Help me make a BBEG barbarian [3.5]

[Banjoman42]

So, I would like for one of the major villains of my campaign be a sort of barbarian. I would like him to be extremely optimized, and I'm not sure I am capable of making him as good as he needs to be. So I thought I would ask the playground for help. Any suggestions for feats/races/prestige classes/ways to make a super-good barbarian?
Constraints:
1: Must be CR 20
2: Must be human (or some race that can easily pass/be mistaken as human, like a tiefling)
3: All official supplements, except ToB. Might be willing to accept homebrew or third party stuff.
4: Alignment is neutral evil, so nothing that would require him to be a different alignment.
5: Please try to stick with martial classes. It doesn't have to be a barbarian, but that is preferred.

If any additional information is required, let me know.

[Vhaidara]

a super-good barbarian?

Well, the first step to being super-good is Exalted feats...


4: Alignment is neutral evil, so nothing that would require him to be a different alignment.

Well, this makes things awkward...

On a more serious note, refluff Goliath or half giant as being a massive human. That's a very fitting thing for a barbarian.

Second, Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Dungeoncrash Fighter 2/Full BAB filler 2/Frenzied Berserker 10/War Hulk 5. You can invert the War Hulk and FB levels quite easily. Grab Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Shock Trooper.

The filler can be anything fitting. Fighter nets you another feat, Ranger gets you combat style (IIRC, Dragon mag had some more combat styles, including a THF style), Duskblade would give him some magic, and Hexblade gets him a curse he can throw out.

[Denver]

I've been seeing the Goliath Barbarian mentioned a lot more often, but if you want your human barbarian to have a Rage that is far more intimidating (especially for players who are not aware of the Goliath Barbarian's Mountain Rage) - then you could apply the Stoneblessed race bonus to allow your Human Barbarian to use racially Goliath features.

I don't know your setting at all, but being a Stoneblessed Human could also allow this BBEG access to some Goliath subordinates to act as "badass" lieutenants. [Races of Stone]

Edit: Is there yet a new term for being swordsage'd about the Goliath Barbarian? Did I just get Mountain Rage'd??

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sub in the Corrupter paladin variant (NE) from Dragon 312 p24 with this build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?275093-its-a-villain-sort-of#5). The Corrupter's 3rd level ability gives all enemies within 10 ft. a -4 penalty to saves vs fear effects! That uses Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) and you can substitute one or more of the exalted feats for Extra Rage.

[Seharvepernfan]

Helmet of Righteous Might (Constant)
Goggles of Darkvision (filler)
Amulet of Health +6
Cloak of Displacement
+5 Glassteel Full-plate of Heavy Fortification
Vest of Resistance +5
Bracers of Might
Gloves of Dexterity +6
Ring of Counterspells (Greater Dispel Magic)
Ring of Counterspells (Greater Dispel Magic) (one on both hands)
Belt of Giant Strength +6
Boots of Speed
Stone of Good Luck

+5 Berserking Collision Brutal Surge Adamantine Spiked Chain or Guisarme
it lets you make bull rush attempts against enemies you hit, letting you push them as far as possible without having to move with them
this, combined with dungeoncrasher stuff and a wall = free damage and another chance to make AoO's when they come back at you...where you can repeat the process

+1 Warning Spellstoring (Bestow Curse [50% chance of losing action each round]) Spiked Gauntlet
+5 Animated Glassteel Heavy Shield (with that ability that grants death ward)
+1 Distance Bola (for quick-draw tripping at a distance)
custom javelin that drops a solid fog wherever it hits
iron bands of billaro (if you rule these can be quick-draw)

Elixir of Absorption
Elixir of True Seeing
Elixir of Freedom of Movement
Elixir of Heal (15th)
Elixir of Greater Invisibility (might as well)
Potion of Fly + Potion of Aerial Alacrity
-yes, this is all very expensive, but he's the BBEG and the players are his greatest threats, plus if he wins, he can sell all their gear and be the worlds richest villain

I would grab Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Improved Sunder, Steadfast Determination (cheesy, but a BBEG should probably have it), Shock Trooper, and Quick Draw (for when he drops somebody but still has attacks left - throws throwing weapons)

If you rule that someone could combine improved sunder with cleave, then by all means put great cleave on this bad boy and let him tear up all the PC's weapons and held items - an adamantine weapon ignores hardness of less than 20

[Waker]

So, I would like for one of the major villains of my campaign be a sort of barbarian. I would like him to be extremely optimized, and I'm not sure I am capable of making him as good as he needs to be. So I thought I would ask the playground for help. Any suggestions for feats/races/prestige classes/ways to make a super-good barbarian?
Constraints:
1: Must be CR 20
2: Must be human (or some race that can easily pass/be mistaken as human, like a tiefling)
3: All official supplements, except ToB. Might be willing to accept homebrew or third party stuff.
4: Alignment is neutral evil, so nothing that would require him to be a different alignment.

