Combat Familiar Madness [PF]

[Serafina]

So, the new Familiar Folio contains a lot of goodies.

The first notable one (in my opinion) is the Mauler familiar archetype. The main draw is that your familiar can at-will grow to medium size with an additional +2 to Strength. This would give a Tiny familiar +10 to Strength. There are plenty of tiny familiars with Strength 8 or higher (highest i could find was 13).
In addition your familiars Strength will keep growing in place of its Intelligence-growth.

This obviously has a lot of applications already.
Enter the Eldritch Guardian Fighter Archetype. In place of your second-level combat feat, your familiar shares ALL your combat feats with you. Weapon and Armor proficiency are combat feats.


Let's take a 8th-level master with two levels in Eldritch Guardian and 6 in Magus. Give him an Imp-familiar with the Mauler Archetype.
The Imp (in his medium-sized combat form) has Strength 23, a BAB of +6/+1 and has a Sting attack. He can turn Invisible at-will and has a 50 feet perfect fly-speed. He can wear any armor and use any weapon and profits from any combat-feats his master has.
Take the Evolved Familiar feat and grant our Imp Pounce to boot.

More synergy can probably be built in a lot of ways, including teamwork feats (which are shared due to most being combat-feats).



The second main application is to get a mount for any small-sized character. Any Alchemist, Bard, Druid, Fighter, Magus, Paladin, Sorcerer, Witch or Wizard (or anyone who takes the new familiar-granting feats) could use a 60-foot perfect flight speed from riding a pseudodragon.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Hmm... a melee familiar. Question, is there a Hamster familiar?

[Serafina]

No, but you could maybe base one off a Racoon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/raccoon).
When your hamster suddenly grows to large size it has an +5 1D6+6 Bite attack (based on you being a level 3 Wizard).

Which is actually rather tame, the real madness begins when you get into Improved Familiars.

[unbutu]

Oh my ! Google found the secret page ! (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/familiar-folio):P ( It's hidden in magic items, and seems to be a placeholder for most of the Familiar Folio content, including archetypes that give paladins familiars, spell-specialised familiars, and all the stuff.)

[NightbringerGGZ]

Yep! I've been reading through the secret page today. Somebody forgot to update their Robots.txt file. :smallsmile:

Ok, so I really want to recreate Minsc and Boo now. I can get a decent Minsc build on the fighter chasis, letting me pick up Boo as a custom familiar. Boo probably should be a familiar with non-combat abilities, but I feel like taking some creative license and using Mauler to build a combat ready Boo.

I can refluff an existing familiar to act as a Hamster, but to do this right I need think our Miniature Giant Space Hamster should find ways to grow as large as possible and get the Swallow Whole ability.

Anybody have some ideas?

[oxybe]

So I'm playing a Witch and we just finished the War of the River Kings part of the Kingmaker adventure path and have some downtime. Found unbutu's link and took a gander.

My brain just farted.

Be a Synergist Witch

Learn the Swarm Skin spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/swarm-skin).

Share the spell on your familiar, have it become several swarms. We'll say 1 wasp swarm, 1 centipede swarm.

Meld with swarm(swarms?).

Wat.

[unbutu]

Featherleaf Barding
Price 7,310 gp; Slot armor; CL 9th; Weight 1 lb.; Aura faint transmutation

DESCRIPTION

This enchanted sleeve is made of tiny, feather-shaped leaves and is designed to fit birds. Once fitted over the body of a Tiny or smaller avian creature, featherleaf barding automatically shrinks to snugly fit the creature's torso and neck, serving as +1 leather armor (granting a total bonus to AC of +2). The maximum fly speed of a creature wearing featherleaf barding is 60 feet with average maneuverability. In forests, jungles, and thickly wooded areas, the wearer can fly through branches, brush, and even whole tree trunks as if they weren't there , though its fly speed and maneuverability remain the same.

Ohhhh my. Tiny or smaller armored birds flying in a straight line trough anything a forest is made of *without slowing down* ! Real bulldozers made of feathers and leather armor !


