A character with no real weaknesses?

[Reprimand]

I'm not talking like a straight spell caster or anything but a character that has the tools to get out of every situation which admittedly IS a fullcaster but still try to stray away from that line of thought.

My DM doesn't have multi-class penalties and we use factional base attack bonus

So I was thinking like rog4/wiz1/unseen seer10/abjurant champion 5. Only REAL weakness is no divine spells, therefore lack of healing and low hp. plenty of skill points 4 attacks per around plenty of spell casting,

If anyone else would post ideas for a character without weaknesses. Please don't post bard or factotum their already the obvious go to answer

[(Un)Inspired]

Bard and Factorum are not, to my mind, obvious answers. In fact, I don't believe either comes close to being without any real weaknesses.

The only thing I can conceive of that might fit your criteria would be a pun-pun... maybe?

Absolutes are hard to reach. I'm not sure how one could build for NO weaknesses.

[kellbyb]

StP Erudite would be a good candidate. As usual.

[Seharvepernfan]

Well, I designed this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16634330&postcount=19) guy to be a one-man party, basically, though his build is pretty complicated and he uses like 10 sourcebooks. His two "weaknesses" are that he can't quite heal himself (UMD, but it's expensive and he doesn't have many items for it), and he isn't a face (though voice of the dragon can maybe squeak him by). Also, he uses PF feat progression. However, if you drop a level of ruathar and give him another level of scout, you can drop the martial study/stance feats. Cleave and Telling Blow are just nice to have; they're not critical to the build.

[Reprimand]

Bard and Factorum are not, to my mind, obvious answers. In fact, I don't believe either comes close to being without any real weaknesses.

The only thing I can conceive of that might fit your criteria would be a pun-pun... maybe?

Absolutes are hard to reach. I'm not sure how one could build for NO weaknesses.

I mean like not being good at any one thing but not having any major weaknesses either.

I mean in my build I'm basically just abusing multi-class to cover most of my bases I'd probably throw on a belt of healing and buffs/potions and call it a day

It doesn't have to be invincible just so long as it can weather the storm!

[(Un)Inspired]

I mean like not being good at any one thing but not having any major weaknesses either.

Not being good at any one thing seems a lot like a weakness.

Bards and Factotum can easily be built to be exceptional at one thing, it's just that they don't stray into uselessness when the thing they've been built for fails to come up.

[Reprimand]

Not being good at any one thing seems a lot like a weakness?

I mean more like covering your bases.

also being good at everything (but not great) I'd say is a strength.

by the statement not being good at any one thing I mean your not putting all your eggs in one basket.

[Amphetryon]

If you're avoiding casting entirely, a Scout/Crusader/Bloodstorm Blade covers most areas OTHER than casting competently enough to not show real weaknesses. That "OTHER than" proviso is fairly glaring, though.

Binder/Wizard/Anima Mage is a caster option that can reasonably expect to have an answer for anything the DM might throw at you.

[Sam K]

When you say "no weakness", do you mean "able to fill every role"? As in being able to cast, skillmonkey and fight?

At any rate, how about human rogue 1/druid 19 with able learner and decent int? Should get you enough skillpoints to do some skill monkeying, you are capable of fighting without spending your entire wbl on weapons, and you're a full caster that can heal, summon and have some utility. Decent HP, has the important saves.

[Reprimand]

If you're avoiding casting entirely, a Scout/Crusader/Bloodstorm Blade covers most areas OTHER than casting competently enough to not show real weaknesses. That "OTHER than" proviso is fairly glaring, though.

Binder/Wizard/Anima Mage is a caster option that can reasonably expect to have an answer for anything the DM might throw at you.

I've never even heard of Bloodstorm Blade o.o

[(Un)Inspired]

I mean more like covering your bases.

also being good at everything (but not great) I'd say is a strength.

A strength compared to what?

Covering bases, to my mind, evokes the image of a batman wizard with a thought bottle who keeps up dozens of crafted contingent spells but I get the feeling that's not quite what you're looking for.

[Flickerdart]

Bards and factotums (and most T3 characters, at that) are absolutely not without weaknesses. What they do have is the ability to contribute in any situation, but having an answer, and having a good answer are not the same thing.