If any additional information is required, let me know.

Though one can assume what your intent is, it always pays to know. What kind of role do you see this guy playing in your campaign and the fights against him? Is he just a lone brute, a lackey of a greater villain, does he lead a horde of barbarians... And what kind of combat role do you want for him? Is he just gonna be a hard-hitter with little in the way of tactics or will he have a bit more going on in the brains department?
The latter question is especially important. One of the biggest difficulties with running an effective "boss fight" in D&D is the issue of the action economy. When the bad guy is taking one action vs the party's five, things are somewhat skewed towards the players. There are a few solutions to this issue. Many DMs will simply up the power of the villain, they will hit harder, have higher AC and HP, et cetera. Frankly I find that route somewhat boring, but to each their own. The next solution is granting the villain some means of increasing their actions in a turn, such as some magics like Time Stop or weird racial/class quirks. This one is workable too, but often requires the villain to be shoehorned into a specific build/race/class or DM fiat. The last option is the utilization of mooks and/or the environment. Facing down a lone barbarian is boring in practice. Facing a barbarian chieftain backed by his cadre of warriors in a burning city they are ransacking? That's the sweet spot. Suddenly the party can't focus fire because they have to contend with less dangerous, but still strong warriors chipping away at their health. The buildings are collapsing, reflex save! Smoke is obscuring the battlefield, imposing a penalty on ranged attacks. All the heat and smoke is taking it's toll on you, make a fortitude save.

So, who is this barbarian?

[Seppo87]

You might want to focus this guy on being as tough as it can be rather than dishing out one-shot kills.
If you go for full-damage, the battle will become a rocket tag joke. It will literally last one round.
A single party member might die, then the BBEG will meet his downfall.

(Unfortunately, you banned the best book available in order to achieve a fun, well-rounded, long lasting and versatile mundane barbarian BBEG.
Let's see what we can do anyway)

Have this guy wear a Starmantle Cloak, a Ring of 9 lives, and two doomwarding gauntlets.
This will take care of damage and saves.
Hopefully, this will buy the BBEG one or two more rounds to shine.

As for battlefield control spells that autowin vs mundanes, like Forcecage and the likes, I don't think you have any real answer without magical support, either in form of npcs, contingencies, or custom gear.

The closest you can get is trying to prevent enemies from casting in the first place. The popular trick here is to get Instantaneous Rage, Intimidating Rage and Imperious Command.
Just maximize your Intimidate ranks and you get a free mundane counterspell
Depending on the party composition, this should buy another round.

Now, the attack side.
You want the guy to do as much as possible during those few rounds when the party is trying to figure out why their attacks aren't working.
Give him Travel Devotion and Heroic Surge.
Even if alone, this guy will have twice the actions during his lifespan.

How about a returning thrown weapon? Boomerang Daze might be another excellent choice to extend the combat even further.
You can use Heroic Surge to ready a boomerang attack whenever anyone starts casting a spell.

As for the damage, it's so trivial to optimize. Just decide how much of it you need and minmax to get the desired amount using one or more of the tricks that other people already listed in this thread.

[Banjoman42]

Though one can assume what your intent is, it always pays to know. What kind of role do you see this guy playing in your campaign and the fights against him? Is he just a lone brute, a lackey of a greater villain, does he lead a horde of barbarians... And what kind of combat role do you want for him? Is he just gonna be a hard-hitter with little in the way of tactics or will he have a bit more going on in the brains department?
The latter question is especially important. One of the biggest difficulties with running an effective "boss fight" in D&D is the issue of the action economy. When the bad guy is taking one action vs the party's five, things are somewhat skewed towards the players. There are a few solutions to this issue. Many DMs will simply up the power of the villain, they will hit harder, have higher AC and HP, et cetera. Frankly I find that route somewhat boring, but to each their own. The next solution is granting the villain some mea into a specific build/race/class or DM fiat. The last option is the utilization of mooks and/or the environment. Facing down a lone barbarian is boring in practice. Facing a barbarian chieftain backed by his cadre of warriors in a burning city they are ransacking? That's the sweet spot. Suddenly the party can't focus fire because they have to contend with less dangerous, but still strong warriors chipping away at their health. The buildings are collapsing, reflex save! Smoke is obscuring the battlefield, imposing a penalty on ranged attacks. All the heat and smoke is taking it's toll on you, make a fortitude save.

