How Would GitP players handle this?

[Scorponok]

A spellcaster of some sort appears in the sky one day, and takes 6 rounds and casts a bunch of fireballs into a major city. The fireballs kill a lot of people. Just as soon as they appeared, they vanished. There were some witnesses who said they might have seen a person dressed all in black appear in the sky, but did not see them shoot any fireballs.

Assuming that you can make a character no higher than level 8, using 3.5 core rules, with the Complete series, Book of 9 Swords, and Miniatures Handbook as sources, how would you go finding out who was responsible for this atrocity?

Note: This didn't actually happen exactly like this, but something close.

[(Un)Inspired]

A spellcaster of some sort appears in the sky one day, and takes 6 rounds and casts a bunch of fireballs into a major city. The fireballs kill a lot of people. Just as soon as they appeared, they vanished. There were some witnesses who said they might have seen a person dressed all in black appear in the sky, but did not see them shoot any fireballs.

Assuming that you can make a character no higher than level 8, using 3.5 core rules, with the Complete series, Book of 9 Swords, and Miniatures Handbook as sources, how would you go finding out who was responsible for this atrocity?

Note: This didn't actually happen exactly like this, but something close.

Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Archivist, or Erudite 8.

I spam-cast Scrying till the fire balling person fails a will save. With what I see of their surroundings I spam cast Commune to find out just where their location is.

EDIT: scratch the Archivist and Erudite. I just realized they're on your no fly list.

[Scorponok]

Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Archivist, or Erudite 8.

I spam-cast Scrying till the fire balling person fails a will save. With what I see of their surroundings I spam cast Commune to find out just where their location is.
.

That was my first thought as well, but I'm not sure if Scrying would work. Don't you need to have some connection to the person? I guess if there were none, they would get a +10 to their Will Save, but enough level 8 investigator Clerics and Sorcerers doing it and the culprit will probably roll a low save eventually.

[(Un)Inspired]

That was my first thought as well, but I'm not sure if Scrying would work. Don't you need to have some connection to the person? I guess if there were none, they would get a +10 to their Will Save, but enough level 8 investigator Clerics and Sorcerers doing it and the culprit will probably roll a low save eventually.

I believe they only get a +5 if you've heard of them. If witnesses are talking about him then you've heard of him. As you said, he's gonna fail that will save sooner or later.

[WeaselGuy]

From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm)

Scrying
Divination (Scrying)

Level: Brd 3, Clr 5, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M/DF, F
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: See text
Effect: Magical sensor
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You can see and hear some creature, which may be at any distance. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, the scrying attempt simply fails. The difficulty of the save depends on how well you know the subject and what sort of physical connection (if any) you have to that creature. Furthermore, if the subject is on another plane, it gets a +5 bonus on its Will save.



Knowledge
Will Save Modifier


None
+10


Secondhand (you have heard of the subject)
+5


Firsthand (you have met the subject)
+0


Familiar (you know the subject well)
-5




Connection
Will Save Modifier


Likeness or picture
-2


Possession or garment
-2


Body part, lock of hair, bit of nail, etc.
-10



If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and the subject’s immediate surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject). If the subject moves, the sensor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.

As with all divination (scrying) spells, the sensor has your full visual acuity, including any magical effects. In addition, the following spells have a 5% chance per caster level of operating through the sensor: detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, detect magic, and message.

If the save succeeds, you can’t attempt to scry on that subject again for at least 24 hours.

Arcane Material Component

The eye of a hawk, an eagle, or a roc, plus nitric acid, copper, and zinc.

Wizard, Sorcerer, or Bard Focus

A mirror of finely wrought and highly polished silver costing not less than 1,000 gp. The mirror must be at least 2 feet by 4 feet.

Cleric Focus

A holy water font costing not less than 100 gp.

Druid Focus

A natural pool of water.

[(Un)Inspired]

From the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm)

Scrying
Divination (Scrying)

Level: Brd 3, Clr 5, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M/DF, F
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: See text
Effect: Magical sensor
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You can see and hear some creature, which may be at any distance. If the subject succeeds on a Will save, the scrying attempt simply fails. The difficulty of the save depends on how well you know the subject and what sort of physical connection (if any) you have to that creature. Furthermore, if the subject is on another plane, it gets a +5 bonus on its Will save.



Knowledge
Will Save Modifier


None
+10


Secondhand (you have heard of the subject)
+5


Firsthand (you have met the subject)
+0


Familiar (you know the subject well)
-5




Connection
Will Save Modifier


Likeness or picture
-2


Possession or garment
-2


Body part, lock of hair, bit of nail, etc.
-10



If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and the subject’s immediate surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject). If the subject moves, the sensor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.

As with all divination (scrying) spells, the sensor has your full visual acuity, including any magical effects. In addition, the following spells have a 5% chance per caster level of operating through the sensor: detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, detect magic, and message.

If the save succeeds, you can’t attempt to scry on that subject again for at least 24 hours.

Arcane Material Component

The eye of a hawk, an eagle, or a roc, plus nitric acid, copper, and zinc.

Wizard, Sorcerer, or Bard Focus

A mirror of finely wrought and highly polished silver costing not less than 1,000 gp. The mirror must be at least 2 feet by 4 feet.

Cleric Focus

A holy water font costing not less than 100 gp.

Druid Focus

A natural pool of water.


Yay, I was right!

[ahenobarbi]

I believe they only get a +5 if you've heard of them. If witnesses are talking about him then you've heard of him. As you said, he's gonna fail that will save sooner or later.


Unless they have a method of avoiding failure on 1.

Circle Dance would be a good method to locate the blaster (if they are on the same plane). You would need witnesses to cast the spell. Easiest way to do this would be to craft single-use items. Which is easiest to do as Artificer 8.

Or cast Commune / Contact Other Plane to learn if they'll attempt this again if so learn location and time of next attempt and preempt them then (again easiest as an Artificer).

EDIT: I forgot to explain why I included second plan. First one has many failure modes (DM not allowing custom items, suspect being able to teleport after I locate them, being far enough to make triangulation useles,...). When the second plan doesn't work I still have Commune /COP which gives me a good chance to locate the blaster (unless they are Vecna-blooded or Mindblank blocks my divinations).

[Sam K]

I don't think being told about "A person wearing all black that possibly appeared in the sky and may or may not be associated with the fireballs" actually counts as second hand information. Considering the amount of bad guys wearing black and using bad tactics (blasting), you might end up scrying on a thousand different people.

Although being realistic, what the playground would ACTUALLY do is find the guy, then explain to him how fireballs are suboptimal and help him pick more optimal spells for terrorizing people. And we'd probably argue over what alignment his terrorizing was.

[georgie_leech]

Although being realistic, what the playground would ACTUALLY do is find the guy, then explain to him how fireballs are suboptimal and help him pick more optimal spells for terrorizing people. And we'd probably argue over what alignment his terrorizing was.

