Clarification of Distilled Joy and Ambrosia.

[magicalmagicman]

Its duration is permanent. Does this mean a character who had distilled joy cast on him, will excrete ambrosia into the vial that was used as the focus of the spell whenever he feels joyful? Or does it mean a character can be cast by the spell only once? Also, does this spell destroy the target's joy?

[Ashtagon]

I took it to mean that the ambrosia exists in a permanent state (which, yes, means it is vulnerable to dispel and antimagic effects).

You could cast it on the same subject any number of times, as long as they are in a joyful state.

[Crake]

Also, does this spell destroy the target's joy?

If it did, I would highly question it's status as a [Good] spell. I've always thought of it more as collecting the joy that radiates from those who are experiencing bliss.

[magicalmagicman]

I took it to mean that the ambrosia exists in a permanent state (which, yes, means it is vulnerable to dispel and antimagic effects).

You could cast it on the same subject any number of times, as long as they are in a joyful state.

Well there's that 1day casting time as well. How do you time the spell to hit that exact moment the target is blissful in your interpretation?

[Ashtagon]

Well there's that 1day casting time as well. How do you time the spell to hit that exact moment the target is blissful in your interpretation?

Beats me. If I were writing it, I would have made the casting time a minute, and say it then takes a day for the ambrosia to coalesce, during which period the subject must be, if not exquisitely joyful, at least happy and content. And I would have made it Conjuration, not Transmutation.

I mean, just how on Earth (or the Seven Mounting Heavens for that matter) do you maintain a moment of rapture for more than, well, a moment? It's silly, and badly-written.

[magicalmagicman]

I mean, just how on Earth (or the Seven Mounting Heavens for that matter) do you maintain a moment of rapture for more than, well, a moment? It's silly, and badly-written.

Yeah, that's what I thought too and avoided that spell altogether but one of the people I play with said the casting time is evidence of the permanent excretion of ambrosia argument. Which is why I posted this thread.

He said, the target gets this permanent duration, not the ambrosia, and because it's literally impossible to time the 1 day casting time on that exact moment of bliss, and since an entire plane of celestials rely solely on ambrosia for sustenance, he says you only cast this spell once on a target, and can extract infinite amount of ambrosia from it, to the limit of once per moment. He said duration is not instantaneous, like every single other creation spell, is also evidence that he is right and I am wrong.

[Ashtagon]

Yeah, that's what I thought too and avoided that spell altogether but one of the people I play with said the casting time is evidence of the permanent excretion of ambrosia argument. Which is why I posted this thread.

He said, the target gets this permanent duration, not the ambrosia, and because it's literally impossible to time the 1 day casting time on that exact moment of bliss, and since an entire plane of celestials rely solely on ambrosia for sustenance, he says you only cast this spell once on a target, and can extract infinite amount of ambrosia from it, to the limit of once per moment. He said duration is not instantaneous, like every single other creation spell, is also evidence that he is right and I am wrong.

Like I said, badly written. Here's my revised take on the spell:

Conjuration
Level: 3 (you know what classes get it)
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: One standard action and special
Range: Touch
Effect: One portion of ambrosia
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You create one ounce of ambrosia. The living creature that is the focus of the spell must be experiencing intense joy at the moment the spell is cast. The ambrosia slowly coalesces within the container over the next 24 hours. While the ambrosia is coalescing from the focus character, that character cannot act as the focus for another casting of this spell.

Note that as the spell duration is permanent, the ambrosia is subject to dispel and antimagic effects.

Focus: A living creature experiencing some kind of intense joy, and a small container. Any unwilling focus is entitled to resist the spell.

[Psyren]

So you induce "intense joy" in the target, and collect the... extract... in a separate container. (giggity)

Do they have to rest in between "farmings" or are they ready to go again 6 seconds later while the current loa- I mean, "sample" is being collected?

[Ashtagon]

So you induce "intense joy" in the target, and collect the... extract... in a separate container. (giggity)

Do they have to rest in between "farmings" or are they ready to go again 6 seconds later while the current loa- I mean, "sample" is being collected?

I'd say you have to wait a day. The spell activates the process of transfer, and one person can only be the focus for one transfer at a time. But come back tomorrow and you're good to go with him again.

Or just cast it on all your friends, one friend per casting you have available.

[Psyren]

I'd say you have to wait a day. The spell activates the process of transfer, and one person can only be the focus for one transfer at a time. But come back tomorrow and you're good to go with him again.

Or just cast it on all your friends, one friend per casting you have available.

If there is a cooldown, you need to update your version of the spell to indicate that.

[RoboEmperor]

I agree with your friend. Let me list all the points that make my case.

1. Duration is permanent not instantaneous. WotC is not stupid to mix up permanent and instantaneous.
2. There is no mention of failure in the spell. i.e. the spell fails when you cast it when the creature is not blissful.
3. Casting time is 1 day. Again WotC is not stupid.
4. Caster can draw ambrosia. As in, the spell does NOT create the ambrosia upon casting. It just lets you draw it into a vial. The spell does NOT draw it for you. It specifically says you have to draw it yourself. Note that the vial need not be the same focus you used to cast the spell.

Combine all this and you get this:
A creature who has this spell cast upon him will generate ambrosia indefinitely whenever it achieves a moment of bliss, which may only be collected by the caster.

[Ashtagon]

...WotC is not stupid...

Are you serious?

[RoboEmperor]

Are you serious?

Not THAT stupid. I am aware of the many, many stupidity from WotC :P. But I never, ever heard of WotC mislabeling a spell's stats. i.e. casting time and duration. Sure, they introduce ridiculously broken spells, but they labeled them all correctly!

[Ashtagon]

So, conjuration (creation) spells are never permanent?

Column of Ice (frostburn) disagrees. So does genius loci (Complete Mage).

Shalantha's delicate disk (Lost Empires of Faerun)
Sepia snake sigil
Intensify manifest zone (Faiths of Eberron)
Beget bogun (Spell Compendium)

So, yeah. Conjuration (creation) spells with permanent durations aren't inherently a "mistake".

As for WotC stupidity, just check their errata files. Especially the one for Tome of Battle.