Rise of the Yuan-Ti - Fall of Humanity

[Dusk Raven]

So, I was reading Oriental Adventures for D&D 3.0, and a sample worldbuilding process posited a world with lush jungles and magnificent ruins infested with Yuan-Ti, with humanity living in city-states at the edge of the jungle. I rather liked the idea, and was inspired to create a setting where Yuan-Ti (always a favorite race of mine) are on the rise, and humanity is in decline, fighting a losing battle against the forces of nature itself. Does that interest you as well? Than read on...

Once, the world was covered by wilderness. In the south, thick jungles covered the land; in the north, forests and plains abounded. Beasts of all sorts roamed the lands, savage and unintelligent. From the animals rose the beast races, but they were like the beasts themselves, without culture or intellect. Such was nature, red in tooth and claw.

Then the gods saw fit to create humanity, and light came to the darkness of the wilderness.

They cut down the jungles and forests to make room for farms, and with the food from the farms they fed great cities. Humanity expanded and conquered the wilderness, with the Heavenly Castes and the code of Honor setting them apart from the beasts.

For a long time they flourished, building a mighty empire. But then strife erupted within humanity. A civil war erupted, with the rulership of the empire at stake. One side fought for honor, the other for mere power. The war tore apart the nation, leaving villages and lands ruined.

And in the midst of the fighting, the Yuan-Ti came. Revealing themselves as the orchestrators of the war, they backed the honorless side, and soon emerged as their masters. With the power of their magic, they brought the jungle back, overrunning countless civilized lands with jungle. Most of the empire was swallowed up by nature, the people within turning to the savage ways of the Yuan-Ti and the beast races.

Now, only seven cities remain of the once mighty empire. The wilderness encroaches from all sides, as do the beast races and the Yuan-Ti. Even as the Yuan-Ti wrap their coils around the ruins of the empire, the beast races of the world press in, sensing weakness in humanity. But the remains of the empire refuse to go quietly. With honor on their side, they fight back against the encroaching savages, vowing to one day retake their empire.

…Such is how the legends go in the remains of the human empire.

So that's the basic prompt I've come up with regarding this world. It's a very grey world - humanity, for all its proclamations of honor, looks down on those without honor or outside the caste system, and has an unhealthy dose of Manifest Destiny. The Yuan-Ti and other beast races, for their part, act according to the law of the jungle. It's a world I'd love to DM. But I can't do it alone. I need assistance - how to fit all the other D&D trappings, oriental or otherwise, into this setting? Thus, I propose a brainstorming session, where we attempt to build off each others ideas and create a world where, ultimately, humans are not the top dog. I'll post my own ideas shortly.

[Dusk Raven]

Some basic ideas about the two main factions in this setting. Feel free to use this info as a starting point or disregard it entirely.

The Empire:

Though little more than a collection of squabbling city-states, the Empire still remains strong in the hearts of its citizens. Currently the empire has no true leader – the capital city was overrun by the Yuan-Ti, with all heirs lost, and each city-state, while working together for the most part, vying for dominance over the survivors of the empire. To that end, each city seeks a method to achieve leadership – the most common goal is reclaiming the capital city, which would give the city claiming it legitimacy.

People in the Empire are divided into various castes – the priestly/leader caste, the warrior caste, and the farmer/artisan/merchant caste. Each has its own customs, though most conventions of honor are shared. Outside this system are various foreigners, beast races, and “untouchables” who do dishonorable acts or do dirty work.

Yuan-Ti:

The Yuan-Ti’s origins and motives are shrouded in mystery. They simply appeared one day in the jungles of the world, and begun to conquer the humans of the Empire, seducing them with promises of power and dividing them against each other. Equally disturbing are their ability to reproduce with humans, creating so-called “Halfblood” or “pureblood” lineages.

The Yuan-Ti prefer subterfuge to open conflict, and in keeping with this philosophy, their ways are strange and mysterious to humans. Though they lack a code of honor as the Empire recognizes it, they seem to have certain codes of conduct, depending on the Yuan-TI, as well as a veneration for nature.

