Gestalt Build - Advice Welcome

[Macabros]

Alright so this will be obviously a Gestalt build. It also uses 3.5 Material and Flaws. Also we are using a few house rules, like allowing the Martial Artist and MoMS to stack even if they both replace perfect self.

Now the classes involved are Barbarian and Monk, now I know what you are thinking "You cannot have a Barbarian Monk Gestalt, one is Any Lawful and one is Any Non-Lawful alignments." Well you are right. Which is why I am using Archetypes.

Monk is using the Master of Many Styles (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/master-of-many-styles) Archetype as well as the Martial Artist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/martial-artist) to remove Alignment issues.

Barbarian is using a 3rd party from 4 winds fantasy gaming called the Serene Barbarian (Link Here) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/4-winds-fantasy-gaming---barbarian-archetypes/serene-barbarian)

Now as you can see, those compliment one another very well.

My race is a Kasatha (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/advanced-races-11-20-rp/kasatha-20-rp)(Because they are basically made to be Monks, and their lore make them good Barbarians.)
+2 Wis, +2 Dex +2 Dodge Bonus are the big highlights as this is a +4 to AC total.

I rolled these dice in front of my DM and after checking my dice they are approved.
Str: 14
Dex: 18 +2 [20]
Con: 14
Int: 15 +1 [16]
Wis: 18 +2 [20]
Cha: 12
This makes my starting AC 10+5+5+2=22 Touch AC Normally. With Serenity it becomes 10+7+7+2=26
All Good Saves d12 HD, 4+Int Skills

1rst Level Feat: Multiweapon Fighting
Flaw Feat (Yes we use them): Weapon Finesse (Unarmed Strike is effected by it)
Monk Bonus Style Feat: Pummeling Style
Monk Bonus Style Feat: Boar Style
3rd Level Feat: Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
5th Level Fear: Slashing Grace

Serenity does trigger Fatigue.
However, Martial Artist Monk is immune to Fatigue at level 5.

Starting Wealth at Level 5 is 10,500 GP
I am not sure what to invest my money into since I do not need Armor or Weapons.
I know I should take a Belt and Headband to increase Wis and Dex but I am not wanting to shoe horn myself into just damage dealer with no way out of combat to be effective, or just a speed boxer, though I like that idea.

I may for 5th level on Monk side take Fist of the Forest (Which is a Barbarian Monk fusion. That adds another +2 to his AC and takes his speed from 50 to 60 a round, which is nice since it specifically says it stacks with the other classes. Feral Trance stacks with Serenity (If you have the ability to enter a rage, you can do so while in a feral trance, using your increased Constitution score to determine the duration of both effects.)(another +4 to Dex, and a specifically called out +2 on damage rolls for unarmed strikes) and a free bite attack 1d6+Str and can do this twice a day if I took it to level 3 PRC.

Yes it comes with him having to live a little bit like an animal but not more then a normal adventurer might.

Traits may focus on getting a few skills I dont have, like Knowledge Skills or Sleight of Hand and something else.
Heavy Hitter grants a +1 to unarmed damage for example.

Any Advice? Also... Is that good damage output for a 5th level Gestalt?

[defiantdan]

Are you going for many attacks a round? you grabbed multiweapon fighting. I'm not sure why you want to crank up your ac so high when the rest of your attack class features have no synergy. Multiple attacks require one of two things. Reach or pounce. You don't seem to have either. You might want to consider using normal 3.5 barbarian for the alternate class feature of pounce. Also mix in some psychic warrior to boost ac, get some mad natural attacks, some teleportation and maybe metamorphosis. Talashora already makes it easy to multiclass monk and psionics. Gestalt the other half to with barbarian, your missed psychic warrior levels and the prestige classes you want.

[Macabros]

Well pounce would be good, but I was actually thinking of maybe shifting things around and taking Pummeling Charge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/pummeling-charge-combat), perhaps as a Flaw feat, because it works like as Pounce for a Pummeling Style attack.

But the loss of 10 feet off my movement speed is nothing huge so using the 3.5 Spirit Lion Totem should be fine even with PF version, as it still has what you replace to function.

[Vhaidara]

5th Level Fear: Slashing Grace

I don't believe this works on unarmed strike, since you deal bludgeoning damage.

[Macabros]

I don't believe this works on unarmed strike, since you deal bludgeoning damage.
That is what Boar Style is for, it makes Unarmed Strikes deal slashing damage.

[defiantdan]

feats you can add in if possible is snap kick and flying kick for more damage on charges and extra attacks. Things to spend money on would be items that increase size, if you have umd get wands of mighty wallop and blood wind. Getting Girralon's blessing permanacied. alternate modes of movement(ex. flight). Scout's headband so you can see better. A belt of battle is always a must on any character. The things you should spend your money on should mostly be how to over come the obstacles of being a mundane fighter. What if your opponent is flying, concealed, underground, teleported away, out numbers you, doesn't have to hit your ac or your saves, and ect.

