Rekindling Interest in Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines

[Malistrae]

To those who are not aware of the game:
V: TM Bloodlines was a highly ambitious V:TM adaptation by Troika Games, released in 2004. The game was praised for the depth of writing, as well as the great atmosphere. Unfortunately, the game was not a commercial success, due to the fact it had many technical issues at launch. Troika Games folded in 2005, and interest in the rpg waned. Retrospectively, it was a singular, if flawed, effort to translate the deep storytelling characteristic of White Wolf tabletop rpgs into a computer rpg. However, the game later gained a heavy cult following, and many mods were produced for the game. This is partly due to the fact that Bloodlines was the last World of Darkness computer game, and there is seemingly very little future for the franchise, since the current owner (CCP) hoards the IP and cancelled the production of their own V: TM-based mmo's development.
However, times are changing. I started following the development of a highly ambitious fan-project 3 years ago, and its release is finally near. The Bloodlines Antitribu (previously known as Rise of the Antitribu) is nearly completed, with a release date of February 5th. The mod uses unique scripts to improve the combat system (kicking and blocking added for example), as well as provides disciplines with new effects, which are not just reskins of vanilla disciplines. Furthermore, the player will be able to choose between 7 new clans/bloodlines (namely: Tzimisce, Lasombra, Giovanni, Nagaraja, Old Clan Tzimisce, Followers of Set, Samedi). Each clan has unique disciplines (koldunism is a fourth "discipline" for Old Clan Tzimisce) and appearance. The plot is also expanded with over 100 new NPCs, several new quests, and the possibility of defecting to the Sabbat.
So the question is this: Have you ever played Bloodlines? If so, what are your experiences? If you haven't played yet, or quitted the game, will you give it a shot due to the mod?
P.S.: The Final Nights mod also implemented Setites, but Bloodlines Antitribu actually allows you to transform into a cobra, instead of a reskinned Protean Beast form.

[Chen]

Haven't played this game in ages but I always did love it. Does this new mod completely change the story or is it the same basic thing? Did they add new items, more weapons choices or such? How unique are the disciplines and did they add more discipline use to quests? These are all the types of things I'd been looking for in the game. I might give it a shot depending on how these are setup. God knows my computer now will at least be able to manage the game much better than when I originally purchased it heh.

[Driderman]

Even vanilla, it's one of the better RPGs I've ever played (action-RPG I suppose) and with the fan-patch it becomes even better. Hopefully I'll remember this particular mod is out once the terrible storm of Next Semester subsides and I have time to get into the game, again :)

[Malistrae]

Haven't played this game in ages but I always did love it. Does this new mod completely change the story or is it the same basic thing? Did they add new items, more weapons choices or such? How unique are the disciplines and did they add more discipline use to quests? These are all the types of things I'd been looking for in the game. I might give it a shot depending on how these are setup. God knows my computer now will at least be able to manage the game much better than when I originally purchased it heh.

I am no dev, but there have been many screenshots, explanations, announcements and a few videos during the years of development, so I am able to mostly answer your questions. The story has the same framework, but with many more sidequests and expanded options, such as the possibility of defecting from the Camarilla to the Sabbat, and finishing the main quest through them. New items are definetly in there, as well as weapons, since one or two videos showed some new melee weapons (including a sword-shield combo). The enemies are also more intelligent, and are capable of using active disciplines if they are vampires. The combat system in general has been reworked, so stuff like blocking and kicking are quite possible. The mod also offers companions, some of whom are mortal, and can be turned into vampires through the right dialogue choices.
The following unique disciplines are added:
Necromancy is a shared discipline for the Nagaraja, Giovanni and Samedi. It apparently includes the power to create undead minions, but not much else is known about its exact functions.
Thanatosis is a Samedi discipline, and is said to be highly offensive, based around literally turning the enemy into a rotting corpse.
Nihilistics is a Nagaraja discipline, somehow featuring the blue flames of Oblivion, and probably related to ghosts.
Vicissictude, the Tzimisce discipline, had a few powers showcased recently, but the exact mechanisms are mysterious.
Obtenebration, the Lasombra discipline, was shown capable of summoning shadow-tentacles and transforming the user into a tentacled shadow-monster.
Serpentis, the Setite discipline, had a single power showcased, which allowed the user to transform into a literal non-humanoid cobra and spit venomous gales at enemies.
Koldunism is a mystery.
However, since the developers have managed to circumvent many limitations of the engine, they have incredible amount of freedom when it comes to scripting disciplines compared to older mods. The developers also hate reusing powers. That's why even if a lot of disciplines involve transformation, the actual gameplay involved is vastly different. The Ravnos were scrapped by the devs and replaced by the Setites, because the first iteration of Chimestry was deemed too similar to Dementation, while the second iteration (which involved summoning an "object" and giving it a certain illusory effect) proved too time-confusing and difficult to use for the testers.
Edit: See below for update about Tzimisce