[Yora]

Great idea. Though it seems to be a rather unconventional interpretation of yuan-ti. Usually they are treated and presented as highly intelligent with advanced magic and access to ancient lore and overall highly sophisticated, which is only held back by their decline as numbers decrease and their most powerful leaders die without equally capable successors.
The yuan-ti of D&D don't want to destroy human civilization and return the world to wilderness, but to subjugate the humanoids and make them slaves in their own highly advanced and superior empires.

Which of course is an entirely valid option in worldbuilding. I would personally probably go back to the original and generic name Naga, who are indeed known as protectors of nature. (Though I am not sure if the halfbreeds are an originally idea introduced in D&D.)

[sktarq]

My first thought is a question of why the human's would help the YuanTi in this scenario. Classically the YuanTi hide behind a layer of human proxies (which could be an enviable position in terms of wealth and power) or are on often ancient home turf with powerful organizations, numbers, and mystical resources. So how do they get flacks who organize their food collection even?

They basically need a story that competes with Empires view of the world in such a way as pull followers. They don't need everyone but a good chunk of the populace needs to be on their side. It would usually be best to base such a "why are we better" type narrative on an actual flaw in the Imperial system, say corruption, cure an affliction that the powers that be can't (an that affliction could a disease or even a spiritual or social affliction like a lack of justice) the Yuan Ti have far more powerful and active divine casters showing a truer link the gods perhaps. Very few people choose "evil" but they will define themselves as "good".


I guess part of what I saying above is why we're the YuanTi able-a group in your world seemingly without the numbers (since they were small enough to remain unknown) or ancient past resources to draw from able to take down the might empire that presumably had survived many challenges already in its long history?

Also a question of what do they want and why comes up. Forgotten realms Yuan Ti (probably the baseline most people are thinking about-and their Serpent Kingdoms resource book may be a valuable mine for you to be inspired by) are trying to recreate a lost civ, basically. What are your YuanTi trying to do? If they are new they have no lost civ so do they have a dream of what kind of world they want and would be willing to lay down their lives and work to scheme for?

Also how do the other sentient - the "beast men" figure into the Empire and Yuan Ti world views-could be interesting.

[Dusk Raven]

My first thought is a question of why the human's would help the YuanTi in this scenario. Classically the YuanTi hide behind a layer of human proxies (which could be an enviable position in terms of wealth and power) or are on often ancient home turf with powerful organizations, numbers, and mystical resources. So how do they get flacks who organize their food collection even?

They basically need a story that competes with Empires view of the world in such a way as pull followers. It would usually be best to base such a "why are we better" type narrative on an actual flaw in the Imperial system, say corruption, the Yuan Ti have far more powerful and active divine casters showing a truer link the gods. Very few people choose "evil" but they will define themselves as "good".

The way I figure it started out was this - the humans' caste system marginalizes a lot of people, from the Untouchables to the lowest rungs of the "producer" caste. Think about it - suddenly there's a society which doesn't condemn them for doing work that needs to be done, a society in which they can actually gain respect. It's also interesting to note that, over in America, there was a constant, if low-level, stream of defections from "civilized" society to the Native American cultures, so there's probably something like that in this setting.

Also, I don't consider the Yuan-Ti evil in this setting, so there's that.


I guess part of what I saying above is why we're the YuanTi able-a group in your world seemingly without the numbers (since they were small enough to remain unknown) or ancient past resources to draw from able to take down the might empire that presumably had survived many challenges already in its long history?

Also a question of what do they want and why comes up. Forgotten realms Yuan Ti (probably the baseline most people are thinking about-and their Serpent Kingdoms resource book may be a valuable mine for you to be inspired by) are trying to recreate a lost civ, basically. What are your YuanTi trying to do? If they are new they have no lost civ so do they have a dream of what kind of world they want and would be willing to lay down their lives and work to scheme for?

Well, as I said, the empire got torn apart by a civil war, part of which was orchestrated by the Yuan-Ti. Then the Yuan-Ti came in with powerful magic and possibly aid from powerful Fey, Outsiders, and spirits. You could even posit that the empire was in decline already.

My Yuan-Ti... as for what they're trying to do, and this ties in to "what is their story" idea, is basically replace humanity as masters of the world - and in a different capacity than humans. See, the Yuan-Ti side of the story is that the gods, looking upon what humanity had done to the world, regretted making them, and created the Yuan-Ti to replace them.