[Macabros]

feats you can add in if possible is snap kick and flying kick for more damage on charges and extra attacks. Things to spend money on would be items that increase size, if you have umd get wands of mighty wallop and blood wind. Getting Girralon's blessing permanacied. alternate modes of movement(ex. flight). Scout's headband so you can see better. A belt of battle is always a must on any character. The things you should spend your money on should mostly be how to over come the obstacles of being a mundane fighter. What if your opponent is flying, concealed, underground, teleported away, out numbers you, doesn't have to hit your ac or your saves, and ect.

Its odd I normally hear that you want static bonuses rather then larger dice to roll.
Body Wrap of Mighty Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/body-wrap-of-mighty-strikes)
Amulet of Mighty Fist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amulet-of-mighty-fists)
10,000 for a permanent Greater Magic Fang at a +3 to hit and damage.

But your saying I need to jump into Greater Mighty Wallop territory and jump my size from medium to huge or colossal right?

[Macabros]

feats you can add in if possible is snap kick and flying kick for more damage on charges and extra attacks. Things to spend money on would be items that increase size, if you have umd get wands of mighty wallop and blood wind. Getting Girralon's blessing permanacied. alternate modes of movement(ex. flight). Scout's headband so you can see better. A belt of battle is always a must on any character. The things you should spend your money on should mostly be how to over come the obstacles of being a mundane fighter. What if your opponent is flying, concealed, underground, teleported away, out numbers you, doesn't have to hit your ac or your saves, and ect.
See you did an Edit there.
Unfortunately a martial character cannot always adapt for all those things, which is why we have spell casters to help us out.

[defiantdan]

for monks and barbarians and pretty much any melee character out there worth his chops wants size. Size increases make all your hits, hit really really hard. Not only that the space you threaten is basically the only battelfield control they have. bad guys can't or won't want to hit anyone else if it means moving through a space you will hit them in. Sure tumble and stuff gets around it but these are the woes of being a mundane. So most want to make their initiative high, charge, hit hard and often. The size also helps with things like grappling, bullrushing and sundering. If you go the psychic warrior (or ardent) route with your monk levels it helps add some flexibility to your character. With natural and unarmed attacks you will have a wicked attack routine to do on a pounce and each one will hit like frieght trains if you you have the size to go with it. You will be MAD. But this can be mitigated with use of polymorph/metamorphosis.

The other aspect is it does not seem like you are built for one major attack. Another aspect of melee is to decide if you want to two hander or multiple attacks. if you are a two hander. make it big, make it reach and power attack into oblivion. if you go multi attack route. get lots, more is better. if possible find icing (sneak attacks, smites and such). You don't really care if you hit all the time.

[Macabros]

The way it works right now is I get 4 attacks every full attack at level 1-6, which raises it to five attacks a round. My dice is currently a d8 on each unarmed strike. I am throwing a static +6 with it without using Rage/Serenity (+4 Dex and +4 Wis) or Feral Trance (+4 Dex) (Stacks with Rage). (Serenity and Feral Trance gives a +8 to Dex (+4 to hit and damage) and a +2 to Unarmed Damage)
So on average I am rolling an 11 each hit, four times in a row I can on average roll a 44 damage on a full attack, of course I could roll as low as 28 damage on a roll or as high as 56 in a single round. (At level 5 this is basically a one round kill for almost every opponent). Pummeling Style allows me to count all my attacks as 1 attack if I full attack. However it also comes with the big bonus of if I roll a crit I confirm it once, and then it multiplies the total number of my attack by x2 my multiplier for unarmed attack.

So thats a 44 turning into a 88 on average if I confirm 1 crit out of four attacks.

With Improved Two-Weapon Fighting I pick up 1 additional attack, so I am at that point throwing 6 punches a round after level 6. Is that enough hits?

I am MAD but not horribly I focus on almost inclusively Dex and Wis, Dex for To Hit and Damage rolls, Wis for AC, Will Saves, Perception Check, Sense Motive, and so forth.

[(Un)Inspired]

How do you deal with fly enemies ? Or enemies at range?

[defiantdan]

The way it works right now is I get 4 attacks every full attack at level 1-6, which raises it to five attacks a round. My dice is currently a d8 on each unarmed strike. I am throwing a static +6 with it without using Rage/Serenity (+4 Dex and +4 Wis) or Feral Trance (+4 Dex) (Stacks with Rage). (Serenity and Feral Trance gives a +8 to Dex (+4 to hit and damage) and a +2 to Unarmed Damage)
So on average I am rolling an 11 each hit, four times in a row I can on average roll a 44 damage on a full attack, of course I could roll as low as 28 damage on a roll or as high as 56 in a single round. (At level 5 this is basically a one round kill for almost every opponent). Pummeling Style allows me to count all my attacks as 1 attack if I full attack. However it also comes with the big bonus of if I roll a crit I confirm it once, and then it multiplies the total number of my attack by x2 my multiplier for unarmed attack.

