Shepherd of Fire [A Night Below] minor spoilers and a wildshape question

[Keld Denar]

So, my group finally finished book 2 of A Night Below and have moved on to book 3. In hunting for the Flux Point, they are drawn to the fire crater. They've already seen fire giant patrols, so they know a bit of what they are going for. I've decided to deviate from the book (as any good DM should) and change the chieftain to a druid, reverently referred to as the Shepherd of Fire (queue A7F song) and the lieutenant to a more brutish type giant (something with Barbarian and 3 Mountains feat).

So anyway, my question comes to this. As a Fire Giant15/Druid8, the Shepherd of Fire (a normally large creature) has access to the Large Wildshape ability. Are there any rules that change how WS normally affects non-medium sized creatures? I think it would be awkward if a large giant can't actually WS into a large animal until 8th level. One would think that a large creature would gain Huge WS or such. I dunno, I couldn't find any rules in the druid chapter or the Alternate Form special ability, so I'm not sure.

Thoughts on large druids in general and the Shepherd of Fire in specifics? I'm almost considering not even having him WS. I'll probably just tool him up with Power Attack like all of the other fire giants, apply a BC spell at the start of the fight, cast Spikes on his darkwood greatclub (greatestclub?) and wade into melee. I don't think there are too many animal forms accessable by an 8th level druid that'll have a Str higher than 32 who get 2:1 PA and 1.5x Str with 3d8+25ish base damage. The party Duskblade might have met his match...

[eggynack]

No, there isn't a provision allowing larger than medium creatures access to larger forms faster than their medium or small counterparts. That'd get kinda silly in both directions, allowing large creatures access to dire tortoise form really early, and keeping small creatures from such forms completely, starting them below medium.

As for combat stuff, I'd skip spikes in favor of shillelagh, using a quarterstaff with it if you don't think greatclub is within its targeting restrictions. On forms specifically, you should definitely be picking up fangshields druid substitution levels from champions of valor, at least the level which grants hands, because it'd allow two handing in all forms, and comes at no cost. I'm not even sure that you can get 31 strength at that point, but you can pick up some good special abilities like pounce to make up for that loss somewhat.

[Bronk]

There is a feat in Masters of the Wild called 'Proportionate Wild Shape' that does what you want.

[Callin]

The first time my group ran into there we got wrecked by the final group and had to retreat. We healed up and teleported back in 2 groups with 1 group rolling horribly and was sent to a like location. So its just me as a Theurge 3 (3rd party class)/ Anima Mage 5, who had an Eidelon, and a Bard 8. Just us and didnt know the other group wasnt showing up so we attacked according to plan. We wrecked em this time in 3 rounds, save or suck for the win. Did greater bestow curse then vestige metamagic persistant eastern mysteries wrack on the big caster giant.

So careful with how much you change. Thats all. It could be fine or it could wreck the group. Only you know this.

[Keld Denar]

I dunno if I want to give the Shepherd pounce. He can pretty much kill any other PC other than the dwarven duskblade in one full attack. Giving him pounce would mean very bad things.

The group is about medium op, but not really high op. They do pretty well. I'm gonna guess there will be a lot of Solid Fogs and Walls of Force in this fight to single out the giants 1 at a time. Normally, they really like Black Tentacles for BC, but most of these giants have a grapple mod in the low 30s.

Why Shillelagh? 2 sizes larger from 1d8 is 3d6. 1 size larger from 2d8 is 3d8. Plus, spikes adds another +12 (8 druid levels + practiced spellcaster) to damage. Thats a difference of 13.5 damage average. The Duskblade has about 95 HP before he channels Vamp Touch, so I think he can handle it. I want this fight to be very hard. I'd prefer if the party parleys, but I've never forced them to do anything. I told them that once they cross over into book 3, things are going to start getting MUCH harder. They are prepared.

[eggynack]

I dunno if I want to give the Shepherd pounce. He can pretty much kill any other PC other than the dwarven duskblade in one full attack. Giving him pounce would mean very bad things.
Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be pounce. That'said just the likely best thing you're getting. Wild shape has lotsa stuff, and with fangshields, all of those things will include hands.



Why Shillelagh? 2 sizes larger from 1d8 is 3d6. 1 size larger from 2d8 is 3d8. Plus, spikes adds another +12 (8 druid levels + practiced spellcaster) to damage. Thats a difference of 13.5 damage average.
Few reasons. Spell level's probably the biggest, as first level spells are plentiful at 8th in a way that thirds aren't. You can do a lot with an extra third. Duration could be potentially relevant, depending on the structure of the fight.

Beyond that, you're overestimating the difference in damage some. Spikes caps at +10, and does not feature a size increase. Moreover, you may be able to use shillelagh on a greatclub. Thus, the damage of spikes would more correctly be expressed as a +12, while shillelagh is a +10. So, 2 extra damage, along with a +1 to hit and the bette rchance of crits. A decent difference, but not worth what you'really losing.

[Callin]

And it does get much harder. Honestly its a Flux point and it should be a tough fight to get.

[Keld Denar]

It's an NPC who will be unlikely to survive more than 1 encounter. Even if he doesn't die by WSs into something small and mobile and hiding in the lava until the party leaves, they are unlikely to ever encounter him again. So spell level doesn't make much difference.

On the other hand, I was misremembering Spikes. I thought it had a size increase. Hmmmm, maybe Shillelagh would be better. Longer duration for prebuffage while the party is encountering the guard giants and hellhounds.

I don't want trolls in this encounter. 1) I've already done trolls up the tunnel, and 2) trolls + fire giants seems an awkward combo, given the limits on regeneration.

Any thoughts on what else to do? Or just more giants?

[eggynack]

It's an NPC who will be unlikely to survive more than 1 encounter. Even if he doesn't die by WSs into something small and mobile and hiding in the lava until the party leaves, they are unlikely to ever encounter him again. So spell level doesn't make much difference.

It's still relevant. If you don't have the combat actions to use those slots actively, they can be used for pretty much actionless effects like heart of water, primal instincts, or alter fortune. Notably, these are all spells that are about as useful on a hulking giant as they are on a character focused on casting spells all over the place.