[sktarq]

Also you said the YuanTi brought the jungle back. This would require either a tiered garden agricultural system (where root veg are grown under bushes under nut and other useful trees under lumber trees etc) which would be a major cultural revolution or a massive lessening of the amount of space (and thus even with say druidic help) a fall in agricultural output and thus the sustainable population.
Now if say war, and war associated plagues and famines caused most of the fall off I could see how the YuanTi would be welcomed as a stabilizing force but otherwise where did the people who lived off the food produced by the now jungle land go?

Also if the Yuan Ti are trying to replace the humans do you mean as the masters of the world or as in removing the humans and filling the void? If the former in particular you may want to play up things like ecological damage that the empire did, at least in YuanTi type internal propaganda. Could play up humans who ally with them as wanting to be"Part of the solution" and/or "part of the gods plan" and why the YuanTi can/do breed with them.


Also while you say the Yuan Ti helped start a civil war to help them take on the Empire-How? How did they get allies tto push the right buttons to get one going. If a group of say priests or a cabal of wizards couldn't do it regularly throughout the empire's history why could the yuan ti? Was it the outside help of daemons and/fey? If they were eventually controlling the the side that wanted power was the civil war actually never supposed to happen? And since they wanted power I would presume the YuanTi controlled them by aiding with their access to power-but I'm not seeing what resource they had access to in order to help. Info from a spy network of early cultists plus magic? Or did the YuanTi take control of one side during the war-acting first as an ally and getting the word out in return -because how would the population react to side that was openly answering to non-humans normally-seems probably negative.

I ask because it sets up what kind of cultural traits would form in the surviving human controlled city states-which I presume the PC's will mostly hail and what type of missions can be run against the yuan ti.

____________
Huh-An idea: the yuanTi have degrees of internal division about the role of humans

From most Pro-human to least

1) Human are ignorant and often deaf to the gods but as long as they respect and follow the goal and type of civilization we YuanTi think best that's fine. Groups of advisors and spies that help these "independent" humans along should be enough. The "divine plan" that the yuan ti carry is more important than who directly carries it out.

2) Humans are flawed and yuan ti are fix. Humans need leadership and direction of yuan ti leaders in order to fuffil the divine goals. Human can help in these goals and are even central to them. --YuanTi are charged with bringing the "divine plan" to fruition and thus must lead the humans to their part in the plan.

3) Humans have lost their mandate and are a tool in the YuanTi mastery of the world. The gods gave the YuanTi the directive to take down the empire and lead the world. Those humans who accept their place as part of supporting the new order may be tolerated and treated well (and in fact should be lauded for fulfilling their divinely appointed role-a respectable thing) but all humans must do their part in the divine plan, by force if necessary. The wisest humans who accept this fully may be worthy of joining the YuanTi. ---Yuan ti must make sure the divine plan is carried out and their role is to lead this effort-the human role is to follow.

4)Yuan Ti have been granted mastery of the of the world in order to carry out the divine plan-this mastery extends to humans-do with them what you will.

5) Humans had their chance and proved they were a divine failure thus they must be removed and replaced by their successors, us the Yuan Ti

If most Yuan Ti belong to groups 2 & 3 you'd have chances to show the YuanTi as either acceptable or as evil as you need them for that particular plot. Groups 4 and 5 may be even banned within the yuanTi in some areas. But at the same time it is those groups that pointed to by the free humans as the horror of Yuan Ti domination and a source for all the human sacrifice and what not you can have fun with for the baddies.

[Dusk Raven]

Also you said the YuanTi brought the jungle back. This would require either a tiered garden agricultural system (where root veg are grown under bushes under nut and other useful trees under lumber trees etc) which would be a major cultural revolution or a massive lessening of the amount of space (and thus even with say druidic help) a fall in agricultural output and thus the sustainable population.
Now if say war, and war associated plagues and famines caused most of the fall off I could see how the YuanTi would be welcomed as a stabilizing force but otherwise where did the people who lived off the food produced by the now jungle land go?

