advice against high sr/dr monk

[Monk of love]

Hello, I have been wracking my brain recently and come up with nothing so I am looking for help here. recently I fought something in my game which honestly I just don't know how to face!

I am a psion 6/thrallherd 4

I fought a creature with high dr/ sr in the 40-60's and it was a high level monk..so what do I do? swarm of crystals and it somehow was deflected and didn't work, so I figure either it somehow has a way to deflect aoe/burst abilities which I can't find out how , or has immunity to certain level powers, so what's next? astral construct but a different wall is hit.. apparently it can also summon a wall of force. I then thought maybe I should do independent research and make a new dissipating touch at lvl 3 or higher (as my wall of energy did work but the dr blocked it) and then find a way to make it ranged touch rather than just touch then use the metapower burrowing power. that''s what I am looking at now however if anyone know a way to make a touch attacked ranged or a completely different way to deal with the threat I would gladly appreciate the help.

[Firest Kathon]

Do you have a clue what the damage reduction is? Then you could get your thralls appropriate weapons (or summon appropriate monsters ?).

I don't know what powers a psion can use, but is there something similar to e.g. Acid Arrow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidArrow.htm), which is a SR: no spell and so also ignores DR.


it somehow has a way to deflect aoe/burst abilities which I can't find out how
Maybe evasion?


my wall of energy did work but the dr blocked it
Damage reduction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction) only works against weapon attacks, not against spells or psionic powers.

The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities
This text obviously predates Psionics, so they are not mentioned, but there should be some text somewhere which clarifies that. And the wall of energy is an energy attack anyways.

[Monk of love]

Do you have a clue what the damage reduction is? Then you could get your thralls appropriate weapons (or summon appropriate monsters ?).

I don't know what powers a psion can use, but is there something similar to e.g. Acid Arrow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/acidArrow.htm), which is a SR: no spell and so also ignores DR.


Maybe evasion?


Damage reduction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#damageReduction) only works against weapon attacks, not against spells or psionic powers.

This text obviously predates Psionics, so they are not mentioned, but there should be some text somewhere which clarifies that. And the wall of energy is an energy attack anyways.

there is no reflex save so I ruled out evasion, however the fact that damage reduction does not stop energy damage(or energy drain) I did not know and will bring that up definitely

this is a link to srd swarm of crystals http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/swarmofCrystals.htm

It's a cone no sr and no save so it's usually my go-to for creatures with high touch so it was a surprise to me that it didn't work.

dr 15/ adamantium

[atemu1234]

So you're a player and are facing a high SR/DR monk?

Is this another player or the DM? Because if it's the DM, I'm willing to say it's fiat.

[Red Fel]

Hello, I have been wracking my brain recently and come up with nothing so I am looking for help here. recently I fought something in my game which honestly I just don't know how to face!

I am a psion 6/thrallherd 4

I fought a creature with high dr/ sr in the 40-60's and it was a high level monk..so what do I do? swarm of crystals and it somehow was deflected and didn't work, so I figure either it somehow has a way to deflect aoe/burst abilities which I can't find out how , or has immunity to certain level powers, so what's next? astral construct but a different wall is hit.. apparently it can also summon a wall of force. I then thought maybe I should do independent research and make a new dissipating touch at lvl 3 or higher (as my wall of energy did work but the dr blocked it) and then find a way to make it ranged touch rather than just touch then use the metapower burrowing power. that''s what I am looking at now however if anyone know a way to make a touch attacked ranged or a completely different way to deal with the threat I would gladly appreciate the help.

DR and SR are two very different things. DR protects from weapon damage (and any Psionic powers that deal slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning damage, such as Crystalstorm, see the "Metacreativity and Damage Reduction" sidebar), but generally does not protect against energy damage. SR protects from spells and powers that are subject to it, but generally not weapons. For a creature to have both, and so high, seems very unusual to me, but there is a power you can use. It's called Amethyst Burst, from Dragon Magic; it deals 2d6 damage in a radius, SR: Nope, Reflex half, augment to increase damage dice and save DC. No SR, no DR, but Ref save, so if this is a somewhat cheesy monk, he may make the save.

Now, for ranged touch attacks, Crystalstorm and Psionic Disintegrate are your bread and butter; the problem is that while Crystalstorm ignores PR/SR, it is subject to DR; Psionic Disintegrate ignores DR, but is subject to PR/SR.

Another option is Energy Wall, which you mentioned. Here's where it gets tricky: DR doesn't block Energy Wall. As I mentioned above, DR, or damage reduction, works on weapon attacks and certain sources of weapon damage. A longsword or mace is subject to DR, as are spells and powers that explicitly deal slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning damage; a Fireball or similar energy-damage-dealing spell is not. Energy Wall deals energy damage, chosen at the time of casting; it allows for a save, but it does not allow for DR, or for SR/PR. Simply put, this should have worked. I'm going to agree with Atemu - either this guy didn't understand what DR does, or he decided by fiat that you failed.

[Monk of love]

It's the DM, they are enemies of our party otherwise I wouldn't think it's a big deal but as it stands, it's as if nothing I do works, I'll bring up the dr not working against energy wall and hope that works, I have had to face them several times now even and really all I could do was escape

[Darrin]

These things have Plot Immunity. Your best strategy is to level with the DM, figure out what he wants (railroading, punishing PCs for being idiots, clumsy retcon for a previous detailment, inflict his unwritten fantasy novel on you, etc.), and then decide if this is something you can live with.