So thats a 44 turning into a 88 on average if I confirm 1 crit out of four attacks.

With Improved Two-Weapon Fighting I pick up 1 additional attack, so I am at that point throwing 6 punches a round after level 6. Is that enough hits?

I am MAD but not horribly I focus on almost inclusively Dex and Wis, Dex for To Hit and Damage rolls, Wis for AC, Will Saves, Perception Check, Sense Motive, and so forth.

Sadly I just read the errata on pummeling strike. Doesn't work with natural attacks :(. Though it does seem like you are going for a pathfinder variation on the "king of smack". do a read up on that build it might help you more in achieving the big mean monk punchs you are looking for. Also I should ask what kind of optimization ceiling are you looking at hitting? Like how much damage is too much for you and your group in one attack routine?

[Macabros]

How do you deal with fly enemies ? Or enemies at range?

Well Kasatha are counted as running for jump checks, so maybe I could jump at flying enemies and use Pummeling Style to deal a single massive punch while in the air.

Enemies at Range, Pounce allows me to move my movement speed and attack, so 50 feet.
If I had too I could make a double move action to move 100 feet in a round, but if I spend my round running I could run up to 200 feet at that point I think I can then pounce the opponent next turn, since most creatures have a 30 feet movement speed, putting them in range


As for too much damage and such. Our group is small only three players, and I want to be able to handle a lot of the PF AP or Modules that we will be running through, I know I have read reviews of things like City of the Golden Death which say it is a near TPK run, or some who I assume are more optimized have had no problem except at the last battle. Since I tend to be the one doing optimization I tend to need to be able to throw a lot of damage to make up for so little amount of players.

[defiantdan]

How do you deal with fly enemies ? Or enemies at range?

Whenever I play a mundane I always ask myself. "Can I beat a pixie with this character?" if I can't then I buy the stuff I need so I can beat him.

[Macabros]

Whenever I play a mundane I always ask myself. "Can I beat a pixie with this character?" if I can't then I buy the stuff I need so I can beat him.

View of the Spirit World (same ACF set up as Pounce) allows me to see Invisible foes for a round or two.

[(Un)Inspired]

Well Kasatha are counted as running for jump checks, so maybe I could jump at flying enemies and use Pummeling Style to deal a single massive punch while in the air.

Enemies at Range, Pounce allows me to move my movement speed and attack, so 50 feet.
If I had too I could make a double move action to move 100 feet in a round, but if I spend my round running I could run up to 200 feet at that point I think I can then pounce the opponent next turn, since most creatures have a 30 feet movement speed, putting them in range.

How high can you get with those jump checks? At 5th level flight is pretty common (3rd level spells and all that jazz).

[defiantdan]

View of the Spirit World (same ACF set up as Pounce) allows me to see Invisible foes for a round or two.

just buy a scout's headband from the MIC. pretty much solves all your sight problems cheap. Torch bug paste is excellent and non magical. The Shax's handy haversack thread is full of useful stuff a mundane character should have.

[Macabros]

How high can you get with those jump checks? At 5th level flight is pretty common (3rd level spells and all that jazz).

I am not quite sure, the table I found seems to imply no one is can jump very high.
Things like to jump 1 foot is a DC of 4 with a +4 for each additional foot.
My Acrobatics skill is +13 if I rolled an 19 on the die I could jump 8 feet into the air by this logic but I am not sure I am reading the rules right.
If I rolled a 20, I would have something close to a 11 foot jump again following what I read, but I am not sure.

[(Un)Inspired]

I am not quite sure, the table I found seems to imply no one is can jump very high.
Things like to jump 1 foot is a DC of 4 with a +4 for each additional foot.
My Acrobatics skill is +13 if I rolled an 19 on the die I could jump 8 feet into the air by this logic but I am not sure I am reading the rules right.
If I rolled a 20, I would have something close to a 11 foot jump again following what I read, but I am not sure.

I think that's right. I would look into a means of attacking at range or being able to fly.

[Macabros]

I think that's right. I would look into a means of attacking at range or being able to fly.
I might have to dip into Ranger then, it has a Kasatha Archetype that allows him to Duel Wield Bows. Or dip Bolt Ace and pick up the Great Crossbow from Races of Stone and use that.

Also sorry my jumps would be 10 ft on a 19 on the die, but a near 13 foot jump with a 20.