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Tor the Fallen
2007-04-03, 10:43 AM
Theoretically, I can do it in 13 levels.

Class: Psion 13 (telepath)
Race: Deep Imaskari, +2 int, -2 dex
Abilities: Intelligence needs to be 18, all physical stats must be above 6, while dex must be above 8 (easy to do with 32 point buy).
Age category: Venerable

Total int score: 23, after items,

Feats: 7 feats, 5 from levels, 2 bonus from psion.
You only need six; psicrystal affinity, psicrystal containment, Power Penetration, greater Power Penetration, psionic endowment, greater psionic endowment

Items: +6 headband of intellect (36k), +1 tome of clear thought(27.5k), Psionatrix of telepathy(8k), Third eye penetrate(8k)


Powers: Dominate, Psionic and Overland Flight, psionic.

Strategy:
Cast overland flight, follow tarrasque, staying more than 60 ft away from it, in the air.

Dominate it. Spend 7 pp to manifest power, + 4 to make it last 1 day/level +2 to make it affect magic beasts = 13 pp spent
Manifester check to overcome its SR 32 (PR) = 13 (levels psion) + 4 (power level) + 8 (feat, and expended focus) + 2 (item) = 1d20 + 27. You must roll a 5 or higher. Very possible.
DC for tarraque to save against = 10 + 10 (from int) + 4 (power level) + 2 (feat, expend psionic focus from psicrystal) + 3 (augmented) +1 (item, psionatrix) = DC 30 will save

The tarrasque has a will save of +20. Half the time he fails to make it.

Number of times/day you can attempt to dominate:
147 (pp/ day, from being a psion) + 65 (bonus) -11 (overland flight) = 201 pp
/ 13 per dominate attempt
= 15 attempts per day (if you buy power stones of overland flight, you can manifest 16 times / day)

If, somehow, all 15 attempts fail to dominate it (unlikely), fly off, take a power nap, and try again.

Congratulations, you now have a pet tarrasque for at least 13 days. Now to get rid of the beast....


What's the lowest you can defeat the beast, without resorting to leadership, big pits, or stuffing bags of holding into portable holes.

Ramos
2007-04-03, 10:55 AM
That is incorrect. It can be done at a lower level. It can be done from as low a level as 10 with a sorceror. Telekinetically hurling poison (typically contact poison) that does ability drain-especially constitution drain-is the best way.

martyboy74
2007-04-03, 11:04 AM
7th level wizard summins Allips at it (Summon Undead IV) until it has no wisdom score. It goes catatonic, you win.

Note: This isn't mine, it's been around forever.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-04-03, 11:05 AM
My gestalts did it at level 6, but that included quite heavy deus ex machina to accomplish (they were with an army that had a good supply of siege weapons, and the players were loaned a luck blade for the finishing blow).

Illiterate Scribe
2007-04-03, 11:08 AM
Level 1 venerable human Expert with maxed out know:the planes?

Sorry, but it had to be said.

JackMage666
2007-04-03, 11:11 AM
Could a 1st level caster do it with the Throw Item spell in the Spell Compendium, if they managed to get their hands on some good Con poison?

Edit - Or, you could use Craft:Poisonmaking to aid you in the checks to make it yourself. Now, all you need is the right plants.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-04-03, 11:20 AM
Big T is immune to Ability Damage, so all the Allip/Poison ideas won't wash.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-03, 11:24 AM
That is incorrect. It can be done at a lower level. It can be done from as low a level as 10 with a sorceror. Telekinetically hurling poison (typically contact poison) that does ability drain-especially constitution drain-is the best way.

What part is incorrect?


Your strategy doesn't work. The tarrasque is immune to both ability drain and ability damage.

Even if it did work, you have some serious problems. Constitution is his second highest stat. Even getting his con down to 1, even with his fort save 20 less, he'll only fail contact poison saves on a natural one.

I think you can get enough poison at your level.

Let's see.

Nitharit Contact DC 13 0 3d6 Con 650 gp

You're going to need 35 (total con) / 3 (number of dice) * 3.5 (averag con damage per die) * 20 (average number of attempts before Mr. T fails a save) = 67 doses= 43,550 gold. You can manage that.