I would say that an Arcane Hierophant is probably as close as it comes to a well-rounded character that isn't pulling out Team Solars levels of shenanigans - he has access to both arcane and divine spells, and a slab of meat to take hits for him.

[Reprimand]

When you say "no weakness", do you mean "able to fill every role"? As in being able to cast, skillmonkey and fight?

At any rate, how about human rogue 1/druid 19 with able learner and decent int? Should get you enough skillpoints to do some skill monkeying, you are capable of fighting without spending your entire wbl on weapons, and you're a full caster that can heal, summon and have some utility. Decent HP, has the important saves.

Yeah that's basically what I meant.

I just wanted to get some ideas for what people do when they want to make a character like that. That's all.

Druid doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Mostly I just wanted this thread for brainstorming ideas more than anything.

@flickerdart sorry I wasn't wording that very well this is more what I wanted

@(Un)Inspired more like able to fill every role without necessarily being the best at them.

[RoboEmperor]

Not good at anything but not bad at anything? Cleric, Druid, or Bard. Prestige as you wish.
Good but not excellent at anything and not bad at anything? Cleric, Druid, or a Gish
Amazingly godlike at everything with absolutely no weakness and nothing he/she can't do from mid-level onwards? Wizard.

Clerics and Druids are tier 1, meaning their spells can end the campaign. They also can melee, and their spells can handle everything, including trap removal and such. They also can function without rest, just not as well as a fighter.

[Reprimand]

Not good at anything but not bad at anything? Cleric, Druid, or Bard. Prestige as you wish.
Good but not excellent at anything and not bad at anything? Cleric, Druid, or a Gish
Excellent at everything with absolutely no weakness and nothing he/she can't do from mid-level onwards? Wizard.

Probably the first or second option.

I lean towards gish when making characters but not nessicarily damage dealing type of a gish more like being able to solve most problems reasonably well

[(Un)Inspired]

@(Un)Inspired more like able to fill every role without necessarily being the best at them.

Fighter 20 with cross class ranks in UMD.

You can fill any roll and you're in no danger of being the best at anything.

Now we need a measuring stick for what it means to be "good" at a role.

[RoboEmperor]

Probably the first or second option.

I lean towards gish when making characters but not nessicarily damage dealing type of a gish more like being able to solve most problems reasonably well

When I make a character, I like to make a numbered list.

So what "problems" did you have in mind that needs solving?
Tanking?
Dealing Damage?
Battle Field Control?
Trap Removal?
Stealing?
Some specific goal? (i.e. crafting master, demon/devil master, etc.)
Talking to people? (diplomacy)
Fluff stuff?

Clerics and Druids fail when skill points are required, so if your character needs to solve problems that are not combat related (stealing, diplomacy, crafting, etc.) then you want to do that stuff then you're gonna have to go wizard-gish solely for the skill points.

If you're designing a gish, there are a LOT of options to choose from. My builds lose at most 1 spellcasting level, but don't really shine until level 10+, which is probably what you're not looking for.

Other people's builds have like level 7-8 spells at level 20, so that's gonna hurt, but can melee the entire game.

If you're dead set on your character being able to do rogue stuff, then I guess some sort of rogue-wizard prestige class combo can work. You're just gonna have to rely on your UMD skill for OOC spells, and scrolls of moment of prescience for the high skill checks.

[Flickerdart]

I'd also like to propose Incarnates and Binders as an option - while they are not useful for everything at any given time, they're a day away from having the skillset for any situation. With the online vestiges, Binders also have access to psionic abilities, giving them a little bit of spellcasting, and Incarnates get solid UMD bonuses for wand-fu action.

[Hazrond]

I'd also like to propose Incarnates and Binders as an option - while they are not useful for everything at any given time, they're a day away from having the skillset for any situation. With the online vestiges, Binders also have access to psionic abilities, giving them a little bit of spellcasting, and Incarnates get solid UMD bonuses for wand-fu action.

Binder is my favorite 3,5 class personally, i like the versatility of being able to pull up any skillset you need with just a little prepwork, i strongly reccomend it

[Reprimand]

When I make a character, I like to make a numbered list.

