Question about Sha'ir spells

[Jermz]

The Sha'ir is a class that I've always loved, mainly due to its flavour, and I recently saw that it was converted via Dragon Magazine to a 3.5 variant. I've been asked to create a 7th-level DMPC for my group and I thought about building a Sha'ir.

I've been going over the class in Dragon Compendium and I've noticed something strange. It's probably not an oversight, but I figured I'd ask anyway. At 7th level, the Sha'ir can cast one fourth-level spell. However, in the list of spells known, he doesn't pick up this spell slot until one level later, at 8th level. This actually is a pattern, with the Sha'ir picking up the spell slot one level before it actually becomes 'known' to him.

Is this intentional, or simply a class oversight?

[Troacctid]

Probably intentional. Remember that a Sha'ir doesn't have to know a spell to cast it--it's just faster to retrieve it if you do.

[Psyren]

Correct, this is intentional. It means that a Sha'ir will most likely have to prepare their most powerful spells out of combat, whereas lesser spells they have gained some measure of facility with can even be prepared mid-fight if needed.

A good way to make the Sha'ir easier to use is to give them the PF Arcanist casting mechanic - i.e. they still have to send their gen to get a spell, but that one spell can be used multiple times instead of the gen needing to retrieve multiple copies. That way if your gen fails or gets detained while trying to get something else, you at least have your existing spells to try and make a go of it.

[Jermz]

Yeah, it seemed too consistent to be intentional, thanks for the confirmation Psyren. I'll run the archivist idea by the DM, though I'm not too worried about the gen failing thanks to the massive +20 diplomacy check (10 ranks + 3 cha + 3 skill focus + 2 negotiator + 2 bluff synergy) - without magic items or shenanigans. Having multiple copies is pretty good, though.

[Chronos]

Yeah, if you're not familiar with the Sha'ir 's mechanics, you really need to read over their entry a bunch of times, because they're pretty weird, and work differently from all other D&D casters.

[Psyren]

In case it helps, I summarized them (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?247148-sha-ir&p=13429667&viewfull=1#post13429667) a few years back. (Note that their status as divine casters can be a point of contention.)

There's also some more discussion regarding other ambiguous bits of the class.

[Renen]

(Note that their status as divine casters can be a point of contention.)


I dont see why

[Psyren]

The counter-argument - which again, for the record, I do not support - states that their fluff description says things like "the sha'ir's arcane traditions" and "superior to other arcane casters"; this suggests they were intended to be arcane.

My response to those arguments is twofold: (a) the divine spells are described as being just that, divine, every time they are mentioned in the Sha'ir entry; and (b) being a divine caster is not mutually exclusive with being an arcane one, as other classes (such as another, albeit much weaker class from that same book - namely, the Savant - can attest to.) So even if you take the two statements in the first paragraph to mean they were intended to be arcane, that does not mean they were not intended to be divine casters too.

Finally - Curmudgeon had a great post somewhere explaining why, even if you count them as both, it doesn't mean they get to do dual-advance from theurges like MT.

[Renen]

Yeh i agree on all points. Including the double advancing :D

[Chronos]

They can, however, qualify for Mystic Theurge early, and combine Sha'ir with a single-level dip in any other casting class.

For lulz, take a Sha'ir/Shadowcaster/Mystic Theurge. Which class are you advancing with which side? I dunno.

[Psyren]

My favorite use for them is to pair with Warlock and jump into both Eldtritch Theurge and Eldritch Disciple. For the latter you either need a Sacred Exorcist dip or to use the ED adaptation that drops Turn Undead.

There's tons of synergy too - warlock gives you plenty to do while your gen is out bargaining, you are Cha-SAD, and flavor-wise the "ancestor" that gave you warlocky goodness (or not-so-goodness) can easily be an Efreet or Marid.