Spell-Sharing Collar
Price 7,500 gp; Slot neck; CL 10th; Weight 1 lb.; Aura moderate evocation

DESCRIPTION

This thick leather collar is studded with onyx gems and fastened with a simple metal clasp. Spell-sharing collars come in a variety of sizes and can be secured around the neck of any creature capable of wearing and using a neck-slot item. They are usually sold in sets.

A creature with the share spells ability (such as an animal companion or familiar) wearing a spell-sharing collar can benefit from that ability with any other creature wearing such a collar that is attuned to its own collar, rather than gaining the benefit only with its bonded master. Attuning two or more spell-sharing collars takes 10 minutes, during which time the collars must be touching one another. A spell-sharing collar can have as many as three other spell-sharing collars attuned to it at once. The granted ability otherwise functions as a familiar's share spells ability.

Ohhhhhhh You could buff a lot of stuff with a single casting: a party of 4 with 4 familiars can have 1 mage cast a shared spell, and 5 will benefit from it !

----------


Range touch
Effect temporary duplicate of familiar touched
Duration 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw Fort negates; Spell Resistance no

DESCRIPTION

You create a duplicate of a familiar. The familiar's master can use the duplicate as if it were his familiar in all respects, though he doesn't gain the bonus special ability from more than one familiar at a time. When the spell's duration expires, the familiar duplicate shrivels into nothing, even if petrified or otherwise transformed.

School necromancy; Level shaman 5, sorcerer/wizard 5, witch 5

Empathy Conduit

Wait wait. You use the mauler archetype you described to make a heavy hitter. Everyone in the party takes one. They all have spell-sharing collars.

Now, you can duplicate all those maulers, making 4 of them for 10min/lvl. This way you can keep your real familiar safe, and send those summons to their deaths instead :)

[grarrrg]

Weapon and Armor proficiency are combat feats.

Only if you actually take them as feats.
If granted by a Class Feature they do NOT count (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qdj) as Feats.

[Sayt]

Only if you actually take them as feats.
If granted by a Class Feature they do NOT count (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qdj) as Feats.

On the other hand, Outsiders get martial weapons with their HD.

Also, the pounce evolution requires you to be a quadruped bodyform, so Imp wouldn't qualify.

That said, I do want to make a death-orb Auger Kyton familiar :D

[Coidzor]

Also, the pounce evolution requires you to be a quadruped bodyform, so Imp wouldn't qualify.

Obviously when/if Paizo rules on it, it'll be ruled invalid, but Imps do have a quadruped alternate form. Well, unless they go with giant spiders which are more than quadruped and thus ??? or ravens which are birds and thus probably bipedal.

So unless there's a requirement that one stay in a quadrupedal form in order to continue benefiting from pounce...

[grarrrg]

On the other hand, Outsiders get martial weapons with their HD.

Do note that you still need an actual racial HD (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lhtm?Clarification-request-Do-AasimarsTiefling#11) in "Outsider" to qualify.
And even then I think we're back into the 'intent' which likely meshes with the Fighter-Prof-FAQ-ruling of "you must have the _actual_ feat".

[Coidzor]

Do note that you still need an actual racial HD (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lhtm?Clarification-request-Do-AasimarsTiefling#11) in "Outsider" to qualify.
And even then I think we're back into the 'intent' which likely meshes with the Fighter-Prof-FAQ-ruling of "you must have the _actual_ feat".

Did I miss something that makes Imps lose their 3 Outsider HD or that changes them into some other kind of HD when they become familiars? :smallconfused:

[Serafina]

Well

Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.
I suppose you could argue that they therefore no longer have any of the abilities granted by their racial HD, but thats a pretty big stretch as far as i can tell. Because the Imp still has racial HD, at most their actual amount gets replaced with something higher.

Good point on the Pounce-evolution and Eldritch Guardian feat interaction though. I guess you won't put your Imp into plate armor then (unless gaining armor proficiency from a class feature, say while playing a Magus, qualifies).

So its still a good dip for a Gish-build. And doesn't even affect the familiars that rely on natural weapons anyway. Or the use of that ability to acquire a mount.