[Brother Oni]

The story has the same framework, but with many more sidequests and expanded options, such as the possibility of defecting from the Camarilla to the Sabbat, and finishing the main quest through them.

That defection is going to have to be very early on, since pretty much all the additional clans listed are either Sabbat only or otherwise seriously hate the Camarilla.

I've played it twice, gave up on my second attempt with a melee ninja Nosferatu as there were trigger points that automatically took you out of cloak (despite having Obsfucate 5) that made certain sections impossible (the Hallowbrook Hotel mainly).
I ended up using the console to go into god mode to kill all the hostiles, then tested the trigger points - even with no enemies on the map, I still lost cloak on certain specific points, usually right before a chokepoint.

Despite that, it's a good game with all the patches and well worth playing once 'properly' as a Camarilla vampire before trying out all the other mods.

[Malistrae]

That defection is going to have to be very early on, since pretty much all the additional clans listed are either Sabbat only or otherwise seriously hate the Camarilla.

I've played it twice, gave up on my second attempt with a melee ninja Nosferatu as there were trigger points that automatically took you out of cloak (despite having Obsfucate 5) that made certain sections impossible (the Hallowbrook Hotel mainly).
I ended up using the console to go into god mode to kill all the hostiles, then tested the trigger points - even with no enemies on the map, I still lost cloak on certain specific points, usually right before a chokepoint.

Despite that, it's a good game with all the patches and well worth playing once 'properly' as a Camarilla vampire before trying out all the other mods.

Yep, a significant problem with the vanilla was that stealth and social characters were rendered useless in the later parts of the game. Antitribu supposedly makes combat more difficult (by giving active abilities to supernatural enemies, for example), but it also offers some ways to sidestep enemies, and also gives more useful disciplines (Animalism was shown summoning an actual animal minion to fight for you in a gameplay video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBzrLTxjmUk), instead of a fancy one-hit kill). In fact, this was a huge problem in vanilla, because many disciplines such as Dementation, Dominate, Animalism and Thaumaturgy were basically hit-and-miss. Against regular opponents they were very powerful, but against tougher opponents and bosses they were often useless.
Personally, I played through both vanilla and Final Nights several times (as a Ventrue, Tremere, Malkavian, Baali and Setite to be specific), and right now, I am very bored of the clans and disciplines offered there. In fact, the quests and expanded areas are nice, but for me, the most important part of the mod will be the new clans and disciplines.
About the Sabbat: screenshots and developer comments indicate that if you defect to Sabbat, you will be vaulderie'd into a pack, who will be available as companions with a hideout designed for them. However, I have no idea when will this take place in the game.

[Drasius]

Played it a million years ago when it came out, had the crash, eventually came back when the fanpatch fixed it and replayed it a couple of times. Was great, one of the better story telling RPGs IMHO, though as already pointed out, the last section is all combat all the time, so it's a bit of a pain if you were doing social interaction. Still, it was a fairly easy game, so it wasn't as much of a pain as it could have been, just jarring.

[Malistrae]

Played it a million years ago when it came out, had the crash, eventually came back when the fanpatch fixed it and replayed it a couple of times. Was great, one of the better story telling RPGs IMHO, though as already pointed out, the last section is all combat all the time, so it's a bit of a pain if you were doing social interaction. Still, it was a fairly easy game, so it wasn't as much of a pain as it could have been, just jarring.

