvinience him more because of its weaknesses than what it will reward him for his strength. He tried to convince me again to play it, replacing the Soul Syphon ability (which by the way would have been once per round, non-modded by feat, spell or class abilities) by allowing him to gain regeneration equal to half his level. I think if I don´t come up with a variable for the player, I will have one sad little gamer on my table...

[DanyBallon]

Let him have some king of regeneration, but its hit points would be based on the type of armor he possess +1hp/HD instead of using his class HP.

[Tarrab]

Mhhh, he came up with a "correction" as to play the Race... let´s check it out:

New Race: Absent Lord.
-Ability Score Increase: +2 Con +1 to any other stat.

-Age: Up to 1000 years.

-Alignment: Any, mostly Lawful.

-Size: Medium.

-Speed 30 ft.

-Languages: Read, speak and write Common.

-Constructed Nature: An Absent Lord does not require air or drink. He counts as a Construct for all spells and effects that affect both the living and constructs.

-Consumed: Absent Lords gain no Soul Syphon if they do not rest 4 hours every day.

-Willing form: The Absent Lord must meditate for 4 hours every day to keep his form stable. If he needs to wake up during this trance, he cannot heal until he rests for 4 hours. He does not, however, gain Exhaustion from lack of rest.

-Immunities: Exhaustion, Petrified, Poisoned and Diseased.

-Damage immunities: Poison.

-Damage resistance: Necrotic.

-Darkvision 120 ft.

-Armor possession. The basic AC of an Absent Lord is 12 instead of 10. If the Absent Lord is proficient in a different type of metal made armor, he can make a 1hour ritual (10 hour ritual for magical armors) to make that armor his new body. In this case, the 12 is replaced by the AC total that the new armor gives. If the armor requires attunement, the Absent Lord must attune to it to use it as his body. Any restriction to class abilities or spells generated by using any type of armor apply to the Absent Lord unless he is using his normal body. The Absent Lord cannot attune to armor bigger than Medium Size, but he can attune to armor of Smaller Size. The Absent Lord cannot become an armor that isn´t made of some type of metallic material.

-False Appearance: While the Absent Lord remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from a normal suit of armor.

-Anti-magic Susceptibility: If the Absent Lord enters the area of an Anti-magic field or is targeted by a Dispel Magic spell, he must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the DC of the spell or fall unconscious for 1 minute. During this time, he appears to have left the armor he possessed.

-Broken Soul: The Absent Lord cannot heal like a normal character. The effects of all type of Cure and Healing Spells have no effect on him, neither those who Inflict Wounds. He cannot be resurrected or revived once dead. He cannot imbed any type of potion. Spells that remove negative status like the Charmed condition do work on him, although only to remove the condition that affects him. Spells that give him morale or enhancement effects also work, including Temporary Hit points. He can also gain magical or morale bonuses from other effects besides spells, unless they must be eaten or drank.

-Restless Soul: The Absent Lord cannot regain Hit Points from Short or Long rests. He can spend his Hit Dice as a bonus action at any moment during the day, but he regains them back the same as anyone else (half of his total amount spent every long rest).

-Soul Syphon: Every time an Absent Lord damages an enemy, he immediately syphons some of the victim´s soul to himself. This works on every enemy except Constructs. He syphons a total amount of hit points depending on damage made. If he does Damage in Melee Range, he heals 1 Hit Point for every 5 HP of damage he inflicts. If he does Damage in Ranged attacks or Ranged spells, he heals 1 Hit Point for every 10 HP damage he inflicts (unless he attacks/casts the spell at melee range, in which case Melee Healing applies). This healing can never get him more HPs than his total maximum.

-Reaper of Souls: When the Absent Lord kills a target, if he has a Bonus Action left, he can immediately reap the soul of his target. This can only be done if he has a Bonus Action left after downing his target, and only works on a single target at a time that must be on a reach of 30 feet. The enemy dies immediately and the Absent Lord is healed half the amount of damage he inflicted to his enemy. If the target has the chance to get Death Saving Throws, the Absent Lord can spend a Bonus Action every round to instantly inflict an automatic failure on the target. Every time he does this, he heals himself a total amount of hit points equal to his highest HD + his Con modifier times 2 "(Highest HD+Con)x2". He can use Reaper of Souls on a target until he recovers from the Death Saving Throws or dies.

