Totemist - Barbarian

[Kesnit]

After taking recommendations from people yesterday, I decided to change my concept from a Totemist/Unarmed Swordsage to a Totemist/Barbarian.

Build
Silverbrow Human Spirit Lion Totem Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Totemist 7

Abilities (with gear)
STR 22
DEX 18
CON 22
INT 15
WIS 17
CHA 15

Feats
1 - Improved Unarmed Strike
1 (Bonus) - Shape Soulmeld (Thunderstep Boots)
3 - Multiattack Extra Rage
6 - Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed)
9 - Superior Unarmed Strike

Gear

Our budget is 77000 gold.

+2 Chain Shirt of Quickness
+1 Lesser Soulbound +2 Necklace of Natural Attacks / Natural Armor +2
Belt of STR +3/CON +4
Lesser Cloak of Soulbound Resistance +1 / Deflection +1
Lesser Crystal of Energy Assault (Acid)
Lesser Demolition Crystal
Lesser Truedeath Crystal
Lesser Crystal of Mind Cloaking


So... Comments? Critiques? Advice for what else to buy (or better ways to spend my overall budget)? I'm not interested in Totem Rager, since it slows down the chakra and essentia advancement.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Usually, Totemist/barbarians head into totem rager.

[Seerow]

3 feats into gaining unarmed strike damage seems a bit much. Is there any particular reason why you don't just dip into Monk or Swordsage to get those?

Also silverbrow human, so I assume you are planning to grab the Dragon soulmelds from the web article? If not be sure to look into those.

I can't imagine doing Barbarian 2 without taking Extra Rage. 1/day rage is just really sad unless you're in a campaign where you only see 1-2 encounters a day most of the time.

I'm also not sure why you don't like the Totem Rager. Yes you lose 2 levels of totemist progression. In exchange you gain a big chunk of Essence while raging. But whatever floats your boat.

[Flickerdart]

3 feats into gaining unarmed strike damage seems a bit much. Is there any particular reason why you don't just dip into Monk or Swordsage to get those?
If he's concerned with meldshaping progression, it sort of makes sense to spend two feats on IUS/SUS rather than dip into Swordsage (plus it doesn't impact his BAB, HP, etc).

[sakuuya]

I know you said you don't want to do Totem Rager, but a one-level dip (which will lose you a meldshaping level, unfortunately) gives you a lot of bang for your buck. Cobalt Rage is a good feat anyhow, but getting extra essentia to pump it up while raging is even better.

[Red Fel]

Usually, Totemist/barbarians head into totem rager.

Except that Totem Rager is too little totem, and too little rager, and the OP said he didn't want it.


3 feats into gaining unarmed strike damage seems a bit much. Is there any particular reason why you don't just dip into Monk or Swordsage to get those?

Actually, this position I understand. The problem is that a dip of Monk or Swordsage will get you IUS, but the dip alone won't get you the progression. And SUS interacts oddly if you have Monk/Swordsage levels, as opposed to if you don't. Also, between Monk and Barbarian there's a mandatory alignment shift. So I get that.


Also silverbrow human, so I assume you are planning to grab the Dragon soulmelds from the web article? If not be sure to look into those.

This came up in the other thread, and it's a good idea. There are also other feats for Dragonblooded races, if you're interested and not feat-starved; in particular, there's one that gives you an actual (non-Soulmeld) tail attack, and a chain that gives you flight. Of course, if you planned to get flight, you're better off taking the Dragonborn template and the Wings aspect, and saving on feats, but note that you lose your human feat for doing so.


I can't imagine doing Barbarian 2 without taking Extra Rage. 1/day rage is just really sad unless you're in a campaign where you only see 1-2 encounters a day most of the time.

I agree with this. Extra Rage is valuable. Yes, Barbarian 2, with the right ACFs, gets you a boatload of features, but one of them is Rage, and it helps to have more of it. Depending on your combat style, I could see you taking other Rage feats. (One of my favorite combos is Instantaneous Rage + Intimidating Rage + Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered. Go into a Rage, everybody gets Shaken.)

I'm going to assume those weapon crystals are going on the Necklace of Natural Weapons? Because they aren't just free-floating items; you do have to socket them into something. Additionally, instead of taking INA, have you considered buying a Fanged Ring? Save the feat, buy an item.

[Troacctid]

Weapon crystals aren't the greatest combo with natural attacks. Even if your DM rules that your natural weapon has a "slot" for them, which IIRC they normally do not, each crystal only applies to one of your many attacks, so it's kinda meh.

I believe a ring of protection +1 is better AC for your gp than upgrading your armor from +1 to +2. And definitely better than upgrading an amulet of natural armor from +1 to +2--in fact it's better than the first +1, since it's the same price but improves touch AC. I suppose they're not mutually exclusive, though.

You should get a cloak of resistance in there. They're not flashy, but saves are important. Also, pick up an armor crystal, they're good value. A crystal of mind shielding would be a good idea, since your Will save is poor.

[Kesnit]

Also silverbrow human, so I assume you are planning to grab the Dragon soulmelds from the web article? If not be sure to look into those.

Yes, that is why I took Silverbrow Human.


I can't imagine doing Barbarian 2 without taking Extra Rage. 1/day rage is just really sad unless you're in a campaign where you only see 1-2 encounters a day most of the time.

What feat would you recommend dropping to pick up Extra Rage?

Edit: Actually, I just realized I don't qualify for Multiattack, since it requires 3 natural attacks. And while I technically could shape 2 extra, I usually won't. And unless I have 2 shaped, the feat doesn't work. OK, so off goes Multiattack and on goes Extra Rage.


I'm also not sure why you don't like the Totem Rager. Yes you lose 2 levels of totemist progression.