So, who is this barbarian?
He is the lord of one layer of a plane that the players must travel through (my world's equivalent of Hades, which is why he has to be NE). They have to retrieve an item from him in order to leave his layer of the plane. The final fight will most likely take place in his palace, with two to three of his best minions, essentially making the equivalent of an enemy party, but he will be the most powerful. Ideally, they will be around 17th level at this fight. He is will resort to any means to win the fight, whether ambushes or just plain unfair tactics. He will most likely target spellcasters and light armored characters before melee characters.

[DMVerdandi]

Factotum 1/Barb2/Hexblade2/Ur-Priest10/xx

This is like a blackguard on crack.
Hexblade can be switched for knight, as it is only used to obtain good will saves. You have five levels to get whatever you want, as you will already have full cleric casting by level 15.
More Barbarian levels? Couldn't hurt.

[Flickerdart]

I would recommend a tripping build - with Mountain Rage and a couple of reach-boosting feats (Inhuman Reach, Willing Deformity: Tall, Extended Reach, Long Reach) he can lock down a huge area around himself, making it very difficult for the PCs to dogpile him. Then you can do something like make the floor lava or acid; tripped PCs can't maintain forward momentum while flying and fall to their hilarious demise, while he can have good maneuverability flight to remain in the air.

For additional lulz, give him Knockback - the PCs attempt to run at him, he gets an AoO, and knocks them away. If he has some Dungeoncrasher Fighter levels, this deals damage if he manages to knock them into stuff (and as the owner of the room, he can have loads of pointy columns just standing everywhere) or knock them into one another with Shocktrooper to trip them (which will also give him free attacks if he has Improved Trip and they're still within his reach).

It's probably to your advantage to make his throne room exactly the size of his reach (20ft for a large creature with a reach weapon, then +5ft per every reach-boosting feat listed above for 40ft*) so that there is no escape from his attacks of opportunity. A room 90 feet across is still by no means small. Have the walls be spiked or line the walls with a moat of acid/lava. On the second turn of the encounter he should fly up and have the entire room flood, hopefully catching the PCs.

*I'm AFB so I don't remember if a Goliath is Humanoid; you might have to go Stoneblessed Human to get Inhuman Reach and it's probably not worth that many levels for just +5ft reach if you can shrink the room instead.

[Seerow]

I would recommend a tripping build

He's looking for a CR20 encounter. If the players are facing a CR20 enemy and don't have flight or at very least some other means of dealing with tripping, I'll be shocked.


I would generally agree with Seppo's advice. Focus what you can around defense and action economy, to get him to last longer than a round and prevent the party from taking him out too quickly. The gear he recommends is pretty expensive, even for a level 20 NPC, so you will want to account for that somehow.

[Flickerdart]

He's looking for a CR20 encounter. If the players are facing a CR20 enemy and don't have flight or at very least some other means of dealing with tripping, I'll be shocked.
You'll notice that I discussed that in the post after the first six words of it. IIRC nothing cancels the drawbacks of being tripped just because you're in the air, but I guess a rules citation to the contrary would set that straight.

[Seerow]

You'll notice that I discussed that in the post after the first six words of it. IIRC nothing cancels the drawbacks of being tripped just because you're in the air, but I guess a rules citation to the contrary would set that straight.

The only reference I've ever seen for tripping working on flying characters is for winged flight.

[Flickerdart]

The only reference I've ever seen for tripping working on flying characters is for winged flight.
It doesn't need to be a reference to it working - unless the rules somewhere say "tripping doesn't work on fliers" then there's no reason for it not to.

[kalasulmar]

The tripping rules are geared toward weapons and attack modes that grab or hook the target, not just "tripping" as a method of knocking someone off their feet. So it isn't that much of a stretch to rule that a flying character can be "tripped" per the RAW even if their feet aren't on the ground. Besides, how cool would it be to have the extended reach spiked chain barbarian king snatch the party wizard out of the air and bounce him face first off of the floor?