---

I´m still not convinced, and the Warforged species that I saw is a bit too... organic for his taste.

[Longcat]

Generally what I say to people who want to play homebrew.

The Golden rules of homebrew:
1) If it can be accomplished without homebrew, do not use homebrew.
2) Never let a player homebrew something they are going to use themselves.

[Tarrab]

The Golden rules of homebrew:
1) If it can be accomplished without homebrew, do not use homebrew.
2) Never let a player homebrew something they are going to use themselves.

The Golden rules of whiny players:
1) If it can be accomplished without homebrew, I don´t wanna accomplish it.
2) If I cannot use what I homebrew the other guys will roleplay it wrong.

And that is why RPG saved humanity from a lot of people who, thank god, didn´t become politicians or doctors... except those politicians and doctors who do, actually, play.

T.

[kaoskonfety]

That is alot of moving parts... trying to cut a couple out... working off the original...
Thoughts - pull back a bit over all and give thing or 2 back...
+2 con +1 cha (ghost style bonus from 3rd)

-Constructed Nature: An Absent Lord does not require air, food, drink or sleep of any kind. He counts as a Construct for all spells and effects that affect both the living and constructs.
-Immunities: Exhaustion, petrified, poisoned and diseased.
-Damage immunities: Poison.
-Damage resistance: Lose the resistance to necrotic - cute, but advantage on saves seems more fitting if you must go that way - immunity to exhaustion is a major feature, the rest is more hit and miss with immunity poison being the only other issue that may come up 'often'.

-Armor possession - replace the time frames with "short rest" and "long rest" and rather than the extended explanation regarding it being him equipping the armour this is just how long it take him to "equip" the new armour? For an added nudge/drawback/flavouring: it destroys the previous armour?

-False Appearance: I'd suggest lose this one completely or give advantage on check to "hide" as a suit of armour, "automatic" seems both boring and too good

-Broken Soul: resistant to healing effects suggested? (half healing) this is already enough drawback it will largely be "wasting actions" healing him - the rest looks fine
-Restless soul: looks fine I think? not sure its at all necessary though.
-Soul Syphon: I'd suggest - Change it to Charisma based attack roll, take out the stat boost to damage, and change the damage to psychic - progress the damage as a d6 cantrip and give it a short but not 5' range (30', 60' 90'?) and no range increase with leveling

[Tarrab]

That is alot of moving parts... trying to cut a couple out... working off the original...
Thoughts - pull back a bit over all and give thing or 2 back...
+2 con +1 cha (ghost style bonus from 3rd)

-Constructed Nature: An Absent Lord does not require air, food, drink or sleep of any kind. He counts as a Construct for all spells and effects that affect both the living and constructs.
-Immunities: Exhaustion, petrified, poisoned and diseased.
-Damage immunities: Poison.
-Damage resistance: Lose the resistance to necrotic - cute, but advantage on saves seems more fitting if you must go that way - immunity to exhaustion is a major feature, the rest is more hit and miss with immunity poison being the only other issue that may come up 'often'.

-Armor possession - replace the time frames with "short rest" and "long rest" and rather than the extended explanation regarding it being him equipping the armour this is just how long it take him to "equip" the new armour? For an added nudge/drawback/flavouring: it destroys the previous armour?

-False Appearance: I'd suggest lose this one completely or give advantage on check to "hide" as a suit of armour, "automatic" seems both boring and too good

-Broken Soul: resistant to healing effects suggested? (half healing) this is already enough drawback it will largely be "wasting actions" healing him - the rest looks fine
-Restless soul: looks fine I think? not sure its at all necessary though.
-Soul Syphon: I'd suggest - Change it to Charisma based attack roll, take out the stat boost to damage, and change the damage to psychic - progress the damage as a d6 cantrip and give it a short but not 5' range (30', 60' 90'?) and no range increase with leveling

I think I like the second version he sent me a tiny bit better, cause as others pointed out, Soul Syphon would end up always being his main attack (if not mostly, I mean, healing right?). Did you check it out?