I kinda want to sig that.

[WeaselGuy]

I kinda want to sig that.

bwahahaha... so spot on accurate too... "Look, I can see the value in wanting a fireball that looks cool, but really what you should do is switch to being a Whisper Gnome Illusionist, and go into Shadow Adept and then into Shadowcraft Mage, then cast Shadow Evocation Fireballs..."

[A_S]

bwahahaha... so spot on accurate too... "Look, I can see the value in wanting a fireball that looks cool, but really what you should do is switch to being a Whisper Gnome Illusionist, and go into Shadow Adept and then into Shadowcraft Mage, then cast Shadow Evocation Fireballs..."
Nah, you gotta go with Wings of Flurry for the much higher damage cap and better damage type, and then use Spell Thematics to get that good ol' fireball look.

[Sam K]

I kinda want to sig that.

You are most welcome to (not that you were asking for my permission or anything :smallamused:)

I can actually imagine a bunch of playground regulars sitting in a fortress, monitoring events like the one the OP describede, and launching a quick-response optimization team when when the bad guy shows himself. When the bad guy tries to teleport out, he ends up in a conference room where Tippy is looking over his build and Red Fel is drawing a chart showing how he could increase terror inflicted by 128% by using the same amount of spell slots he's using now.

Half reality TV show, half intervention, all optimized!

[Larrx]

You are most welcome to (not that you were asking for my permission or anything :smallamused:)

I can actually imagine a bunch of playground regulars sitting in a fortress, monitoring events like the one the OP describede, and launching a quick-response optimization team when when the bad guy shows himself. When the bad guy tries to teleport out, he ends up in a conference room where Tippy is looking over his build and Red Fel is drawing a chart showing how he could increase terror inflicted by 128% by using the same amount of spell slots he's using now.

Half reality TV show, half intervention, all optimized!

I would totally watch that.

[atemu1234]

1. Play a kobold psion.
2. You know the rest.

[Hiro Quester]

.
Although being realistic, what the playground would ACTUALLY do is find the guy, then explain to him how fireballs are suboptimal and help him pick more optimal spells for terrorizing people. And we'd probably argue over what alignment his terrorizing was.

Sam K wins this thread.

[WeaselGuy]

I would totally watch that.

Tonight at 8e/7c, our new hit reality series, "Intervention, Optimized"! See such controversial topics as Travel Devotion versus Spirit Lion Totem, Psion versus Wizard, and finally, an interview with the all powerful Pun-Pun, with guest commentary by Madness McTarrasquekiller! All coming up tonight, after "Mythbusters"!

Because, you know, it would totally be on Discovery Channel

[Svata]

"See, how you destroy a city is using snowcasting flash frost fell drain Locate City. Not with Fireballs. Don't you know anything?"

[Chronos]

OK, first off, the OP seems inconsistent:

A spellcaster of some sort appears in the sky one day, and takes 6 rounds and casts a bunch of fireballs into a major city.
How do we know this, when all any witness saw was a mysterious figure, not the fireballs?

But anyway, to investigate this, I'd start by making Gather Information checks about the victims, to try to find one who was known for being friendly, cooperative, and observant (in the process, I'd also try to find some connection between the victims, in case they weren't just random targets of opportunity, but that's a just-in-case). Then, I'd cast Speak with Dead on that victim. That should give me a much better description of the perp, as well as possibly some information on his MO. Repeat for as many other victims as I have spell slots available, to corroborate the information and fill in details.

I'd also contact any wizard's guilds, academies, etc. on the continent, and ask them if any of their members have recently become more reclusive than usual, or malcontent for some reason, or the like. Then I'd toss in some more Gather Information checks in the city, asking about people matching the caster's rough description who have disappeared recently, or around whom strange things have been happening lately, or possibly if someone matching that description has a relationship (possibly one recently gone sour) with anyone in the city.

I realize that I'm using abilities from two different classes here (Speak with Dead is a cleric-only spell, and they don't have Gather Information as a class skill). If we're allowed a party, make it a bard and a cleric. If it has to be a single character, then it's a cloistered cleric with a one-level dip in something with Gather Information. Take the dip on a later level, so we can dump all that level's skill points into Gather Information, and cut down on the number of cross-class ranks needed.

[Sam K]

Tonight at 8e/7c, our new hit reality series, "Intervention, Optimized"! See such controversial topics as Travel Devotion versus Spirit Lion Totem, Psion versus Wizard, and finally, an interview with the all powerful Pun-Pun, with guest commentary by Madness McTarrasquekiller! All coming up tonight, after "Mythbusters"!

Because, you know, it would totally be on Discovery Channel

Are they allowed to have shows that's not about building cars? Maybe warforged counts?

I was actually thinking more along the lines of "Pimp my ride" or "Queer eye...": "Tonight, our crack team of evil optimization experts meet their toughest challenge yet: a BBEG who just can't get it together!"


"Look, our BBEG is really trying to challenge us, but he's just not figuring it out. He has a MAD build, using TWF and power attacking with finesse weapons. I could solo him with the rest of the party sitting the fight out. We've even tried spending our WBL on thematic items and picking 'RP appropriate' spells from core only, but he's still not able to put up a fight, and it's getting embarassing for everyone involved. The guy needs help!"


"Last week, my boss tried to execute me to intimidate one of his captains who wasn't performing. You know, standard 'This is what happends to those who disapoint me' BBEG villany? He missed! With every attack of his full-action iterative! I wasn't even wearing armor, he had just stacked up too many to-hit penalties! I felt so bad for him...

I don't think he realizes how bad it has gotten, he hasn't even attempted to waste a few of us on a meaningless suicide mission just to prove how little our lives mean to him. Someone has to help set him straight!"


"When I tried to divine what magic items he was using, you know what I found out? He has a +6 offhand weapon! He only has basic two weapon fighting, so it's one attack on an iterative. His main weapon is a masterwork, so he has a overpriced offhand and a mundane mainhand that's not even an exotic material. And he gets his flight from potions."


"Look, I just don't see what the big deal is! When I full-attack I can make five attacks. You get it? FIVE! Most people my level can only make 4! And look, everyone is expecting the main weapon to be the big damage dealer, right? So that's why I have the +6 dagger, see! I stab with the +6 dagger and just the enchantment bonus is MORE DAMAGE THAN A DAGGER CAN NORMALLY DO! And the hit bonus helps when I'm power attacking! This is an awesome fighter build, I just had some bad luck with my rolls recently!

"Can the team help this aspiring overlord get back on track? Find out at 8!"

[EyethatBinds]

I would start by assuming the person flying was an illusion, then begin hunting down and killing the wizards at the local school. Once the GM gets tired of 1st level wizard fights I'll start asking them questions.

[LooseCannoneer]

Although being realistic, what the playground would ACTUALLY do is find the guy, then explain to him how fireballs are suboptimal and help him pick more optimal spells for terrorizing people. And we'd probably argue over what alignment his terrorizing was.

