best archer build?

[Thrathgnar]

I've been looking around for this and haven't really found anything definitive. The question is this: what is the best class for archery? Ranger comes to mind immediately but is a bit underwhelming, and I know fighters are good. I was thinking rogue cause sneak attack looks amazing for sniping. Any thoughts?

[Kryx]

Hunter at level 5 has 2x: 2x(1d8 + 5 + Hunter's Mark (1d6)) + 1d8 (Colossus Slayer) = (4.5 + 5 + 3.5) + (4.5 + 5 + 3.5) + 4.5 = 13 + 13 + 4.5 = 30.5 damage. Both are are +10 so 75% chance to hit AC 16 so 22 DPR.

That's not underwhelming at all.

Add in hand crossbow and Crossbow Expert and it gets even higher.

[Madfellow]

I think most people will say either Fighter (if you want more attacks) or Rogue (if you want more damage per attack). I'd also say Ranger, myself, but if you don't want to you don't have to.

[Shadow]

That's not underwhelming at all.

This.
Everyone loves to knock Rangers because someone sometime didn't like the fact that levels 3 & 4 of Beast Master traded your only attack for that of the beast (which is arguably better anyway due to riders).
Consider something like a wolf, which has knockdown. If you wanted to use your action to give everyone after you advantage on their attack rolls, you would have to shove, which does no damage.
The wolf gets to do that and still does damage. His attack is better than yours is at that level. There is nothing for them to complain about.

But truth be told, Rangers are the stars of the table at low levels, and still work well at higher levels.
They are not underwhelming at all. They just got that wrap by some of the number crunchers because what happens on paper and what happens at the table are almost always two different things.
The game isn't played in a vacuum, and neither is your Ranger played on paper.

[Thrathgnar]

Thanks for the replies, I see how rangers are good now. Also this is for an NPC in a campaign I am DMing who is level 20, a robin hood figure who specializes in sniping

[Person_Man]

If by "best" you mean highest damage per round, it varies by level.

The general consensus is to get Archery Fighting Style (+2 to hit), Crossbow Expert (attack as bonus action), and Sharpshooter (+10 damage/-5 hit).

From there its mostly moderate variation by level and circumstance, with Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue being the top choices.

[Yuukale]

Best single-target bow= Rogue Assassin 9/Fighter Battlemaster 11

You have: 3 attacks with +2 archery from fighter, +5d6 sneak attack once per turn, auto-crit on the first round if you win initiative. Add in +10 damage /-5 to hit from Sharpshooter and those 3 attacks from Fighter will escalate quickly. Don't forget the Action Surge to Nova the strongest enemy.

Also, you may throw an occasional 1d10 Superiority Dice from a Battlemaster maneuver.

[Mandragola]

My experience is that a ranger has an advantage over a rogue, in that a ranger can attack anyone he wants to. A rogue can only get his sneak attacks on a target next to one of his allies, and that's actually a massive problem for a ranged damage dealer.

I've run games with both and I tend to prefer the ranger. Rogues do get bigger numbers, but when there's a caster behind a wall of zombies then a ranger with sharpshooter from level 1 will take him down pretty quickly. Archery fighting style, hunter's mark and colossus slayer add up to very consistent damage output, dealt to the highest priority target.

Then of course the ranger also has spells. That makes them pretty versatile.

I like rogues but I don't see them as great archers. They are raw damage dealers, not tactical damage dealers. A ranger, or a spell-sniper warlock, will kill the guy who needs killing first.

[The_Ditto]

I played a Fighter (Battlemaster) (archer) and was quite pleased.

- VERY accurate - I had the highest to-hit in the group, and was tagging enemies routinely on a natural 4.
- Respectable damage. I wasn't the highest damage output always, but every so often, I spit out a couple of maneuvers, and things died ... fast.
- I liked I had a good AC, since I had heavier armor available (have to weigh the options, though, since you don't get your Dex to the AC in heavier armor .. I settled for Breastplate, I believe, and was going to take the Med armor mastery feat or whatever i was ..)
- the maneuvers can provide some great combat options in certain situations. Used Goad nicely on a (not-so-smart white) dragon causing it to try to get to me over other party members. Sure I took some damage, but it allowed the other squishy members to get in some solid hits in relatively safety.