[Shining Wrath]

He's made the race stronger. Soul Siphon is now stronger (1/5th of all damage inflicted, every time, for a melee-focused class? Seriously?) and adding the Reaper of Souls feature makes this thing nigh-unkillable. This guy can wade into a crowd of mooks at half health and walk out at full health. This version of D&D he's supposed to be afraid of crowds.

It's also a wall of text, with lots of opportunities for rules lawyering. Tell him to get the description of racial traits and features down to 1.5 times what it takes to provide same for elves or dwarves - I'm allowing an extra 50% because the "can't heal" thing needs words.

And tell him to remove Soul Siphon and Ravager of Souls. Instead, allow anyone proficient with armorer's tools to repair d6+proficiency+intelligence modifier during a short rest - EXCEPT the Absent Lord. He can't fix himself. Then give him advantage on Hit Dice rolls.

It'll be interesting role-playing that this unstoppable armored juggernaut needs someone to fix him.

[Bubzors]

Mhhh, he came up with a "correction" as to play the Race... let´s check it out:

New Race: Absent Lord.
-Ability Score Increase: +2 Con +1 to any other stat.

-Age: Up to 1000 years.

-Alignment: Any, mostly Lawful.

-Size: Medium.

-Speed 30 ft.

-Languages: Read, speak and write Common.

-Constructed Nature: An Absent Lord does not require air or drink. He counts as a Construct for all spells and effects that affect both the living and constructs.

-Consumed: Absent Lords gain no Soul Syphon if they do not rest 4 hours every day.

-Willing form: The Absent Lord must meditate for 4 hours every day to keep his form stable. If he needs to wake up during this trance, he cannot heal until he rests for 4 hours. He does not, however, gain Exhaustion from lack of rest.

-Immunities: Exhaustion, Petrified, Poisoned and Diseased.

-Damage immunities: Poison.

-Damage resistance: Necrotic.

-Darkvision 120 ft.

-Armor possession. The basic AC of an Absent Lord is 12 instead of 10. If the Absent Lord is proficient in a different type of metal made armor, he can make a 1hour ritual (10 hour ritual for magical armors) to make that armor his new body. In this case, the 12 is replaced by the AC total that the new armor gives. If the armor requires attunement, the Absent Lord must attune to it to use it as his body. Any restriction to class abilities or spells generated by using any type of armor apply to the Absent Lord unless he is using his normal body. The Absent Lord cannot attune to armor bigger than Medium Size, but he can attune to armor of Smaller Size. The Absent Lord cannot become an armor that isn´t made of some type of metallic material.

-False Appearance: While the Absent Lord remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from a normal suit of armor.

-Anti-magic Susceptibility: If the Absent Lord enters the area of an Anti-magic field or is targeted by a Dispel Magic spell, he must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the DC of the spell or fall unconscious for 1 minute. During this time, he appears to have left the armor he possessed.

-Broken Soul: The Absent Lord cannot heal like a normal character. The effects of all type of Cure and Healing Spells have no effect on him, neither those who Inflict Wounds. He cannot be resurrected or revived once dead. He cannot imbed any type of potion. Spells that remove negative status like the Charmed condition do work on him, although only to remove the condition that affects him. Spells that give him morale or enhancement effects also work, including Temporary Hit points. He can also gain magical or morale bonuses from other effects besides spells, unless they must be eaten or drank.

-Restless Soul: The Absent Lord cannot regain Hit Points from Short or Long rests. He can spend his Hit Dice as a bonus action at any moment during the day, but he regains them back the same as anyone else (half of his total amount spent every long rest).

-Soul Syphon: Every time an Absent Lord damages an enemy, he immediately syphons some of the victim´s soul to himself. This works on every enemy except Constructs. He syphons a total amount of hit points depending on damage made. If he does Damage in Melee Range, he heals 1 Hit Point for every 5 HP of damage he inflicts. If he does Damage in Ranged attacks or Ranged spells, he heals 1 Hit Point for every 10 HP damage he inflicts (unless he attacks/casts the spell at melee range, in which case Melee Healing applies). This healing can never get him more HPs than his total maximum.