Telekineses moves an object 20 ft per round. You're going to need to stay back at least 60 feat to keep from fleeing in panic. That's 3 rounds minimum to move your poison to the tarrasque. Unlikely that the big guy is standing still, or moving less that 20 ft/round for 20 straight rounds. Maybe if you're lucky, which, I guess, if you wait around all day, you will get lucky.

You'd be much better off using this poison:
Malyss root paste Contact DC 16 1 Dex 2d4 Dex 500 gp
Cheaper, and the tarrasque only has 16 dex.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-03, 11:26 AM
Constitution is a poor poison to use for something with as high saves and ability. Better to target a stat that isn't 35.

That, and as has already been pointed out, the tarrasque is immune to that sort of stuff.

martyboy74
2007-04-03, 11:31 AM
The Tarrasque (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/tarrasque.htm) is, in fact, only immune to ability damage. Not drain. Please look these things up before you say that other people are wrong.

Caduceus
2007-04-03, 11:33 AM
Regeneration (Ex)

No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.

The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.

If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

You need access to either wish or miracle to actually kill the Tarrasque.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-03, 11:34 AM
You need access to either wish or miracle to actually kill the Tarrasque.

I know.
Check the title of the thread.
:smallwink:

martyboy74
2007-04-03, 11:34 AM
You need access to either wish or miracle to actually kill the Tarrasque.

The OP says "defeat", not "kill".

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-03, 11:48 AM
But anyone have any major disputes with my method to get a tarrasque as your pet?

Caduceus
2007-04-03, 11:51 AM
Why do you need another dominate-able creature within range, again?

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-03, 11:53 AM
Why do you need another dominate-able creature within range, again?

Oh, did I leave that in?
That was to get the DC up another point, if you were level 14 and had a torc of psionic something or other. Spending 2 pts to dominate an extra creature boosts the DC by one.

I excised that bit, when I realized you had to be level 14. Looks like I missed some.

ocato
2007-04-03, 11:54 AM
I miss the good old days where 4-6 adventurers form a party and fight challenging monsters with strategy and friendship.

That (above) was a joke.

I find it funny that people spend a lot of time going over the rules to form a character who can defeat the Tarrasque alone. I respect the scholarship and the idea that it is pretty much thought-fun, but wow. People don't really make these characters do they? DMs must hate that.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-03, 12:01 PM
I miss the good old days where 4-6 adventurers form a party and fight challenging monsters with strategy and friendship.

That (above) was a joke.

I find it funny that people spend a lot of time going over the rules to form a character who can defeat the Tarrasque alone. I respect the scholarship and the idea that it is pretty much thought-fun, but wow. People don't really make these characters do they? DMs must hate that.

I dunno. I thought this would be a pretty standard telepath build. While going over the powers for telepath, I realized it would be pretty easy to get recoculously high will saves to keep from being dominated. Then I thought, would it work on a tarrasque? Yeah, yeah it would.
All this information is on the SRD, too, so it's not like I dug through any arcane supplements or back issues of Dragon Magazine.

Personally, I'm a little surprised I haven't heard of this before. With the feat to focus your psionic focus as a move action, you could have the tarrasque as a pet in as few as 30 rounds (probably a little more, since it'd be running around and you'd have to chase after it). And it doesn't even require nebulous rules lawyering, or "alright, I rebuke some allips...."

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-03, 12:17 PM
Indeed, part of the fun of threads like these is revealing how...easy it can be to do things that are supposed to be challenging for a 20th-level party. The best charopt builds are the ones that appear almost effortless, don't involve levels in 8 different PrCs, and are something that non-munchkin might actually want to play.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-04-03, 12:38 PM
I love thinking up powerful combos a lot, but I hardly ever play them. Honestly, I prefer to be a jack-of-all-trades with a heavy emphasis on stealth and trickery (this is a stealth mission, Einstrauss! Procure weapons on site!). When I DM, I purposely find exploitable ways to defeat power building munchkins in order to keep the difficulty level up. So it's usually a very bad idea to try loading up on cheese to beat my campaigns.

