Please help me understand Attacks of Opportunity and related things.

[Othniel]

Hey all, I'm looking at a potential Come and Get Me build for a Barbarian, and I think I need some help understanding how certain abilities, feats, etc. work together. Please let me know what I'm right or wrong on.

I understand the basics. Moving out of a threatening square, making a distracting action, etc. - basically, anything on the list on this page. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Attacks-of-Opportunity)

Normally, I can make one AoO per round, and can't make them while flat-footed. Combat Reflexes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-reflexes-combat) gives me bonus AoOs per round equal to my Dex modifier. If I have, for example, 14 Dex (a +2 modifier), I can make up to 3 Attacks of Opportunity per round. This feat also allows me to make AoOs while flat-footed.

Even if I have Combat Reflexes, I can only make one AoO per opportunity. So, if I have 3 AoOs available per round, someone standing up from prone only allows me to attack him once with an AoO. He would need to do two other actions that each provoke an AoO for me to use up my other two allotted AoOs

Come and Get Me (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/come-and-get-me-ex) is what I'm having trouble with. Do I use this Rage Power instead of taking an action to attack (in which case, I only get to attack via AoO if someone takes a swing at me), or in addition to attacking (and other actions during my turn) because it is a Free Action? I think it's the latter of the two, but I am unsure.

Do feats or other abilities such as Power Attack (anything that effects attack/damage/etc) effect the attacks I can make as an AoO?

[Andreaz]

Come and Get Me (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo---rage-powers/come-and-get-me-ex) is what I'm having trouble with. Do I use this Rage Power instead of taking an action to attack (in which case, I only get to attack via AoO if someone takes a swing at me), or in addition to attacking (and other actions during my turn) because it is a Free Action? I think it's the latter of the two, but I am unsure.Well, let's read the rage power.
It says "while raging, as a free action..." This doesn't impede you from doing anything. As long as you are raging, you can spend a free action (you have as many free actions as you can reasonably imagine, and they can be done even in the middle of other actions of yours).

So yeah, you can attack at will, and "open up" in the middle of your attack routine, or before, or after, anything goes during your turn.
Do feats or other abilities such as Power Attack (anything that effects attack/damage/etc) effect the attacks I can make as an AoO?Usually they do. The key is looking at how they activate.

Power Attack, for example. You can only "activate" it when you're about to make an attack, and it lasts until your turn comes up again.

So suppose during a round you....
1) during your turn, attack twice
2) between your current turn and the next you perform 2 AoOs

You can start your power attack at the first attack, the second, or the first aoo, or even the second. ALL subsequent attacks are affected. So if you, for example, start PAing during your second attack, it'll also affect the AoOs.

[Othniel]

It's making a lot more sense now.

So...how about a hypothetical situation.

I'm raging, and have Come and Get Me and Combat Reflexes (at 14 dex, I get 2 extra AoOs per round). Let's say that I have initiative. I use my regular attacks to damage the enemy for x amount of damage. As a free action at the end of my turn, I'm leaving myself open to attack. It's now his turn. He starts to swing at me, and CaGM activates, giving me one free AoO. According to this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Combat-Maneuvers), I can use a combat maneuver as an AoO. So, I can attempt to trip my enemy (does HE then get an AoO here, assuming I don't have Improved Trip?*). If successful, he goes down and is now prone.

What happens now? I know it normally costs a move action to stand up from prone. If the enemy so chooses, can he use a move action to stand up (provoking another AoO from me), and then finish the attack I so rudely interrupted?

*If I don't have Improved Trip, and I use my 2nd AoO to trip my enemy, does his AoO against me count as an attack trigger to give me another AoO?

[Psyren]

It's making a lot more sense now.

So...how about a hypothetical situation.

I'm raging, and have Come and Get Me and Combat Reflexes (at 14 dex, I get 2 extra AoOs per round). Let's say that I have initiative. I use my regular attacks to damage the enemy for x amount of damage. As a free action at the end of my turn, I'm leaving myself open to attack. It's now his turn. He starts to swing at me, and CaGM activates, giving me one free AoO. According to this (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Combat-Maneuvers), I can use a combat maneuver as an AoO. So, I can attempt to trip my enemy (does HE then get an AoO here, assuming I don't have Improved Trip?*). If successful, he goes down and is now prone.

1) Yes, you can trip as your AoO. Note that not all combat maneuvers can be used this way, only the ones that take an attack action to execute. (So you could not grapple, for instance.)

2) Yes, if you do not have Improved Trip, your AoO will provoke an AoO from him. (Which he can then use to try and trip you, and so on until one of you runs out of AoOs for that round. Yes, this can get pretty silly.)



