Dagger Fighter (3.5 Build Idea)

[Ralcos]

As said in the title, I want to make a build for a Dagger Fighter, using his daggers to either dual-wield OR throw.

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss284/eksmither/ShadowElfFighter-1.jpg

Limitations:

Point-Buy: 25 Points
Race: Human
Class: Can include multiclassing, but must be mostly comprised with the Fighter class.
Level: Build can be up to 20th level.
Books: N/A; Can include all books.


I do not intend this to be an argument thread about Fighters vs. ToB or anything of the sort, for I am only looking for minor optimization.


Okay, fire away with your ideas on how to make this a viable build!

[Denver]

If you're only cross-classing a little, I'd recommend a level or three of Rogue, to get some more skill points for Sleight of hand checks. Using only daggers means you might as well hide them everywhere on you, so you can never be truly disarmed. Plus, taking some Rogue would net you an extra d6 (or maybe two) of dice from Sneak Attack damage, when flanking in melee - which I can assume will probably happen as a Fighter.

It might also be fun to pursue the ranged element of a dagger a bit more. Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Point Blank shot - all just for the fun of throwing daggers. If your Dex is reasonably high, might as well take Weapon Finesse to get to apply Dex to your ranged attack rolls, as well. Edit: Throwing a Dagger makes it a ranged attack roll, adding Dex anyway. That was a stupid suggestion.

Seriously, sounds like it could be a fun concept.

[Hiro Quester]

Dual wielding kukris (basically a curved dagger, but with a higher critical hit range: that guy in the image is wielding them) for a crit-fisher build can be fun. Take TWF line of feats. And improved crit. Pay for a weapon enhancement that applies of critical hits (enervating, vorpal).

A few levels of warblade (for tiger claw manoevers) might help. So can rogue levels.

[Karl Aegis]

Are you sure you want to use that image as your example? It looks like the guy just dipped some leather armor in blue paint, picked up some random objects and posed. He couldn't even afford new pants after he ripped them and his butt-flap is a little tattered. If anything, he looks like a first level Thug Fighter that got the crap kicked out him by an Incarnate.

[Ralcos]

Are you sure you want to use that image as your example? It looks like the guy just dipped some leather armor in blue paint, picked up some random objects and posed. He couldn't even afford new pants after he ripped them and his butt-flap is a little tattered. If anything, he looks like a first level Thug Fighter that got the crap kicked out him by an Incarnate.

lol
That's an interesting description. Imagonnachangethis.

[FocusWolf413]

Those aren't any kukris that I've seen.
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/132249781/11_AEOF_Gurkha_Afghan_Kukri.jpg That isn't relevant anymore.

Kukris are a good idea.

There's a lot of good base class dips. Three levels of rogue will boost your reflex saves, get you evasion, and give you decent sneak attack. Three levels of Swashbuckler nets you Weapon Finesse and Int to Damage. Two levels of swordsage gets you Assassin's Stance, another stance, some nice maneuvers, weapon focus with daggers, and +3 reflex and will saves. This opens you up for Shadow Blade, which fits the whole dagger thing. Those are just the ones I can think of right now. I wouldn't suggest doing them all, though. Pick one that you like.

You might want to go into Invisible Blade or Master Thrower. They fit the theme.

Craven is always a good feat if you can get sneak attack. PBS and Precise shot are pretty much necessary for throwing daggers.

Poison works great with daggers, but I don't think it's what you're going for.

Tip: get some riverine daggers. It is from stormwrack. For +2000gp (2000/lb), the weapon is a force effect. It bypasses DR and can hit incorporeal things. It's way cheaper than getting daggers of each DR and more effective. Plus, having a dagger made of pure force and water is just SO COOL.

