Unsettling/Creepy Characters?

[Hiro]

I have a question for all the awesome people here.

I got asked to generate a BBEG for a friend to use, he wants the char to be female. and somethin akin to a "queen succubus" with a vampire-like tilt (not full template but maybe a blood drain attack?)

But the big thing is the requirement is the char be "creepy" but I'm not sure how to portray that.

An idea they liked was like a fallen angel that through soul-shenanigans fused with a greater succubus (to produce somethin akin to a Nephealem in the Diablo 3 sense)

[FocusWolf413]

Give the character a "trophy collection" from all of the people she's killed. Because it's a succubus, a severed penis collection would be appropriate.

[Hiro]

That would work but I'm also speaking about small things that fill that "uncanny valley" effect.

I was thinking using binder levels and vestiges, particularly

Tenebrous, Ashadarlon and Marchosias.

[Asrrin]

A dollmaster perhaps? Have the thing the PC's interact with be a disguised construct that's "not quite" perfectly human.

Plot twist, the BBEG uses flesh to stone as the source of the "mannequins" required to create more constructs. Guess where all of those innocent damsels in distress gone missing have been ending up?

[nedz]

But the big thing is the requirement is the char be "creepy" but I'm not sure how to portray that.

Take some cute twee thing you know well and invert it. Invert that, and do this again — taking different angles on the thing each time.

Now: you should have something creepy, which no one will recognise and you didn't even expect yourself.

[(Un)Inspired]

Do you want a character that will unsettle the characters in game or the players at the table? Or both?

[atemu1234]

Dread Vampire Succubus. Dips into third party, heck of a level adjustment, but in return is, quite frankly, awesome.

Or you could try the mundane route. A human seductress with a blood drinking fetish. Countess Bathory, pretty much.

[Hiro]

Yeah something that will unsettle the players and PC's.

Dread Vampire? I thought that temp can't be applied to outsiders? Could you link it for me?

I may borrow from Artemis Entreri's line in "Streams of Silver"- "There are many ways to defile a body fool, and I will practice everyone on yours."

A dollmaster may work too, use a flesh golem that's been cleaned up to LOOK alive and enchant to even have a magically generated pulse and warmth.

[atemu1234]

Yeah something that will unsettle the players and PC's.

Dread Vampire? I thought that temp can't be applied to outsiders? Could you link it for me?

I may borrow from Artemis Entreri's line in "Streams of Silver"- "There are many ways to defile a body fool, and I will practice everyone on yours."

A dollmaster may work too, use a flesh golem that's been cleaned up to LOOK alive and enchant to even have a magically generated pulse and warmth.

The one from advanced bestiary can, unless I am mistaken.

[Vhaidara]

Dread Vampire? I thought that temp can't be applied to outsiders? Could you link it for me?

Fun fact: If it's awesome, any player who complains about the GM fiating a template into a place it normally couldn't go didn't deserve to experience the awesome

[Hiro]

That is true.

If player sdun like it they can go suck a salty sausage.

[the_david]

Hmm, if this was Pathfinder, I'd advice you to take the Vampire template, add it to a Succubus. Add 2 levels of Anti-Paladin and 1 level of Oracle with the Lore mystery and the Sidestep Secret revelation.

Then don't use it. (But in case you want to know, insane Charisma bonus to HP, Saves and AC. And then all of the other stuff that's based off Charisma.) And yes, you could do that in Pathfinder as Outsiders can become Vampires.

For 3.5...

Yochlol?

Edit: Or actually, the Lilitu. Also from Fiendish Codex 1, but:
"A Lilitu is born from the ashes of a slain Succubus. The ritual of transformation and ascension to Lilitu form is different for each Succubus but always involves a decadent and shocking ritual that culminates in the sacrifice of an entire congregation of faithfull worshippers who believe they are worshiping a benign deity."

Oh, how much fun you could have with this. Imagine the ritual coming to an end. One of the Cultists (indirectly) spilled the beans about the rapture/ascension/orgy and the PCs come in just in time to witness the death the cultists. The succubus turns to the PCs to fight them. As the PCs defeat and kill her, she comes back to life, more powerfull than before.

[Segev]

Well...

If she's a succubus, she's all about seduction, control through the same (as well as generic mind control), and corruption of purity through lust.

I'm not sure if it's creepier or less so due to the double-standards involved, but the incubus throwing scantily-clad maidens he's defiled out would be unsettling and cruel, since they're usually who one is here to rescue.

Since we have a succubus, here, have her do the same with youths. The double-standard, however, doesn't get across the "innocence violated" angle, since young men are not stereotypically protecting their virtue. You may have to go extra-creepy and have her take on a motherly aspect.