So what "problems" did you have in mind that needs solving?
Tanking?
Dealing Damage?
Battle Field Control?
Trap Removal?
Stealing?
Some specific goal? (i.e. crafting master, demon/devil master, etc.)
Talking to people? (diplomacy)
Fluff stuff?

Clerics and Druids fail when skill points are required, so if your character needs to solve problems that are not combat related (stealing, diplomacy, crafting, etc.) then you want to do that stuff then you're gonna have to go wizard-gish solely for the skill points.

If you're designing a gish, there are a LOT of options to choose from. My builds lose at most 1 spellcasting level, but don't really shine until level 10+, which is probably what you're not looking for.

Other people's builds have like level 7-8 spells at level 20, so that's gonna hurt, but can melee the entire game.

If you're dead set on your character being able to do rogue stuff, then I guess some sort of rogue-wizard prestige class combo can work. You're just gonna have to rely on your UMD skill for OOC spells, and scrolls of moment of prescience for the high skill checks.

Lets go with.

Minor Battle Field Control (web etc)\
Decent Crafting
Talking to people
Stealing
Stealth
Dealing Damage

[Chronos]

Pure druid is hard to top. Even wizards have weaknesses, even if they're just "can be weak if you don't optimize well" or "low stamina at first level". But druid is good under any set of circumstances: Bad at optimizing? The obvious, flavorful options for a druid are mostly pretty good. Low level? You've got something nearly equivalent to a fighter, as just one of your class features. Enemy misinformation led you to prepare exactly the wrong list of spells? You can do a lot worse than just spending all your slots on Summon Nature's Ally.

[Flickerdart]

But druid is good under any set of circumstances
It's definitely possible to make a druid that's unintentionally bad - an Eagle or other non-Riding Dog companion and filling your slots with heals and other similar spells are all very reasonable mistakes for a new player. Druids are definitely one of the most foolproof, but I don't think they're 100% there. That title would probably go to ToB where "give your dude a sword and pick whatever maneuvers" is a strategy that works pretty well, even if your power ceiling is dwarfed by a druid who knows what he's doing.

[Reprimand]

Pure druid is hard to top. Even wizards have weaknesses, even if they're just "can be weak if you don't optimize well" or "low stamina at first level". But druid is good under any set of circumstances: Bad at optimizing? The obvious, flavorful options for a druid are mostly pretty good. Low level? You've got something nearly equivalent to a fighter, as just one of your class features. Enemy misinformation led you to prepare exactly the wrong list of spells? You can do a lot worse than just spending all your slots on Summon Nature's Ally.

On the topic of druids can someone explain why the dire tortoise is so good?

[Chronos]

Eh, the most common animal companion choice (and the one used by the sample druid character in the books) is a wolf. Which is slightly inferior to the riding dog, but only slightly.

Reprimand, a dire tortoise has two things going for it. One is, of course, its sky-high natural armor, which is about what you'd expect from a tortoise, armor being rather the chelonians' schtick. The other is its ludicrous and never-explained extraordinary ability to always act during a surprise round, because obviously slow-moving living mountains are great at lightning-quick ambushes.

[icefractal]

Dire Tortoise has an ability (Ex Special Attack, so Wildshape gets it) that lets them always get a surprise round, no matter what. Always useful, and at high levels extremely useful.

Edit: For example, because Chronos was wildshaped into a Dire Tortoise, he got the surprise round and swordsaged this post. :smallwink:

[Reprimand]

That's super weird that a tortoise has that ability.

Uh the other thing is can anyone recommond a gish build that can do the following things:

Minor Battle Field Control (web etc)
Skill monkey
Dealing Damage

and if I where to say get a cohort what would fill in the blanks for this character

Maybe a beguiler or a cleric?

Something stealthy

[oxybe]

If we're allowing pathfinder a ninja 3/tattoed sorc 4/Arcane trickster X is pretty dang versatile, going ninja for 2 levels, then the four sorc levels then the last ninja before going into trickster.