-Reaper of Souls: When the Absent Lord kills a target, if he has a Bonus Action left, he can immediately reap the soul of his target. This can only be done if he has a Bonus Action left after downing his target, and only works on a single target at a time that must be on a reach of 30 feet. The enemy dies immediately and the Absent Lord is healed half the amount of damage he inflicted to his enemy. If the target has the chance to get Death Saving Throws, the Absent Lord can spend a Bonus Action every round to instantly inflict an automatic failure on the target. Every time he does this, he heals himself a total amount of hit points equal to his highest HD + his Con modifier times 2 "(Highest HD+Con)x2". He can use Reaper of Souls on a target until he recovers from the Death Saving Throws or dies.

---

I´m still not convinced, and the Warforged species that I saw is a bit too... organic for his taste.

Still seems pretty OP to me. a damage immunity and resistance on top of free uses of HD? And healing while dealing damage? What if he goes the path of damage dealing barbarian or nova paladin? He could be dealing out a lot of damage that goes right back to healing him.

Also the reaper of souls thing seems decidedly evil. Feeding on souls to sustain yourself? Sounds a lot like a lich to me. The fact he is immune to exhaustion and petrification? That's a whole slew of strategies you can't use against him. Also making some monsters a joke.

Bootomline is I would not let a player play this in a game of mine

[Tarrab]

Bootomline is I would not let a player play this in a game of mine

Well, that was my first aim, but he is just so excited to break any possibilities of being killed! *Yawn*

I do have to admit that for someone who gets little to no healing, getting 1 hp every 5 would be little in a way. I mean he exposes himself at melee range and will heal 6 hp for every 30 he deals, that ain´t thaaaat much, right? And 1 every 10 in ranged? 10 for every 100? I mean, come on.

The soul eating thingy does seem evil, and I would rule it would end up making him evil if he uses it AAAAAALL THE TIIIIIIME. Oh, wait, are there good necromancers? *Shiver*

[Shining Wrath]

Well, that was my first aim, but he is just so excited to break any possibilities of being killed! *Yawn*

I do have to admit that for someone who gets little to no healing, getting 1 hp every 5 would be little in a way. I mean he exposes himself at melee range and will heal 6 hp for every 30 he deals, that ain´t thaaaat much, right? And 1 every 10 in ranged? 10 for every 100? I mean, come on.

The soul eating thingy does seem evil, and I would rule it would end up making him evil if he uses it AAAAAALL THE TIIIIIIME. Oh, wait, are there good necromancers? *Shiver*

Here's another possibility - tell him he can play the race as written (more or less), but that if it seems to be overshadowing the other players, you will add disadvantages to restore balance. Tell him the disadvantages in advance, in the order you'll add them.

Some possible disadvantages off the top of my head:
Rust never sleeps. Rust monsters do, but noisy parties wake them up.
Magnets. 'nuff said.
Vulnerability to electrical damage.
Racial enemies - the fey treat Absent Lords like undead, which is to say, very badly.
Some religions prevalent in your world think Absent Lords are demonically possessed (soul reaping does NOT help here).
A mad wizard collects Absent Lords for "study", which they seldom never survive.

[OldTrees1]

At this point I would do 2 things:
1) Tell him that it has too many moving parts for a 5E race.
2) Present something to him that you would be willing to allow.

This should prompt him to have a much more reasonable 3rd draft.

Edit:
For example

Since he wants lots of features, let's use Variant Human as the model instead of the +2/+1 races. This means he gets +1/+1 and about 1.25 feats worth of features.

[Tarrab]

Here's another possibility - tell him he can play the race as written (more or less), but that if it seems to be overshadowing the other players, you will add disadvantages to restore balance. Tell him the disadvantages in advance, in the order you'll add them.

Some possible disadvantages off the top of my head:
Rust never sleeps. Rust monsters do, but noisy parties wake them up.
Magnets. 'nuff said.
Vulnerability to electrical damage.
Racial enemies - the fey treat Absent Lords like undead, which is to say, very badly.
Some religions prevalent in your world think Absent Lords are demonically possessed (soul reaping does NOT help here).
A mad wizard collects Absent Lords for "study", which they seldom never survive.