[Buufreak]

It doesn't need to be a reference to it working - unless the rules somewhere say "tripping doesn't work on fliers" then there's no reason for it not to.

The best help I can find for this is from Rules Compendium, stating winged creatures that are tripped fall as if they didn't maintain minimum flight distance. So anything with wings and good or perfect flight can hover, and wouldn't fall due to tripping. Without wings, though, is a different story.

[Flickerdart]

The best help I can find for this is from Rules Compendium, stating winged creatures that are tripped fall as if they didn't maintain minimum flight distance. So anything with wings and good or perfect flight can hover, and wouldn't fall due to tripping. Without wings, though, is a different story.
Being tripped (becoming prone) and falling down are two different things, though. For knocking people around, bull rush is also effective; the proposed build can do both.

[kalasulmar]

Use pathfinder's drag maneuver instead of trip. Scorpion from Mortal Kombat, anyone?

[Blackhawk748]

Use pathfinder's drag maneuver instead of trip. Scorpion from Mortal Kombat, anyone?

Spiked Chain Barbar anyone? the best part is is that you can slap that onto just about anything.

[endur]

1: Must be CR 20
2: Must be human (or some race that can easily pass/be mistaken as human, like a tiefling)
3: All official supplements, except ToB. Might be willing to accept homebrew or third party stuff.
4: Alignment is neutral evil, so nothing that would require him to be a different alignment.


level 20 human barbarian out of the PHB. Adamantine weapon and mithril armor.
barb starts with 18str/con/dex/chr before level ups.

Barbarian's fortress is an anti-magic zone. (i.e. no magic spells, no magic items work, etc.)

Done.

[Banjoman42]

level 20 human barbarian out of the PHB. Adamantine weapon and mithril armor.
barb starts with 18str/con/dex/chr before level ups.

Barbarian's fortress is an anti-magic zone. (i.e. no magic spells, no magic items work, etc.)

Done.
Utter ridiculousness. All this does is make it so that half the party can't do anything. If the entire palace were antimagic, It would make for a very boring and tedious dungeon. However, if the PCs had any sense at all, they would go outside the palace and use disjunction to destroy the whole field, ruining the entire Barbarian's strategy.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Half-Orc, Lion Spirit Wolf Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 2/ Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) 3/ Dungeoncrasher Fighter 2/ Blackguard 3/ Divine Crusader 4/ Contemplative 6, use the Half-Humans and Humanlike Races sidebar in Races of Destiny p150 to make him count as a Human, and just say he looks more human than most half-orcs. Give him the Feathery Wings fiendish graft in Fiend Folio which provides mundane flight.

Feats should include Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Knock-Down, Knock-Back, Selective Spell from Shining South, Divine Metamagic: Persistent, probably Leap Attack, and Extra Rage and/or Extend Rage a few times one of which is from the Otyugh Hole in CS. His domains should be Spell, Wrath, and probably Death. His daily buffs are extremely important, this should include Anyspell: DMM: Persistent Wraithstrike, Anyspell: DMM: Persistent Shield, Greater Anyspell: DMM: Persistent Draconic Polymorph into himself (+8 Str, +2 Con), DMM: Persistent Righteous Might, and most important of all, DMM: Persistent Selective Antimagic Field. Selective Spell is a +1 metamagic that excludes yourself from being affected by the modified spell, so with regards to everyone else he's inside an AMF, and anyone close enough to him is in his AMF, but with regards to himself and determining the effects of his own abilities, spells, and items, is not in an AMF. Give him a Greater Metamagic Rod of Chain Spell to use with Destruction, and he should cast Rhino's Rush and charge with either Leap Attack or a dive attack and pounce every round. Give him a plot power to still be able to cast spells during a rage.

[Seharvepernfan]

Give him a plot power to still be able to cast spells during a rage.

Torque of Lucid Raging

Crafted by savage shamans for use by barbarian commanders, these thick metal chokers allow raging wearers to retain a measure of control despite their battle frenzy. This magic item only aids characters with the rage extraordinary ability. Those that rage while wearing this item are not restricted in the use of skills, feats, or abilities they possess. Thus, a barbarian who rages while wearing a torque of lucid raging can use all skills, any feat, and any ability requiring patience or concentration, as well as can cast any spell and activate any magic item (as long as he possesses such skills, feats, or abilities) as if he were not raging. A torque of lucid raging uses the same space as a magic necklace.