Tattooed sorc gives you access to a tattoo familiar (one that can be hidden away on your body as a tattoo) and the magical tattoo feat that boosts the caster level of one school by +1. I enjoy conjuration for this, but it's your choice. If you can also pick pathfinder traits, Magical Knack allows you a +2 caster level for your sorc casting, as long as it doesn't raise your caster level beyond your HD. This gives you a caster level pretty much equal to your total class, but you don't get as many spells total for the full borkedness of full casters.

Early game you're effectively a rogue with the ability to go invisible for a few rounds at swift action speed, but lack trapfinding/dodging traits.

Once you start levelling sorceror you get access to touch range spells that you can sneak attack with, illusions and some battlefield control stuff. Sorc 4 grants you level 2 spells and Fiery Shuriken (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/spells/fieryShuriken.html), which is pound for pound a fantastic single-target, multi-hit, ranged touch attack spell once sneak attack is factored in, more so if your sorceror bloodline is something like orc or dragon, so you get extra damage per dice roll. As it's a low-level spell it can also use the cheaper metamagic rods. Worst case scenario, you can still use mundane weapons, though your BAB is kinda sucky you do get to be invisible when actually trying to hit people, so until you get to "everyone and their dog can see invis" levels, you should still be reliably hitting people.

Once you hit arcane trickster you start going at maximum shenanigans as you're the epitome of magical rogueishness, using your disable device and sleight of hand skills from 30 feet away, gaining more sneak attack damage, 2 good saves, the ability to simply make an attack/spell be a sneak attack or several rounds of greater invis at will.

for bonus points, go pathfinder kitsune with the realistic likeness and fox shape feats for the ability to shapeshift into specific humans you've seen before, as well as a tiny animal form.

So you get:

battlefield control
Silent Image is the godking of illusions. It's affected area is huge and can be used to confuse enemies if they fail their will save, where even something like "a smokescreen" can block their line of sight. Web, grease and the like are also available to help cover your escape routes or denying enemy movement in combat.

Decent crafting
You're a caster, so you can take crafting feats if you want to.

Talking to people
Sorcs use Cha as their main stat, Ninjas use Cha to get more ki points. You have access to the enchantment school.

Stealthing
Ninja vanish and stealth skill in early game, magical invisibility and stealth skill late. Kitsune shapeshifting and strait up magical disguises for out of combat. You can use illusions to hide your presence or acts (silent image a room or part of a room as if you're not there). If you've seen a person, you can be them with a standard action (move if you replace a racial trait and swift if you grab a feat) and you get disguise and bluff as skills. You can also blend with the local animals in fox form, as they can be found in many cities poking about human garbage for food. In short, if people can recognize you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. Most people aware of you should be thinking you're wearing a disguise on top of your disguise. Because you are. With a disguise underneath those. Lacking survival, being able to keep an eye on one person and following them around town as they do their thing, means you're likely rather happy to have perception as a class skill and familiar-granted alertness, so you should be able to keep up with almost anyone but another rogue or ninja, even if you have a +0 wisdom mod. Don't lose them though, because you can't really track anyone once you lose sight of them.

Stealing
You are a magical foxman ninja with minor telekinesis and illusion powers. I hope you can find some way to steal stuff.

Dealing damage
4x 1d8+2d6+3 elemental shurikens tossed at touch AC at level 7, changed to the element of you choice via a rod. gets more shurikens and sneak attack and static damage as you level. Instead of using a sword to cut people up, you're melting them with caustic palm thrusts and throwing flaming darts at their kidneys.

Note that pathfinder ninjas are a d8 HD and sorcerors/Arcane tricksters are d6 classes. If you go with Con as your 2nd or 3rd best ability score, you're likely to be capable of taking a solid blow or two, but you don't have the HP to survive a third. Use every trick you can to jump in and out of combat if forced into melee and use the rest of your spells to cause disarray. You can still have some pretty nice defenses though, thanks to stuff like mirror image, blur, displacement, etc... and traditional AC buffs like mage armor, mithril bucklers/shield spell, etc... Your fort save is likely to be crap though, so use with care.