[Alea]

The monk should have high saves, high-ish touch AC, mediocre non-touch AC, some SR, little if any DR, and almost zero offensive ability. The answer for a thrallherd would usually just be to have your minions smash him, or just overcome his touch AC and SR since neither should be all that high.

But this sounds like DM fiat, plain and simple. In reality, you probably could have defenses that high – but by the time you do, you’ve been focused on defense so hard that your offense is basically nonexistent, and you could just ignore the monk as being hard to kill, but utterly incapable of actually threatening you. But then I imagine that, having fiated the monk’s defenses, the DM has also fiated the monk’s offenses as well, so this is no longer true.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The monk could have had an item of Resistance to Cold and let his high saves and evasion do the rest. With a manifester level of 9 the wall does 2d6+18 if you pass through (1d6+9 if you make your save) so the monk would need resistance to cold 15 to be immune to it on a successful save.

If it isn't fiat it is built to "nope button" you.

[Powerdork]

Out of curiosity, what is the creature's description?

[Monk of love]

Out of curiosity, what is the creature's description?

the way he described it is " a human looking female" the kicker is that there are tens of them but usually I've only encountered 1-3 at a time. I was thinking empathetic feedback might be a good option as I am an elan I could negate some damage and let the rest go back at it.

I asked and it seems they also have a bloodline but what bloodline I don't know.

I guess I'll just have to deal with trying to astral construct them to death combined with something like energy wall because even if they have resistance to cold 15 there are other things forms like fire, electric etc

[Red Fel]

I guess I'll just have to deal with trying to astral construct them to death combined with something like energy wall because even if they have resistance to cold 15 there are other things forms like fire, electric etc

There is something you can do. Something that ignores SR, DR, and every other kind of *R.

Battlefield control. Psions do have battlefield control powers. Yes, Astral Construct is a great start, but that's not all you can do. Entangling Ectoplasm is a thing, and it penalizes Dex - which will hurt touch AC further. Ectoplasmic Cocoon is also a thing, although Ref negates, but using it after Entangling Ectoplasm can increase your chances.

You also have some survival tactics. Concealing Amorpha is also a good survival tactic, since a 1/5 chance to neutralize any attack is a heck of a thing. Wall of Ectoplasm is great, if you're a Shaper. These are things you can do to keep distance between yourself and some fiat Monk.

And that's the bottom line. Not every battle is won by direct damage. Some are won by locking an enemy down until reinforcements arrive. If you want to be particularly nasty, Entangling Ectoplasm to entangle your enemy, followed by Ectoplasmic Cocoon, and then drown the sucker. It's not HP damage, but it works.

Unless it's fiat. Which I think it is.

[Crake]

see how well they grapple, get your party wizard to throw some evards on them.

[Telok]

Dude, thrallherd.
Buy some nets and dust of choking and sneezing for your warm bodies and human wave them. Failing that your minions are ablative armor.

Hmm, how many crawling tatoos of first level powers can you get? It might be possible to buy your opponents to death one natural 20 at a time. A few potions/tatoos of Fly or Levitate should help too, if the enemy gets retconned into having flight or +50 jump checks you'll have a better idea of what you are facing.

[Monk of love]

Dude, thrallherd.
Buy some nets and dust of choking and sneezing for your warm bodies and human wave them. Failing that your minions are ablative armor.

Hmm, how many crawling tatoos of first level powers can you get? It might be possible to buy your opponents to death one natural 20 at a time. A few potions/tatoos of Fly or Levitate should help too, if the enemy gets retconned into having flight or +50 jump checks you'll have a better idea of what you are facing.
Money wise well I have a lot of it, about 800k gold. And usually in game time every month another 500k. How close do they have to be for crawling tattoos

[Karl Aegis]

If it is a monk then it is a monk with over 30 levels in monk. More likely it is a spell-to-power Erudite possessing a statue made of an obscure material that is practically immune to everything. Either way, they are campaign breaking. Let them break the campaign and see how your DM picks up the pieces.

[Telok]

Money wise well I have a lot of it, about 800k gold. And usually in game time every month another 500k. How close do they have to be for crawling tattoos

It is on the SRD under the misc. psionic magic items. A third level power costs three hundred gold, costs a standard action to activate, moves thirty feet, and makes touch attacks at manifester level (5) plus ability modifier of the creator. If they aren't destroyed or used up you can recover them after the fight.

Edit: Line of sight targeting. It looks like very simple video game AI, they advance and attack as long as they have line of sight and if they don't have line of sight they wait to be recovered or (presumably) untill they see the target again.

[Feint's End]

(and any Psionic powers that deal slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning damage, such as Crystalstorm, see the "Metacreativity and Damage Reduction" sidebar)

Holy cow ... I didn't know about this sidebar up until now. What were they thinking? AFAIK spells are still not subject to dr so why the nerf for psionic powers?

Weird stuff.

But generally this seems like your dm doesn't want this enemy to be killed (quite frankly the enemy shouldn't be able to negate all the damage of your crystal swarm unless he has extremely high dr ... seems more like fiat to me). Find out what your DM is trying to achieve by doing this.

[Hamste]

Did you see all 4 of their limbs? They may be half iron golems. High DR and spell immunity. Can come in squads of 5-20. Or half clay golems seeing they are immune to slashing.


The wall of force I do not know.