Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne: Problems with Yukari Takeba's Social Links?

[goto124]

I just read this from the Tvtropes page on Values Dissonance:

"if the mechanic of "reversing" Social Links, and with Yukari's Defrosting Ice Queen storyline at several points requiring decisions where the Japanese vs. American perspective on how "best" to act are practically opposite, it's ridiculously easy to make the wrong decisions and thusly break her Social Link."

This got me curious. How exactly does the problem present itself? I tried googling for it, but didn't get much details. What are the situations presented, and what are the 'correct' choices? I hope I get to hear from people who've played the game.

[Tengu_temp]

I don't remember her social link being particularily tricky. Maybe it's because I'm not American, but I suspect the real reason is that whoever wrote that entry on TV Tropes simply has really bad social skills and used culture dissonance as an excuse.

[goto124]

Which was why I'd wanted to see specific examples of breaking Social Links in-game, which would really clear up any confusion.

I'd tried googling, but I can't seem to find them. The guides I found don't seem to mention Yukari except in passing...

[Cristo Meyers]

I don't remember her social link being particularily tricky. Maybe it's because I'm not American, but I suspect the real reason is that whoever wrote that entry on TV Tropes simply has really bad social skills and used culture dissonance as an excuse.

Yeah, the TvT pages have a lot of...questionable info concerning both P3 and P4 sometimes. Lot of opinion masquerading as fact.

I didn't get very far into her Link, but there was one situation where when given a choice of action the action my wife (who was watching) thought was obviously correct turned out reversing the Link. The one I would have taken was I think actually the best one.

Either she'd just had a run-in with some bullies or we had just run them off, I can't remember which. Yukari is seething. Three options, one of which is something like 'hug her.' Doing so goes about as well as you would expect.

[goto124]

Hugging an angry person... I can't imagine cultural differences affecting it too much. But small sample size and all, and thank you for your help.

Is save scumming an option for these sort of Social Links?

[Cristo Meyers]

Hugging an angry person... I can't imagine cultural differences affecting it too much. But small sample size and all, and thank you for your help.

Yeah, I'm not sure if that's what TvT is talking about either. But also that happens at like, level 3. It's an early event, so there's plenty of room for more. Zevox here on Giants is pretty well-versed in SMT, he'd probably be better able to explain than I.


Is save scumming an option for these sort of Social Links?

Couldn't hurt. There's a save point somewhere outside the dorm, I think, and time only advances when you head back to the dorm or do an activity.

[tyckspoon]

Hugging an angry person... I can't imagine cultural differences affecting it too much. But small sample size and all, and thank you for your help.

Is save scumming an option for these sort of Social Links?

Yeah. It's a bit inconvenient, but for most/all of the link opportunities I think you should be able to save shortly before you go on them and generally not have to deal with going through a fight sequence or a cutscene or forced conversation or anything. Just have to go find the character and retry the link meeting.. and of course remember to use the appropriate save point.

Edit: On the original question, well... I just shamelessly used a guide for most of social linking, because that was easier to do than remembering to save scum correctly and I wasn't about to sacrifice precious open time slots on a dud S-Link! But I don't remember any of Yukari's options seeming especially odd; the hugging thing, for example, doesn't strike me as being about Japanese or American mores on interaction - it's about hugging a person who you really don't know all that well yet and who hasn't given you permission to touch her, and who is not in a very positive mood.

Although there are also some events where *nothing* you can choose is actually right; you won't break the S-Link, but you won't get any advancement from the event either.

[Cristo Meyers]

Yeah. It's a bit inconvenient, but for most/all of the link opportunities I think you should be able to save shortly before you go on them and generally not have to deal with going through a fight sequence or a cutscene or forced conversation or anything. Just have to go find the character and retry the link meeting.. and of course remember to use the appropriate save point.

Don't forget to have a Persona that matches the Arcana of the Social Link too (the Lovers in this case). It gives you bonus points towards leveling up the Link.

[Tengu_temp]

Is save scumming an option for these sort of Social Links?

That's not what save scumming means, because you're neither abusing a RNG nor adding a save option to a game that doesn't have one Sorry, pet peeve.

You can load an earlier save, obviously, though in the PS2 version of Persona 3 you can only save in the evening, not during the day - so it'd have to be the evening of the previous day, and you'd have to redo everything you did that day. But most of the time that's a couple of minutes at most.

[Zevox]

Yeah, I'm not sure if that's what TvT is talking about either. But also that happens at like, level 3. It's an early event, so there's plenty of room for more. Zevox here on Giants is pretty well-versed in SMT, he'd probably be better able to explain than I.
'Fraid not. I don't recall anything unusual with Yukari's social link myself. Though it has been a couple of years since I last played the game now (I should really rectify that, come to think of it), so I suppose I might just be forgetting something.

Since it's bugging me however, I will point out that the thread title names the wrong game. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne is a completely separate thing from Persona 3, and Yukari (and the social link mechanic) is from the latter, not the former.

[goto124]

I might have to redo my google search with Persona 3 instead of Shin Megami. That explains a lot about why I wasn't getting results.

[tensai_oni]

I find this thread very unusual. Correct me if I'm wrong but you didn't actually play Persona 3 and just stumbled upon a TVTropes example?

In that case I wonder what motivated you to start the thread and make extra research online. I'm not judging or anything, but I am curious.

BTW, TVTropes is generally a bad source regarding this kind of thing.

[Zevox]

I might have to redo my google search with Persona 3 instead of Shin Megami. That explains a lot about why I wasn't getting results.
Well, Persona 3's full official name is technically Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3. At least internationally - the SMT title was never attached to the Persona series inside Japan. Nocturne is something else though, from the main SMT series, and is unrelated to the Persona series.

Google will probably work fine just calling it Persona 3 though. Most fans tend to do that, since adding the full title is kind of tedious and pointless, especially since Atlus seems to have decided to drop "Shin Megami Tensei" from the titles of Persona games even internationally now (the PS Vita remake of Persona 4 dropped it, and none of the recent spin-off titles have included it).

[goto124]

I've managed to find this video. Watching it now, looking for stuff to pick up on. If only my phone wasn't so slow...

Sorry for moblie link.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BpetlIualbk

[Kish]

Well, I know what it's talking about, but it mainly makes me feel sorry for any woman who has to deal with the person who wrote that on TVTropes. And this is speaking as someone who despises Yukari.

(Hint: "When a woman has just fought off a group of muggers of whom at least one implied planning sexual assault, it may make her really angry if instead of responding to what she says verbally you try to hug her" is not a weird Japanese notion which seems goofy to Americans.)