Yugoloth "serving" a paladin?

[DrMotives]

Players have a habit of turning minor enemies I plan on being alive for only 1 fight into things that last for multiple sessions. In a one on one side campaign I'm DMing, the PC is a paladin of freedom from Unearthed Arcana, and a previously encountered secondary BB is a piscoloth fiend of possession. A filler combat tonight was against some random goons, 2 of which were wielding battleloths. One crossbow battleloth survived the fight by surrendering to the paladin, and admitting it was a soldier under the piscoloth BB, but would work for the PC at a steep discount in exchange for its life.

The PC decided that the appropriate paladin thing to do would be to give the daemon a chance. So now I have this minor fiend in service to the paladin. Yes the paladin's detect evil has pinged on the thing. But I don't know if I should have it turn traitor at the first opportunity so the PC kills it, or let it stay somewhat loyal? It's a very weak monster, but it advances by class level so it could get interesting.

The overall theme of this campaign is slavery, to counter the freedom paladin. The main enemy is a nation of slave-taking gnolls, with the fiend of possession & a vampire to riff of other aspects of anti-freedom. The player has been gathering allies from several small or weak nations to build up a force to counter the military might of the gnolls. So what's a not-boring way to use this little daemon crossbow guy?

[A_S]

I'd say the most interesting way to handle this would be to leave it somewhat ambiguous whether the Yugoloth in question is being reformed. Have it make somewhat convincing strides in the right direction, but also present the player with some hints that maybe it's just faking redemption for its own nefarious ends. That way you get to present the Paladin player with some interesting/hard choices about... How important mercy is versus the destruction of evil
Whether trusting someone untrustworthy is really the right thing to do
How important allowing other creatures agency, even evil creatures, is to a freedom-valuing character like a Paladin of Freedom
Whether redemption is about changes in action or changes in attitude...etc.

Then at the end of the plot arc, you get to reveal that either the Daemon really has been redeemed, with all the "good job good guys" payoff that comes along with that, or that he's been faking it all along, for a darker "you can't save them all" take-home message.

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Of course, doing this involves coming up with a whole lot of new content for a character you originally intended to unceremoniously die during his first appearance. There's nothing in the Big Book o' Good DM'ing that says you have to do the most interesting thing possible with every character the PC's encounter...if you do, you'll end up constantly sidetracked and never get far in the stuff you actually have planned for the campaign. So, if a fiend-redemption arc sounds like fun to you, run with it. If not, just have the critter betray the PC's right away, and they can kill it off and move along with the real story.

[Sam K]

Have it turn into an example of pragmatic evil? It's actually quite possible for an evil creature to work fairly well with a good party, especially if the evil creature is less powerful and thus enjoys the very real benefit of protection. As long as the benefits outweight the costs, why shouldn't a pragmatic evil creature work with good?

Your yugoloth was a minor fiend with no real power or chance of advancement. Then the paladin shows up, and the fiend gets a better deal, AND a chance to advance! You don't have to be a archfiend to figure out that "less abuse and chance for real power" > "getting to kick a puppy every now and then".

The thing to remember is that pragmatic evil is pragmatic. Hanging out with a higher level party may be enough of a boon that it is actually worth taking some risks to keep that benefit, but a pragmatic evil will always look at the risk/reward aspect first. Suicide missions are right out! It is unlikely to betray the party at first chance, but a good enough offer would sway it. And as it advances, it may just decide that it no longer needs the party, and strike out on it's own.

[Arbane]

The thing to remember is that pragmatic evil is pragmatic. Hanging out with a higher level party may be enough of a boon that it is actually worth taking some risks to keep that benefit, but a pragmatic evil will always look at the risk/reward aspect first. Suicide missions are right out! It is unlikely to betray the party at first chance, but a good enough offer would sway it. And as it advances, it may just decide that it no longer needs the party, and strike out on it's own.

Of course, there's the question of just how pragmatic a creature that's literally made of evil can be.

[Karl Aegis]

Have him ask for more and more money. If a professional wants to get out of a business arrangement, they would rather have the other party terminate the arrangement instead of them. If the other party can't afford them, they have to terminate. A Paladin of Freedom wouldn't want to force someone to work for them without compensation, after all.

[hamishspence]

Given the number of "redeemed fiends" out there - it appears that "containing evil energy" might be a better description. Especially since a fiend has a chance of surviving energy removal and replacement (the ritual in Savage Species that swaps Evil subtype for Good subtype has a chance of killing the creature, but is not guaranteed to.

[atemu1234]

Of course, there's the question of just how pragmatic a creature that's literally made of evil can be.

Highly; if it thinks it can accomplish more evil through you as opposed to... well, the more literal sense of "through you".... it'll work with you.