O
M
G

Cheating just became fun! I like it!!!

[Garimeth]

I guess I'm a big softy, if a player has a concept I like to see if I can make it work.

This one needed a lot of work ...

Yeah I'm with you, I'm all about homebrew - means my player is more invested in their PC. Its not hard for me to make sure something is balanced.

[kaoskonfety]

I think I like the second version he sent me a tiny bit better, cause as others pointed out, Soul Syphon would end up always being his main attack (if not mostly, I mean, healing right?). Did you check it out?

I'd still be leaning on giving him a short ranged cantrip instead of 1/5 the damage - keep the damage die small, he gets half the HP, it slowly scales with level (or make it a d4 and he gets full damage healed? is there already a cantrip like this?) and he's resistant (not immune) to healing/harming effects. Between this and hit die recovery on rests it should feel around the slowly regenerating spirit that can eat life I think is being gone for. If "un-healing" is a definite thing they are pushing for that is also fine, but resistant will already discourage people using spell slot.

Taking a look at the rest...
"Reaper of Souls" is hard stop *NO* - its bloody excellent functions better against groups of foes and is a power I'd upgrade a little bit and assign a dracolich or similar big bad, not a PC at level 1.
Antimagic susceptibility seems way to niche a weakness, drop it. I might suggest vulnerable to radiance damage instead?

[Shining Wrath]

O
M
G

Cheating just became fun! I like it!!!

Glad to be helpful!

One other thing ... stuff can fall into his armor since it's empty. And it's difficult to get it out. And it rattles around and makes a racket. Impose a penalty on Stealth. Let him get rid of the penalty by taking ten minutes to have his armor cleaned out by one or more assistants.

[Tarrab]

Jajajajajaa, it falls off the wagon. Now he says to take out all methods of healing and just granting him regeneration equal to 1/2 level IF he rests for 4 hours. This guy HAS TO BE my next DM, I would homebrew a vampiric beholder-zerai!

[OldTrees1]

Jajajajajaa, it falls off the wagon. Now he says to take out all methods of healing and just granting him regeneration equal to 1/2 level IF he rests for 4 hours. This guy HAS TO BE my next DM, I would homebrew a vampiric beholder-zerai!

So return with something like this:
+1 Con, +1 any(Con again if you wish)
Constructed Nature: An Absent Lord does not require air or drink. He counts as a Construct for all spells and effects that affect both the living and constructs.

Immunities: Exhaustion, Petrified, Poisoned and Diseased.

Broken Soul: The Absent Lord cannot heal like a normal character. The effects of all type of Cure and Healing Spells have no effect on him, neither those who Inflict Wounds. He cannot be resurrected or revived once dead. He cannot imbed any type of potion. Spells that remove negative status like the Charmed condition do work on him, although only to remove the condition that affects him. Spells that give him morale or enhancement effects also work, including Temporary Hit points. He can also gain magical or morale bonuses from other effects besides spells, unless they must be eaten or drank.

Restless Soul: The Absent Lord cannot regain Hit Points from Long Rests. But he regains Hit Dice back the same as anyone else (half of his total amount spent every long rest).


Notes:
1) I changed it so Hit Dice are the only way they regain hp. Basically mini meditations.
2) I think this is underpowered. But that is the nature of haggling.
3) If he goes for this version, make sure his strengths come into play (submerged areas, poisonous creatures, ...).

[kaoskonfety]

Jajajajajaa, it falls off the wagon. Now he says to take out all methods of healing and just granting him regeneration equal to 1/2 level IF he rests for 4 hours. This guy HAS TO BE my next DM, I would homebrew a vampiric beholder-zerai!

"regeneration equal to 1/2 (or all of) level on a long rest (or some smaller amount on short)" - unless EVERY one has whacked recovery rules try to use the in game mechanisms as they appears at the very least - otherwise he will be at odds with everyone elses recover options/sleep cycle etc.

Increasingly this fellow is looking like they are just trying to be a special little snowflake.