[Person_Man]

If you're going to multi-class as a Rogue/Fighter, then I'd say that Champion Fighter is sometimes superior to Battlemaster, depending on how often your party takes Short Rests. Improved Critical works fairly well with Sneak Attack, especially if you're making 3+ attacks per round (1 base, 1 or 2 from Extra Attack, Bonus Action from Crossbow Expert, and occasionally 1 opportunity attack).

[hymer]

My experience is that a ranger has an advantage over a rogue, in that a ranger can attack anyone he wants to. A rogue can only get his sneak attacks on a target next to one of his allies, and that's actually a massive problem for a ranged damage dealer.

The rogue should be using the bonus action to Stealth between shots, letting them get advantage on anyone who doesn't spot them. It isn't perfect, but many battles have this as an option. Creating the option may also be possible; more so depending on the table ruling of a halfling's hiding behind allies.

[DireSickFish]

I thought bad was in consideration for best archer due to lvl10 swift quiver? Or am I wrong on that front?

[Gwendol]

The ranger archer gets an upper hand vs clusters of enemies, which has often been overlooked/ignored in DPR calculations.

[Person_Man]

The ranger archer gets an upper hand vs clusters of enemies, which has often been overlooked/ignored in DPR calculations.

At low levels, definitely. But at level 11, a Fighter gets 3 base attack per round, plus a Bonus Action attack from Crossbow Expert, plus maybe some additional from his subclass Ranger 11 is getting 2 base attacks per round, plus a Bonus Action attack from Crossbow Expert, plus maybe an extra attack from Hoardbreaker, plus maybe some additional from his spells.



Separately, its worth noting that various spells like Swift Quiver requires a Bonus Action to use, and thus sometimes overlaps with Crossbow Expert.

[CrusaderJoe]

To bad we can't get an archery style that can do these things... Specifically 1 (fighter), 4 (monk), and 5 (no one).

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyPage=instantawesomelarsandersen-150126

And by archery build I mean the base abilities from the class, not any optional stuff like Multiclassing and feats.

If this guy can do it then we should be able to have a fantasy character who can blow him away.

[Shadow]

If this guy can do it then we should be able to have a fantasy character who can blow him away.

Yeah, we've all seen that by now, I'm sure.
That entire video is a terrible compilation of editing cuts and misinformation.
He can shoot fast. That's where his archery expertise ends. He's not accurate. He's not powerful. He knows nothing about archery at all, which is evidenced by the fact that nearly every single "historical fact" stated is flat out incorrect.

He's fast. That's it.

[Tarrab]

At low levels, definitely. But at level 11, a Fighter gets 3 base attack per round, plus a Bonus Action attack from Crossbow Expert, plus maybe some additional from his subclass Ranger 11 is getting 2 base attacks per round, plus a Bonus Action attack from Crossbow Expert, plus maybe an extra attack from Hoardbreaker, plus maybe some additional from his spells.



Separately, its worth noting that various spells like Swift Quiver requires a Bonus Action to use, and thus sometimes overlaps with Crossbow Expert.

Ranger Hunter 11 has Volley, buddy. Read it and you´ll get why he said it in the first place.

[CrusaderJoe]

Ranger Hunter 11 has Volley, buddy. Read it and you´ll get why he said it in the first place.

Volley needs all targets be within 10' of a point. You will need your enemies to be nice and stay within 10' of the same point each time you want to use it.

As battle goes on this attack weakens.

Fighter 11 gives you 3 attacks +BA attack. These 4 attacks can target whichever creature you want. Focus fire is nice. Plus this ability doesn't weaken as battle goes on.

In all honesty if you can set up volley it is nice but the reliability and versatility of the Fighter gives them the edge I think.