Love playing a super wizard that defeats everything with save-or-lose spells? Be prepared to meet several high SR enemies. Like playing bards because you think they're funny? Be prepared to be rewarded with thematic gear/abilities.

Jacob Orlove
2007-04-03, 12:39 PM
You need access to either wish or miracle to actually kill the Tarrasque.
Candle of Invocation is 8,400 GP. Gate in a Solar or something, have them cast the Wish for you.

Falconsflight
2007-04-03, 12:46 PM
Level 1 Commoner who got his hands on a Rod of rulership. (Hint: Tarrasque only has a int of 3)

There. Now nobody will mess with the level 1 commoner again!

Swordguy
2007-04-03, 12:59 PM
2nd ed PCs. 4 of them. 6th level. One scoll of Rock to Mud. One scroll of Mud to Rock. One scroll of Permenancy.

No depth limit to the Rock to Mud: Priceless.

JaronK
2007-04-03, 01:02 PM
Commoner, of whatever level you have to be for a Candle of Invocation to be within your WBL allotment. Use it to summon and Efreeti. Use all three wishes to get three more Candles. Repeat until you have a ton. Use Candles to gate in 20 Solars to beat the Terrasque senseless, and one Efreeti to Wish it dead.

Yehaw.

JaronK

Marius
2007-04-03, 01:23 PM
You can do it before using Overchannel

PinkysBrain
2007-04-03, 01:30 PM
You need access to either wish or miracle to actually kill the Tarrasque.He is only immune against effects which would instantly kill it which allow a save.

Effects which would instantly kill it which don't allow a save are fair game.

martyboy74
2007-04-03, 01:38 PM
He is only immune against effects which would instantly kill it which allow a save.

Effects which would instantly kill it which don't allow a save are fair game.




Regeneration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#regeneration) (Ex (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#extraordinaryAbilities))

No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#savingThrows) against a disintegrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/disintegrate.htm) spell or a death effect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#deathAttacks). If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#nonlethalDamage) equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#mummyRot), a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#clayGolem) cursed wound ability.

The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#nonlethalDamage) total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm) or miracle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/miracle.htm) spell to keep it dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead).

If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.You didn't see anything...

Ramza00
2007-04-03, 01:43 PM
A scroll of Teleportation circle, perhaps combine with a scroll of permanency,
some bait, and a very nasty destination (the inside of a volcano perhaps?) Teleportation circle is based off Teleport, Greater which has no range.

Gamebird
2007-04-03, 02:05 PM
I read somewhere that the lowest level for a party of four was 6th. All specialist evokers, I think - whatever Melf's Acid Arrow was. Maybe sorcerers. But anyway, they each come equipped with a rod of empower and a wand of high level, extended Melf's Acid Arrow. And a couple scrolls of Wish (which I think was just barely within their combined WBL - maybe it was just one scroll). They start the combat by casting Fly and moving out of big T's Jump range. Then they start casting. At first big T's round-by-round healing easily trumps the damage, but after a while the math takes over and he can't heal fast enough. Then the scroll is read.

Jacob Orlove
2007-04-03, 02:46 PM
Commoner, of whatever level you have to be for a Candle of Invocation to be within your WBL allotment. Use it to summon and Efreeti. Use all three wishes to get three more Candles. Repeat until you have a ton. Use Candles to gate in 20 Solars to beat the Terrasque senseless, and one Efreeti to Wish it dead.

Yehaw.

JaronK
This works better with a party of four, because you can combine all your cash to achieve Candle-dominance at level 3, or lower if you spend a lot of time crafting and then selling magic items (but you'll need feats that either reduce your costs, or increase your sale price).

martyboy74
2007-04-03, 02:52 PM
I read somewhere that the lowest level for a party of four was 6th. All specialist evokers, I think - whatever Melf's Acid Arrow was. Maybe sorcerers. But anyway, they each come equipped with a rod of empower and a wand of high level, extended Melf's Acid Arrow. And a couple scrolls of Wish (which I think was just barely within their combined WBL - maybe it was just one scroll). They start the combat by casting Fly and moving out of big T's Jump range. Then they start casting. At first big T's round-by-round healing easily trumps the damage, but after a while the math takes over and he can't heal fast enough. Then the scroll is read.
Average damage for the 4 of them is 60 points. That's gonna take awhile.