She keeps young teens and pre-teens around. Make it ambiguous whether she...does anything...with them. The ambiguity will be probably more unsettling than actually comign out and making it clear. But do have her place her overly-sexualized aesthetic on their clothing choices.

They're devoted to her, either calling her "mother" or at least referring to her by a pet name that one might a surrogate mother. "Nana" is a little too childish, but some term of affectionate respect.

Don't have it be JUST particularly young youths. The sliding scale up to even mid-20s or -30s (or equivalents, for longer-lived races) will provide her with minions and definite hints that she's engaging in her expected liasons with at least some of them. Particularly if they're all handsome by at least some standard.

But while it's the grown ones that she lets take an aggressive, guardian stance, it's the younger ones whom she holds to herself as a human shield (while acting like she's doing the motherly "hold my child to protect him" thing). It's the younger ones who throw themselves desperately at the heroes, ineffectually, perhaps, but eager to protect her from their blades and spells. The younger ones who form a barrier that blocks AoEs and Line of Effect to take the hit for her.

All the while, she is aghast at what you're doing to her "little ones."

And is trying to coax the party into helping protect these innocents from the evils of their compatriots, who are doing them harm. She talks them up as heroes whom she'd do...anything...for, to save them.

PErhaps some of the uncomfortably mid-teen youths will encourage this. Hinting they know what it is with an innocent sort of horrifying eagerness. Again, never state clearly that they've...partaken...but it should be very possible and uncomfortably suggested.

Have some of the strapping late-teens and 20-somethings treat her like a beloved sister...as well as a potential lover.

Corrupt all the familial relationships a man or boy can have with a woman.

If you can pull it off, have the heroes meet some of these victims of her Charms before they're taken. Or while they're being seduced but before they disappear.

Innocent and good-hearted lads who are perhaps studying to be priests, or are studious young wizards' apprentices, or are simple farm lads eager to marry their sweetheart (whom they'll have abandoned for this new lovelust).

Younger teens eager to be men, one or two of whom might also discuss their first crush...but in terms that retrospect might indicate was in fact this succubus all along.

She could go after not-so-nice ones, too. The half-orc bandit-chief who is a frequent antagonist, perhaps even a bit on the aggressive masculine threat-to-women end of things, no made less...dominant...in his relationship with her as he is nevertheless a deadly combatant. Perhaps moreso, buffed by her other harem-boy spellcasters.



The question is just HOW creepy you want to get. Because this can start pushing buttons. It is likely to be HIGHLY uncomfortably unsettling and creepy. All while playing fully to type.

[Tvtyrant]

One I did was a vampire who was an ultra urbane butler who hated the sound of heart beats. He had a fixed smile at all times and was very polite as he murdered children to manufest ghosts.

[GolemsVoice]

Have the character use mind-controlled servants to fight your players, and make it clear that these servants are fully aware, yet totally unable to stop themselves.

Or the Succubus could pit her lust-frencied followers against each other, making them do unspeakable things just to win her attention. Let your players find the cells and arenas, full of the worst debauchery imaginable, and let them slowly discover that this was no ordinary torture...

Maybe the Succubus has sleeper agents all over the land (depending on just how powerful she is), so the players will never be fully able to trust anyone. Maybe, at random, people will come to the players and start spouting cryptic warnings or just letting the players know that they are being watched.

[Glorius Nippon]

Well...

If she's a succubus, she's all about seduction, control through the same (as well as generic mind control), and corruption of purity through lust.

I'm not sure if it's creepier or less so due to the double-standards involved, but the incubus throwing scantily-clad maidens he's defiled out would be unsettling and cruel, since they're usually who one is here to rescue.

Since we have a succubus, here, have her do the same with youths. The double-standard, however, doesn't get across the "innocence violated" angle, since young men are not stereotypically protecting their virtue. You may have to go extra-creepy and have her take on a motherly aspect.

She keeps young teens and pre-teens around. Make it ambiguous whether she...does anything...with them. The ambiguity will be probably more unsettling than actually comign out and making it clear. But do have her place her overly-sexualized aesthetic on their clothing choices.

They're devoted to her, either calling her "mother" or at least referring to her by a pet name that one might a surrogate mother. "Nana" is a little too childish, but some term of affectionate respect.

Don't have it be JUST particularly young youths. The sliding scale up to even mid-20s or -30s (or equivalents, for longer-lived races) will provide her with minions and definite hints that she's engaging in her expected liasons with at least some of them. Particularly if they're all handsome by at least some standard.

