[PF] Making Sure My Plans Aren't Too Lethal

[NightbringerGGZ]

I'm about to start running a homebrew campaign with a rather large group of eight players. Of these one players is quite experienced as a player and a GM, three have about 5 sessions from another game under their belt and the other four are completely new. On the whole the group has a lot of gaming experience, especially in MMOs. I've explained how some of the basic mechanics work and everybody knows that Pathfinder lacks true threat mechanics, so they're expecting a different experience from MMOs. The party composition is as follows:

Pixie Cleric - Homebrew Race, focus on luck magic and granting rerolls
Human Rogue - Ranged Sniper build going for a one-shot per round build
Human Hunter - Ranged build, taking the Primal Companion archetype with a T-Rex. So, an Eidolon with a T-Rex chasis to build on.
Half Elf (Drow) Alchemist - Melee fighter using the Grenadier archetype for bombs on melee hits
Human Investigator - Dipping Gunslinger and picking up a shot gun. Guns are Everywhere rules in effect.
Warforged Slayer - Homebrew Race, Two-Handed Build, picking up a Scythe.
Half Orc Kinetecist - Starting with an air theme, will be flying and sniping
Human Magus - Using the Kensai archetype and a homebrew archetype based on the Mistborn series. Trades burst damage spells out for a lot of utility magic.

My first session is going to start with some investigation, the players will be tracking down some stolen property for a NPC who will be giving them missions early on. I'm going to treat this as a bit of a tutorial, so they'll get used to rolling d20s and applying modifiers to the rolls. Eventually they're going to gather enough clues to track down the warren of a gang of Ratfolk thieves, where I expect to have my first combat.

The first combat will be against a mechanical construct they use to keep people out of the warehouse they're hiding in. I'm going to allow it multiple turns per round (probably 3), but it won't be doing much damage. Mostly this thing exists to soak up hits and introduce the new players to the combat mechanics. I plan to use some concentrated water blasts to push players around the combat zone, teaching them about CMB & CMD as well.

The second combat is where I may be over doing things. I want the gang of Ratfolk to swarm around the party. They'll be fighting in a warehouse between stacks of boxes (which can be climbed / interacted with). I'm going to have 8 ratfolk with clubs or daggers, using the Swarming trait (two to a square). Two ratfolk with crossbows will be on top of crates which they can open, releasing two Rat Swarms. The leader of the gang will have class levels, but will be directing the fight from an overhead walk way and will run away when things go bad.

The party will have four melee characters (counting the T-Rex) who are all pretty well optimized. There will also be 5 ranged characters with some pretty powerful builds, though they won't all have Precise Shot at level 1. What do y'all think?

[Verikus]

The first fight getting everyone used to the basics is very smart. In my experience anything that allows the players to get creative early is your best bet, and reminding them that although you're not trying to kill them the, bad guys certainly are, also helps.

The warehouse setting should let them get pretty creative with jumping on crates, pushing them over, etc, and the ratswarm idea should go over well. Having them ambushed will force teamwork early on which is what you should be going for (get used to big encounters with 8 people, it's hard to gauge CRs with that many, so you'll be relying on traps and multiple guys a lot to keep combat 'fair' for your NPCs)

I also like the potential plant for a recurring bad NPC. Big groups (which are what I generally have to run) can get unwieldly with combat, so as long as it's interesting (like what you have here) even longer combats will be fun for all.

So to summarize 1) No this should not be lethal for 8 players even at low level, and in fact 2) Seems like a very good concept, and 3) Get used to 8 PCs being able to handle WAY more then you think they should (doubly when they are a decent team)

[goto124]

Since they're from MMOs, it might be best not to deal with morally questionable events, such as getting past guards, and your players are going to expect 'kill it' to be the solution to a lot of things. Sure you can teach them it's not like that in TTRPGs, but ease them into it and don't rush.

[Dysart]

Having experienced a large player group in the past I would warn you that you're likely to get a disparity between real life personalities.

As with any RP group you're going to get the leader/follower mentalties appear. In combat that's fine, it usually has the ones who understand the rules best advising the ones who don't. But when it comes to the roleplaying elements be sure to switch it up and maybe even seperate the party so that the quieter maybe even shy players get a chance to shine.

One thing, seen as it's homebrew, it may be a good idea to occasionally have mechanics where they have to split into two groups and take on two different evens at the same time. This will give you a bit of a break and allow you to make nice challenges for them and build tension.
Something I've had work well in the past is to get a group up to a cliffhanger moment and then switch to the other group, leaves them begging for answers and lots of tension while not letting the other group get too bored of waiting for their turn.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Thanks for the advice everybody. I'm borrowing a bit from PFS and keeping the sessions self contained, so we can bring players in and out. With 8 players I definite expect that we'll have scheduling problems, so splitting the party when up to half of them can't participate will be pretty easy. If you've ever played Treasure of the Rudras I figured I could borrow from some of the story telling elements in that game, where multiple parties are involved in the same plot line but don't directly interact until towards the end.

The first fight is going to be against a construct designed to serve as protection for the first block of warehouses. It was built with a few specific tasks in mind, stop trespassers and remove them from the area it guards, transport / protect people who are injured and put out any fires. It's just been reprogrammed by some of the ratfolk and is malfunctioning. With this in mind I'm thinking it will be large size, but able to move rather quickly along set paths. I'll give it a slam attack which deals nonlethal damage, a tank filled with water that can be shot from a water cannon (Push CMB check, customize the severity of the effect) and a voice system that's been tinkered with to produce piercing shrieks for minor sonic damage if you fail a Fort save. I can have the bot move on an overhead rail system that lets it travel through the complex, requiring players to hop on some of the crates to deal melee damage. Give it DR 5 / Slashing and it'll be very annoying to sit back and let the ranged characters deal with it.

The ratfolk I have plans for as a recurring nuisance. The game setting is actually the world of the Garrett PI novels, and having a group constantly after the heroes is a very common trope. I want to play with the swarming trait and see what can be done with it. I'm thinking of making the basic soldiers Fighters using 10 point buys for stats, which shouldn't be too big of a challenge for the players. I'll use half +1 HP for their first level, so a swarm of 6-8 HP fighters with builds that aren't fully optimized shouldn't bumb the difficult of that fight too much. It's the swarms that will present the biggest challenge I imagine.