A Question About Military Discipline

[Amaril]

So I came across this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipe_hunt) on Wikipedia--don't ask me why I actually read the whole thing--and one thing that stuck out to me was the mention of pranks like this in the military, like the thing with the ID-10-T form. That got me wondering: if you're in the military, and your CO gives you an order like this, and you know it's a joke, and you make it clear that you know the joke instead of playing along, would that be considered insubordination? Just something I was curious about, if anybody knows about this stuff.

[SouthpawSoldier]

CO's rarely instigate such games, though they'll SOMETIMES play along.

Balking at such shenanigans might get you yelled at some; it did in my case. Mostly it marks you as a poor sport. It would never result in any official punishment, since this kind of behavior is supposed to be outside normal rules. That being said, it all depends on manner, relationship, circumstance, and a host of other variables.

Part of why I've struggled in my time is my difficulty with such games. I hate football, "team-building exercises", mass punishments, and the like. I'm a philosophical, individualistic intellectual. Not much common ground with others in uniform. While to most, these were just harmless fun, I saw initiations and such games as a monumental waste of my time. I'd rather be in my barracks room reading and sipping a microbrew than going bar hopping, or playing the game. Let me relied on for production, rather than being everyone's buddy.

As a result, it took me 8 years to achieve a rank usually reached in 3-5, and I've plateaued there. I'm actually being sequestered out for non-competiveness. SOmewhat depressing, as I'd love to stay in and continue as a technical expert. It's been several decades since the Army scrapped the parallel pay system (a Spec-6 was the same pay grade as a Staff Sergeant, but not in a leadership role, only technical).

From an objective view, I understand the purpose of such games. Testing the target's patience helps determine their ability to handle stress, and whether they can be relied upon when things get hairy. Since my field is technical, rather than combat arms, I found such actions in my field to be playing soldier.

[007_ctrl_room]

former Marine here - agree with the original reply in that CO's would never initiate something like that, but I could see a handful of them participating.

[Lentrax]

Yeah, they wouldn't start it, though if you get the one officer who started out in maintenance, he may add a couple of things if he catches wind of the new guy being sent off on the usual laundry list of pseudo hazing.

But he would never be the one to start it. that would a waste of time and resources.

[TheThan]

There are three rules you need to follow when planning to pull a prank on someone:

1: no one gets hurt- a trip to the emergency room is never a good thing

2: nothing gets broken or destroyed- ruining someone’s prized possession in the name of fun is a good way to lose a friend.

3: know the person you’re pulling the prank on- some people don’t respond well to pranks, getting someone angry because you made them into a fool or were simply having fun at their expense is not a cool thing to do, so know if they’ll be a good sport about it before you do it.

If you follow these rules, you’ll make sure your prank is fun and everyone has a laugh afterwards. It won’t turn into a malicious attack.

I'm amazed that i have to say this, but some people just don't get it. Hurting someone for fun is selfish malicious and shows the person you hurt exactly what you think of them (read a very low opinion). pranks are supposed to be fun, if the person you're pulling the prank on is hurt and clearly not having fun afterwards, then your prank failed, even if you're the one left laughing.

[Palanan]

There's a great book about life on a Trident submarine, Big Red (http://www.amazon.com/Big-Red-Trident-Nuclear-Submarine/dp/0060194847/), which mentions a prank on the XO involving the disappearance of his cabin door.

Apart from the fact that he had no door, I recall he handled it fairly well, and the perps followed TheThan's three laws of military pranking.

[JustSomeGuy]

During the blacksmithing phase of my military training, everybody had their own forge, anvil, tools etc. marked up by name. Once you had finished a piece, you sat it on your anvil to cool, outlined with chalk denoting 'hot' and a date-time. Now, we were a very boisterous course, the most of which i'll not delve into. However, we thought it hilarious how one guy from yorkshire spoke (i'm also from there, but the coast has way less stereotypical speech, plus it was all just jokes) so one day at the morning break, he went to the shop or toilet or something (not important, don't recall) so a couple of guys came up with the plan to leave a hot as possible lump on his anvil, simply marked 'mind, it's wet' - just a quick little quip really. Anyway, off we all went to the break room to doss about, as usual. Several minutes later, an almighty scream rings through the whole building and several moments in, everyone twigs and we all trail into the forging room.