1) May I sig this?

2) Bard 8. Max Diplomacy and Perform. Spam Perform checks until you attract the attention of an extraplanar being, then Diplomancer them into finding the guy. Then go to the guy and Diplomancer him into not doing it any more.

[Sam K]

1) May I sig this?

2) Bard 8. Max Diplomacy and Perform. Spam Perform checks until you attract the attention of an extraplanar being, then Diplomancer them into finding the guy. Then go to the guy and Diplomancer him into not doing it any more.

1) Yes.

2) Bonus points if you do this with Perform: slapstick comedy. You have attracted the attention of Giggles the Clown!

[LooseCannoneer]

Giggles the Clown: Arch-Diety of Comedy!

My new 20th level Bard.

[Mystral]

I might be the outlier here for not pulling some spells as a first option, but the dude must have some kind of motive, so my character would start investigating who this could have been. Check the local historians, mage guild, taverns for rumors. Try to find out if he targetet specific people or places, or if he appeared at a location with some history.

Basically, knowledge checks and social checks. Perhaps some bardic knowledge?

[Orderic]

Fireballs? Why would he use Fireballs? If he wants to burn the town, he should wait two levels and throw blistering radiance. Sure, it isn't as much damage at once, but most people have neither the hp nor the fire resistane to survive it. And its radius is 250% that of fireball.

Now, if you are unwilling to wait two levels (or maybe one), there are some other options to terrorize a city we could use. Personally, I would use a good old fashioned Fell Drain, followed by flying away, until the wights can no longer reach me. Sure, it's not as personal as evocation, but has the potential to be far more damaging to the economy, morale and population.

Edit: And if you DO want Evoaction, it still doesn't have to be fireballs. In fact, I think you can have a Blistering Radiance look like a Fireball. I'm not sure where the passage is, but somewhere in the PHB or DMG it says that you can have a unique appearance for your spells.

[Red Fel]

Half reality TV show, half intervention, all optimized!

This? This isn't a slice of brilliance. This is the whole freaking pie. (Admittedly, my specialization is more in thematics than spell mechanics, but I always appreciate the vote of confidence.)

We need to have a "Pimp My BBEG" thread now. Or a series of them. You know, DMs present villain concepts, and the Playground chips in with how to make the villain more mechanically sound, more thematically intimidating, better backstory, sample dialogue and descriptions, updated motivation... The works.

This is a thing that has to happen.

And Sam K should have a cookie. Sam? Go out and get a cookie. You've earned it.

[Urpriest]

If you can get to the scene within a minute, a Psion with Trace Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/traceTeleport.htm) is a good first step. Similarly, getting there within a few minutes could let you use Detect Magic to pick up on any lingering auras, and their schools.

[Gwachitallemall]

This? This isn't a slice of brilliance. This is the whole freaking pie. (Admittedly, my specialization is more in thematics than spell mechanics, but I always appreciate the vote of confidence.)

We need to have a "Pimp My BBEG" thread now. Or a series of them. You know, DMs present villain concepts, and the Playground chips in with how to make the villain more mechanically sound, more thematically intimidating, better backstory, sample dialogue and descriptions, updated motivation... The works.

This is a thing that has to happen.

And Sam K should have a cookie. Sam? Go out and get a cookie. You've earned it.

Do you think we could make a challenge thread like the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge thread, would that work? I could throw some sample villains together, and the playground could make several villains with a few caveats that have to stick, like must be true to this concept.

[(Un)Inspired]

Do you think we could make a challenge thread like the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge thread, would that work? I could throw some sample villains together, and the playground could make several villains with a few caveats that have to stick, like must be true to this concept.

I've actually got a villain that I've been fiddling around with that I'm about to start a thread for now. I does sound fun to have a competition for it though.

[Gwachitallemall]

I've actually got a villain that I've been fiddling around with that I'm about to start a thread for now. I does sound fun to have a competition for it though.

If we can get enough interest, I'll make a competition thread soon.

[Chronos]

Quoth Mystral:

I might be the outlier here for not pulling some spells as a first option, but the dude must have some kind of motive, so my character would start investigating who this could have been. Check the local historians, mage guild, taverns for rumors. Try to find out if he targetet specific people or places, or if he appeared at a location with some history.

Basically, knowledge checks and social checks. Perhaps some bardic knowledge?
Aside from the Speak with Dead (which is really just a special case of interviewing the witnesses), that's mostly what I suggested.

[LooseCannoneer]

I'm in. I've got a really nice villain in the works.

[Gwachitallemall]

Okay. Let me get some ideas together. Don't want to derail this thread any longer.

[(Un)Inspired]

If we can get enough interest, I'll make a competition thread soon.

I just posted my thread but I'll drop it and move my guy to your competition if you want to start something up.

[Sam K]

This? This isn't a slice of brilliance. This is the whole freaking pie. (Admittedly, my specialization is more in thematics than spell mechanics, but I always appreciate the vote of confidence.)

We need to have a "Pimp My BBEG" thread now. Or a series of them. You know, DMs present villain concepts, and the Playground chips in with how to make the villain more mechanically sound, more thematically intimidating, better backstory, sample dialogue and descriptions, updated motivation... The works.

This is a thing that has to happen.

And Sam K should have a cookie. Sam? Go out and get a cookie. You've earned it.

Well, that awesome-pie is going in my sig! Now, excuse me while I haz cookiez!

[EyethatBinds]

I suppose checking the area the caster was floating in would be helpful as well, if it was recent enough to get a read. If there is transmutation and conjuration(teleport) that would give a good indication of power level and abilities. If illusion (which I suspect) it would hint that the caster was elsewhere. Then I'd try to get a line of sight location on the ground and try to figure out what rogue had stolen a scroll of silent image and wand of fireballs.

[Elricaltovilla]

I would start using diplomacy checks to convice the survivors of the attacks to donate gold to a fund dedicated to finding the identity of the culprit. Playing on the fear against magic users this attack is likely to cause, I'd start spreading around a little bit of the wealth I'd gathered to shift the political system against wizards, sorcerers, clerics and druids, by pointing out that they have spells which should have allowed them to predict this sort of event occurring (augur, scrying, commune, etc.) and to have prevented the attacks from harming anyone (Protection from energy, counterspelling, AMF, etc.).

With political and social pressure turned against casters, the good and lawful aligned casters will most likely either bow to the pressure or remove themselves from the kingdom. This will mean that most casters in the area are either evil, chaotic or both, and thus a threat to the stability and safety of the kingdom. I will begin training elite squads of mage hunters from among the greatest warriors of the kingdom (Disruptive spellbreaker fighters, Superstitious Barbarians, Harbingers, Stalkers and Mage Hunters from Path of War) who I will then send out in various purges and witch hunts, with the consent and backing of the kingdom of course. The last of the rebel mages will fall before my elite squads of specially trained warriors, and the kingdom will rejoice knowing they are finally safe from the threat of magic once and for all.