Trap Handling
You get perception and disable device as class skills, and dexterity is likely to be your 2nd or 3rd best ability score, so nonmagical traps should be a cakewalk. Worst case scenario and you locate a magical trap, you can either have a summon or something like an unseen servant can be used to remotely detonate it from afar. A wand of the latter is pretty cheap at 750gp for 50 charges and even at caster level 1, the servant lasts and hour minimum and can exert enough force to drag 100lbs of material, so it should be capable of activating most traps with the party a safe distance away.

Do note that you will have a limited pool of skill points to choose your huge list from, so pick them wisely. ninja is an 8 points per level class, while sorc is a 2 point per level one. If you have a few points or decent stat to spare, drop them into Int for maximum versatility, otherwise you'll have to live with not having all your skills maxed out at all times if you want to be covering a somewhat broader scope.

So yeah. If you can use pathfinder stuff, it's pretty easy to make a "self sufficient" character that's actually pretty good at doing stuff, doubly so since UMD is a class skill for you too and you're a Charisma-based character so you can rather easily pickup scrolls and items for other classes if you really need them.

[Reprimand]

If we're allowing pathfinder a ninja 3/tattoed sorc 4/Arcane trickster X is pretty dang versatile, going ninja for 2 levels, then the four sorc levels then the last ninja before going into trickster.

Tattooed sorc gives you access to a tattoo familiar (one that can be hidden away on your body as a tattoo) and the magical tattoo feat that boosts the caster level of one school by +1. I enjoy conjuration for this, but it's your choice. If you can also pick pathfinder traits, Magical Knack allows you a +2 caster level for your sorc casting, as long as it doesn't raise your caster level beyond your HD. This gives you a caster level pretty much equal to your total class, but you don't get as many spells total for the full borkedness of full casters.

Early game you're effectively a rogue with the ability to go invisible for a few rounds at swift action speed, but lack trapfinding/dodging traits.

Once you start levelling sorceror you get access to touch range spells that you can sneak attack with, illusions and some battlefield control stuff. Sorc 4 grants you level 2 spells and Fiery Shuriken (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/spells/fieryShuriken.html), which is pound for pound a fantastic single-target, multi-hit, ranged touch attack spell once sneak attack is factored in, more so if your sorceror bloodline is something like orc or dragon, so you get extra damage per dice roll. As it's a low-level spell it can also use the cheaper metamagic rods. Worst case scenario, you can still use mundane weapons, though your BAB is kinda sucky you do get to be invisible when actually trying to hit people, so until you get to "everyone and their dog can see invis" levels, you should still be reliably hitting people.

Once you hit arcane trickster you start going at maximum shenanigans as you're the epitome of magical rogueishness, using your disable device and sleight of hand skills from 30 feet away, gaining more sneak attack damage, 2 good saves, the ability to simply make an attack/spell be a sneak attack or several rounds of greater invis at will.

for bonus points, go pathfinder kitsune with the realistic likeness and fox shape feats for the ability to shapeshift into specific humans you've seen before, as well as a tiny animal form.

So you get:

battlefield control
Silent Image is the godking of illusions. It's affected area is huge and can be used to confuse enemies if they fail their will save, where even something like "a smokescreen" can block their line of sight. Web, grease and the like are also available to help cover your escape routes or denying enemy movement in combat.

Decent crafting
You're a caster, so you can take crafting feats if you want to.

Talking to people
Sorcs use Cha as their main stat, Ninjas use Cha to get more ki points. You have access to the enchantment school.

Stealthing
Ninja vanish and stealth skill in early game, magical invisibility and stealth skill late. Kitsune shapeshifting and strait up magical disguises for out of combat. You can use illusions to hide your presence or acts (silent image a room or part of a room as if you're not there). If you've seen a person, you can be them with a standard action (move if you replace a racial trait and swift if you grab a feat) and you get disguise and bluff as skills. You can also blend with the local animals in fox form, as they can be found in many cities poking about human garbage for food. In short, if people can recognize you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. Most people aware of you should be thinking you're wearing a disguise on top of your disguise. Because you are. With a disguise underneath those. Lacking survival, being able to keep an eye on one person and following them around town as they do their thing, means you're likely rather happy to have perception as a class skill and familiar-granted alertness, so you should be able to keep up with almost anyone but another rogue or ninja, even if you have a +0 wisdom mod. Don't lose them though, because you can't really track anyone once you lose sight of them.

