Magic items: Pathfinder vs. D&D 3.5

[Kol Korran]

I am running my first PF campaign, and I've come to realize something about PF magic items: I like them much less than 3.5 ones. Though the system is somewhat more elegant with most being one the same sight, and though I didn't meet much variety in power levels of magic items of the same value (sort of), the PF items feel somewhat more bland, more boring, they lack a... certain "oomph" for me. (Speaking about the items on the SRD only) When I plan for loot I usually find myself going over lists and descriptions that feel just... too weak, too boring.

But perhaps that is due to the classes themselves? I know the opinions vary, but I feel that PF classes have more options in their CORE build compared to the D&D ones (We never played with lots of supplements). Rouge, barbarian, oracle, magus and so on feel more interesting to play, more powerful in a way compared to my memories from the 3.5 games I've played. I feel that in D&D 3.5, magic items were more meaningful, power concerned, than their PF counterparts. I approve of that, in "I'd like the characters' own abilities to matter more than their shinies), but I would like that PF magic items would just be... more interesting, more exciting.

Another possibility to explain the difference is the Magic Item Compendium in 3.5... I really liked a lot of the staff that was there- especially all of those items you got with 3 charges that gave different effects depending on how many charges were used. So perhaps that is the source of my impression of "3.5 has more interesting magic".

I know that a lot of items are exactly (Or nearly) the same. And no, I haven't gotten around to looking up and comparing the entire lists. What I present here are but my impressions, from gaming.

What are your impressions/ thoughts?

[Psyren]

Any examples?

PF has a lot of items and properties I like that 3.5 lacked. Cyclonic Arrows, Hosteling Armor, Cord of Stubborn Resolve, Magician's Hat, Mask of Giants...

Besides which, you can simply play 3.P and port all your favorite items in if you want.

[PsyBomb]

The big thing I like about PF magic items over 3.5 is that the stat items are condensed onto two slots, and there are explicit rules in the CRB for putting the +stat enchantments on top of something else so that those slots aren't locked out from your ability to have cool stuff.

Plus, really, that is mostly the point of magic items in PF. Cool Stuff. There are a very few effects that you are expected to acquire as you level (methods of punching DR, movement modes, ability to remove status ailments, etc) which can be covered by them in the absence of a party member being able to, but overall these are less needed than in 3.5 due to increased capability of individual characters.

[ericgrau]

1. Port over reasonable 3.5 items into your PF game.

2. There is no number 2.

I think 3.5 automatically has more cool variety due to sheer size. I mean didn't MiC port in items from many sources? Whether or not 3.5 is also more creative I dunno. PF also has some cool items, but fewer of them. Whether or not that's from the smaller size of the system or creativity I dunno. But the easy answer is to use items from both systems in your PF game and then you get an even larger mass of cool variety. You may or may not want to filter out some of the stronger 3.5 items depending on how your group likes to play.

[Kol Korran]

I don't have any specific examples in mind, It's just that when I go over placing loot I tend to spend a lot of time going over items thinking "That's kind of meh... that's kind of boring... that's VERY situational..." while I remember much more enthusiasm in 3.5.

I know I can port items from 3.5, but one of the main selling points of PF for me was... their SRD- an updating single source with interlinks for easy reference that makes prep time soooo much easier. Starting to look over magic items in the highly-varying-in-power-and-writing-quality-and-style dozens of 3.5 books will make things just far more complicated.

Plus, our group made a simple rule when starting the campaign of "PF material only", to keep things simple (If i start pulling from 3.5, then the party might come "Wait, so we can buy/ craft such items as well?" And I REALLy dont have the time to nitpick which items are ok, and which are not. We're looking for something fairly simple.

Those points aside, this wasn't the point of the thread, though I am looking for a solution, I was making a more philosophical/ theoretical query about the different impressions the magic items system make, and people experiences with them.

Note: I also like havign the stat boosting items limited to head and belt slots. But that' more just because it feels more" fitting" to me, and unless someone takes any of the "perfect mind/ body" items, they can't get two mental/ physical items for the sme character (Unless you go by some other crafting rules. Unsure about that)

Any other thoughts/ comments/ opinions?