[fishyfishyfishy]

I've never played one, but I've used knife throwing enemies as a DM many times; it's just so much fun. Master Thrower combines nicely with some form of Sneak Attack. (Rogue Levels, Assassin's Stance, Sneak Attack Fighter, etc.) Whisperknife is another good one for throwing daggers, and since you have to be a halfling you might as well get at least one level of Rogue and take the Halfling Rogue Substitution level for +1d6 Sneak Attack damage with thrown weapons. The skill points help qualify for the class too. If you don't mind Psionics you can take a few levels of Psychic Warrior and grab Psionic Shot and Greater Psionic Shot for bonus damage as well. I had one guy that had Monk and Psychic Warrior with Tashalatora so that he could Flurry with Shiruken as ranged attacks and even make them deal acid damage. But that was more of a "I hurl sharp objects at you at range, and when you close in I beat you with my fists" kind of encounter.

If you're going to go melee then you might definitely want to go with Two Weapon Fighting and Rogue for bonus Sneak Attack damage. Otherwise your attacks are going to be pretty useless since you won't be getting 1+1/2 Strength or even Power Attack damage.

EDIT: I completely forgot! You can use Knowledge Devotion as a source of bonus damage as well! Factotum seems like the perfect class to pull that one off.

[Madhava]

Rogue 3 is a nice dropoff-point, as it allows for picking up either penetrating strike or death's ruin ACF's.

Sadly, a lot of the thematic PrC's for this sort of thing required some rather painful feat investments.

Consider Bloodclaw Master levels; tiger claw maneuvers fulfill your pounce-needs nicely. Also consider binding Paimon.

[Fearan]

Well, my first advice to anyone, who uses fighter - use Hit and run tactics (DoTU). Dip swordsage or just martial study/martial stance for the Assassin's stance and Shadow blade. After that, consider PrC-ing in master thrower(CW). Ask youre DM to refluff the Glove of Endless javelins (MiC) for daggers. Done.

[weckar]

How fast would I have to run into a corner after suggesting Invisible Blade?

[Zaq]

I feel like Sneak Attack (Thug) Fighter is going to be better than normal Fighter, at least if you're going primarily melee and not primarily ranged. You can't get worthwhile Power Attack returns with daggers, and you can't get 1.5 times your STR to damage with them, so you really want some other flavor of bonus damage. Sneak Attack fits.

If you're going primarily ranged, you might go for a Master Thrower build, though even that is going to want some kind of Sneak Attack, I think. But still, thrown daggers are fun because you can use both TWF and Rapid Shot to get lots of extra attacks. (Means that you're not going to get a reliable enchantment on those daggers, because you're going to be using a million of them, but you knew that when you signed up to be a non-Bloodstorm Blade thrower.)

[gorfnab]

I have used this build before previously for a dagger fighter. It is based on getting decent sneak attack and two weapon fighting. However this build only uses two levels of fighter. It gets you 2x(Dex mod) + Int mod on ranged attacks and Dex mod + Int mod on melee along with 7d6 sneak attack + Craven.

Strongheart Halfling or Human
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Craven, Far Shot, 2x Flaws
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Two Weapon Fighting
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF(DS)
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swordsage - B: Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand weapons, Shadowblade
7. Swashbuckler
8. Fighter - Hit-and-Run Tactics ACF (DotU - if your DM is lenient), Targeteer ACF (DragMag 310)- Vital Aim
9. Fighter - Targeteer ACF - Rapid Shot, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Swordsage
11. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
12. Master Thrower - Dead Eye (DragMag 304)
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Some ideas for getting infinite daggers to throw:
Glove of Endless Javelins - ask the DM if you can change the javelin part to daggers if you also reduce the damage from 1d6+1 to 1d4+1
Quiver of Anariel - ask the DM if you can change the "Quiver" to "Bandoleer" and arrow(s) to dagger(s).
Quiver of Anariel



Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.
Thankfully someone saved this article here (http://web.archive.org/web/20070401150041/http:/ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats) since WOTC decided to delete the original posting.

Other items to consider:
Rogue's Vest (MIC)
Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM)
Bracers of the Hunter (SoX)