[Tarrab]

Volley needs all targets be within 10' of a point. You will need your enemies to be nice and stay within 10' of the same point each time you want to use it.

As battle goes on this attack weakens.

Fighter 11 gives you 3 attacks +BA attack. These 4 attacks can target whichever creature you want. Focus fire is nice. Plus this ability doesn't weaken as battle goes on.

In all honesty if you can set up volley it is nice but the reliability and versatility of the Fighter gives them the edge I think.

Tell that to a Ranger Hunter 11/ Rogue Assassin 3 with Volley from sneak ;)

[Yuukale]

Am I mistaken or you can't sneak attack more than 1x, therefore making it a bit irrelevant in Volley damage?

[Gwendol]

To hit every target in a 10' radius circle comes up often enough for it to be relevant. In practical play the ranger will be king of archery.

[Longcat]

Viable Archery builds include (but are not limited to):
-Hunter Ranger with Longbow, Colossus Slayer and Sharpshooter: Really solid and viable to play from L1+. Flattens a bit after L11 since Ranger no longer gains any outstanding features after that, but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.
-Any Rogue with a Light Crossbow: Not the best, but very reliable Sneak Attack, and best of all, low investment. Assassin has the highest damage, Arcane Trickster has Shield (and later Haste) and Thief has the very strong Use Object as a Bonus Action. If no good wands drop, consider getting the Healer feat and using Healing Kits as a Bonus Action.
-Fighter1/Valor Bard10+ with Longbow and Sharpshooter: The key is grabbing the Ranger's Swift Quiver with Bard, allowing 4 attacks each round on a caster chassis. It's not the best damage wise, but close to the top, and brings more to the table than just fighting. Consider getting a second level of Fighter for Action Surge. Before Bard 6, the Heavy Crossbow is viable as well.
-Assassin3/Fighter5+ with Longbow/Hand Crossbow(+Crossbow Expertise) and Sharpshooter: The combination of Assassinate and Action Surge allows for a strong opening nova. Other than that, you are still a Fighter with 2+ attacks who gets to add some Sneak Attack.
-Pure Fighter with Longbow/Hand Crossbow(+Crossbow Expertise) Sharpshooter: Viable, especially after L5.
-Pure Warlock: Why do I mention Warlocks when they are in fact casters? Because they play very much like an Archer. In fact, at early levels, your playstyle will be similar to that of the Ranger: Cast Hunter's Mark/Hex on a target and then shoot/Eldritch Blast them.

[Giant2005]

To hit every target in a 10' radius circle comes up often enough for it to be relevant. In practical play the ranger will be king of archery.

That really depends on what parameters the crowning is based on.
For example, even if there were 6 enemies in that 10' radius for the Ranger to hit and the Fighter only had enough attacks to hit 4, although it doesn't sound like it, the Fighter could still be considered to be more effective.
If the enemies could withstand 4 hits before dying, the Fighter would kill one each turn and be attacked a total of 15 times (attacked by 5 then 4, then 3, then 2, then 1).
The Ranger however would be hitting all 6 at once and would be attacked a total of 18 times (attacked by 6, then 6, then 6) before felling the entire encounter.
The Ranger would be dealing a lot more average damage than the Fighter but the Fighter is the more effective combatant. Then again, cramming more enemies into that 10' radius would ensure Ranger superiority.

[Longcat]

Enemies of human level intelligence or higher will probably spread out after witnessing the Ranger using Volley, so unless the fight takes places in extremely confined spaces, the usefulness of that ability will be limited.

[Gwendol]

That is likely not possible in many circumstances due to many factors: available space, available actions, tactical considerations (maybe the ranger buddy is a guisarme wielding sentinel), etc.

[Longcat]

That depends entirely on the DM and the adventure in question. The majority of time, the PCs are the attackers, and the DM is free to design his adventures with class abilities in mind.