[ericgrau]

I dunno I haven't seen a lot of PF items but what I've seen in PF seems cool. Even the SRD items they pulled can be cool if you dig hard enough. I'd chalk it up to having less content and live with the PF items that are there. If you search you can still do some neat things, just maybe not as many things.

[Tohsaka Rin]

It's literally a quantity thing.

I've read the MiC practically cover-to-cover, and I'd use probably less than 10% of what the book offers. Simply by volume, 3.5 has more neat stuff.

If you compare percentage-wise, it's about the same, really. Tons of stuff that I'd never, ever use, because they just don't suit my style.

I might be a statistical outlier though, I stopped caring about most equipment once I saw the Aegis class. And they fixed the Soulknife.

Done and done.

[Psyren]

I know I can port items from 3.5, but one of the main selling points of PF for me was... their SRD- an updating single source with interlinks for easy reference that makes prep time soooo much easier. Starting to look over magic items in the highly-varying-in-power-and-writing-quality-and-style dozens of 3.5 books will make things just far more complicated.

One of the other selling points is backwards compatibility. Clearly you are already familiar with the MiC items since you find them more interesting, so the fact that they aren't online anywhere shouldn't be much of a barrier.



Plus, our group made a simple rule when starting the campaign of "PF material only", to keep things simple (If i start pulling from 3.5, then the party might come "Wait, so we can buy/ craft such items as well?" And I REALLy dont have the time to nitpick which items are ok, and which are not. We're looking for something fairly simple.

That is a group problem, not a system problem. The intention was always to mix in 3.5 material, if a group chooses not to take advantage of that functionality then PF is hardly to blame.



Those points aside, this wasn't the point of the thread, though I am looking for a solution, I was making a more philosophical/ theoretical query about the different impressions the magic items system make, and people experiences with them.

I provided several examples of PF magic items that have functionality 3.5 ones don't; I can supply more if you like. Such as items that let you see through mundane and magical fog and smoke.

[Azoth]

On the stat items, they rub me the wrong way. I hate paying a 50% mark up per stat just because my build needs more than one stat of that variety (physical or mental). It is a bit of a middle finger to MAD builds.

Other than that, I do agree that it is just a matter of volume as far as useful material goes. I am having a similar problem to OP in two games I am in, so I have resorted to diving through quite a bit of the magic item lists to find gear to spend gold on. Though I will admit pathfinder has a lot of little items that really help shore up defensive holes on characters, so they have that at least.

[Coidzor]

The big thing I like about PF magic items over 3.5 is that the stat items are condensed onto two slots, and there are explicit rules in the CRB for putting the +stat enchantments on top of something else so that those slots aren't locked out from your ability to have cool stuff.

Ah, so they did read the Magic Item Compendium from 3.5 after all. I'd been wondering about that.

That's not really so much something that PF has over 3.5 and more something that PF only has because people figured it out over the run 3.5 had, though. :smalltongue:

[PsyBomb]

Ah, so they did read the Magic Item Compendium from 3.5 after all. I'd been wondering about that.

That's not really so much something that PF has over 3.5 and more something that PF only has because people figured it out over the run 3.5 had, though. :smalltongue:

The big thing about it which is over 3.5 is that those rules are in Core, and up on the SRD. Much less DM-dependent :smallbiggrin:

[atemu1234]

I know that I play 3.5 and backport every PF thing I can, so I can see where you're coming from.

I've often debated switching to PF, simply for the novelty. But I don't know, really.

If there's something from either edition you want in the other (that occupies a unique niche, etc.) then you should be able to port it with relative ease. They don't call it 3.75 for nothing.

[Psyren]

On the stat items, they rub me the wrong way. I hate paying a 50% mark up per stat just because my build needs more than one stat of that variety (physical or mental). It is a bit of a middle finger to MAD builds.

On the other hand, even in games without custom items you can enhance all your ability scores with just two slots. In addition PF has two more slots than 3.5 does. These two factors can lead to a lot of character variation and a lot more room for fun/situational effects.