They want to be an unhealing horror? Fine. Some options
- They have 1000 hp (or whatever number you feel is fair). Period. When they are gone they are dead. You may introduce some way to heal much later , after he's been sweating it hard for a while, and the healing is stupid expensive in some way (maybe it takes wishes, or 3 separate castings of fabricate and it uses up pounds of Mithril etc).
- The start each day or night at full - if they lose them over the day: dead
- Each time they possess a suit of armour (Can be done on a long rest) it is consumed and heals them to their maximum hp.
- they need to eat souls like a lich - not many, and not often, but literal immortal souls of say... elves, for their hit dice to continue to recover

[Bubzors]

Well, that was my first aim, but he is just so excited to break any possibilities of being killed! *Yawn*

I do have to admit that for someone who gets little to no healing, getting 1 hp every 5 would be little in a way. I mean he exposes himself at melee range and will heal 6 hp for every 30 he deals, that ain´t thaaaat much, right? And 1 every 10 in ranged? 10 for every 100? I mean, come on.

The soul eating thingy does seem evil, and I would rule it would end up making him evil if he uses it AAAAAALL THE TIIIIIIME. Oh, wait, are there good necromancers? *Shiver*

True it might not seem that much at first but take in mind the fact that he can somewhat consistently do around 15-20 damage for 3-4 health every attack. I'm afb right now but a cure potion does like 2d4+4 or something. So he regularly replicates a 50gp potion every two or three attacks. Of course this depends on level and class but with a barb taking half damage already it would be nuts.

Then add in the bonus action hd use, he will never trouble for health. unless he gets surprised with a butt load of damage in one round, he can always disengage, and heal back up using the hd.

[Balor777]

I had an idea this morning.Since this huys is a an etherial entity inside a metal shell he animates as a skin you can give him
the ability to regenerate his "body" by using metal.Something like 1 hp per 3 lbs of metal.He will loot metal pieces of weapons armor from the enemies
and thansform/engave it with his power to fill the damaged parts of the armor.
The Lbs of the weapons/armor can be found on the PH.You can rule that Heavy armor is 3/4s of metal medium 1/2 and some light armor 0to 1/4.
The same way martial weapons are 2/3s out of metal and basic weapons 1/3.
Its an interesting way of healing.The duration could be 1 round for each hp healed.
This way you can remove that syphon think most people seem to hate.

What do you think?

[Tarrab]

I had an idea this morning.Since this huys is a an etherial entity inside a metal shell he animates as a skin you can give him
the ability to regenerate his "body" by using metal.Something like 1 hp per 3 lbs of metal.He will loot metal pieces of weapons armor from the enemies
and thansform/engave it with his power to fill the damaged parts of the armor.
The Lbs of the weapons/armor can be found on the PH.You can rule that Heavy armor is 3/4s of metal medium 1/2 and some light armor 0to 1/4.
The same way martial weapons are 2/3s out of metal and basic weapons 1/3.
Its an interesting way of healing.The duration could be 1 round for each hp healed.
This way you can remove that syphon think most people seem to hate.

What do you think?

It does sound nice, although it might me a real pain to carry all them lbs on the mainly-wilderness centered adventure im making for them.

I dont know, im still not convinced. I had another talk with the player and he seems object on playing with this "thing". The sad issue is that he is actually one of the best players in my table rpg-wise...

[Balor777]

It does sound nice, although it might me a real pain to carry all them lbs on the mainly-wilderness centered adventure im making for them.

I dont know, im still not convinced. I had another talk with the player and he seems object on playing with this "thing". The sad issue is that he is actually one of the best players in my table rpg-wise...

Let it be then.
Make it like 1hp per lb of iron if you like.Make some calculations and give it a try.
This race should have a bizzare way of healing.Id definately give resistance to cold/fire and vulnerability to acid/electricity damage.Also he should have rsistance to non magical slashing/piercinng damage and vulnerability to Blund weapons.Dont be afaird to gve him some resistances because he will no mater what heal in combat.

[TheOldCrow]

Id definately give resistance to cold/fire and vulnerability to acid/electricity damage.Also he should have rsistance to non magical slashing/piercinng damage and vulnerability to Blund weapons.Dont be afaird to gve him some resistances because he will no mater what heal in combat.