\/ Oops, I misread it. I've really got to stop doing that sort of stuff...

Rigeld2
2007-04-03, 03:36 PM
Average damage for the 4 of them is 60 points. That's gonna take awhile.
Acid Arrow damage stacks. So since theyre extended, you can get 12 rounds out of each arrow. And 4 more land every round.

5 damage average per arrow, damage overcomes regeneration starting the third round. The first round arrows still have 9 more turns to go. IE:

0,0,20,40,60,80,100,120,140,160,180,200, stabilizing at 200 (due to arrows wearing off and needing to be refreshed). Big T is at -42 at round 11 (assuming all the arrows hit, which isnt a huge assumption considering the touch AC of 5).

edit: Thats just using wands. If they cast thier own Empowered AAs, the damage goes up.

Sam K
2007-04-03, 04:05 PM
I feel so sorry for the poor tarrasque, everyone wants to kill him! Is there any surprise he behaves the way he does? He just needs to be hugged, people!

Vik
2007-04-03, 04:17 PM
I read somewhere that the lowest level for a party of four was 6th. All specialist evokers, I think - whatever Melf's Acid Arrow was. Maybe sorcerers. But anyway, they each come equipped with a rod of empower and a wand of high level, extended Melf's Acid Arrow. And a couple scrolls of Wish (which I think was just barely within their combined WBL - maybe it was just one scroll).
Rod of empower (lesser) : 9,000 gp - and they can't craft it (CL 17).
Wand of high level, extended MAA : say CL 6 (not high at all), that's 13,500 gp. Assuming they craft it, we're down to 6,750 gp.
WBL for a lvl 6 : 13,000 gp. Already blown up.

And then, they had enough cash to pay the 28,500 gp ? Even if they only have the wand (home crafted), they can have only 25,000 gp. Not enough cash :smalltongue:

Mewtarthio
2007-04-03, 04:20 PM
I feel so sorry for the poor tarrasque, everyone wants to kill him! Is there any surprise he behaves the way he does? He just needs to be hugged, people!

Hm... If a Werebear Animal 6 / PsiWar 7 maifests Expansion fully augmented while in hybrid form, he might be able to do it... If only the fearsome weretyrannosaur didn't have so many Racial HD...

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-03, 04:25 PM
Rod of empower (lesser) : 9,000 gp - and they can't craft it (CL 17).
Wand of high level, extended MAA : say CL 6 (not high at all), that's 13,500 gp. Assuming they craft it, we're down to 6,750 gp.
WBL for a lvl 6 : 13,000 gp. Already blown up.

And then, they had enough cash to pay the 28,500 gp ? Even if they only have the wand (home crafted), they can have only 25,000 gp. Not enough cash :smalltongue:

Wouldn't a party of 4 six levels have 4 * 13k gold?

Clementx
2007-04-03, 04:38 PM
All you need to do is summon or command an allip- something you can do at lvl1 arcane casting with scrolls you can afford. The Tarrasque can't hit incorporeal foes, and goes into a coma from wisdom drain in less than a minute of getting hit. He can run (that is Run and Rush, not double move) faster than allips, but only in good terrain. You don't even have to get within a mile with a couple Commanded allips. Summoning them as you pace the T while Flying (requiring your own spell slots or more cash- lvl3-4) will kill him faster and let you herd him a bit, but not necessary.

This is why I ruled that penetrating DR as magic let you hit incorporeal foes as magic as well.

Vik
2007-04-03, 04:52 PM
All you need to do is summon or command an allip- something you can do at lvl1 arcane casting with scrolls you can afford. The Tarrasque can't hit incorporeal foes, That's untrue. Big T has DR 15/epic, and :

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#enhancementBonus). Such creatures’ natural weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons) are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Meaning that its natural weapons are considered magical, and thus can hit a incorporeal creature - with a 50% miss chance.

Karsh
2007-04-03, 04:54 PM
No, it specifically states that it is only for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

DR =/= Miss Chance.

Natural weapons of a creature with X/Magic DR are not +0 magical natural attacks, they just bypass DR/Magic.