Also if the Yuan Ti are trying to replace the humans do you mean as the masters of the world or as in removing the humans and filling the void? If the former in particular you may want to play up things like ecological damage that the empire did, at least in YuanTi type internal propaganda. Could play up humans who ally with them as wanting to be"Part of the solution" and/or "part of the gods plan" and why the YuanTi can/do breed with them.


Also while you say the Yuan Ti helped start a civil war to help them take on the Empire-How? How did they get allies tto push the right buttons to get one going. If a group of say priests or a cabal of wizards couldn't do it regularly throughout the empire's history why could the yuan ti? Was it the outside help of daemons and/fey? If they were eventually controlling the the side that wanted power was the civil war actually never supposed to happen? And since they wanted power I would presume the YuanTi controlled them by aiding with their access to power-but I'm not seeing what resource they had access to in order to help. Info from a spy network of early cultists plus magic? Or did the YuanTi take control of one side during the war-acting first as an ally and getting the word out in return -because how would the population react to side that was openly answering to non-humans normally-seems probably negative.

I ask because it sets up what kind of cultural traits would form in the surviving human controlled city states-which I presume the PC's will mostly hail and what type of missions can be run against the yuan ti.

Okay, let me see if I can take these one at a time.

You're right, there would be a drop in the sustainability of the land with the return of the jungle (Which was likely achieved through high/epic level Druid spells or even divine intervention). I think the war would have reduced the population of the area to some extent, and I think a number would have fled to the surviving civilized lands, but there'd still likely be food shortages for a while.

As for replacing the humans, it likely varies - some want to just replace humans entirely, others just want to displace them. But it's not a matter of filling a void - to the Yuan-Ti, humans are like a cancer, so after removing them there'd be no void to fill.

As for how they managed to overthrow an empire where none had succeeded before - I'm not entirely sure. It may be that, like the Roman Empire, the humans' empire was already in decline and the Yuan-Ti merely accelerated it. But I think it may have to do with an unprecedented split, such that almost entirely half the Empire rebelled. It's possible the Yuan-Ti had hands in this, helping to organize and place rebellious leaders in power.


Huh-An idea: the yuanTi have degrees of internal division about the role of humans

From most Pro-human to least

1) Human are ignorant and often deaf to the gods but as long as they respect and follow the goal and type of civilization we YuanTi think best that's fine. Groups of advisors and spies that help these "independent" humans along should be enough. The "divine plan" that the yuan ti carry is more important than who directly carries it out.

2) Humans are flawed and yuan ti are fix. Humans need leadership and direction of yuan ti leaders in order to fuffil the divine goals. Human can help in these goals and are even central to them. --YuanTi are charged with bringing the "divine plan" to fruition and thus must lead the humans to their part in the plan.

3) Humans have lost their mandate and are a tool in the YuanTi mastery of the world. The gods gave the YuanTi the directive to take down the empire and lead the world. Those humans who accept their place as part of supporting the new order may be tolerated and treated well (and in fact should be lauded for fulfilling their divinely appointed role-a respectable thing) but all humans must do their part in the divine plan, by force if necessary. The wisest humans who accept this fully may be worthy of joining the YuanTi. ---Yuan ti must make sure the divine plan is carried out and their role is to lead this effort-the human role is to follow.

4)Yuan Ti have been granted mastery of the of the world in order to carry out the divine plan-this mastery extends to humans-do with them what you will.

5) Humans had their chance and proved they were a divine failure thus they must be removed and replaced by their successors, us the Yuan Ti

If most Yuan Ti belong to groups 2 & 3 you'd have chances to show the YuanTi as either acceptable or as evil as you need them for that particular plot. Groups 4 and 5 may be even banned within the yuanTi in some areas. But at the same time it is those groups that pointed to by the free humans as the horror of Yuan Ti domination and a source for all the human sacrifice and what not you can have fun with for the baddies.

An interesting idea - it makes sense that there'd be ideological divisions within the Yuan-Ti. Most would likely fall within the 2-3 range, I think, with extremist factions of 5, and a few 1s here and there. There's probably a similar divide with regards to whether to turn humans into "Tainted Ones" - some may think it a process for volunteers only, while others believe that all humans should undergo the procedure.