[Gwendol]

Not necessarily. The smart adventuring group will force battles on their conditions whenever possible, using whatever means to get there, be it laying traps, kiting, etc. Even if the effect of using volley can be applied only once before the enemy disperse, that is a win for the adventurers every time the enemy has abilities that rely on them being close together.

[Person_Man]

Ranger Hunter 11 has Volley, buddy. Read it and you´ll get why he said it in the first place.

In the theater of the mind (the default play style for 5E) I've never seen an area of effect attack (usually a spell like Fireball) hit more then 4 enemies outside of a few rare circumstances. And that's with a larger blast radius. TotM just doesn't lend itself to careful targeting, and in general encourages the DM to use a smaller number of enemies.

With the 10 ft radius limitation on Volley, I imagine that most rounds it won't be useful to you (because even if it covers 2 enemies, that's no different from just attacking them separately with you base and Extra Attack), and when it is useful to you, you're hitting 3 or 4 enemies, and maybe getting an extra 1 or 2 more attacks from Hoardbreaker.

So yeah, its nifty that when you're fighting a large number of enemies (probably mooks) that are clumped together, you can wipe them out quickly. But your damage against single enemies will be significantly lower, and in general my most difficult battles are against boss enemies, not mooks.

Of course, your mileage may vary according to your DM. If you use miniatures, spend most of your time in confined spaces, and your DM is fond of using lots of enemies, then yeah, Ranger is great for killing them.

[Gwendol]

Even so, the ranger can do that more or less indefinitely, while the wizard, and to a lesser extent the sorcerer has a hard limit. The trick is as I stated above to work together in order to create circumstances that are advantageous to the team. Furthemore, the hunter ranger gets to attack more often already with horde breaker, or by using hail of thorns (limited use), at early levels.

[MadBear]

I'll just point out that in addition to volley the ranger can also drop spells like: Lightning arrow, or hail of thorns on his volley. I don't know why people think that volley would be used isolated from these other decent AOE spells. This plus horde breaker allow the ranger to hit multiple opponents with a good amount of damage (volley attack + lightning arrow), and then still make a single target hit (horde breaker). I'm not saying that the ranger is always the better ranged character, but he fills a niche that the fighter can't to the same degree.

[Myzz]

via RAW and clarification via tweets, the best Archer would be a Hand Xbow Archer utilizing the bonus action from XBow expert... and added dmg from sharpshooter... and using poisoned bolts... More attacks with flat adders to each attack > 1 bump up in dmg dice. Which means aquiring the most attacks possible > other builds. (unless you can significantly increase the flat adders to dmg dice - like sneak attack)

Since Dex is primary stat, which you will want higher than 2, heavy armor and medium armors are really out (eventually), so going fighter first level is not that important.

I recommend the Variant Human (Xbow expert) with Urchin background.

Rogue as first level (grab poison kit proficiency due to doubled up thieves tools).

Level 1 rogue does 2 attacks (1 attack on action, and 1 bonus attack from Xbow expert) that each do 1d6+3(dex)+1d4 (min poison)+ 1d6 (sneak attack)
=4d6+2d4+6 if to same target (avg = 16), but doing so burns your bonus action. at level 1!

As you level can go into fighter to get Archery Fighting Style +2 Hit, get action surge, and an extra attack. I would also eventually get to level 3 rogue for assassinate.

Surprise round for Rog 3 / Fighter 5 = 4 attacks (2 attacks + Bonus + Action Surge) all auto crit for max dmg, should be using 3d6 poison (giant poisonous snake venom) by this point.

each attack = 1d6 +3(dex) +10(sharpshooter) +2d6 (sneak attack) +3d6 (poison save for half) (all at max) = 40 on successfull save or 49 on failed save and they have poisoned condition... remember thats to 4 different targets, or a total of 160 to one as a minimum... each attack is made at +0, with advantage, so they all likely hit.

to combat this being the only real viable single target archer build I put in a Longbow Expert Feat.
Being within 5 ft of a hostile creature does not impose disadvantage on ranged attack rolls.
You can use your bonus action to make a melee weapon attack with an arrow that does 1d6 dmg that you do not apply your ability modifier to.
You can 'draw' or string your longbow as a reaction. Pulling any number of arrows from a quiver does not require any type of action.

