Primitive D&D

[Trasilor]

I am thinking about running a game set in like 10,000 B.C. Essentially a stone age game.

Now, mundane things are easy to handle. From stone and bone weapons to hide armor. But how would you handle magic?

My thinking is magic would be raw and untamed at best. The concept of a wizard (or any INT based caster) would be unheard of and sorcerers should have some type of 'over power/under power' roll (sometimes too much, sometimes too little, sometimes just right).

Is the a supplement which outlines how to do this? Have any of you played such a game? How did it fair? Any help would be appreciated.

[Doc_Maynot]

In my setting I have an era like that, I limit the non-mundane class options to Incarnum, Druids, Sha'irs, Truespeech, Binding, and the Chaos Mage class from Mongoose Publishing. However, I allow them to attempt to refluff anything short of Cleric, Wizard, Arcanist, Psions, and Erudites. (Just due to how those classes came to be in my setting)

[Flickerdart]

The first depictions of gods date as far back as 10,200 BC, with totemism going as far back as 70,000 BC. So there's plenty of room for both clerical and druidic magic.

Considering that sorcerers claim supernatural ancestry, this is a perfect time to actually show its roots. Perhaps sorcery is only available to those who either descend from dragons (Half-Dragons or the dragonblooded races) or consort with one. Wizards would use alternate spellbooks from Complete Arcane (possibly drastically reducing the practical size of a spellbook, since etched bones or totems are much bulkier than paper). I wouldn't ban either class or try to mess with their casting mechanics.

[Judge_Worm]

I've ran or played in a couple primitive type games (including my current one).

Generally regarding magic the best way I've ever dealt with it was to scratch off all arcane spells above level 4. Casters still get those spell slots, but because there aren't libraries full of arcane lore and magical study is still in its infancy there just aren't spells to fill them with. Players then were limited (not really) in how to gain spells. Their choices were to invent the spell themselves (Spellcraft DC's aren't arbitrary pre-epic), find a tablet or other magical object to rip the spell from, or (and this will probably be their goto solution if your players are like mine) learn it from someone else. There are wide range of creatures to learn spells from, dragons that accept payment in gold or items, fey that accept payment in tasks or favors, older arcanists that don't want all they worked for to be lost when they die, and even outsiders who want to sway a character to their cause.

[Warlocknthewind]

You want the Frostburn suppliment. Includes everything you need for prehistory, or an ice age era, like Neanderthal and lists of gear which are appropriate.

I would nix sorcerers, druids, clerics, and wizards. Magic hasn't been in practice for enough time to be anything that substantial for humainoids. For what spellcaating this is (who I'd say mostly consist of Bards and respective variant) replace scrolls and other trigger items with Skull Talismans (also from frostburn).

The problem I have run into is that roughly 10,000 BC, there weren't homo-sapiens (species of humans we are). There were Neanderthal, and Cro Magnon, and I am terrible at homebrewing races. (We're Cro Magnons who bred out Neanderthal)

I would make them something like a polar opposite , +2int,+2dex,-2str,-2ha (cause con penalties shouldn't/couldn't exist), with proficincies, and some skill bonuses. No cold weather adaption, they were plainsfolk, and migrated when things got cold.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Warlocknthewind
The problem I have run into is that roughly 10,000 BC, there weren't homo-sapiens (species of humans we are). There were Neanderthal, and Cro Magnon...

Not so. Homo sapiens appeared roughly 200,000 years ago, with anatomically modern humans (AMH) appearing very roughly 50,000 years ago.

"Cro-Magnon" is an older term for AMH in Europe, and has no real taxonomic validity. (But if you really want to use the term, some Cro-Magnon specimens have been dated older than 40,000 years.)


Originally Posted by Warlocknthewind
I would nix sorcerers, druids, clerics, and wizards. Magic hasn't been in practice for enough time to be anything that substantial for humainoids.

It's really up to the OP to decide how long magic has been "in practice" in his setting. The OP has ruled out wizards, but there's no reason druids or clerics couldn't be adapted.


Originally Posted by Trasilor
Is the[re] a supplement which outlines how to do this? Have any of you played such a game? How did it [fare]? Any help would be appreciated.

There are a few, of which Dreamtime (http://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=4580) looks the most interesting, although I haven't played it myself. You might also look at Lost Prehistorica (http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Prehistorica-Sourcebook-David-Woodrum/dp/0974664510).

If you're willing to do a little background reading, I'd recommend Europe Before Rome (http://www.amazon.com/Europe-before-Rome-Site---Site/dp/0199914702/), which is an excellent introduction to Europe from the Pleistocene through preclassical societies. It's focused on the archaeology of significant sites, but very readable and provides an outstanding overview of the development of AMH on the continent. You could set your campaign in Doggerland. :smalltongue:

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[Trasilor]

All,

Thanks for the ideas. I really didn't think about arcanists learning from other species - that is an interesting idea.

I was ruling out wizards (and possibly clerics) due to their casting. My thinking was casting should be raw and untamed. For example, the sorcerer would need to roll some sort of spell craft/concentration check when casting a spell to prevent magical overload. When they overload they either take damage or hurt themselves in such a way to prevent further casting. What people don't have are libraries full of arcane texts which.

I like the idea of limiting to 3rd level spell - afterwich they must learn from another entity.

I will definitely check out Frostburn.

[Flickerdart]

My thinking was casting should be raw and untamed. For example, the sorcerer would need to roll some sort of spell craft/concentration check when casting a spell to prevent magical overload. When they overload they either take damage or hurt themselves in such a way to prevent further casting.
Check out the Wilder's wild surge - it might be the sort of thing you're looking for, just adapted for arcane spells. Also take a look at Wild Mage.

However, I would strongly recommend not using random failure mechanics - they are incredibly frustrating to actually play, especially in D&D where it might be 15-20 minutes before it's your turn again. If you want magic to be unpredictable, do something that still lets characters contribute. For instance, a sorcerer might roll a 1d4 at the start of his turn, and the result is the highest level of spell he can use. And then at later levels, it scales higher. Or he casts much like a Crusader - at the beginning of every combat he randomly gains some of his spells known, and can't cast any different ones until those are expended or he spends an action refreshing.

Both of these make magic more "raw and untamed" without punishing players for picking the class.

[dascarletm]

I would drop all casting classes and replace them with psionics (fluffed to be the same as sorcerers). You could add a mechanic that is similar to the wild mage, but instead adds/subtracts PP augmentation (without using PP).

Add totemists to replace druids, and possibly put in a shifter ranger variant for that niche.

replacing the cleric.... hrm let's see... I'm drawing a blank. You could keep them as is.


The biggest part would be in the descriptions of everything.

If you place a magic item make sure to fluff it up appropriately.

[Tvtyrant]

If you are willing to crib off of Pathfiinder there is the Words of Power supplement for free online. It effectively pulls casters down to tier 3, and if you only allow spontaneous casters it has a much less mechanical feeling to it. Then just keep Druids and Clerics much the same and you have an easy fix.