By the time you reached Hotel Hallowbrook, if you weren't a combat monster, the game was practically unwinnable except by gaming the system as much as possible. This was further underscored by the fact that if you chose to be a combat monster focused on your supposedly strong disciplines, you were still gimped because, as I mentioned above, many disciplines were various iterations of the same save-or-die effect, and late-game vampire enemies often no-selled those powers.
Yes, it had incredible great storytelling. I suspect the last parts were all combat because the devs ran out of time to finish the game (the endless hordes of male Ventrue PC clones in Lacroix's tower lends credence to this).

[Feytalist]

One of my favourite games. Interesting plot, great characters, great voice acting, awesome music. Shame about the bugs. Which basically describes all the Troika games. Heh.

Dunno, I played the game a bunch of times, as a melee fighter, ranged fighter, and as a sneaky tech expert. I can honestly say the Obfuscation experts were my easiest playthroughs.

I'd be interested to see a major overhaul, but mods like these always have the danger of changing the atmosphere of the game. And in this case, atmosphere is everything.

[Malistrae]

One of my favourite games. Interesting plot, great characters, great voice acting, awesome music. Shame about the bugs. Which basically describes all the Troika games. Heh.

Dunno, I played the game a bunch of times, as a melee fighter, ranged fighter, and as a sneaky tech expert. I can honestly say the Obfuscation experts were my easiest playthroughs.

I'd be interested to see a major overhaul, but mods like these always have the danger of changing the atmosphere of the game. And in this case, atmosphere is everything.

As far as I can tell from the previews, the atmosphere seems mostly intact. The PCs are a little more powerful lorewise, due to having access to disciplines like Necromancy or Koldunism, but the enemies (both old and new) are also stronger due to them using active abilities. The mod's content also seems to heave closely to V: TM canon, though it incorporates some elements from other splats (increased Kuei-Jin presence, and a few mages apparently, for example). Of course, the vanilla game also had these elements here-and-there, so I don't think they will break the mood.
The only issue I can think of is that in vanilla, you are a member of the 7 Camarilla Clans, who are frankly pretty normal and humane compared to other clans/bloodlines, which means that a sense of helplessness and personal horror is present due to their human-ish outlook and existence. The playable bloodlines in Antritibu, however, are mostly monstrous (mentally, if not physically) and more inhumane and otherwordly. This somewhat lessens the personal horror aspect, due to your character's increased distance from regular humans. A Nagaraja or Giovanni won't be as terrified of the Ocean House as a Toreador, or Ventrue, for example. Or, a Tzimisce won't be creeped out by Andrei's actions in Hollywood.
Of course, you can play up this inhumanity as alienation. Your character is slowly drifting away from regular mortals much more quickly than the Camarilla Clans. Does your character embrace this transformation? Does s/he revel in his/her own monstrosity? Will s/he defect to the Sabbat and plunge into the abyss willingly? Or will s/he struggle to hold on to his/her tattered humanity? Will s/he remain with the Camarilla or the Anarchs even as his/her evolution distances him/her more and more from humans and "normal" cainites with every night? The personal horror of a still mostly human vampire trapped in a world of monsters is replaced by the personal horror of an ex-human trapped in a slow slide towards monstrosity. Of course, due to the Beast, this is present in Vanilla as well, but Antitribu makes the whole monster-or-human theme much more pronounced and emphasised due to the available clans/bloodlines.

[Cristo Meyers]

... (the endless hordes of male Ventrue PC clones in Lacroix's tower lends credence to this).

I thought I'd just broken down the door to a Highlander convention on mistake...

[Malistrae]

I thought I'd just broken down the door to a Highlander convention on mistake...

That area had a lot of leather coats flying around... It was especially bizarre for me, since I picked male Ventrue for my first playthrough and being confronted by a bunch of vampires reusing my models and textures, wearing my clothes, was honestly ridiculous.
Of course there is a Watsonian explanation for this: LaCroix's Sheriff. The Sheriff was from Africa, very mysterious and had the power to transform into a large chiropteran creature. What discipline allows this? The answer is simple: Vicissitude. One of the Level 6 Vicissitude powers is the same ability. Therefore, the Sheriff is likely an african Tzimisce. Lacroix was a control freak, so it is possible that he wanted each of his Ventrue servants to look and dress the same. So, the Sheriff reshaped all of them to be identical.