At the ceremony dedicated to celebrating our victory over the vile spellcasters, I will unleash my final trump card, revealing that the King (or Queen) has been a secret mage sympathizer all along. Public outcry will demand the monarch's head, and as a loyal servant of the people I will be honor bound to oblige them. Naturally, it would mean the end of the kingdom if there were no one to take the place of the now decapitated royal family, so with great reluctance I will step forward to serve as the new ruler of the kingdom.

And all of that for just the cost of a wand of fireball and a potion of fly. :smalltongue:

[Karl Aegis]

I would find out why so many people are trained enough in Spellcraft to identify a third level spell.

[Red Fel]

And all of that for just the cost of a wand of fireball and a potion of fly. :smalltongue:

... You're not vying for my throne, are you? :smallamused:

[Elricaltovilla]

... You're not vying for my throne, are you? :smallamused:

No I just want a guest spot on the Experts Panel for "Intervention, Optimized!"

[LooseCannoneer]

I would start using diplomacy checks to convice the survivors of the attacks to donate gold to a fund dedicated to finding the identity of the culprit. Playing on the fear against magic users this attack is likely to cause, I'd start spreading around a little bit of the wealth I'd gathered to shift the political system against wizards, sorcerers, clerics and druids, by pointing out that they have spells which should have allowed them to predict this sort of event occurring (augur, scrying, commune, etc.) and to have prevented the attacks from harming anyone (Protection from energy, counterspelling, AMF, etc.).

With political and social pressure turned against casters, the good and lawful aligned casters will most likely either bow to the pressure or remove themselves from the kingdom. This will mean that most casters in the area are either evil, chaotic or both, and thus a threat to the stability and safety of the kingdom. I will begin training elite squads of mage hunters from among the greatest warriors of the kingdom (Disruptive spellbreaker fighters, Superstitious Barbarians, Harbingers, Stalkers and Mage Hunters from Path of War) who I will then send out in various purges and witch hunts, with the consent and backing of the kingdom of course. The last of the rebel mages will fall before my elite squads of specially trained warriors, and the kingdom will rejoice knowing they are finally safe from the threat of magic once and for all.

At the ceremony dedicated to celebrating our victory over the vile spellcasters, I will unleash my final trump card, revealing that the King (or Queen) has been a secret mage sympathizer all along. Public outcry will demand the monarch's head, and as a loyal servant of the people I will be honor bound to oblige them. Naturally, it would mean the end of the kingdom if there were no one to take the place of the now decapitated royal family, so with great reluctance I will step forward to serve as the new ruler of the kingdom.

And all of that for just the cost of a wand of fireball and a potion of fly. :smalltongue:

That is brilliant. Truly brilliant.

[Elricaltovilla]

That is brilliant. Truly brilliant.

I'm glad you liked it. I had to Bind Red Fel to pull it off, but its not like I can really get more evil.

[Seclora]

If we're within about a week of the incident, Diplomance up a fund to have the victims Reincarnated/Raised as possible.

Regardless, find out who's investigating and convince them to pay me and my party to do so for them. Gather Information to locate witnesses, learn all possible details of the incident. Speak with Plant/Animal for additional witnesses. Reassess situation based on data now available. Probably Scry target or track down Wizard or Cleric with access to Divination, Locate Object, or Locate Creature in order to obtain location of 'target' for Scrying.
Gloves of Object Reading to inspect evidence from the scene or objects taken from 'target' if encountered.
Locate idiot shopkeeper who sold the Potion of Fly and Wand of Fireball.
Obtain arrest warrant for idiot shopkeeper. If yes, arrest and prosecute as accessory, offer plea bargain for identifying 'target'. If no, Charm/Intimidate shopkeeper into same. Arrange for hefty(10% or more) discount on future purchases or quiet death for shopkeeper.
Kill 'target', display head near gate as warning, set up enchantment to divert scrying attempts on city towards corpse as warning. Get paid, acquire XP.

Oh right, and somewhere in there pick someone who can satisfy the need and qualifications for a 'target'. If possible, this should be the culprit of the attack but if not any of my enemies will do.

[Elricaltovilla]

Locate idiot shopkeeper who sold the Potion of Fly and Wand of Fireball.


Right, because I wouldn't make sure that the shopkeep was quietly taken care of before executing my plan.

[Seclora]

Right, because I wouldn't make sure that the shopkeep was quietly taken care of before executing my plan.

Oh good, that removes the hassle of dealing with a warrant. I assume you've animated him to prevent Speak with Dead or Reincarnation?

[Elricaltovilla]

Oh good, that removes the hassle of dealing with a warrant. I assume you've animated him to prevent Speak with Dead or Reincarnation?

Dissolved the body in acid. Prevents anything short of True Resurrection or Wish. But I used a Thinaun blade to coup de grace him, so even those shouldn't work.

EDIT: In case you can't tell from my sig and my post. I don't do magic :smallamused:

[Red Fel]

EDIT: In case you can't tell from my sig and my post. I don't do magic :smallamused:

Feh, who needs magic? That's amateur hour. Anybody can train up their 9th-level spells, create a private demiplane, become an unkillable magical corpse and create an army of supernatural constructs to take over the world. Doing it with just your wits and a longsword? That takes talent. Doing it without the longsword?

That's when you have my attention.

[Elricaltovilla]

Feh, who needs magic? That's amateur hour. Anybody can train up their 9th-level spells, create a private demiplane, become an unkillable magical corpse and create an army of supernatural constructs to take over the world. Doing it with just your wits and a longsword? That takes talent. Doing it without the longsword?

That's when you have my attention.

Doing it without the longsword is pretty damn easy too. You remember my Steelfist Commando build don't you? 11 punches per round, on a charge.

[Honest Tiefling]

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of answers of recruiting the guy to make him into the perfect fall guy for later, or to show him how true villainy is done. Or even the answer of free bodies to loot and reanimate.

[Seclora]

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of answers of recruiting the guy to make him into the perfect fall guy for later, or to show him how true villainy is done. Or even the answer of free bodies to loot and reanimate.
And burn all the public good will and affection I could get by destroying this tool on a few animated corpses? No, at level 8 I'm still staging for control of the city, I need to a lot of surplus good will for what's going to happen later.
As for looting, either I got there in time to take everything, or I didn't and I'll be tracking down the people who did and interviewing them anyways. Obviously, I will need to collect all of the 'evidence' when I do.


Dissolved the body in acid. Prevents anything short of True Resurrection or Wish. But I used a Thinaun blade to coup de grace him, so even those shouldn't work.

EDIT: In case you can't tell from my sig and my post. I don't do magic :smallamused:
How are your acid suppliers and Thinaun mine-wholesalers? Even a trail of no-bodies is a trail, and even burning down the house wouldn't erase all the evidence. Note to self, establish monopoly on acid manufacture.