[Person_Man]

Note that poison can be expensive, not all DMs allow a lot of down time to make poison, its an Action to apply (unless you're a Thief Rogue, then its Bonus Action), only lasts for 1 minute, you can only coat 3 pieces of ammunition with 1 dose of poison, and some DMs rule that poison is wiped off/used up after the first successful hit with a melee weapon. So its usefulness is highly variable depending on the DM.

[Myzz]

Note that poison can be expensive, not all DMs allow a lot of down time to make poison, its an Action to apply (unless you're a Thief Rogue, then its Bonus Action), only lasts for 1 minute, you can only coat 3 pieces of ammunition with 1 dose of poison, and some DMs rule that poison is wiped off/used up after the first successful hit with a melee weapon. So its usefulness is highly variable depending on the DM.

Giant Poisonous snake = CR 1/4. Any druid can shape change into it =) And possible applies to Wiz Familiar too, dependent on DM. So access to 3d6 poison fairly easy: any druid, any wiz or sorc, anyone with Ritual Caster Feat, anyone who took find familiar as their magic initiate feat, anyone with decent handle animal skill...

Even better if Pact of the Chain lock, who has an imp (3d6 dmg as well but DC 11 on save vice the 10 for snake)...

Anyone that can summon monster with poison/venom...

none of which requires spending money outside of glass vials and stoppers. BUT is up to your DM letting you do these things. IF DM does not want you using poisons then your not going to regardless of cost and other tangibles...

[MeeposFire]

Viable Archery builds include (but are not limited to):
-Hunter Ranger with Longbow, Colossus Slayer and Sharpshooter: Really solid and viable to play from L1+. Flattens a bit after L11 since Ranger no longer gains any outstanding features after that, but it's not as bad as some people make it out to be.
-Any Rogue with a Light Crossbow: Not the best, but very reliable Sneak Attack, and best of all, low investment. Assassin has the highest damage, Arcane Trickster has Shield (and later Haste) and Thief has the very strong Use Object as a Bonus Action. If no good wands drop, consider getting the Healer feat and using Healing Kits as a Bonus Action.
-Fighter1/Valor Bard10+ with Longbow and Sharpshooter: The key is grabbing the Ranger's Swift Quiver with Bard, allowing 4 attacks each round on a caster chassis. It's not the best damage wise, but close to the top, and brings more to the table than just fighting. Consider getting a second level of Fighter for Action Surge. Before Bard 6, the Heavy Crossbow is viable as well.
-Assassin3/Fighter5+ with Longbow/Hand Crossbow(+Crossbow Expertise) and Sharpshooter: The combination of Assassinate and Action Surge allows for a strong opening nova. Other than that, you are still a Fighter with 2+ attacks who gets to add some Sneak Attack.
-Pure Fighter with Longbow/Hand Crossbow(+Crossbow Expertise) Sharpshooter: Viable, especially after L5.
-Pure Warlock: Why do I mention Warlocks when they are in fact casters? Because they play very much like an Archer. In fact, at early levels, your playstyle will be similar to that of the Ranger: Cast Hunter's Mark/Hex on a target and then shoot/Eldritch Blast them.

Do note by RAW (and apparently RAI for the designers sadly for the thief) that thieves cannot use wands and the like with a bonus action because they specifically call that out as not working in the DMG (which is the only reason it does not work as it did work PHB only).

The healing kit works though.

[JohnDaBarr]

With all released 5ed material in mind I would say that the best archer build is an Assassin Rogue with an Antimatter Rifle. :smallamused:

Now, would or should a DM allow this is completely another matter. :smallbiggrin:

[mattyoclock]

If you are ever in a defensive position where the range can come into play, a battlemaster fighter with a longbow and sharpshooter is king. especially as you can use goading attack on the big boy from safety while your allies do their thing.