[Dusk Raven]

So, I spent a bit of time thinking of what other races might populate the setting, and came up with three possibilities:

Asena (count as Gnolls, rule-wise):

The Asena are wolflike humanoids who hail from the west, in the steppes at the foot of the Great Mountains. There they live a nomadic lifestyle, roaming from place to place in search of food. Their roving often puts them at odds with each other and with humanity, though the arid nature of the plains – as well as the Asena’s warrior prowess - prevents much encroachment of humanity onto Asena territory. Humans, unsurprisingly, tend to view Asena as barbaric.

When the Yuan-Ti arrived, the Asena took advantage of the chaos to strike at humanity, claiming much fertile territory in the process. Though the two sides now share a tenuous peace, it is rumored that the Yuan-Ti are allying with the Asena to fight against humanity.

Tengu:

The Tengu's relation to the humans and their Empire can probably be characterized by their first contact, which involved the Tengu emissaries greeting the human Empire on behalf of the Tengu Empire in the east, whereupon the humans sent them away, refusing contact on the grounds that there was only one Empire, that of the humans (I hear this is actually how first contact between Japan and China went). Only later would the humans learn that the Tengu were not only quite civilized but also quite powerful.

Eventually humans established formal relations with the Tengu, but the human conception of Tengu has another “beast race” somewhat chilled relations. Nonetheless, as the Tengu are the closest of the beast races to holding to a human system of honor, they have what might be called grudging respect from the Empire. This respect was not enough to elicit aid from the Tengu when the Empire fell, though the Tengu did take in many refugees who wished shelter.

Vanara:

The Vanara are monkeylike humanoids that live in treetop villages in the jungles to the south. While good-natured, and sworn enemies of the evil Rakshasa, the Empire always snubbed the Vanara as being primitive barbarians. Relations were not helped by humans destroying the jungles that the Vanara used as their homes.

When the Yuan-Ti arrived, however, the Vanara did not gain as much as would be expected. Though the return of the jungle meant their homes were no longer threatened, relations between the Vanara and the Yuan-Ti were always cold for reasons unknown. Not helped was the fact that the Vanara acquired little territory when the jungle expanded, with most of the new wilderness falling under the control of the Yuan-Ti. While the occational Vanara adventurer has seen fit to help one side or the other, it remains to be seen which side their culture as a whole will back.


The Asena are intended to be based on Mongolian/Turkish culture, the Tengu loosely based around a more relaxed version of Japan, and the Vanara are based on Hindu lore, with possible Southeast Asia undertones.

[sktarq]

That sounds quite interesting with the various beast men.
You said that this idea started with oriental adventures -so the ratfolk? Extant? A similar role?

Also all three are highly geographically limited. Either the humans were the only starting race in the northern forests that you mentioned in the opening post or a couple more races may be needed.

A couple things that may be interesting:
A refuge race. No home type.
Also perhaps something that had a predilection for making underground bolt hole and other dungeons. For your players to explore.
A coastal race -possibly wiped out but a source of alien ideas and images.

As for what animals? I would say symbolic and thematic issues matter more than rules. Reskin something that works for you.

[Dusk Raven]

That sounds quite interesting with the various beast men.
You said that this idea started with oriental adventures -so the ratfolk? Extant? A similar role?

Also all three are highly geographically limited. Either the humans were the only starting race in the northern forests that you mentioned in the opening post or a couple more races may be needed.

A couple things that may be interesting:
A refuge race. No home type.
Also perhaps something that had a predilection for making underground bolt hole and other dungeons. For your players to explore.
A coastal race -possibly wiped out but a source of alien ideas and images.

As for what animals? I would say symbolic and thematic issues matter more than rules. Reskin something that works for you.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about the northern forests... well, in my mind, human territory kinda extends to the north and ends at the sea. From humans perspective the land extends to the south and the west, with an island nation (the Tengu) to the east and lands unknown to the far north. I could add some land north of human territory, however - doubtless I could draw cultural inspiration from, say, Tibet (always under-appreciated) or other regions in the area.