Personally, I'm actually rather fond of the charismatic Rogue. Magic is all well and good, but it inspires a certain degree of paranoia and detachment that I have no desire for. Why rule the world if you're already a nigh-immortal being of god like power? Luckily for them there are more mundane talents around to pick up the gap in society, or those material component supplies they all take for granted would go away very quickly.

[Xerlith]

Assuming I'm a 17th level wizard, I'd:
1. Scry the guy.
2. Observe the place.
3. Teleport through time to before he arrived
4. Dimensional Lock and/or Teleportation Trap him so he teleports to my dead-magic demiplane
5. Use my friend, Jimmy the LE Crusader to show him why fireballs are suboptimal
6. Unleash him with his brand-new Locate City Bomb.

[goto124]

That is brilliant. Truly brilliant.

That plan would take forever though. Unless your DM speeds things up, but then... uh...

[LooseCannoneer]

That plan would take forever though. Unless your DM speeds things up, but then... uh...

As a villain, you should be willing to play the long game. I've had villains spend 20 years setting up a massive web of mind-affecting spells, all set to go off at a specific date.

[Scorponok]

There is a bit of a discussion with the players in regards to the Scrying spell. It says you need a physical connection to the person being scryed on (assuming you don't have a name). Would a person they were responsible for turning into what is now a corpse be a physical connection?

[Bad Wolf]

Bluff your way through the roof that the person who cast the fireballs hit a jailhouse full of rebelling prisoners. They're a hero! They should get a reward for such bravery.

[Templarkommando]

Here's how my lawful evil character would react:

1.) Knowledge(local) on a list of characters capable of teleporting, issuing several fireballs, and then teleporting away(the list is bound to be fairly short), also someone capable of hiring someone to do this for them. Also, people with motive to want to commit this act.
2.) If I'm able to find out the actual culprit, go ahead and pursue him, kill him, and take his stuff.
3.) Frame someone on the list who holds power(an office, lots of money, or a personal vendetta) for committing the crime that I already solved, but is likely unwilling to perform the act.
4.) Let the peasants revolt or let the town guard take this person into custody.
5.) Try to insinuate myself into my patsy's former position on the grounds that I did such a good job of stopping it from happening ever again.

[Quild]

I would wait in another major city for the guy to appear there. Obviously would have or be a wizard or sorcerer with flight (or dispel magic) and Dimensional Anchor.

6 rounds is enough to be sure to get the guy even in a big town.


In case of several big towns that could be potential targets, I would chose the one prepared to pay the most for the protection that would be thus granted.

[Qwertystop]

I believe they only get a +5 if you've heard of them. If witnesses are talking about him then you've heard of him. As you said, he's gonna fail that will save sooner or later.

You can give them a -2 (so net +3) if you have something they own. If they broke anyone's possessions, get that person to announce a "you break it, you bought it" policy and put it on "Mysterious Person In Sky"'s tab. Now the ruined stuff is a possession of the person who blew it up.

This might actually be helpful as a citywide policy - anyone who destroys city property now owns the non-reusable remains (and probably owes the city for repairs). Either anyone wrecking the place makes sure to clean up after themselves, or the city now has lots of bits of paving-stone that can be used to scry on vandals.

[georgie_leech]

You can give them a -2 (so net +3) if you have something they own. If they broke anyone's possessions, get that person to announce a "you break it, you bought it" policy and put it on "Mysterious Person In Sky"'s tab. Now the ruined stuff is a possession of the person who blew it up.

This might actually be helpful as a citywide policy - anyone who destroys city property now owns the non-reusable remains (and probably owes the city for repairs). Either anyone wrecking the place makes sure to clean up after themselves, or the city now has lots of bits of paving-stone that can be used to scry on vandals.

I guess that might work in a RAW sort of way, but I recall the reasoning being that there's a connection between the item and owner if they have held it for a while, sort of like leaving an imprint or psychic impression. I know that if I was a DM and a player tried to say that "I hereby give this pebble to the BBEG so I can apply the -4 save penalty for having one of his possessions, I would frown at him. Like this. :smallannoyed:

[Threadnaught]

How would you dispose of the Wand?

It's Magical unless you use all 50 charges... Within 6 Rounds.
You can't carry it around, as you'd risk others learning of your use of Magic. You can't just leave it lying around somewhere, someone could find it and investigate. If you try to plant it on the King/Queen nice and early, you'd have to find the balance between well hidden enough for them not to find it and obvious enough that you can point it out without raising suspicion.

If I find the Wand, then I will Identify and begin Scrying.

[Elricaltovilla]

How would you dispose of the Wand?

It's Magical unless you use all 50 charges... Within 6 Rounds.
You can't carry it around, as you'd risk others learning of your use of Magic. You can't just leave it lying around somewhere, someone could find it and investigate. If you try to plant it on the King/Queen nice and early, you'd have to find the balance between well hidden enough for them not to find it and obvious enough that you can point it out without raising suspicion.

If I find the Wand, then I will Identify and begin Scrying.

Well obviously I'd sunder it. A broken wand is no longer magical, and its not like its got much in the way of HP or hardness. Once its broken its only so much kindling.

[Threadnaught]

Well obviously I'd sunder it. A broken wand is no longer magical, and its not like its got much in the way of HP or hardness. Once its broken its only so much kindling.

Damn, you're not making it easy.

Wizard, Cleric and Druid would go to ground and get out as fast as possible once the crackdown on Magic Items and practitioners began. Artificer and Dread Necro, would be in a better position to take advantage of the situation, Dread Necro would be on the scene to induct the corpses into the Thieves' Guild as enforcers, if the Thieves' Guild are able to appreciate his efforts. Artificer would hide Homunculi around the city and steal everything not nailed down to sell to the Thieves' Guild, if they're willing to work with him. He could even help out with a different Type of enforcer, if they supply him with Magic Items to boost his Craft Reserve.

[Elricaltovilla]

Damn, you're not making it easy.

Wizard, Cleric and Druid would go to ground and get out as fast as possible once the crackdown on Magic Items and practitioners began. Artificer and Dread Necro, would be in a better position to take advantage of the situation, Dread Necro would be on the scene to induct the corpses into the Thieves' Guild as enforcers, if the Thieves' Guild are able to appreciate his efforts. Artificer would hide Homunculi around the city and steal everything not nailed down to sell to the Thieves' Guild, if they're willing to work with him. He could even help out with a different Type of enforcer, if they supply him with Magic Items to boost his Craft Reserve.

Did you miss this part of my plan?



With political and social pressure turned against casters, the good and lawful aligned casters will most likely either bow to the pressure or remove themselves from the kingdom. This will mean that most casters in the area are either evil, chaotic or both, and thus a threat to the stability and safety of the kingdom.


I already accounted for casters going underground or fleeing. In fact its very important to my plan because it minimizes the number of casters I need to dispose of and maximizes their threat to the kingdom, encouraging them to give me more power.