Clementx
2007-04-03, 05:13 PM
Meaning that its natural weapons are considered magical, and thus can hit a incorporeal creature - with a 50% miss chance.
Now they can because I said they can in my campaign. Otherwise, no, they do nothing else but penetrate damage reduction. Notice that, "for purposes of..." part? Its not an example- it is a specific condition.

A stupid one I fixed.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-04-03, 05:46 PM
Acid Arrow damage stacks. So since theyre extended, you can get 12 rounds out of each arrow. And 4 more land every round.

5 damage average per arrow, damage overcomes regeneration starting the third round. The first round arrows still have 9 more turns to go. IE:

0,0,20,40,60,80,100,120,140,160,180,200, stabilizing at 200 (due to arrows wearing off and needing to be refreshed). Big T is at -42 at round 11 (assuming all the arrows hit, which isnt a huge assumption considering the touch AC of 5).

edit: Thats just using wands. If they cast thier own Empowered AAs, the damage goes up.


Carapace (Ex (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#extraordinaryAbilities))

The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicMissile.htm) spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellResistance).

30% of those Melf's Acid Arrows are returned to sender, postage due. This would probably kill the wizards before killing Big T.

Jacob Orlove
2007-04-03, 06:16 PM
Well, considering that the other 70% are "merely negated", I'm pretty sure the Wizards would die before getting any damage in--or at least, that'd be the case if Melf's Acid Arrow was a ray, line, cone, or Magic Missile. Its effect line actually says "one arrow of acid" which makes it none of the above.

Kel_Arath
2007-04-03, 07:25 PM
poster dude, your calculations are flawed and it is more likely to resist your dominate than you are to break its SR. people that are saying level 1 commoners with the 100k worth of items, your about 999.99.98 money to high for a commoner. other people with the other stuff, ill say it now, the only way to stop it is by subdueling it down (in one round) and before its turn wish it away, that is the only way to kill it.
ps,dude with the alip, it is impossible for it to fail the will save

Clementx
2007-04-03, 08:10 PM
ps,dude with the alip, it is impossible for it to fail the will save

Wisdom Drain (Su): An allip causes 1d4 points of Wisdom drain each time it hits with its incorporeal touch attack. On each such successful attack, it gains 5 temporary hit points.
PS, dude that doesn't read, show me where the Tarrasque gets a Will save. Incidentally, there is a 5% chance per allip that the T will succumb to Babble, but that has nothing to do with the scenario I pointed out.

JaronK
2007-04-03, 08:24 PM
poster dude, your calculations are flawed and it is more likely to resist your dominate than you are to break its SR. people that are saying level 1 commoners with the 100k worth of items, your about 999.99.98 money to high for a commoner. other people with the other stuff, ill say it now, the only way to stop it is by subdueling it down (in one round) and before its turn wish it away, that is the only way to kill it.
ps,dude with the alip, it is impossible for it to fail the will save

I didn't specify the level of the commoner, and you only need one Candle of Invocation to get an endless supply of wishes (use the Candle to get an Efreeti, use three wishes on more Candles).

That's about 3kgp, I believe, which should be within the WBL of a lowish level commoner... 6, I think?

JaronK

Rigeld2
2007-04-03, 08:26 PM
30% of those Melf's Acid Arrows are returned to sender, postage due. This would probably kill the wizards before killing Big T.
Wrong. The carapace only reflects "rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicMissile.htm) spells." Acid Arrow is none of those.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-04-03, 08:38 PM
I believe Melf's Acid Arrow falls under the heading of Ray, as a 'ranged touch attack'. At least, that's how it's run in every game I've been in. I can't find anything in the SRD to conclusively state one way or the other that it is or is not a ray, although it meets the Ray's definition.



Ray

Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#touchAttacks) rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#invisible) creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover) for the creature you’re aiming at.
If a ray spell has a duration, it’s the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists.
If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#criticalHits) just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.

Melf's Acid Arrows are aimed as a ranged weapon, using a touch attack, and can crit on a nat 20... sounds like one to me.