[Eldan]

By the time you reached Hotel Hallowbrook, if you weren't a combat monster, the game was practically unwinnable except by gaming the system as much as possible. This was further underscored by the fact that if you chose to be a combat monster focused on your supposedly strong disciplines, you were still gimped because, as I mentioned above, many disciplines were various iterations of the same save-or-die effect, and late-game vampire enemies often no-selled those powers.
Yes, it had incredible great storytelling. I suspect the last parts were all combat because the devs ran out of time to finish the game (the endless hordes of male Ventrue PC clones in Lacroix's tower lends credence to this).

I actually got pretty far as a social-only Toreador. It was only in those annoying endless sewer/cave levels full of mutated enemies that I stopped that approach, got a gun, a katana and put all my future points in whatever the speed discipline was called.

[Malistrae]

I actually got pretty far as a social-only Toreador. It was only in those annoying endless sewer/cave levels full of mutated enemies that I stopped that approach, got a gun, a katana and put all my future points in whatever the speed discipline was called.
Celerity. Interestingly, Celerity, Fortitude, Thaumaturgy, Dementation and Protean won't be present for PCs in Antitribu. However, compared to vanilla's 11 disciplines (if I counted right), Antitribu has 13 disciplines (I am not counting stuff like Blood Buff and Blood Heal).
The unavailability of Fortitude and Celerity will make combat more interesting, since those disciplines often made it into a joke. Of course, companions can still have those regular disciplines and you are allowed to directly control them, so they are still available, just not for your own character.

[Driderman]

Celerity. Interestingly, Celerity, Fortitude, Thaumaturgy, Dementation and Protean won't be present for PCs in Antitribu. However, compared to vanilla's 11 disciplines (if I counted right), Antitribu has 13 disciplines (I am not counting stuff like Blood Buff and Blood Heal).
The unavailability of Fortitude and Celerity will make combat more interesting, since those disciplines often made it into a joke. Of course, companions can still have those regular disciplines and you are allowed to directly control them, so they are still available, just not for your own character.

But Samedi and Old Clan Tzimisce have Fortitude as clan disciplines, so why is it not available?

[Malistrae]

But Samedi and Old Clan Tzimisce have Fortitude as clan disciplines, so why is it not available?

Old Clan Tzimisce are the same as regular Tzimisce discipline-wise, only they replace Vicissitude with Dominate (although Antitribu adds koldunism as a fourth discipline to them so that they are more unique). I just checked the 20th anniversary edition V:TM corebook and it says right on page 439 that they have Animalism, Auspex and Dominate. Not sure where you got that Fortitude from. From Antitribu's viewpoint, giving so mental powers to the Old Clan is logical, as their gameplay will involve a lot of puzzle-solving and investigations, apparently (I think it's related to spirits). Some other bloodlines will also have unique gameplay elements, such as the Nagaraja's ability to eat ghosts for sustenance.
You are right about Samedi, they get Necromancy instead of Fortitude in the mod. The reasons are twofold: Necromancy is a more interesting discipline, secondly Fortitude (as well as Celerity) massively contributed to the ridiciulous simplification of in-game combat. Depending on your clan, if you got either Fortitude or Celerity maxed out, you were practically invincible as long as you played with at least mediocre skills.
Nagaraja are also an exception, as they get Nihilistics (their original Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand discipline) instead of Dominate.

[Inspector Valin]

Not much more to say, just one more voice popping in to say how cool VtM Bloodlines is. :smallwink: I'm not too fond of the Old World of Darkness as a setting, but even I can't deny that this game's a classic.

[Malistrae]

An update:
As the release draws near, the creator started releasing Clan videos, which depict the new models and disciplines that will be available to them. The first one is the Tzimisce. You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2V9ubTzREo
I can't wait to play around with Vicissitude :smallbiggrin:.