Now about your stuff on Dread Necromancers, Artificers and the Thieves Guild... The original post didn't give any details about the area in which this incident was taking place, only that it was a town/village of presumably large enough size that 6 rounds worth of fireballs wouldn't be enough to destroy it. Since there was no specific mention of a Thieves Guild, I didn't account for that in my plan. But since you're moving the goalposts in that direction, permit me the opportunity to reply.


My first instinct would be to simply enact laws that severely punish anyone caught harboring a fugitive caster. This would probably work for most legitimate guilds and businesses, but since the Thieves Guild isn't legitimate, it would probably do very little to stop their activities.

Instead, I think I'd pull a Vetinari. Legitimize the Thieves Guild and the other illicit guilds, and grant them exclusive, highly lucrative contracts to help scout out, hunt down and interrogate casters, including the rights to keep magical items they find in the possession of citizens or magic users they capture. This has the side benefit of causing crime against "true citizens" to drop significantly, since the criminal guilds will be more focused on casters and their allies and patsies instead of good innocent townsfolk.

It may take some convincing of the public, but its important that they remember that all of us suffered under the tyranny and terror of casters, and that the Thieves Guild understands the danger that they present, and have decided to set aside their criminal ways in order to aid us in purging the vile magicks from our beautiful homeland.


------------------------------------------

As a side note, a lot of people have been posting solutions that don't fit with the requirements set by Scorponok. Specifically this:



Assuming that you can make a character no higher than level 8, using 3.5 core rules, with the Complete series, Book of 9 Swords, and Miniatures Handbook as sources, how would you go finding out who was responsible for this atrocity?


Although, I'm equally guilty of not following the rules :smallredface:

[Threadnaught]

The original post didn't give any details about the area in which this incident was taking place, only that it was a town/village of presumably large enough size that 6 rounds worth of fireballs wouldn't be enough to destroy it.

Actually, he said major city, so it can be assumed that the settlement has more than 5000 residents.


A spellcaster of some sort appears in the sky one day, and takes 6 rounds and casts a bunch of fireballs into a major city.

Bolded for emphasis, it's a major city, so it is far more likely to have all groups together competing for a piece of the action.


Since there was no specific mention of a Thieves Guild, I didn't account for that in my plan. But since you're moving the goalposts in that direction, permit me the opportunity to reply.

First of all, I'm making the assumption that the Thieves' Guild would want to work with casters, knowing how they're more likely to go down for harbouring fugitives against Uther's regime, than they ever were for theft of property, this isn't exactly the safest course of action. For all you know, the Thieves' Guild could hand over the Artificer/Dread Necro anyway. It's possible for dealings to go either way, but as you've pointed out, ECS and HoH weren't mentioned in the OP. I made the mistake of considering Artificer as a possibility because I default to Eberron.



My first instinct would be to simply enact laws that severely punish anyone caught harboring a fugitive caster. This would probably work for most legitimate guilds and businesses, but since the Thieves Guild isn't legitimate, it would probably do very little to stop their activities.

Instead, I think I'd pull a Vetinari. Legitimize the Thieves Guild and the other illicit guilds, and grant them exclusive, highly lucrative contracts to help scout out, hunt down and interrogate casters, including the rights to keep magical items they find in the possession of citizens or magic users they capture. This has the side benefit of causing crime against "true citizens" to drop significantly, since the criminal guilds will be more focused on casters and their allies and patsies instead of good innocent townsfolk.

It may take some convincing of the public, but its important that they remember that all of us suffered under the tyranny and terror of casters, and that the Thieves Guild understands the danger that they present, and have decided to set aside their criminal ways in order to aid us in purging the vile magicks from our beautiful homeland.


That's evil! :smalleek:
You're Evil!
I can't beat you without proving you right.

Hmm, if you do manage to legitimize the Thieves' Guild, how far do your contracts allow them to travel?
And would an accused Caster receive a trial, or are they allowed to grab any beggar off the street, dress them in robes and give them any old broken stick?

[Elricaltovilla]

Actually, he said major city, so it can be assumed that the settlement has more than 5000 residents.



Bolded for emphasis, it's a major city, so it is far more likely to have all groups together competing for a piece of the action.

Fair enough. I must have missed that, although I don't think it changes much about what I said.




First of all, I'm making the assumption that the Thieves' Guild would want to work with casters, knowing how they're more likely to go down for harbouring fugitives against Uther's regime, than they ever were for theft of property, this isn't exactly the safest course of action. For all you know, the Thieves' Guild could hand over the Artificer/Dread Necro anyway. It's possible for dealings to go either way, but as you've pointed out, ECS and HoH weren't mentioned in the OP. I made the mistake of considering Artificer as a possibility because I default to Eberron.

Setting wasn't specified, as I noted before, so I can't really speak to anything setting specific. Its entirely possible that they may choose to harbor casters anyway, but that's a risk they're going to have to take, especially since their contracts will be shared with the Assassin's Guild, the Bounty Hunter's Guild and other "legitimate" governmental agencies (and here I'm making an assumption that if there's a Thieves Guild, there's also other guilds of ill repute I can recruit). If they care at all about their new status, the infighting from these groups should serve to keep them mostly in check against each other. It doesn't totally alleviate the possibility of them harboring casters, but it will serve to keep any one group from becoming too powerful.



That's evil! :smalleek:
You're Evil!
I can't beat you without proving you right.

Yes, I am. The end goal isn't necessarily the removal of all magic users from the kingdom, its to take over the kingdom. Leaving a few dangerous magic users around isn't actually a negative for me, as they will only serve to emphasize why my actions were so necessary.



Hmm, if you do manage to legitimize the Thieves' Guild, how far do your contracts allow them to travel?
And would an accused Caster receive a trial, or are they allowed to grab any beggar off the street, dress them in robes and give them any old broken stick?

Well, considering I'm EVIL... as far as they could reasonably get away with without pissing of a different allied group. The borders of my country seem like a good place to stop. I do want to respect the sovereignty of other nations (for now).

Of course casters would receive a trial. I can't make any promises about the outcome of the trial though, that would be interfering with the justice system :smallamused:

[Jormengand]

You're really limiting our sources, aren't ya? I wanted to show everyone up by finding and taking him with a first-level truenamer.

Oh well.

I am a first-level commoner. I make my living by crafting infinite clubs out of thin air and selling the results as firewood. After amassing a few million copper pieces, I buy an item of at-will divination (usable only by commoners with ranks in craft, to cut down the cost) and an item of continuous burning hands (again, usable only by commoners with ranks in craft). I then use the item of at-will divination to ask "Where will the guy who threw fireballs at everyone be in three hours?" If I don't get a response, I ask "Where will the guy who threw fireballs at everyone be in three hours and one minute?" Continue until I get a response.

Find him, walk up to him, and pull out the item of continuous burning hands, causing him to take infinite d4s of fire damage.

Leave quietly.