That's made of chaos you're thinking of.

[Bronk]

Well, first of all, knowingly adventuring with the fiend or any evil character is still completely forbidden by the Paladin of Freedom's code of conduct. So there's that.

I do think this could be a good idea, but my suggestion would be to not let the paladin get complacent about it. If you allow this, the PC should be constantly wary of the fiend, and consistently trying to redeem it. There are a number of spells they could use or quest for, plus there are rules for changing alignment through constant diplomacy.

If not (and in the early stages regardless) the battleloth should be trying to get away or betray the paladin and the party at every convenience. Yugoloths are notorious for breaking deals and contracts after all. The attempts could range in severity to outright murder attempts right through 'oops, shot at the wrong guy' and all the way down to 'walked off with all their stuff'.

[unbutu]

I think it would be interesting to have the Yugoloth both betray them, and stay with them so they have to react to it.

What I'm thinking of could be:

-He gives information to old allies on how to ambush the party. This leads to a very tough battle where the ennemy is waiting for them, and the Yugoloth begins, like, adjacent to their mage :P

-More interesting: He slowly steals items he can from the party, and stash them away. This one is interesting because the party might want to check him more: But then, do they put chains on him like a slave ? Some people might want to deal with him, the paladin might defend his right to live. Ect ect.

[hamishspence]

There are a number of spells they could use or quest for, plus there are rules for changing alignment through constant diplomacy.

Those rules specifically don't work on fiends. Which doesn't prevent redeemed fiends from existing, but it does make it harder for the players to redeem one. Basically, the DM has to choose to allow the fiend to start changing.

[atemu1234]

Those rules specifically don't work on fiends. Which doesn't prevent redeemed fiends from existing, but it does make it harder for the players to redeem one. Basically, the DM has to choose to allow the fiend to start changing.

RAW on this please.

[hamishspence]

Page 29: BOED (the Mercy, Prisoners, and Redemption section, that covers using Diplomacy checks to change an Evil or Neutral character's alignment:

"Outsiders with the Evil subtype are immune to redemption in this manner."

Notable nonevil fiends include Fall-From-Grace (Planescape Torment, and mentioned in Dragon Magazine's Demonomicon: Malcanthet), and, Eludecia, from WOTC Fight Club:

Eludecia The Succubus Paladin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a)

[Psyren]

The Yugo's goal here will generally be to try and make the paladin fall, or failing that, at least try and betray him when he least expects it. If is serious about reforming though, other fiends will probably attempt to kill it and its companions at some point.

If you do want to make redeeming it possible, I would have it eventually undergo a transformation into a guardinal/agathion, perhaps after having the paladin selflessly and heroically defend it from harm while it is helpless, especially after some form of betrayal the yugo itself engineered.

[P.F.]

Let's see, how can this sub-plot play out? I see a few possible motifs here. There are certainly others, but this should outline some of the most likely scenarios, in order of most to least likely.


Grim/Nihilistic: The hero is betrayed at the first available opportunity, the Yugoloth dies, and the Paladin's credibility, objectives, alliances, etc are damaged in the process.
.
Tragic (for the daemon): The Yugoloth attempts to escape, or is caught in a compromising situation, and dies having neither betrayed his new friend nor having achieved redemption.
.
Tragic (epic/heroic): The daemon alternates between genuine repentance and recidivism, never pushing the hero quite to the point of slaying or rejecting him. This dynamic eventually results in the Paladin's fall from grace. His fate remains linked to that of the Yugoloth, whom he must either redeem or slay at great personal cost before he can be restored.
.
Uplifting/Inspirational: The daemon genuinely wants to leave behind his evil ways, and, with the hero's help, achieves first a measure of control over his evil urges, and, eventually, is transformed into a good-aligned creature.
.
Tragic (for the hero): The daemon's behavior is not overtly evil, but neither does he become good (or neutral); meanwhile, the hero accepts the Yugoloth's continued pleas for protection from lawful-aligned persecutors. The Paladin's inflexibility ironically dooms him to an eventual fall from grace as he tries to honor his agreement with the daemon while holding true to his personal code. The paladin must choose between betraying the Yugoloth or fighting on the wrong side in a battle of good versus evil.
.
Lighthearted/Comedic: The hapless daemon persists in his evil ways with nothing but harmless shenanigans, while the long-suffering hero tries to keep him out of trouble and patiently explains the subtle differences between right and wrong. Eventually, the Yugoloth becomes a mischievous, but non-evil character.


In the meantime, themes of racism, intolerance, and prejudice plague the hero and his unusual side-kick. This undermines some alliances with characters whose reservations are entirely justified, while bolstering the support from characters who may have had a spotty past themselves.