What happens now? I know it normally costs a move action to stand up from prone. If the enemy so chooses, can he use a move action to stand up (provoking another AoO from me), and then finish the attack I so rudely interrupted?

He can stand up, but generally he would not get to attack again, since he most likely used a standard action attempting the first swing. So he would have nothing left at that point but his Swift, and a 5-foot step.



*If I don't have Improved Trip, and I use my 2nd AoO to trip my enemy, does his AoO against me count as an attack trigger to give me another AoO?

Yes, but with 14 Dex that would be your last one for the round.

[Oddman80]

In your hypothetical, on your opponents turn, his first action is an attack action - which you interrupt by tripping him. Now he is prone on the ground after your AoO, and he can finish his Attack action against you (but at a -4 on the Attack roll for doing so while prone).

This attack from prone DOES NOT trigger another AoO from you as it is actually the SAME attack that triggered the first AoO.

At that point, if he has a high enough BAB, he can strike you again Turning his attack into a full attack (this second attack would trigger AoO#2 from you). Alternatively, he can stop at the one attack, and he would then still have his full move action and be able to either stand or crawl away 5 feet (both of which would trigger that AoO#2). Or he could just lay prone and not do anything after the first hit... Though this would be unlikely (at least in the first round) as typically characters only get 1 AoO per tound, and you already used yours. Characters typically Don't have any one single feat, so until he tries getting up, crawling away or hitting you a second time in the round-he would have no clue it carried the risk of getting clobbered again.

In all of these situations you still have only managed to use 2/3 AoO's. To really bring the pain, combine with a dip in maneuver master monk. That one level, in addition to helping you with your poor Will Save, will grant you Improved Unarmed Strike (1d8), Improved Trip, Stunning Fist and Flurry of Maneuvers (free trip at end of a full attack). Now, burn one feat on Vicious Stomp, and every time a creature falls prone adjacent to you, you get to curb stomp it using one of your many AoO's

So now, that guy starts out his turn on the ground, thinking, well at least I have a +4 against the "Come at Me, Bro" fellow to counteract my -4 from being prone. Which is quickly followed by "OW! OW! Getting wailed on from the ground is not a viable strategy!" ... Stands up - POW! "Standing up doesn't help either"
Now you just need Greater Trip to make that guy never need to think about fighting you again....

[Othniel]

To really bring the pain, combine with a dip in maneuver master monk..

Unfortunately, Barbarian/Monk doesn't work because of alignment issues, or so I have been led to understand.

Thanks for the input, folks. I think I understand things a lot better.

[Psyren]

In your hypothetical, on your opponents turn, his first action is an attack action - which you interrupt by tripping him. Now he is prone on the ground after your AoO, and he can finish his Attack action against you (but at a -4 on the Attack roll for doing so while prone).

This attack from prone DOES NOT trigger another AoO from you as it is actually the SAME attack that triggered the first AoO.

Remember too that in his hypothetical, he (the barbarian) does not have Improved Trip. So if he tries to use his Come At Me Bro AoO to trip his foe, he will in fact provoke an AoO from his victim, which in your flow of events would fall right between "you interrupt by tripping him" and "Now he is prone."

[Oddman80]

Unfortunately, Barbarian/Monk doesn't work because of alignment issues, or so I have been led to understand.

Fair enough - the build only works if you start with monk 1 and then into barbarian....

The monk has always been ill tempered and hot headed growing up - a constant struggle in his early training. However family honor was constantly being barbed into him through his father's lecturing, and so he completed the monk training as was expected. Now, out in the real world - beyond his sensei's stern gaze, and in the thick of TRUE BATTLE - the inner beast that has alway lit a fire in his soul is let loose. There are no rules in fights to the death, it is better to be the man walking away than the one bleeding out on the ground. He won't forget what he learned during those years of training - but if Shizuru can't forgive a little head stomping, maybe it's time to visit one of Yamatsumi's temples.

[MightyPirate]

Or you could be raised by Aasimars (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits/enlightened-warrior-aasimar--idyllkin).

Also let me just leave this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXaPnXxhMnU) here.

[Psyren]

Also let me just leave this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXaPnXxhMnU) here.

Ahh, classic.

They forgot the most major one though - getting up. That could have added a lot more slapstick to the video given all the falling down Brian was doing :smalltongue:

[Othniel]

Or you could be raised by Aasimars (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits/enlightened-warrior-aasimar--idyllkin).

Oooh. I like that. Now you have me thinking about Oddman80's idea.