If that doesn't fly:

I am a first-level sorcerer. Each day, I get 75 GP (if I have high enough CHA, which I do) from selling all my spells. While, to be sure, it's hard to find people willing to buy spells with Ericaltovilla stigmatising spellcasters, I usually get all of my spells sold to someone willing to pay for a few mendings or an hour's worth of mage armour. That said, I also keep a morningstar handy so that no-one gets any bright ideas about trying to kill me, plus I make a point of being actually helpful, and not destructive.

Three weeks later, I go to one of those wizards powerful enough to resist this social stigma - one of 17th level - and ask him to cast me a wish. Despite the fairly colossal XP cost of doing so, he agrees to cast me a wish for 1530 gold pieces. This wish, of course, is for an item of infinite wishes (CL several million wishes, incidentally).

I use this item to discern the location of the strange mage who almost hit me with a fireball, and then duplicate the effects of almost every abjuration and transmutation (and even some conjurations) that you can put on a guy, on myself, before suddenly a huge freaking dragon smashes through his window.

Wait, you thought that dragon was me? Oh no, I just PaOed a summoned creature. I'm sitting here being immune to nearly everything, thanks a bunch. And by "Here" I mean "On another plane, laughing."

And then I take over the city for the hell of it.

[Elricaltovilla]

You're really limiting our sources, aren't ya? I wanted to show everyone up by finding and taking him with a first-level truenamer.



Oh well.

I am a first-level commoner. I make my living by crafting infinite clubs out of thin air and selling the results as firewood. After amassing a few million copper pieces, I buy an item of at-will divination (usable only by commoners with ranks in craft, to cut down the cost) and an item of continuous burning hands (again, usable only by commoners with ranks in craft). I then use the item of at-will divination to ask "Where will the guy who threw fireballs at everyone be in three hours?" If I don't get a response, I ask "Where will the guy who threw fireballs at everyone be in three hours and one minute?" Continue until I get a response.

Find him, walk up to him, and pull out the item of continuous burning hands, causing him to take infinite d4s of fire damage.

Leave quietly.

A few million copper? So a few thousand gold pieces (1,000,000/100= 10,000 GP) I'm not super up on the eccentricities of the crafting system, but I feel like you'd need a lot of time and a lot more money to purchase your chosen equipment, more than the average human lifespan for sure. And by that point a continuous item of mind blank and a ring of energy resistance would pretty well cover any issues your challenge might present.


If that doesn't fly:

I am a first-level sorcerer. Each day, I get 75 GP (if I have high enough CHA, which I do) from selling all my spells. While, to be sure, it's hard to find people willing to buy spells with Ericaltovilla stigmatising spellcasters, I usually get all of my spells sold to someone willing to pay for a few mendings or an hour's worth of mage armour. That said, I also keep a morningstar handy so that no-one gets any bright ideas about trying to kill me, plus I make a point of being actually helpful, and not destructive.

Option 1: The rewards offered for turning in spellcasters acting in violation of the law should be enough to incentivise someone to turn you in for the reward, especially since the thieves guild and other illegal guilds are now working with me (per Threadnaught's challenge). Assuming I haven't heard of you, or don't see much use for you, you'd be summarily executed for use of illegal magic.

Option 2: I offer you a job. Decidedly more lucrative than 75 GP per day, and with the opportunity for advancement and protection that you can't really get anywhere else. Of course, you'd have to leave the country, but importing magic items from trusted trade partners isn't at all illegal. Plus, you'd have a comfortable life in the city far from the dangers of a vehemently anti-magic society.


Three weeks later, I go to one of those wizards powerful enough to resist this social stigma - one of 17th level - and ask him to cast me a wish. Despite the fairly colossal XP cost of doing so, he agrees to cast me a wish for 1530 gold pieces. This wish, of course, is for an item of infinite wishes (CL several million wishes, incidentally).

And how will you convince this 17th level mage to cast a wish spell so insanely outside of the parameters of a safe wish at level 1? Your diplomacy bonus would be something like... +10? I don't know, in Pathfinder at least, you'd probably have at most a +17 (+5 CHA, +1 rank, +3 Class Skill, +3 familiar, +3 skill focus).

Actually, how would you even contact him? Shouldn't this hypothetical 17th level wizard be on his own impregnable demiplane fortress enjoying the benefits of his Vecna-blooded feat?


I use this item to discern the location of the strange mage who almost hit me with a fireball, and then duplicate the effects of almost every abjuration and transmutation (and even some conjurations) that you can put on a guy, on myself, before suddenly a huge freaking dragon smashes through his window.

I'm not a mage though. I'm specifically not a caster of any sort, so attempting to find "the mage" that attacked you wouldn't work.

Additionally, the worst thing you can do to a dragon is send it in doors, where it can't fly, it can't move freely, and its size is a massive disadvantage against anything smaller and more mobile than it. I have no reason to fight the dragon, so even if this happens before I can build up my forces, there's nothing stopping me from just fleeing through my secret underground tunnel (or out a window) to avoid being killed until the spell runs out.


Wait, you thought that dragon was me? Oh no, I just PaOed a summoned creature. I'm sitting here being immune to nearly everything, thanks a bunch. And by "Here" I mean "On another plane, laughing."

And at this point, you've left the country, so my goal is accomplished.


And then I take over the city for the hell of it.

Isn't being evil fun?

[Jormengand]

And how will you convince this 17th level mage to cast a wish spell so insanely outside of the parameters of a safe wish at level 1?

Excuse me?

" A wish can produce any one of the following effects.

Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
Duplicate any other spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 7th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.
Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.
Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.
Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.
Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.
Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
Remove injuries and afflictions. A single wish can aid one creature per caster level, and all subjects are cured of the same kind of affliction. For example, you could heal all the damage you and your companions have taken, or remove all poison effects from everyone in the party, but not do both with the same wish. A wish can never restore the experience point loss from casting a spell or the level or Constitution loss from being raised from the dead.
Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes, one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from losing an experience level.
Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.
Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent’s successful save, a foe’s successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend’s failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.) "

Emphasis mine. There is no limit on the maximum price of a magic item. And the Goods and Services section states that I can buy this casting of wish for no less than 1530 gold pieces. Of course, I could be - what, third level? And then I could just go out and buy it on day one, either use divination to continually bug whoever the god of knowledge until he tells me where the person who almost fireballed me in the face is, or just discern your location, and then send in... okay, not dragons, uhm, how's about... uh, I know, how about I just use it to mindrape+love's pain until you die? Or, dammit, sources, uh, let's say that I CL lots disintegrate the entire building you're in, and the ground below, and then, hells, what level are you? Will Power Word: Kill do? It's ninth level, so I'll need to wish up an item of it, but whatever. Failing which, irresistible dance, repeatedly, and send something to go and eat you. Several somethings to go and eat you. Whatever.