[Yanisa]

Obviously when/if Paizo rules on it, it'll be ruled invalid, but Imps do have a quadruped alternate form. Well, unless they go with giant spiders which are more than quadruped and thus ??? or ravens which are birds and thus probably bipedal.

So unless there's a requirement that one stay in a quadrupedal form in order to continue benefiting from pounce...

Well the full requirement is a "quadruped base form", so that doesn't sound like an "quadruped alternate form" could work. It also means the amount of legs don't matter, because even a "quadruped base form" eidolon can have 20 legs (but not 2, so no birds). But this is very to the letter.

Edit: by this interpretation tat also means you don't have to stay quadrupedal, but still that won't help our imp.

[grarrrg]

I suppose you could argue that they therefore no longer have any of the abilities granted by their racial HD, but thats a pretty big stretch as far as i can tell. Because the Imp still has racial HD, at most their actual amount gets replaced with something higher.

Well, he may be right, the intro paragraph (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar) to Familiars says "It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type."

Which implies an Imp still has Outsider HD.
Later on:
"Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.

Hit Points: The familiar has half the master's total hit points (not including temporary hit points), rounded down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice."

So for most all intents and purposes it is treated as having your HD/HP, but it still technically has it's own, different HD.


So Imp's probably still get Martial prof., but they still don't get Armor Prof. (at least not by "master has Fighter level"-type stuff).

[N. Jolly]

Okay, the idea I'm loving now is Homunculist Vivisectionist Alchemist taking Tumor familiar as their second level discovery, with both familiars taking the Mauler Archetype, both getting the buffs due to Infusion, although it'd be even BETTER if Improved Familiar (which works with Tumor Familiars) worked on both of your familiars, although that might be overkill. It would let you get double duty on taking the Mauler's Endurance feat. It's debatable on if you could get double duty for Evolved Familiar too.

Please let me know if there's anything that's disallowing this, since as far as I know, you could pull this off.

Also since both of the familiars are non standard, there's (very little) room to argue you could take the feats to give you ANOTHER familiar, but since it doesn't get certain qualities, it doesn't qualify for Mauler, so it's pretty low tier on the things that you actually want...maybe Improved Familiar Bond would let you take an archetype with it, in which case you have your own army.

[swebo]

Okay, the idea I'm loving now is Homunculist Vivisectionist Alchemist taking Tumor familiar as their second level discovery, with both familiars taking the Mauler Archetype, both getting the buffs due to Infusion, although it'd be even BETTER if Improved Familiar (which works with Tumor Familiars) worked on both of your familiars, although that might be overkill. It would let you get double duty on taking the Mauler's Endurance feat. It's debatable on if you could get double duty for Evolved Familiar too.

Please let me know if there's anything that's disallowing this, since as far as I know, you could pull this off.

Also since both of the familiars are non standard, there's (very little) room to argue you could take the feats to give you ANOTHER familiar, but since it doesn't get certain qualities, it doesn't qualify for Mauler, so it's pretty low tier on the things that you actually want...maybe Improved Familiar Bond would let you take an archetype with it, in which case you have your own army.

if you take carnivalist 2, each familiars will have full sneak attack progression on their natural attacks. Eldritch guardian 2 will also allow you to give them combat feats(like gang up). your turn can get rather long when you have to roll 50d6 :)

[Bashamo]

The main draw [of the Mauler Archetype] is that your familiar can at-will grow to medium size with an additional +2 to Strength. This would give a Tiny familiar +10 to Strength
In an unofficial clarification, the guy who wrote the archetype says that battle form is polymorph effect and uses the polymorph table to determine stat changes.
A tiny familiar going to medium would gain +4 STR/-2 DEX, on top of the flat +2 STR and +1 from the scaling strength bonus. So a total of +7, not +10, at level 3 when you get battle form.
Just clarifying for anyone else that Googles their way in here.

[Gnaeus]

Quick note. You can't put mauler on an Imp or other improved familiar. Mauler trades away speak with animals of kind, which improved familiars do not get. I think this was on purpose.