Stealing
You are a magical foxman ninja with minor telekinesis and illusion powers. I hope you can find some way to steal stuff.

Dealing damage
4x 1d8+2d6+3 elemental shurikens tossed at touch AC at level 7, changed to the element of you choice via a rod. gets more shurikens and sneak attack and static damage as you level. Instead of using a sword to cut people up, you're melting them with caustic palm thrusts and throwing flaming darts at their kidneys.

Note that pathfinder ninjas are a d8 HD and sorcerors/Arcane tricksters are d6 classes. If you go with Con as your 2nd or 3rd best ability score, you're likely to be capable of taking a solid blow or two, but you don't have the HP to survive a third. Use every trick you can to jump in and out of combat if forced into melee and use the rest of your spells to cause disarray. You can still have some pretty nice defenses though, thanks to stuff like mirror image, blur, displacement, etc... and traditional AC buffs like mage armor, mithril bucklers/shield spell, etc... Your fort save is likely to be crap though, so use with care.

Trap Handling
You get perception and disable device as class skills, and dexterity is likely to be your 2nd or 3rd best ability score, so nonmagical traps should be a cakewalk. Worst case scenario and you locate a magical trap, you can either have a summon or something like an unseen servant can be used to remotely detonate it from afar. A wand of the latter is pretty cheap at 750gp for 50 charges and even at caster level 1, the servant lasts and hour minimum and can exert enough force to drag 100lbs of material, so it should be capable of activating most traps with the party a safe distance away.

Do note that you will have a limited pool of skill points to choose your huge list from, so pick them wisely. ninja is an 8 points per level class, while sorc is a 2 point per level one. If you have a few points or decent stat to spare, drop them into Int for maximum versatility, otherwise you'll have to live with not having all your skills maxed out at all times if you want to be covering a somewhat broader scope.

So yeah. If you can use pathfinder stuff, it's pretty easy to make a "self sufficient" character that's actually pretty good at doing stuff, doubly so since UMD is a class skill for you too and you're a Charisma-based character so you can rather easily pickup scrolls and items for other classes if you really need them.

*boom* -my brain

I know this might put a huge damper on your great build but I've mentioned the party I'm playing is super... unique they don't really understand game mechanics and I tend to carry them like luggage through combat but I also don't want to do everything myself and make them feel bad for not contributing. I like to play similar to the god wizard with more rogue stuff setting people up for good flanks or buffing them or battle field control. etc. I make the enemy suck and everyone of us rock. and I clean up.

Although Thinking about it sorcerer might make a better option than wizard.

[Snowbluff]

I've never even heard of Bloodstorm Blade o.o

Dude, you've been here for 4 years. XD

It's a Tome of Battle Prestige class specializing in thrown weapons. It's pretty good.

I second Archeir or Anima mage.

[Reprimand]

Dude, you've been here for 4 years. XD

It's a Tome of Battle Prestige class specializing in thrown weapons. It's pretty good.

I second Archeir or Anima mage.

Ah sorry I tend to tune out once people start suggesting swordsage and a so on. I know it's not actually THAT broken but I dislike playing dragonball z when I'm trying to play D&D. I've looked at the book but it's not my think except for one build I found on how to make link from LoZ factotum/warblade/eternalblade

Most games I play in ironicly have a optimized wizards clerics and druids but Tob is "crossing the line" and it rubs off on me sometimes.

[Sam K]

That's super weird that a tortoise has that ability.

Uh the other thing is can anyone recommond a gish build that can do the following things:

Minor Battle Field Control (web etc)
Skill monkey
Dealing Damage

and if I where to say get a cohort what would fill in the blanks for this character

Maybe a beguiler or a cleric?

Something stealthy

I'll have to refer you back to my rogue 1/druid x. You can focus the druid on skills and summons (you still get some damage in melee from wild shape), and let your companion be the tank.

Druid just works.

