How I imagine TOB Archery would look like

[CyberThread]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk

Should watch this for some inspiration for homebrew archery maneuver ideas.

[Honest Tiefling]

I will admit, this makes the whole 'hunting accident' method of kingly removal make a lot more sense.

[Jeff the Green]

That'd be ToB archery... at maneuver level 1-2. By maneuver level 3 other disciplines are teleporting, throwing dragons around, and ignoring spell effects out of sheer badassery.

[Renen]

And everyone made fun of legolas for shooting orcs point blank. This guy shows that its not so hard :D

[Glorius Nippon]

What was that? Sorry, couldn't hear you from 43 miles away http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?253910-Maximum-Range-Archery-New-record-distance!.

[Axinian]

I love this video. I always thought the normal way archery was depicted was weird and inefficient, but not knowing anything about archery I could never figure out why!

Frankly this video makes archery in D&D as whole make a lot more sense.

[Chronos]

Most what I'm seeing there isn't even Tome of Battle. I'm seeing a guy with the Rapid Shot and Shot on the Run feats, plus maybe some ranks in Tumble for the parkour. The only thing that really looks ToB-ish is the shooting down incoming arrows.

Still useful to have a new baseline for the "guy at the gym" comparisons, though.

[Seharvepernfan]

Most what I'm seeing there isn't even Tome of Battle. I'm seeing a guy with the Rapid Shot and Shot on the Run feats

It's more than that, this guy can shoot 3 arrows in 1.5 seconds, while moving. Not just in a full-round, no, in half a standard action.

[Vhaidara]

It's more than that, this guy can shoot 3 arrows in 1.5 seconds, while moving. Not just in a full-round, no, in half a standard action.

Um, he did 3 arrows in 0.6 seconds. That would be 30 arrows in a round.

I would actually say this is one of those guys who's capped in our E6 world and taken one of those feats that lets him act like level 7, so he has 4th level maneuvers.

[AvatarVecna]

Um, he did 3 arrows in 0.6 seconds. That would be 30 arrows in a round.

I would actually say this is one of those guys who's capped in our E6 world and taken one of those feats that lets him act like level 7, so he has 4th level maneuvers.

Even Lars Anderson can only hold so many arrows in hand at once. He has to draw more arrows eventually. I think I recall reading somewhere that his "arrows in hand at once" limit was 12 (IIRC).

[Vhaidara]

Even Lars Anderson can only hold so many arrows in hand at once. He has to draw more arrows eventually. I think I recall reading somewhere that his "arrows in hand at once" limit was 12 (IIRC).

Oh, I'm not saying he could actually manage 30 arrows in 6 seconds. I was just extrapolating from the rate he managed. I'm picturing if you handed him Hank's Energy Bow, which is self-loading.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't see any of his arrows catching fire midflight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/solar-wind-maneuvers).:smallbiggrin:

[Seharvepernfan]

Um, he did 3 arrows in 0.6 seconds.

Ahem. One fifth of a standard action!

[Chronos]

OK, so maybe it's Manyshot, not Multishot. I always pictured that as nocking all of the arrows at once and loosing them (hey, look at that, the one situation where "loosing" is the correct spelling!) with a single release of the string, but when you're releasing them that fast, the distinction is perhaps academic.

Also, I have to wonder about his total power. Yes, he can draw a full-strength bow, and he can shoot many arrows in rapid succession, but can he do both at once? Does he have any demonstrations of rapid-firing arrows at a distant target? Yeah, it's nice if you can fire so quickly that you're effective even in charging range, but if you can only do it within charging range, why use a bow at all?

[Seerow]

OK, so maybe it's Manyshot, not Multishot. I always pictured that as nocking all of the arrows at once and loosing them (hey, look at that, the one situation where "loosing" is the correct spelling!) with a single release of the string, but when you're releasing them that fast, the distinction is perhaps academic.

Also, I have to wonder about his total power. Yes, he can draw a full-strength bow, and he can shoot many arrows in rapid succession, but can he do both at once? Does he have any demonstrations of rapid-firing arrows at a distant target? Yeah, it's nice if you can fire so quickly that you're effective even in charging range, but if you can only do it within charging range, why use a bow at all?

Even if not, the video seems like a good argument for a sort of rapid shot/power attack hybrid for Archers. Something like:

Speed Shooting
Prerequisite: Rapid Shot, BAB+2
Benefit: You sacrifice some accuracy and power to be able to fire additional arrows in rapid succession. When making an attack, you can take a penalty to hit up to a maximum of your BAB. For every 2 points of attack bonus given up in this way, you deal the base weapon damage of your bow one additional time for every attack. This extra damage is not considered cumulative for the purpose of bypassing DR.



Okay maybe it would need to be rewritten to be more clear than that, but basically, imagine a BAB+6 Archer with Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Speed Shooting. Their normal attack bonus is sitting around a +12. When rapid shotting they have 3 attacks at +10/+10/+4, firing 3 arrows that deal say 1d8+6 damage.

They take a penalty of 6 to hit while using speed shooting, and now for each attack they deal the 1d8+6 damage and plus an additional 3d8 (3 times the base weapon damage). So now a level 6 Archer with this setup could conceivably fire 12 arrows per round, but with a dramatically reduced accuracy and having relatively little effect against enemies with DR.

ie, against a normal target with no DR, their damage per shot looks like 4d8+6. Against a target with DR though, each d8 has to count against the DR separately. So if the target has DR5, each of those extra d8s has to roll above a 5 to have any effect. Against a target with DR10, speed shooting is worthless.