Moderate enchantment; CL 7; Craft Wondrous Item, calm emotions; Price: 9,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

[(Un)Inspired]

level 20 human barbarian out of the PHB. Adamantine weapon and mithril armor.
barb starts with 18str/con/dex/chr before level ups.

Barbarian's fortress is an anti-magic zone. (i.e. no magic spells, no magic items work, etc.)

Done.

I totally agree with this only I would switch from barbarian 20 (which is totally useless against a lvl 17 party, doubly so in an Anti magic zone) to Cleric 20 with the initiate of mystra feat.

Otherwise a great suggestion.

[Banjoman42]

I totally agree with this only I would switch from barbarian 20 (which is totally useless against a lvl 17 party, doubly so in an Anti magic zone) to Cleric 20 with the initiate of mystra feat.

Otherwise a great suggestion.
Again, it needs to be a barbarian to actually fit with the world and why he is there, and an antimagic zone just makes half the party bored for the entire dungeon.

[j_spencer93]

honestly if your wanting a good barbarian it matters on what your wanting to do. if you are wanting to make his rage optimized that is different then wanting a good anything else. i have a barbarian, level 20 who has like 4 different forms of rage (or rage like abiliies, that stack) that he enters.

[Oddman80]

I submit THUNK son of Gront (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=843137)

he has a S***-Ton of Magic items that go way above and beyond anything a lvl 20 NPC could afford due tue a DM not caring enough to correct an error on how much a Head-sized diamond would be worth.
More Info on that story HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376405-3-5-Ok-My-DM-has-lost-his-mind-Help-me-go-Shopping!&highlight=head+sized+diamond)

But the build was rather versatile. the huge reach, plus the ability to take a giant swing and drain life from anything it hit from a whilrwind attack was a helpful bit of regeneration that made his longevity more impressive.

The necklace made of counter-spell rings was a custom item, but hey - BBEG, right?

The inability for casters to cast defensively.

The Crazy Multiclassing that ended up with HUGE base saves all around.

Reach + Improved Trip + Knockdown + Combat reflexes and Robilar's Gambit = you get near me, i knock you down. You stand up, I hit you. You hit me, i hit You and you fall down again.

Ranged weapon or long distance spell casting was the only thing that worked against him - and those all still had a 20% miss chance.

Even if you take his magical gear down to an NPC appropriate level - he was a B.A.

[(Un)Inspired]

Again, it needs to be a barbarian to actually fit with the world and why he is there, and an antimagic zone just makes half the party bored for the entire dungeon.

What's wrong with a cleric being a barbarian? When did you say the build must include levels in the class barbarian?

If you want to build a person who is a barbarian you need not shackle yourself to the class of the same name.

Has Miko taught you nothing?

[endur]

For those who didn't catch the reference, the barbarian placing his fortress in an anti-magic zone is actually from one of the Forgotten Realms novels. Yamun Khahan, leader of a (mongol) Horde (FR equivalent of Ghengis Khan), would place his camp sites in anti-magic zones that were left over from the FR Time of Troubles.

His army didn't have many spell casters and he had lots of barbarian troops, so he he chose his defensive terrain carefully.

He died when he went on the offenisve and was killed away from his AMZ.

[atemu1234]

Just note that class name =/= job description. The fighter cannot fight anymore than the wizard can wiz. :smallbiggrin:

[Banjoman42]

What's wrong with a cleric being a barbarian? When did you say the build must include levels in the class barbarian?

If you want to build a person who is a barbarian you need not shackle yourself to the class of the same name.

Has Miko taught you nothing?
While I understand your thinking, I'm saying that it doesn't fit THIS barbarian. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I specifically didn't limit the classes, but I should have been clear on the fact that I don't want a caster.

[Sewercop]

Need a way to nullify grease if you are a barb and raging

[(Un)Inspired]

While I understand your thinking, I'm saying that it doesn't fit THIS barbarian. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I specifically didn't limit the classes, but I should have been clear on the fact that I don't want a caster.

I gotcha.

Are you still looking for help with this guy?

Could you tell us more about your party's composition and tactics? This could help a lot with knowing what to suggest to challenge them.