[Troacctid]

Tome of Battle is the 3.5 version of the 4th edition style of D&D. Like it or hate it, 4e definitely did a ton to make combat more interesting and varied, especially for nonmagical classes; Tome of Battle was pretty much the live beta.

[drack]

I try to do this with most of my characters. You mean like if you have a fighter you give him a grappling hook for climbing, a bow with several types of arrows even if he doesn't have enough arrows to be an archer, a few cheep weapons and blankets to survive winter conditions just for a start? It really comes down to looking into all those minor little things and not min-maxing when it leaves a gaping weakness right?

[Reprimand]

I'll have to refer you back to my rogue 1/druid x. You can focus the druid on skills and summons (you still get some damage in melee from wild shape), and let your companion be the tank.

Druid just works.

Mostly I'm just brain storming right now, druid is on my list and I'm just cherrypicking ideas that work for me. I'm not ruling anything out. I'm still going to playtest each suggestion and see how it works out.

It's still completely possible I'll go with the swordsage build depending on how I like the flavor and how it works mechanically.

[Madhava]

Any interest in Ardent? I'd say it weathers storms fairly well, especially with freedom mantle.

Dimension hop & hustle make you mobile from square one. Fly & freedom of movement keep with the theme. Be a blaster, cc'er, or melee'er, hingent upon what other mantles you like. Go with full plate or inertial armor, whichever you prefer. Enjoy near-bottomless health with vigor, share pain, & a psycrystal. Crank up saves with defensive precognition.

The only stuff it's seldom much good at, is being a skillster, or a buffer-of-other-folks.

Optionally, you fit in any of the following onto an Ardent build: Swordsage 2, Rogue 1(+ able learner), Cloistered Cleric 1(+ divine feats), Mindbender 1, Psychic Warrior 1 or 2, and/or Erudite 1. Consider taking Sangehirn levels, if you like healing/defense. Or War Mind 5, if you really like to melee.

These are more full-caster-esque options... but Psion or Erudite can be more versatile. Lots of skill points by virtue of high int. Consider taking 10 levels of Archaic Initiate, for even more skillpoint-goodness. Also, consider feating for hidden talent/dimension hop at level 1. Melee's well if you opt for metamorphosis. Mindbender 1 is useful here also.

[Yael]

Barbarian is your answer, need info? Punch to get it. Need scouting? Break the things! Need healing? Kill everything and rest afterwards. Puzzle? Break it. Complicated math stuff? Rage and smash!*

* this post, blue means sarcasm.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

When is one good at things? See below;


Damage: 100 or higher reliable damage i.e. isn't easy to protect against or avoid.

AC: 50 or higher, 40 of it being touch.

Attack: +40 or higher.

Saves: +25 or higher.

Defenses: deathward, form-altering immunity, half damage or less from most attacks minimum.

Healing: 1000+ points of healing, recover from status effects or ab. damage or drain 8+/day.

Skills: +45 or higher to 3 primary skills, +35 or higher to at least 8 other useful skills.

Battlefield Control: create a useful control effect 8+/day. Variety in your control effects.

Mobility: must be able to get in any nonprotected location quickly 4/day. Must be able to move 100+ ft/round and attack at the same turn, while flying.

Allies: must be able to get 4 allies/day of CR equal to his.

[Snowbluff]

I should build an Arcane Archer build with those in mind. Hail of Stone targeted near the enemy ~8 times in one shot with CC MM on it could get a couple of those done.

[atemu1234]

I mean more like covering your bases.

also being good at everything (but not great) I'd say is a strength.

by the statement not being good at any one thing I mean your not putting all your eggs in one basket.

Well, that is true, but quite frankly, if we're looking to make a character with no weaknesses, look no further than a Wizard. Like, almost any wizard.

[Flickerdart]

Tome of Battle is the 3.5 version of the 4th edition style of D&D. Like it or hate it, 4e definitely did a ton to make combat more interesting and varied, especially for nonmagical classes; Tome of Battle was pretty much the live beta.
Another case of Super Prototype (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperPrototype), eh?

[Troacctid]

Another case of Super Prototype (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperPrototype), eh?

Not really. I think the at-will/encounter/daily system they came up with for 4e is better than the recharge system in ToB.