But while it's the grown ones that she lets take an aggressive, guardian stance, it's the younger ones whom she holds to herself as a human shield (while acting like she's doing the motherly "hold my child to protect him" thing). It's the younger ones who throw themselves desperately at the heroes, ineffectually, perhaps, but eager to protect her from their blades and spells. The younger ones who form a barrier that blocks AoEs and Line of Effect to take the hit for her.

All the while, she is aghast at what you're doing to her "little ones."

And is trying to coax the party into helping protect these innocents from the evils of their compatriots, who are doing them harm. She talks them up as heroes whom she'd do...anything...for, to save them.

PErhaps some of the uncomfortably mid-teen youths will encourage this. Hinting they know what it is with an innocent sort of horrifying eagerness. Again, never state clearly that they've...partaken...but it should be very possible and uncomfortably suggested.

Have some of the strapping late-teens and 20-somethings treat her like a beloved sister...as well as a potential lover.

Corrupt all the familial relationships a man or boy can have with a woman.

If you can pull it off, have the heroes meet some of these victims of her Charms before they're taken. Or while they're being seduced but before they disappear.

Innocent and good-hearted lads who are perhaps studying to be priests, or are studious young wizards' apprentices, or are simple farm lads eager to marry their sweetheart (whom they'll have abandoned for this new lovelust).

Younger teens eager to be men, one or two of whom might also discuss their first crush...but in terms that retrospect might indicate was in fact this succubus all along.

She could go after not-so-nice ones, too. The half-orc bandit-chief who is a frequent antagonist, perhaps even a bit on the aggressive masculine threat-to-women end of things, no made less...dominant...in his relationship with her as he is nevertheless a deadly combatant. Perhaps moreso, buffed by her other harem-boy spellcasters.



The question is just HOW creepy you want to get. Because this can start pushing buttons. It is likely to be HIGHLY uncomfortably unsettling and creepy. All while playing fully to type.


Damn, that sounds like an amazing final dungeon/ fight. Too bad it would get spoiled by aoe builds.

"Well with this many targets I can just keeping cleaving forever!"

[hamishspence]

The question is just HOW creepy you want to get. Because this can start pushing buttons. It is likely to be HIGHLY uncomfortably unsettling and creepy. All while playing fully to type.

Maybe invert it, and give the succubus the "childlike personality traits". A cuddly stuffed toy, which they talk to a lot, for example.

Kind of like a cross between Sabine and Thog or Elan.

[MorgromTheOrc]

I like the idea of her having an army of minions which consists of people she's seduced. And while I also like the innocent child idea maybe have her be an actual child. The PCs walk in her main room to find an innocent but slightly off little girl, she has many adult followers that viciously attack the players, they of course start carving through them like any old minions, likely even if they do feel bad for them for the whole situation(make sure they are a threat so they're forced to kill them if it does bother them that much). And when they've killed about half of them to maybe 75%, have her personality change to incredibly demented like it would be impossible for a child. Suddenly she starts laughing in the voice of a grown woman and snaps her fingers, she now appears to be an adult woman with a fake looking level beauty; and all the "adult" minions that the PCs have been slaughtering... I think you know where I'm going with this. The players will be horrified at how they've been killing little boys and girls(yes I said girls I think you've all been ignoring the possibility of her being bisexual, and if that bothers you then remember she's a demonic monster and some PCs might be bothered more by the dead little girls double standard). Have the remaining ones suddenly cower away and go to her for protection calling her mother or sister while the already slain ones are rose back from the dead as horrible zombies but still obvious children possibly screaming in pain and such as they are again killed or asking the players why they would hurt them. She then starts ripping apart the ones that were still alive and ran to her for protection, she devourers their bodies and souls and then catches flame actually taking on a slightly burnt but still disturbingly attractive appearance as she morphs into the transformed state that you are looking for with the fallen angel/vampire thing.

[Larrx]

Well...

If she's a succubus, she's all about seduction, control through the same (as well as generic mind control), and corruption of purity through lust.

I'm not sure if it's creepier or less so due to the double-standards involved, but the incubus throwing scantily-clad maidens he's defiled out would be unsettling and cruel, since they're usually who one is here to rescue.

Since we have a succubus, here, have her do the same with youths. The double-standard, however, doesn't get across the "innocence violated" angle, since young men are not stereotypically protecting their virtue. You may have to go extra-creepy and have her take on a motherly aspect.

She keeps young teens and pre-teens around. Make it ambiguous whether she...does anything...with them. The ambiguity will be probably more unsettling than actually comign out and making it clear. But do have her place her overly-sexualized aesthetic on their clothing choices.