As for an underground race, the Nezumi, if their low-light vision was replaced with Darkvision, would be an interesting choice. The idea of a refugee race also appeals to me - in my more "mainstream" D&D race the goblinoids filled that role, so perhaps Tasloi or some similarly goblinoid race could fill that niche. I imagine such a race would likely have occupied the land that the human Empire took over, and would hold an ancient grudge against humanity for taking "their" land. A coastal race would be easy to add, there's plenty of aquatic races in the Monster Manual to choose from.

[sktarq]

Another place to gain inspiration for your northern places also could include the Siberian Tribes, and groups like the Ugevny (native to just N. Of Valdivostok)

Also a sinple question with large metaphorical implications. Somewhere I think in serpent kingdoms) WotC published rules of some spell of potion that turned a human (or possible tainted one) into a Yuan Ti pureblood (also ones for turning pureblood into halfbloods). Do these options exist in your world.

[Dusk Raven]

I thought about Siberia as well, but wrote them off as being too far north to interact with the humans in the south. Nontheless I'll look at the Arctic races in Unearthed Arcana, see if the rules for any stick out. Arctic Kobolds, perhaps?

As for the "evolving" lesser Yuan-Ti into higher forms, that's in the Savage Species sourcebook, via the Yuan-Ti Cultist prestige class. I'm not sure whether to incorporate that or not, but I think it would fit nicely.

[Dusk Raven]

So, I took out a map-making program I use and came up with a quick and rough map of the "known lands" (from the humans' perspective) of the setting. The results are below:

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc69/Dusk_Raven/RP%20Tools/SethverseMapVersion1_zpsb55706f3.jpg

The circles are the seven remaining cities of humanity. To the east we have the island nation of the Tengu, and to the west, between the brown lines, are the steppe territory of the Asena. Everything south of the green line is jungle. I haven't gotten around to marking the extent of the old Empire, and that would indicate roughly the territory of the Yuan-Ti and Vanara.

The grid is a property of the map-making program I used, and on closer inspection one square might represent one day's travel.

[sktarq]

Well is you say "a day's travel" is 20 miles (a highly generous measure for crow's flight distance) the Coast to mountain range is 20 squares or about 400 miles-does that scale work for you. Look at two points the same latitude distance north or south of a jungle against an ocean as see is a similar terrain variation works for you. Also the region where the savanna dwellers are would be small for a species - so either expand it (possibly a different culture in the mountain valleys of the same species) or have them be know to exist elsewhere and are just locally pinched.

[Dusk Raven]

Hmm, you're right. I guess I'm just used to dealing in small-scale maps. Two days travel, perhaps? That'd quadruple the land available to everybody, if I recall my math right. As for the steppe-dwellers, it would make sense for them to both exist in the mountains, and be kind of... restricted. I imagine they were present elsewhere as well but humans shoved them up against the mountains.

Meanwhile, some more info:

Iuocha:

The Iuocha are small humanoids with russet or dark brown fur, doglike snouts, and grim dispositions. They inhabit the cold reaches of the north, where they eke out a living. They frequently make their homes in caves, which they mine out of the uneven terrain of the north.

Iuocha are tightly-knit, but suspicious of outsiders. Despite this suspicion, they have found that mining the rare metals of the north is quite lucrative, and that the southern races will pay quite handsomely in goods and inventions of the south for these metals.


The Devas and the Asuras:

These celestial beings are the progenitors of humankind. Once they were the same manner of being (in as far as the many and varied types could be called the same being), but they were split in two by a massive war. Legend holds that the conflict was over how to treat their child-race, whether to gently nurture humanity or enslave it. Others suggest the split was over whether or not to establish a system of order amongst the humans, or what the role of humanity in the world should be.

Regardless of the reason, these beings split into two factions, the Devas and the Asuras. The Asuras were more numerous, but the Devas had humanity on their side, and with the unlikely aid of their children, they triumphed over the Asuras, albeit with heavy losses. Since that war, both Asuras and Devas have retreated into their own demi-planes, where they each enact their own plan for humanity. The Devas attempt to instill structure and order to human society, while Asuras attempt to undo that same order. Devas and Asuras, while generally being favorable and unfavorable to human society, respectively, are not necessarily benevolent or malevolent, and the morality of each is a grey area at best.