Emperor Tippy
2007-04-03, 08:40 PM
Melf's Acid Arrows are aimed as a ranged weapon, using a touch attack, and can crit on a nat 20... sounds like one to me.

Does the effect line of Acid Arrow say ray? No. Therefore RAW Acid Arrow is not a ray.

Rigeld2
2007-04-03, 08:41 PM
Acid Arrow has the following for an effect line:

(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#effect) Effect: One arrow of acid
Scorching Ray has the following for an effect line:

Effect (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#effect): One or more rays
Rays state that they are Rays. Acid Arrow doesnt say that it is, so it isnt.

Mewtarthio
2007-04-03, 08:42 PM
Ah, but a Ray fires a line of magical energy that carry a specific effect. Acid Arrow summons up an aerodynamically-shaped gob of acid and launches it towards the Tarrasque.

I wonder, though, if it would be safe to assume that these proposed Tarrasque Hunters have not sold all their possessions to get the One Item that can kill Big T...

Merlin the Tuna
2007-04-03, 08:49 PM
I believe Melf's Acid Arrow falls under the heading of Ray, as a 'ranged touch attack'.If being a ranged touch attack indicates something is a ray, that would mean that vials of acid, alchemist's fire, or lantern oil are also rays.

So yeah, echoing the sentiments of "No."

Darrin
2007-04-03, 09:04 PM
Wrong. The carapace only reflects "rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicMissile.htm) spells." Acid Arrow is none of those.

I've been pondering if a 3rd level wizard with Brew Potion, Ray of Clumsiness, and Minor Image (make the potion look like a pork chop/rabbit/etc.) might have some success disabling a Tarrasque. But I guess that's ability damage, not drain, and it wouldn't work.

A whole buncha pills of Enervation might do the trick.

Rigeld2
2007-04-03, 09:15 PM
DC to UMD a scroll of Trap The Soul: 28.
Price of a gem to contain T's soul: 50,000gp (rounded).
Price of a pony that you tie the gem to: 30gp.
Skill Focus (+3), Synergy (+4 total), Magical Aptitude (+2 bonus), Charisma (+4) allowing you to have a level 12 NPC class defeat the Tarasque: Priceless.

edit: Yeah, youd have to have some sugar daddies to front him the cash for the gem, but meh.

Ramza00
2007-04-03, 09:30 PM
I believe Melf's Acid Arrow falls under the heading of Ray, as a 'ranged touch attack'. At least, that's how it's run in every game I've been in. I can't find anything in the SRD to conclusively state one way or the other that it is or is not a ray, although it meets the Ray's definition.

Melf's Acid Arrows are aimed as a ranged weapon, using a touch attack, and can crit on a nat 20... sounds like one to me.
Reasonable DM houserule, not RAW though.

Thus Acid Arrows and Orbs are all in for tarrasque killing.

Ramza00
2007-04-03, 09:31 PM
So no comment about the simple teleportation circle combo I mentioned? :(

Emperor Tippy
2007-04-03, 09:32 PM
TC allows SR. So get Big T to run threw it until you beat his SR and it works.

Rigeld2
2007-04-03, 09:36 PM
It works (from what I can see) but doesnt really "defeat" him (imo). Plus, it leaves a permanent circle there for all eternity, that leads to death.

the_tick_rules
2007-04-03, 09:41 PM
I like my idea. the tarrasque has an int of 3 and is described as basically being hunger. create a colossal one-way portal to someplace charming, say the elemental plane of water, or the negative energy plane, or even hell or the abyss if your feeling like ruining evils day. Then stack a bunch of beef in front of it and boom, it's another plane's problem

Ramza00
2007-04-03, 09:48 PM
It works (from what I can see) but doesnt really "defeat" him (imo). Plus, it leaves a permanent circle there for all eternity, that leads to death.

Yes it is "defeating" the tarrasque, the tarrasque is an encounter.