They're devoted to her, either calling her "mother" or at least referring to her by a pet name that one might a surrogate mother. "Nana" is a little too childish, but some term of affectionate respect.

Don't have it be JUST particularly young youths. The sliding scale up to even mid-20s or -30s (or equivalents, for longer-lived races) will provide her with minions and definite hints that she's engaging in her expected liasons with at least some of them. Particularly if they're all handsome by at least some standard.

But while it's the grown ones that she lets take an aggressive, guardian stance, it's the younger ones whom she holds to herself as a human shield (while acting like she's doing the motherly "hold my child to protect him" thing). It's the younger ones who throw themselves desperately at the heroes, ineffectually, perhaps, but eager to protect her from their blades and spells. The younger ones who form a barrier that blocks AoEs and Line of Effect to take the hit for her.

All the while, she is aghast at what you're doing to her "little ones."

And is trying to coax the party into helping protect these innocents from the evils of their compatriots, who are doing them harm. She talks them up as heroes whom she'd do...anything...for, to save them.

PErhaps some of the uncomfortably mid-teen youths will encourage this. Hinting they know what it is with an innocent sort of horrifying eagerness. Again, never state clearly that they've...partaken...but it should be very possible and uncomfortably suggested.

Have some of the strapping late-teens and 20-somethings treat her like a beloved sister...as well as a potential lover.

Corrupt all the familial relationships a man or boy can have with a woman.

If you can pull it off, have the heroes meet some of these victims of her Charms before they're taken. Or while they're being seduced but before they disappear.

Innocent and good-hearted lads who are perhaps studying to be priests, or are studious young wizards' apprentices, or are simple farm lads eager to marry their sweetheart (whom they'll have abandoned for this new lovelust).

Younger teens eager to be men, one or two of whom might also discuss their first crush...but in terms that retrospect might indicate was in fact this succubus all along.

She could go after not-so-nice ones, too. The half-orc bandit-chief who is a frequent antagonist, perhaps even a bit on the aggressive masculine threat-to-women end of things, no made less...dominant...in his relationship with her as he is nevertheless a deadly combatant. Perhaps moreso, buffed by her other harem-boy spellcasters.



The question is just HOW creepy you want to get. Because this can start pushing buttons. It is likely to be HIGHLY uncomfortably unsettling and creepy. All while playing fully to type.

I made my wife read this and it gave her goose bumps. Well played Sir.

[Crake]

I think you've all been ignoring the possibility of her being bisexual

She's a succubus, she is definitely bisexual :smalltongue: plus there's always change shape to... accomodate the necessary parts.

[goto124]

*searches for relevant OotS strip*

I'm sure it happened in there at some point...

[HyperDunkBarkly]

go for a Drider Succubus and have her RP as the villain from this video.
http://blip.tv/the-cinema-snob/drive-by-the-cinema-snob-6892350

[Segev]

Damn, that sounds like an amazing final dungeon/ fight. Too bad it would get spoiled by aoe builds.

"Well with this many targets I can just keeping cleaving forever!"It would actually be even better against the right kind of PC. If they're hack-and-slash, kill-the-foes-and-don't-worry-about-good-or-right types, the kind that aren't really in this for RP so much as a fighting game, then no, it won't be very effective.

But if they're the kind who care about things like protecting the innocent, and their players are into RPing moral quandaries and ethical dilemmas, this should be very effective against their AoE. So many possibly-innocent target/victims to get in the way of effective use!


Maybe invert it, and give the succubus the "childlike personality traits". A cuddly stuffed toy, which they talk to a lot, for example.

Kind of like a cross between Sabine and Thog or Elan.This seems less creepy in the aspect of the succubus, because the creep factor here would be in the horror at being sexually attracted to a little girl. And players will either not "feel" it (because you can't mind-control them, only their characters), or they'll feel cheated and disgusted. They won't have the horrified torn feelings of their morals combatting this...unholy lust. Because THEY won't feel the latter. Just ire raised by the former.

And if you instead try to illustrate it with grown men as her minions, that just makes the victims less sympathetic. It may be unfair that the men being mind-controlled into it would be blamed for it, but the visceral nature of the sins involved is such that the reaction will be to blame them. And that will not help build the horror so much as undermine it.

By having it be youths, you can tear into the double standard of "a boy is not a virgin" (which normally means "it's not rape if its female on male" by stereotype) while using "children are pure and innocent" at the same time.

Filial devotion of a youth to his mother is also something most people instinctively hold in high esteem. It pains us on some level to harm a mother in front of her son, because of the conflicting roles of "the boy protects the girl" and "the mother protects the child." With boys on the cusp of manhood, the balance of expectations is fairly stressful.