And that is why I don't like Totem Rager. Along with the slower chakra progression.


Actually, this position I understand. The problem is that a dip of Monk or Swordsage will get you IUS, but the dip alone won't get you the progression.

This, exactly. I originally was planning on dipping Swordsage. However, that would leave me with doing 1d6 (1d8 with Improved Natural Attack), and it doesn't get better. Taking the IUS/SUS route gets me a damage progression.


I'm going to assume those weapon crystals are going on the Necklace of Natural Weapons?

Yes.


Because they aren't just free-floating items; you do have to socket them into something. Additionally, instead of taking INA, have you considered buying a Fanged Ring? Save the feat, buy an item.

I'd still lose a feat, since I'd have to take Split Chakra (Hands) to wear the ring and bind something to my hands. Granted, I'll probably be using my binds elsewhere (feet and totem), but it would be nice to have the flexibility to bind something to my hands if necessary.


Weapon crystals aren't the greatest combo with natural attacks. Even if your DM rules that your natural weapon has a "slot" for them, which IIRC they normally do not, each crystal only applies to one of your many attacks, so it's kinda meh.

They are attached to the Amulet of Natural Attack. I paid the extra to have the Amulet affect 2 natural weapons, so it will actually affect my Unarmed and any one natural weapon I bind. (I need to adjust the OP, since I forgot to include the extra amount in my calculations of available gold. It's actually about 6000.)


I believe a ring of protection +1 is better AC for your gp than upgrading your armor from +1 to +2.

This has the same issue as the Fanged Ring - I need to take the Split Chakra feat in order to wear the ring.


You should get a cloak of resistance in there. They're not flashy, but saves are important. Also, pick up an armor crystal, they're good value. A crystal of mind shielding would be a good idea, since your Will save is poor.

Thank you. I knew I forgot something! I was planning to get a Cloak of Soulbound Resistance, but wanted to make sure I had enough for armor and weapons. Then I forgot about it.

[Troacctid]

Rings don't conflict with any chakras. They occupy the ring slot, not the hand slot. It's gloves that you'd need Split Chakra for. Anyway, per MIC, deflection bonus to AC is considered a common magic effect and can be added to any magic item in the ring, body, or cloak slot, so you can just sink an extra 2k into your cloak of resistance to glue the bonus there.

Soulbound items are generally bad. Essentia is valuable and you aren't likely to have the extra points to spare. The way the math works out, they're usually just worse than getting an extra +1, unless you're, like, a Necrocarnate or something.

[Kesnit]

Rings don't conflict with any chakras. They occupy the ring slot, not the hand slot. It's gloves that you'd need Split Chakra for.

Do you have a link for that? Not saying you're wrong - I just know my DM will ask.

Edit: Never mind. I found where the book says a ring of protection doesn't take a body slot.


Anyway, per MIC, deflection bonus to AC is considered a common magic effect and can be added to any magic item in the ring, body, or cloak slot, so you can just sink an extra 2k into your cloak of resistance to glue the bonus there.

Hmm... In that case.... Cutting the AC bonus on the armor to +1 and adding a +1 Deflection to the cloak. That saves me 1000 gold.


Soulbound items are generally bad. Essentia is valuable and you aren't likely to have the extra points to spare. The way the math works out, they're usually just worse than getting an extra +1, unless you're, like, a Necrocarnate or something.

Could you explain that? (Again, not saying you are wrong. Just I'm confused.)

[Red Fel]

Do you have a link for that? Not saying you're wrong - I just know my DM will ask.
In the back of the book, where it has a sample character sheet, there's a map of the chakras and body slots. On "Ring Slots," it says "No corresponding chakras." On "Hands Chakra," it notes "Gloves, gauntlets."


Could you explain that? (Again, not saying you are wrong. Just I'm confused.)
First off, Soulbound is an enhancement for armor, shield, or weapon; not for other magic items. But assuming you've applied it to either your weapon aspect or armor aspect, let's proceed. For armor and shields, investing in the item increases AC by +1 per essentia invested. If you don't invest essentia in it, it's worthless; you're better off just getting a consistent source of AC. Similarly, a Soulbound weapon gains +1 on attack and damage per essentia invested. Again, it's not a lot. Note also that Soulbound items have a limited capacity.

In other words, if you pay for a +1 bonus (Lesser Soulbound), you've paid for a bonus that does nothing unless you invest essentia; if you do, you can receive no more than a +2 bonus. Or you can pay the cost of a +3 bonus (Greater Soulbound) for a maximum of +4.

Or you could just put a plain old +1 bonus on your weapon for the same cost, and not waste your essentia on it. Get me?

[Kesnit]

First off, Soulbound is an enhancement for armor, shield, or weapon; not for other magic items.

There's also a Ring of Soulbound Protection and a Cloak of Soulbound Resistance. (MoI, p 112)


Or you could just put a plain old +1 bonus on your weapon for the same cost, and not waste your essentia on it. Get me?

Gotcha. :smallsmile:

Edit: Making all those adjustments freed up enough to get a Lesser Crystal of Mind Cloaking. YEAH!!!

[Troacctid]

You're a 7th level Totemist, so you have 5 essentia. 2 of that is presumably earmarked for Thunderstep Boots, since you wouldn't have taken the feat if you weren't going to use it. Let's say you don't care about any of your other soulmelds-out of all five of them, none are worth investing in, for whatever reason. That leaves you with 2 for your necklace and only 1 for your cloak. Which is just worse than if your cloak weren't soulbound at all! And that's the best case, with no essentia in anything else. I can't think of a configuration of five melds and two binds where none of the melds would want essentia.

Basically, you have plenty to do with your essentia; you don't need another vehicle for it.