From DMG page 51

Combat: Combat encounters can be divided into two groups: attack and defense. Typically, the PCs are on the attack, invading monsters’ lairs and exploring dungeons. A defense encounter, in which the PCs must keep an area, an object, or a person safe from the enemy, can be a nice change of pace.
...
Problem-Solving: Mysteries, puzzles, riddles, or anything that requires the players to use logic and reason to try to overcome the challenge counts as a problem-solving encounter.
Saving a village or something similar from a tarrasque threat can be an offensive, defensive, or problem solving encounter. Teleporting the tarrasque half away around the world so he is someone else's problem is "defeating him." Or you can teleport him to some lethal place such as volcano or the bottom of an ocean where the tarrasque will continuously take nonlethal damage till he dies from drowning or the lava.

---

Emperor Tippy you are right about the spell resistance I forgot about that. Well the scroll SR is 17+1d20 thus roll a of 15 or higher or 1/4 of the time the Tarrasque will be affected. Regardless to lure and keep on luring till it works will probably require some method of flight, and "a carrot on a stick, either harassing or teasing the tarrasque to the circle goes off" thus add the scroll of overland flight to the list of stuff you need.

Emperor Tippy
2007-04-03, 10:00 PM
your better off with a scroll of phantom steed at CL 14. It costs 1,050 GP, lasts 14 hours and has a speed of 240 feet. It can also move without wasting 1 of your move actions.

Its actually cheaper for the scroll of phantom steed than it is for teh overland flight scroll (which costs 1,125 GP and is a lower caster level)

Ramza00
2007-04-03, 10:16 PM
You are right Tippy about phantom stead. Just make sure you have a scroll with a caster level 14.

So what should be the bait? It needs to be big, meaty, and juicy, but not too big that your steed won't be able to carry it and fly. Also you need a way to adjust the rope so if the tarrasque by chance grabs it you aren't pull down with it yourself. Perhaps a scroll of telekinesis instead of rope, or a scroll of chain telekinesis (an artificer using metamagic infusion) and having multiple things you are juggling.

Emperor Tippy
2007-04-03, 10:24 PM
Regal Procession from the spell compendium. Its like mount only you get 1 mount per level. And its a level 3 spell. So thats a minimum of 5 horses. And they serve "willingly and well"

So theres your bait.

Just tell them to run infront of Big T 1 at a time and run through the circle. You get 5 tries to beat his SR before you have to recast.

Or better yet use permanent image over the TC. Its 1,650 GP for a scroll of it.

Ramza00
2007-04-03, 10:28 PM
Regal Procession from the spell compendium. Its like mount only you get 1 mount per level. And its a level 3 spell. So thats a minimum of 5 horses. And they serve "willingly and well"

So theres your bait.
Combine with a chain+reach+fly or some other similar mechanism (such as alter self) that will get those mounts off the ground thus they can be near the teleportation circle but not too near.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-04-03, 11:01 PM
An 8th level Evil Cleric could Command a pair of Allips (each one Commanded by a seperate Turn check). Alternately, if he could simply find a way to bust through the SR, he could simply cast Hold Monster and let the Allips have at while Big T is stuck there helpless.

Tor the Fallen
2007-04-04, 10:54 PM
poster dude, your calculations are flawed and it is more likely to resist your dominate than you are to break its SR. people that are saying level 1 commoners with the 100k worth of items, your about 999.99.98 money to high for a commoner. other people with the other stuff, ill say it now, the only way to stop it is by subdueling it down (in one round) and before its turn wish it away, that is the only way to kill it.
ps,dude with the alip, it is impossible for it to fail the will save

Where are my calculations flawed?

I accounted for it resisting dominate- it does so half the time. I still get to cast it 14 more times. The chance that he resists every single one is rather low, and his chance to hit me is 0, as I'm flying several hundred feat away, in the sky. If that day I fail to dominate, I can come back the next. The chance him of resisting to whole days in a row are very slight.

Lolzords
2007-04-05, 01:46 PM
Dunno, set fire to a golem and get it to give the tarrasque a hug?

Frosty Flake
2007-04-05, 04:12 PM
a lvl 1 Psychic Warrior could use 'Skate' on a very large object and get the locals to help him shove it off a cliff when the Tarrasque comes wandering through on it's way to eat the village of the aformentioned locals...

PlatinumJester
2007-04-05, 04:34 PM
It depends how big the party is and how many barbarians are in it. If there are no babarians defeating the Tarrasque is impossible (don't ask why).