By further corrupting it with these boys' possible...feelings...towards this woman they call "mother," it gets more unsettling because it's a corruption of that bond. Even knowing it's fake, the evocation of it is there.

It doesn't work with the genders inverted, because that just takes on the stereotype of an abusive man making teenaged girls call him "daddy." Which is creepy, but it's not unsettling: it's unambiguous evil that just evokes anger. There may be some horror to knowing what's happening, but it's more... I won't say "comfortable," because it isn't. But more in line with expectations of evil. It's a violation we're braced for, emotionally. And we don't have any level of cognitive dissonance thanks to the double standard of gender stereotypes: the girls are victims of the evil incubus.

With a succubus and youths of varying ages, there's a coginitive dissonance on a visceral level, thanks to the double-standard regarding the expected willingness of the participants. Again, stereotypes. They're powerful, even if you don't like them. Perhaps especially if you don't like them. You can KNOW that it's unambiguous, but there's just that unsettling cognitive dissonance, anyway.

[atemu1234]

This seems less creepy in the aspect of the succubus, because the creep factor here would be in the horror at being sexually attracted to a little girl. And players will either not "feel" it (because you can't mind-control them, only their characters), or they'll feel cheated and disgusted. They won't have the horrified torn feelings of their morals combatting this...unholy lust. Because THEY won't feel the latter. Just ire raised by the former.

And if you instead try to illustrate it with grown men as her minions, that just makes the victims less sympathetic. It may be unfair that the men being mind-controlled into it would be blamed for it, but the visceral nature of the sins involved is such that the reaction will be to blame them. And that will not help build the horror so much as undermine it.

By having it be youths, you can tear into the double standard of "a boy is not a virgin" (which normally means "it's not rape if its female on male" by stereotype) while using "children are pure and innocent" at the same time.

Filial devotion of a youth to his mother is also something most people instinctively hold in high esteem. It pains us on some level to harm a mother in front of her son, because of the conflicting roles of "the boy protects the girl" and "the mother protects the child." With boys on the cusp of manhood, the balance of expectations is fairly stressful.

By further corrupting it with these boys' possible...feelings...towards this woman they call "mother," it gets more unsettling because it's a corruption of that bond. Even knowing it's fake, the evocation of it is there.

It doesn't work with the genders inverted, because that just takes on the stereotype of an abusive man making teenaged girls call him "daddy." Which is creepy, but it's not unsettling: it's unambiguous evil that just evokes anger. There may be some horror to knowing what's happening, but it's more... I won't say "comfortable," because it isn't. But more in line with expectations of evil. It's a violation we're braced for, emotionally. And we don't have any level of cognitive dissonance thanks to the double standard of gender stereotypes: the girls are victims of the evil incubus.

With a succubus and youths of varying ages, there's a coginitive dissonance on a visceral level, thanks to the double-standard regarding the expected willingness of the participants. Again, stereotypes. They're powerful, even if you don't like them. Perhaps especially if you don't like them. You can KNOW that it's unambiguous, but there's just that unsettling cognitive dissonance, anyway.

This is everything I could've said and more. I do love the idea.

[Sam K]

Well played, Segev!

Here's a way to take the creepy thing one step further: what if children results from some of her... unions? Actually, what if there are quite alot of children. Sure, they would be half-fiends, or tieflings, but still... lots of babies and little kids running around in her temple. Some adventurers may be ok with cutting down some cultists that may or may not be mind controlled, but most would show atleast some hesitation in AoEing a room full of children. And when those kids try to get between the adventurers and their target, shouting "Stop hurting mommy!" Well, that there is should unsettle most sane people. After all, those kids are protecting their parents! And if you manage to kill the BBEG without hurting the kids, you now have a bunch of traumatized children that most orphanages won't touch.

Me, I'd pick a kid up, use it as a club, and see if "half-fiend baby" overcomes the succubus damage reduction. That's just me though.

[dantiesilva]

I personally enjoy using lady fierna (think that's how you spell it) from the fourth layer of hell. I make it so the villain of the game was forced into her services and is trying to get free. The pcs become his chess pieces, while she corrupts all that is good in the world trying to corrupt their views. Either way she wins.

They kill who they think is the main villain and no one can hold her in check. They kill the good organizations she pits against them she is doing her work of eliminating good in the world. When I do a cut scene I describe the palace and chess board, but never go into much detail about her. And make sure she is never named. The players are afraid to sleep now out of fear something will attack them or they will be caught in an illusion.