Turns out, hot metal does feel kind of wet for a split second, as the skin/nerves/whatever tissues melt in the sealed palm grip.

He made a full recovery, passed the course and lived a full and contented life, btw.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy
*snip*


Originally Posted by TheThan
...if the person you're pulling the prank on is hurt and clearly not having fun afterwards, then your prank failed, even if you're the one left laughing.

This. The "wet" stunt was cruel, not funny.

[The_Ditto]

1: no one gets hurt- a trip to the emergency room is ever a good thing


Please, please, PLEASE tell me there's a typo there ... :smalleek:

[JustSomeGuy]

This. The "wet" stunt was cruel, not funny.

Naw, he saw fhe funny side and was cool with it. We were just like that back then (although it was an accident from a prank, not a prank as is)

[TheThan]

There's a great book about life on a Trident submarine, Big Red (http://www.amazon.com/Big-Red-Trident-Nuclear-Submarine/dp/0060194847/), which mentions a prank on the XO involving the disappearance of his cabin door.

Apart from the fact that he had no door, I recall he handled it fairly well, and the perps followed TheThan's three laws of military pranking.

I would like to point out that those laws apply to all pranks and practical jokes. Not just military ones.


Please, please, PLEASE tell me there's a typo there ... :smalleek:

Yeah that’s a typo. The N has disappeared. I’ve corrected it and some other stuff to make the whole thing flow the way it was supposed to (a line break sneaked into the wrong place... pesky buggers those line breaks).

[pendell]

So... responding to pranks ... what about turning the prank back around? Ir someone sends you out for a nonexistent item, give them back a photoshopped image? If they're playing a harmless prank on you, howzabout turning the tables?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Amaril]

So... responding to pranks ... what about turning the prank back around? Ir someone sends you out for a nonexistent item, give them back a photoshopped image? If they're playing a harmless prank on you, howzabout turning the tables?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

That was my idea. Even if it were insubordination, it'd be funny as hell to actually get access to a computer and printer and come back with what looks like an actual ID-10-T form :smalltongue:

[SouthpawSoldier]

Actually saw it happen, though it wasn't me.

I work aviation maintenance. My specific craft is electronics, though we participate in general aviation games. (Note; US Army aviation is almost entirely rotary wing, not fixed wing).

A standard stunt is to request a bucket of rotor wash, ostensibly to scrub a bird. "Rotor wash" is the term for the downdraft when a helicopter passes low enough that it kicks up dirt and debris. Usually kept in the basement of the hangar, and it requires an ID-10-T form to sign out from supply.

Lo and behold one morning at a joint operating base, the mark walked his happy tuchus over to the Air Force guys, and got a bucket of the cleaning fluid for (I assume) the rotors within their engines.

[The_Ditto]

That was my idea. Even if it were insubordination, it'd be funny as hell to actually get access to a computer and printer and come back with what looks like an actual ID-10-T form :smalltongue:

I was thinking that as well .. then tell him you had to break into the General's office, and found a couple of forms under whoever's file who sent you for the forms in the first place ;)

[SouthpawSoldier]

Another pair of favorites are FM (Field Manual) 22-102, and the congruent DA Form IMT WF1.

Wall to wall counselings (beatings) and the Hurt Feelings report

[Amaril]

A friend of mine in Air Cadets told me about the Hurt Feelings Report. I wasn't sure if it was just a cadets thing, or if they used them in other outfits. It sounded a little like something they only use for kids, but as my questions in this thread might indicate, I really don't know much of anything about the military.

[TheThan]

Actually saw it happen, though it wasn't me.

I work aviation maintenance. My specific craft is electronics, though we participate in general aviation games. (Note; US Army aviation is almost entirely rotary wing, not fixed wing).

A standard stunt is to request a bucket of rotor wash, ostensibly to scrub a bird. "Rotor wash" is the term for the downdraft when a helicopter passes low enough that it kicks up dirt and debris. Usually kept in the basement of the hangar, and it requires an ID-10-T form to sign out from supply.

Lo and behold one morning at a joint operating base, the mark walked his happy tuchus over to the Air Force guys, and got a bucket of the cleaning fluid for (I assume) the rotors within their engines.

that's pretty clever. haha