Also remember that vulnerabilities hurt you twice as much as resistances help you. Several vulnerabilities to common types of damage will be very painful-- and probably not worth it.

[Abithrios]

I would probably let him heal normally, but come up with a different mechanism for action than simply magic gluing flesh back together. This would mean not needing to eat the souls of enemies. I would probably make it much more similar to existing races in general. You can let it eat the essence of dead animals instead of eating.

Immortality is not much of a problem unless you let know about history without spending background skills on it and you don't let them use it for crafting or something. Also, never let an immortal get access to a demiplane with time that flows faster than elsewhere.

Any attack that would normally harm flesh instead weakens its spirit, like a breeze threatening a candle. Anything that bolsters flesh strengthens the spirit like the bellows of a forge.

Also, the base ac of a normal character is 10+dex, not 10. Were you trying to make it 12+dex for this race?

[DireSickFish]

Alright well here is my take on it. His versions of it seem to have to much stuff.

Absent Lord
Speed: 30ft
Languages: Common
Con +2 Cha +1
Constructed:An Absent Lord does not require air or drink. Absent Lords are considered constructs. (I'm removing all the wording here about curing and inflict and what have you, seems needless. Cure spells say in there own wording if they work on constructs or not.)
Condition Immunities: Exhaustion, Petrified, Poisoned and Diseased
Damage Immunities/Resistances: None (note that while he is immune the the poisoned condition that imposes disadvantage, he is not immune to poison damage.)
Animated Armor: An Absent Lord inhabits a suit of armor. He starts the game inhabiting a suit of armor that gives him 12 + Dex bonus AC. During a short rest an Absent Lord can inhabit a new suit of armor that he is proficient in, gaining that armors bonus as his armor class. This destroys the suit he was previously inhabiting. Absent Lords can not benefit from Unarmored Defense.


Now Animated Armor is still more wordy than I would like, but it needs to be as his own mechanic. The conditional immunities are strong and flavorful, but being a construct does come with that healing disadvantage. Note that you are letting him regain full hp on a long rest and he spends HD as normal. So he has a way to intrinsically heal with-ought all that soul siphon garbage. Just fluff it as his soul repairing the armor itself but it takes concentration to do so, hence the long rest mechanic.

For long rests most races only need to be "asleep" for 6 hours, so I' could see making it so that in an 8 hour long rest he only needs to be "asleep" for 6 of it. And if he is at full health since he is immune to exhaustion he could just stand watch and skip resting to be a bodyguard.

Removed a lot of stuff, most of it was clunky and unnecessary to the theme. If he wants to do some soul sucking then he may need to think of a concept that isn't also a construct.

[Tarrab]

Alright well here is my take on it. His versions of it seem to have to much stuff.

Absent Lord
Speed: 30ft
Languages: Common
Con +2 Cha +1
Constructed:An Absent Lord does not require air or drink. Absent Lords are considered constructs. (I'm removing all the wording here about curing and inflict and what have you, seems needless. Cure spells say in there own wording if they work on constructs or not.)
Condition Immunities: Exhaustion, Petrified, Poisoned and Diseased
Damage Immunities/Resistances: None (note that while he is immune the the poisoned condition that imposes disadvantage, he is not immune to poison damage.)
Animated Armor: An Absent Lord inhabits a suit of armor. He starts the game inhabiting a suit of armor that gives him 12 + Dex bonus AC. During a short rest an Absent Lord can inhabit a new suit of armor that he is proficient in, gaining that armors bonus as his armor class. This destroys the suit he was previously inhabiting. Absent Lords can not benefit from Unarmored Defense.


Now Animated Armor is still more wordy than I would like, but it needs to be as his own mechanic. The conditional immunities are strong and flavorful, but being a construct does come with that healing disadvantage. Note that you are letting him regain full hp on a long rest and he spends HD as normal. So he has a way to intrinsically heal with-ought all that soul siphon garbage. Just fluff it as his soul repairing the armor itself but it takes concentration to do so, hence the long rest mechanic.