[Chronos]

Yes, it's possible, but at an insanely high XP cost. How do you convince the wizard to pay that insane XP cost? Heck, how do you even enable him to pay that XP cost? The cost to create an item of infinite Wishes would be so high that you wouldn't even have enough XP to pay for it until far epic levels.

[Jormengand]

Yes, it's possible, but at an insanely high XP cost. How do you convince the wizard to pay that insane XP cost? Heck, how do you even enable him to pay that XP cost? The cost to create an item of infinite Wishes would be so high that you wouldn't even have enough XP to pay for it until far epic levels.

*Sigh*.

You know, the easier way of doing this is just to get him to wish me up a Chaotic Evil (Face it, I'm probably Chaotic Evil at this point) candle of invocation, and let an efreet's XP-component-less wish SLA take care of it.

[Elricaltovilla]

*Sigh*.

You know, the easier way of doing this is just to get him to wish me up a Chaotic Evil (Face it, I'm probably Chaotic Evil at this point) candle of invocation, and let an efreet's XP-component-less wish SLA take care of it.

At that point why not just go straight Pun-Pun? Fact is, I can't really compete with nested or NI wishes without doing the same thing.

[Jormengand]

At that point why not just go straight Pun-Pun? Fact is, I can't really compete with nested or NI wishes without doing the same thing.

Well, the OP did specify "How would GitP players handle this?"

I mean, Tippy's solution would probably be similar, only with more ice assassins.

[Elricaltovilla]

Well, the OP did specify "How would GitP players handle this?"

I mean, Tippy's solution would probably be similar, only with more ice assassins.

True, but I'm not OP. So if you really want to pick on me, maybe I should make my own thread? :smalltongue:

[Jormengand]

True, but I'm not OP. So if you really want to pick on me, maybe I should make my own thread? :smalltongue:

Heh. Well, if you like I guess. :smalltongue:

[Elricaltovilla]

Heh. Well, if you like I guess. :smalltongue:

I want to, I just can't think of a decent thread title.

[dascarletm]

I want to, I just can't think of a decent thread title.

Of Wands and Wizards

[Hecuba]

Interesting political power plays aside, most of the answers to this can probably be generalized as:

Iterative applications of divination (or Clairsentience powers or related SLAs as appropriate).

Scrying is likely the most straightforward, but almost such ability that that can provide an answer to an chosen question can be shoehorned into working given enough patience (ex. binary search algorithm with Commune).

The answer to the question isn't a mystery: rather, there are a while class of answers that would have varying levels of appropriateness based on things like how much obfuscation your DM has worked into the character's actions and how banal you're willing to make your character's use of reality warping magic (because commune algorithms are really, really banal).

[NichG]

The guy shows up, is not directly observed to cast any fireballs, but 'fireballs happen'. So I find out who is spreading the rumor with the additional elaboration that the guy cast the fireballs.

Additionally, if this guy was present to observe events rather than cause them, that means there's a secondary cause for the fireballs. Probably closer to ground. So I go to the locations where the fireballs 'landed' and see if there's residual evidence of triggers at those locations. For example, is the blast pattern consistent with the fireball coming down from above. Is there even evidence that the fireball was magical rather than, say, alchemical? For that matter, are the parameters of the damaged area consistent with a particular source of 'explodey fire' - if its a spell I'd expect a somewhat consistent radius from site to site, and if that radius is 5ft, 10ft, or 20ft it tells me something about the methods the caster used.

What were the targets? Randomly chosen or was there a connection between them? Is the scatter of fireballs consistent with a cone originating from the caster's reported initial position (if you fling a bunch of objects randomly 'downwards' and 'in front of you', that makes a kind of squashed trapezoidal pattern when it hits ground with a higher density of targets near you and fading off as you go further away)?

Timeline is also important. When is the earliest report of a fireball landing, versus when is the earliest report of seeing the guy floating there? This may be hard to pin down precisely through witness statements, but fireballs landing/exploding should be a big loud thing so hopefully witnesses can at least report whether they say the guy show up before or after the first explosion they heard.

There's no sense in going after the person or people involved until I have some idea about the purpose behind the attack. I could end up chasing some wizard spectator halfway around the world when its actually the local thieves' guild taking out some people who failed to pay protection money and using the robed guy as a decoy. For that matter, if it is the black robed guy its important to know whether he's a Lv20 caster flinging around Meteor Storms or a Lv9 caster flinging around Fireball or a Lv5 rogue with a Necklace of Fireballs and a friend who has Fly and Invisibility.

[Elricaltovilla]

Interesting political power plays aside, most of the answers to this can probably be generalized as:

Iterative applications of divination (or Clairsentience powers or related SLAs as appropriate).

Scrying is likely the most straightforward, but almost such ability that that can provide an answer to an chosen question can be shoehorned into working given enough patience (ex. binary search algorithm with Commune).

The answer to the question isn't a mystery: rather, there are a while class of answers that would have varying levels of appropriateness based on things like how much obfuscation your DM has worked into the character's actions and how banal you're willing to make your character's use of reality warping magic (because commune algorithms are really, really banal).

Yeah, at least as far as mechanics go it just comes down to brute forcing a series of failed saves. Much better as a roleplay exercise or a campaign seed. I should really get that written up to be honest... I might actually be able to sell the idea. DIBS!

[Flickerdart]

With political and social pressure turned against casters, the good and lawful aligned casters will most likely either bow to the pressure or remove themselves from the kingdom. This will mean that most casters in the area are either evil, chaotic or both, and thus a threat to the stability and safety of the kingdom. I will begin training elite squads of mage hunters...
...and then the chaotic and evil wizards teleport in and reduce you and your training ground to rubble before you have so much as a single pupil, then loot the treasury and run away giggling. There used to be good and lawful casters who'd have stopped them but, well, you chased them off.

[dascarletm]

Yeah, at least as far as mechanics go it just comes down to brute forcing a series of failed saves. Much better as a roleplay exercise or a campaign seed. I should really get that written up to be honest... I might actually be able to sell the idea. DIBS!

I may have already written a campaign involving this as the opening........ :smallamused:

[lbuttitta]

You can give them a -2 (so net +3) if you have something they own. If they broke anyone's possessions, get that person to announce a "you break it, you bought it" policy and put it on "Mysterious Person In Sky"'s tab. Now the ruined stuff is a possession of the person who blew it up.

This might actually be helpful as a citywide policy - anyone who destroys city property now owns the non-reusable remains (and probably owes the city for repairs). Either anyone wrecking the place makes sure to clean up after themselves, or the city now has lots of bits of paving-stone that can be used to scry on vandals.
Alternatively, get a piece of paper and write on it, "I hereby give this paper to the mysterious person in the sky who threw some fireballs around in the city". You then have an object they own, so -2 to their save.

[Inevitability]

Alternatively, get a piece of paper and write on it, "I hereby give this paper to the mysterious person in the sky who threw some fireballs around in the city". You then have an object they own, so -2 to their save.

I see you read HPatN20.

[Svata]

N-n-necromancy detected!