For long rests most races only need to be "asleep" for 6 hours, so I' could see making it so that in an 8 hour long rest he only needs to be "asleep" for 6 of it. And if he is at full health since he is immune to exhaustion he could just stand watch and skip resting to be a bodyguard.

Removed a lot of stuff, most of it was clunky and unnecessary to the theme. If he wants to do some soul sucking then he may need to think of a concept that isn't also a construct.

That ain´t bad. I did come with a solution that I like. I´m gonna use the mods you said and let him heal his Constitution mod X the HD he uses when he wants to heal up. He won´t be able to use any other method of healing, so bumping up the HD usea bit might be worthwhile and not dastardly OP. What do you think?

[DireSickFish]

That ain´t bad. I did come with a solution that I like. I´m gonna use the mods you said and let him heal his Constitution mod X the HD he uses when he wants to heal up. He won´t be able to use any other method of healing, so bumping up the HD usea bit might be worthwhile and not dastardly OP. What do you think?

I don't think I understand. Will you just be allowing him to use HD when he wants with-ought needing to short rest?

Or will you be multiplying his con modifier by his HD when he uses them? HD already give you HD+Con when using them for healing.

[Tarrab]

I don't think I understand. Will you just be allowing him to use HD when he wants with-ought needing to short rest?

Or will you be multiplying his con modifier by his HD when he uses them? HD already give you HD+Con when using them for healing.

Sorry, I was thinking something and wrote something else. He will only use HD during Short Rests and in their normal way, but will regain 1 HD if he himself kills a creature of at least half his CR every day. If not he will recharge them at half the HD used per long rest like everyone else. To get this effect he creature must effectively die and he must be standing in 30 feet. If he himself doesn´t strike the death blow, there is no effect.

[DireSickFish]

Sorry, I was thinking something and wrote something else. He will only use HD during Short Rests and in their normal way, but will regain 1 HD if he himself kills a creature of at least half his CR every day. If not he will recharge them at half the HD used per long rest like everyone else. To get this effect he creature must effectively die and he must be standing in 30 feet. If he himself doesn´t strike the death blow, there is no effect.

Doesn't seem OP, but it does seem a bit fiddly. As you're the DM you can deal with keeping track of CR's of creatures and such. If I was DMing I wouldn't want the headache. Be prepared to deal with the party leaving an enemy up for him to finish off.

[Tarrab]

Doesn't seem OP, but it does seem a bit fiddly. As you're the DM you can deal with keeping track of CR's of creatures and such. If I was DMing I wouldn't want the headache. Be prepared to deal with the party leaving an enemy up for him to finish off.

IF he can, sure. Also, to complicate things a bit, he cannot use HD or the curing meditative-trance thingy UNLESS he kills someone in this manner once a day. Here comes the inevitable evilness!!!:smallbiggrin:

[DireSickFish]

IF he can, sure. Also, to complicate things a bit, he cannot use HD or the curing meditative-trance thingy UNLESS he kills someone in this manner once a day. Here comes the inevitable evilness!!!:smallbiggrin:

Just going to encourage him to be a murderhobo. Seems unnecessary. I would not do this at all, as all parties need the resting mechanic. It's going to cause more problems than anything else. Just repte the manta: Races should not be fiddly. Races should not be fiddly.

[Tarrab]

Just going to encourage him to be a murderhobo. Seems unnecessary. I would not do this at all, as all parties need the resting mechanic. It's going to cause more problems than anything else. Just repte the manta: Races should not be fiddly. Races should not be fiddly.

Point taken. Is just the DM side of me that wants him to suffffffeeeerrrrrrrrrrrr

[DireSickFish]

Point taken. Is just the DM side of me that wants him to suffffffeeeerrrrrrrrrrrr

Then do it in game with monsters and difficult situations. Don't gimp his character from the get-go.

[McBars]

It sounds like way more of a pain in the ass than it's worth....and one of your players isn't okay with the idea.

I'd say no.

[Tarrab]

And so the day came that another player convinced him to become a Dwarven Elements Monk! (He didn´t make it to the previous session).

I am gonna use the race to create an undead construct city, but the species will not be selectable at all :smallamused: