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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class [PEACH] Herald of Harmony



ILM
2015-01-28, 12:14 PM
The Herald of Harmony

Because the Apostle of Peace kind of sucks and because exalted characters are a little bit too restrictive to my taste, I’ve decided to create my own peacenick class. While Heralds are intended to defuse situations whenever possibly, they are intentionally not crippled in combat, nor do they hamper the party’s other actions (though they certainly don’t synergize well either with a group of complete murderhobos).

Heralds of Harmony are champions of peace and life. They are not necessarily opposed to violence out of principle, but simply recognize that reasonable discourse and mutually agreed solutions are overall a better way to overcome conflict. Heralds are extremely skilled at persuasion and appeasement, in particular in tense situations. Once a truce is reached, they are also equipped to tend to any wounds inflicted in the heat of the moment.

Most Heralds trained as orators, though some have been very successful reaching out via song or even dance. While they have strong defenses, they tend to lack in offense but can slow down enemies by trying to convince them that combat is not the best option.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Heralds have the following game statistics.

Alignment: Any non-evil
Skills: Perform (any) 8 ranks, Heal 4 ranks, Diplomacy 4 ranks
Feats: Subsonics
Special: Bardic Music ability




Level
BAB
Fort
Reflex
Will
Special
Spells per day


1st
+0
+0
+0
+2
Melodic Appeasement, Bardic Music
-


2nd
+1
+0
+0
+3
Touch of Peace
+1 level of existing spellcasting class


3rd
+2
+1
+1
+3
Divine Grace
+1 level of existing spellcasting class


4th
+3
+1
+1
+4
Song of Healing (lesser), Song Without Words
+1 level of existing spellcasting class


5th
+3
+1
+1
+4
Force of Personality
-


6th
+4
+2
+2
+5
Touch of Harmony
+1 level of existing spellcasting class


7th
+5
+2
+2
+5
Song of Healing (greater)
+1 level of existing spellcasting class


8th
+6
+2
+2
+6
Sanctuary
+1 level of existing spellcasting class


9th
+6
+3
+3
+6
Virtuoso
+1 level of existing spellcasting class


10th
+7
+3
+3
+7
End to Strife
-



Hit Die: d6
Class Skills
The Herald’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Hear (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana, History, Nobility) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex)
Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier


Weapon and Armour proficiency:
Heralds of Harmony gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Melodic Appeasement (Ex):
Whenever a Herald of Harmony makes a Diplomacy check, she can instead replace it a Perform check (if rolling against a DC, the DC is unchanged). This also allows her to affect intelligent creatures whose language she doesn’t speak, and even animals and magical beasts.

Bardic Music (Su):
A Herald of Harmony adds her Herald level to her bard level to determine the number of times per day she can use her bardic music, the bardic music abilities she can employ, and the power of those abilities. For example, a 5th-level bard/4th-level Herald of Harmony can use her bardic music 9 times per day, can use any bardic music ability a 9th-level bard could use (assuming she meets the Perform skill rank requirements), and is treated as an 9th-level bard for adjudicating the effects of those abilities (such as number of targets, save DC, and so forth).

Touch of Peace (Su):
At 2nd level, a Herald of Harmony gains the ability to pacify hostile or angry creatures by touch (a standard action). The effect is similar to the calm emotions spell cast by a bard of the Herald’s hit die. The Herald can affect only a single target with each use of the ability, and must touch the target. A touched creature receives no saving throw and spell resistance does not apply. The touch of peace does not suppress positive emotions, just anger, rage, and hostility. The Herald can make a level check as if casting dispel magic, using his character level as his caster level, to dispel certain mind-affecting spells affecting the target. The pacifying touch can only dispel spells that incite violent emotions in the target, such as fear or rage.

Divine Grace (Su):
Like a Paladin, a 3rd level Herald of Harmony gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Song of Healing (Su):
A Herald of Harmony can use her music or poetics to heal wounds and rest minds.
Lesser: A Herald of 4th level or higher with 12 or more ranks in a Perform skill can heal each creature that she has already fascinated as though they had been the target of a panacea spell (Spell Compendium) cast by a Cleric of the Herald’s hit die.
Using this ability ends the Herald’s fascinate effect, but doesn’t count against the Herald’s daily limit on bardic music performances. No character may be affected by this ability more than once per hour. This is a conjuration (healing) effect.
Greater: A Herald of 7th level or higher with 15 or more ranks in a Perform skill can heal each creature that she has already fascinated as though they had been the target of both a panacea spell (Spell Compendium) and a restoration spell cast by a Cleric of the Herald’s hit die.
Using this ability ends the Herald’s fascinate effect, but doesn’t count against the Herald’s daily limit on bardic music performances. No character may be affected by this ability more than once per day (but they may receive a greater song of healing and one or more lesser songs of healing in the same day, subject to the lesser song of healing’s limitations). This is a conjuration (healing) effect.

Song Without Words:
At 4th level, the Herald of Harmony is such an inspiration to her allies that she can affect them even if they’re out of hearing range. Her bardic music can now affect any target that can see her, regardless of whether they can hear her or not. She may now use her bardic music abilities with silent uses of the Perform skill such as mime, dance, weapon drill (ToB), etc.

Force of Personality (Su):
When unarmored and unencumbered, a Herald of Harmony of 5th level or higher adds her Charisma bonus (if any) as a deflection bonus to her AC. This bonus applies even against touch attacks or when the Herald is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Touch of Hamony (Su):
At 6nd level, a Herald of Harmony gains the ability confer a state of peaceful optimism and confidence by touch (a standard action). The effect is similar to the good hope spell cast by a bard of the Herald’s hit die. The Herald can affect only a single target with each use of the ability, and must touch the target.

Sanctuary (Sp):
A Herald of Harmony who is at least 8th level can prevent creatures from attacking her or her allies in a manner similar to the effect of the sanctuary spell. To use this ability, the Herald expends two daily uses of her bardic music ability and makes a Perform check. Her check result is the DC for each affected creature's Will save against the effect. Any opponent attempting to strike or otherwise directly attack the Herald or any of her allies, even with a targeted spell, must attempt a Will save. Success means the opponent can attack normally and is unaffected by that ability. If the save fails, the opponent can't follow through with the attack: that part of its action is lost, and it can't directly affect the celebrant or her allies for the duration of the effect. Creatures not attempting to attack remain unaffected. This effect does not prevent opponents from using area or effect spells that would harm the Herald or her allies. If the Herald attacks another creature, or her allies do so, the sanctuary effect is broken.

Virtuoso (Sp):
A Herald of 9th level or higher with 16 or more ranks in a Perform skill can affect one humanoid that she has already fascinated in a manner similar to the effect of the dominate person spell cast by a Bard of the Herald’s hit die. To use this ability, the Herald expends one daily use of her bardic music ability and makes a new Perform check. Her check result is the DC for the target's Will save against the effect. The effect is permanent until dispelled or until the Herald chooses to end it. Target of this effect are also released if they spend more than 24 hours without being under the effect of the Herald’s fascinate ability.
Using this ability ends the Herald’s fascinate effect. If a creature resists this ability, the Herald may not attempt to use it again on the same target for 24 hours.

End to Strife (Sp):
By expending three daily uses of her bardic music ability, a 10th level Herald of Harmony can cast End to Strife (BoED). Treat the Herald as a Cleric of the Herald’s hit die for the purpose of determining the effect’s variables (duration, caster level, etc.).

ILM
2015-01-28, 12:19 PM
Any thoughts? Balanced? Flavorful?

The main reason I wrote this class is because I couldn't find a way to build such a character with the existing 3.5 material. A lof of the Herald's abilities are actually lifted straight from other classes (Apostle of Peace, Heartwarder and Celebrant of Sharess were some inspirations), but they're impossible to all mix in the same character.

I've tried to make some abilities generally utilitarian rather than build-focused, so that one doesn't feel that two Heralds must necessarily be identical twins. The first level discourages dips but there are a few worthwhile exit points if you want to multiclass out. For example, an army-boosting Dragonfire-Inspiring general may only be interested in Song Without Words to affect his whole army instead of just those that can hear him.

Amechra
2015-01-28, 01:01 PM
Song Without Words is actually semi-useless, since you can already use Bardic Music with any Perform skill other than Weapon Drill.

ILM
2015-01-28, 01:14 PM
Not really. All Bardic Music abilities explicitly mention only "poetics or music" and, RAI if not RAW, rely heavily on sound. Fascinate explicitly says a target must be "able to see and hear the bard". Inspire Courage explicitly mentions that "to be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing." (edit: though one could reasonably assume they meant "perform" rather than "sing") Deafness gives you a 20% chance to fail your bardic music, just as it does spells with verbal components.

Plus, this:
While these abilities fall under the category of bardic music and the descriptions discuss singing or playing instruments, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, playing an instrument, or playing an instrument in combination with some spoken performance.
Even if you don't take this to mean that ONLY the listed categories would work, they quite clearly all have vocal components.

Amechra
2015-01-28, 01:20 PM
Huh, I've always missed the fact that it specifies spoken performance... which is silly, because then you can't have mute Bard flautists or whatever (and Bards that can't sing are relatively common in fantasy.)

ILM
2015-01-29, 06:21 AM
Any other thoughts, anyone?

DracoDei
2015-01-29, 11:01 AM
Right off the bat, I'm not sure that medium BAB fits the concept. Just because you haven't included a code of conduct that limits there actions doesn't mean they should continue to get better at fighting just as quickly as if they had remained in the class.

I do note "touch of peace" but to me that doesn't justify it.


Melodic Appeasement (Ex):
Whenever a Herald of Harmony makes a Diplomacy check, she can instead replace it a Perform check (if rolling against a DC, the DC is unchanged). This also allows her to affect intelligent creatures whose language she doesn’t speak, and even animals and magical beasts.

"and even animals and magical beasts." seems a bit off for maximum clarity somehow, perhaps because diplomacy checks don't work on them in the first place, and the closest equivalent ability is the druid/ranger's animal empathy, which is phrased very differently (and doesn't allow, say, Skill Focus). OTOH this has the advantage of brevity.

I actually like that it cuts out a lot of the diplomacy synergy (Knowledge[Nobility and Royalty] for instance).


Bardic Music (Su):
A Herald of Harmony adds her Herald level to her bard level to determine the number of times per day she can use her bardic music, the bardic music abilities she can employ, and the power of those abilities. For example, a 5th-level bard/4th-level Herald of Harmony can use her bardic music 9 times per day, can use any bardic music ability a 9th-level bard could use (assuming she meets the Perform skill rank requirements), and is treated as an 9th-level bard for adjudicating the effects of those abilities (such as number of targets, save DC, and so forth).

Ok, this seems like an obvious thing to do, but I think it could be better with a small tweak: specifically state that this does not affect the progression of to-hit and damage bonuses, nor any other offensive bonuses that they might get by virtue of feats or such.



Touch of Peace (Su):
At 2nd level, a Herald of Harmony gains the ability to pacify hostile or angry creatures by touch (a standard action). The effect is similar to the calm emotions spell cast by a bard of the Herald’s hit die. The Herald can affect only a single target with each use of the ability, and must touch the target. A touched creature receives no saving throw and spell resistance does not apply. The touch of peace does not suppress positive emotions, just anger, rage, and hostility. The Herald can make a level check as if casting dispel magic, using his character level as his caster level, to dispel certain mind-affecting spells affecting the target. The pacifying touch can only dispel spells that incite violent emotions in the target, such as fear or rage.

Again, the wording seems a bit rough with how the dispelling works. I wouldn't sweat it if nothing comes immediately to mind. Perhaps try putting the listing of things it can dispel earlier such as "The Herald can make a level check to dispel spells that incite violent emotions in the target, such as fear or rage as if casting dispel magic, This uses his character level as his caster level."

Also, using character level, rather than bard caster level is an interesting choice, allowing for a bit more multiclassing (although most character concepts that would fit this PrC probably wouldn't multiclass that much like that).

If this is the only attack-roll based ability the class grants I'd prefer to see the class knocked back to poor bab, and then them getting charisma mod. as a to-hit bonus on this particular ability. Depending on the exact mood you are going for with this class, you could give them that same bonus at first level to hit creatures without an intelligence score, or just Constructs and Undead if you want to cut out oozes and vermin.


Divine Grace (Su):
Like a Paladin, a 3rd level Herald of Harmony gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Needs more fluff. WHY do they get this? I want to know from both a fluff and crunch perspective.


Song of Healing (Su):
A Herald of Harmony can use her music or poetics to heal wounds and rest minds.
Lesser: A Herald of 4th level or higher with 12 or more ranks in a Perform skill can heal each creature that she has already fascinated as though they had been the target of a panacea spell (Spell Compendium) cast by a Cleric of the Herald’s hit die.
Using this ability ends the Herald’s fascinate effect, but doesn’t count against the Herald’s daily limit on bardic music performances. No character may be affected by this ability more than once per hour. This is a conjuration (healing) effect.
Does that mean that the Fascinate doesn't count against the limit? Almost certainly not, but you might want to clarify just to avoid munchkin problems (or not, since RAI is fairly obvious here). Then again, it could be seen as a reward for healing the target.

What does panacea do in general terms? Hard to judge the ability without having at least a vague idea of that.


Greater: A Herald of 7th level or higher with 15 or more ranks in a Perform skill can heal each creature that she has already fascinated as though they had been the target of both a panacea spell (Spell Compendium) and a restoration spell cast by a Cleric of the Herald’s hit die.
Using this ability ends the Herald’s fascinate effect, but doesn’t count against the Herald’s daily limit on bardic music performances. No character may be affected by this ability more than once per day (but they may receive a greater song of healing and one or more lesser songs of healing in the same day, subject to the lesser song of healing’s limitations). This is a conjuration (healing) effect.

Ok, with panacea I could see this being an extension of their "take away the rage spells" because I don't know what it does. Throw in restoration and I become very confused as to why this is linked to fascinating the target. Is it just so they have to be vulnerable for a round before they get the effect, making it a "out of combat 99% of the time" thing?

Does using this ability require a separate action from establishing the fascinate? I assume so but MAYBE clarifying would be good... nah, it is probably fine.


Song Without Words:
At 4th level, the Herald of Harmony is such an inspiration to her allies that she can affect them even if they’re out of hearing range. Her bardic music can now affect any target that can see her, regardless of whether they can hear her or not. She may now use her bardic music abilities with silent uses of the Perform skill such as mime, dance, weapon drill (ToB), etc.

A useful and probably balanced ability. Makes the party marginally more stealthy and counters silence


Force of Personality (Su):
When unarmored and unencumbered, a Herald of Harmony of 5th level or higher adds her Charisma bonus (if any) as a deflection bonus to her AC. This bonus applies even against touch attacks or when the Herald is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

A tenth level character suddenly ditching their armor?

I guess I can see it, especially since that might be getting into the levels where normal AC matters less unless you HEAVILY invest in it, but Touch AC is still something to worry about. Dex bonus is not an issue since the limit on mithril chain is +6 IIRC and dex is a secondary stat here, way behind charisma.


Touch of Hamony (Su):
At 6nd level, a Herald of Harmony gains the ability confer a state of peaceful optimism and confidence by touch (a standard action). The effect is similar to the good hope spell cast by a bard of the Herald’s hit die. The Herald can affect only a single target with each use of the ability, and must touch the target.

I'd specify that this doesn't give bonuses to damage and to-hit.
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.
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Going to stop here, at least fore the moment. Got stuff I need to do.

ILM
2015-01-29, 02:04 PM
Hi! Thanks for the detailed look, appreciate it! :smallsmile:


Right off the bat, I'm not sure that medium BAB fits the concept. Just because you haven't included a code of conduct that limits there actions doesn't mean they should continue to get better at fighting just as quickly as if they had remained in the class.
The intent was to have a kind of pragmatic pacifist. Peace whenever possible, but honestly when you're up against demons and devils or whatever, you're just not going to sit them down for tea (note the non-evil requirement). Medium BAB, to me, is kind of D&D's "I'd rather not hit things with a pointy stick but if I have to, I have a prayer of hitting something". They do get better at fighting as quickly as if they'd stayed a Bard, but the Bard's not a melee powerhouse to begin with.



"and even animals and magical beasts." seems a bit off for maximum clarity somehow, perhaps because diplomacy checks don't work on them in the first place, and the closest equivalent ability is the druid/ranger's animal empathy, which is phrased very differently (and doesn't allow, say, Skill Focus). OTOH this has the advantage of brevity.
I was just going for "you sing so well that you can stop raging beasts in their tracks." Maybe I can clarify that "A Herald may even use this ability to improve the attitude of an animal or magical beast, but using a Perform check instead of Diplomacy."

It is objectively better than wild empathy, but to be honest I always thought that ability was stupidly written in the first place so I'm cool with that :).


Ok, this seems like an obvious thing to do, but I think it could be better with a small tweak: specifically state that this does not affect the progression of to-hit and damage bonuses, nor any other offensive bonuses that they might get by virtue of feats or such.
I'm not sure I can think of a precedent for this. I hesitated between giving full bardic music progression, or just number of uses per day (but no progression of the actual abilities). In overall terms, this class gets same BAB, one worse save, same bardic music progression, and 3 lost spellcaster levels compared to straight Bard - but a slew of other abilities. I think this is what I'm more concerned with in terms of balance. As above, I'm okay with the fluff allowing the Herald to assist in combat; it's just that she has more (and better) ways to contribute peacefully if the situation allows.


Again, the wording seems a bit rough with how the dispelling works. I wouldn't sweat it if nothing comes immediately to mind. Perhaps try putting the listing of things it can dispel earlier such as "The Herald can make a level check to dispel spells that incite violent emotions in the target, such as fear or rage as if casting dispel magic, This uses his character level as his caster level."

Also, using character level, rather than bard caster level is an interesting choice, allowing for a bit more multiclassing (although most character concepts that would fit this PrC probably wouldn't multiclass that much like that).

If this is the only attack-roll based ability the class grants I'd prefer to see the class knocked back to poor bab, and then them getting charisma mod. as a to-hit bonus on this particular ability. Depending on the exact mood you are going for with this class, you could give them that same bonus at first level to hit creatures without an intelligence score, or just Constructs and Undead if you want to cut out oozes and vermin.
I actually pretty much copy-pasted from Apostle of Peace, but I see your point. Progression by HD is a pet peeve of mine, I hate all these classes that force you to stay in them if you want a feature to stay relevant.Maybe you have a different character in mind and don't care about the spellcasting ability: this lets you stay relevant in spite of your caster level being low (plus, there's no fluff reason this should be linked to the herald's caster level since it's more of an innate thing).

I should probably clarify that it's a melee touch attack, for starters, and I'm actually inclined to either drop the dispel thing, or to make it an automatic success; the dispel check seems unwieldy.


Needs more fluff. WHY do they get this? I want to know from both a fluff and crunch perspective.
Well, the intent was to improve their defensive options. I mean, they're so serene and aware, y'know? Protected by an aura of peace, sort of. Too much with the medium BAB?


Does that mean that the Fascinate doesn't count against the limit? Almost certainly not, but you might want to clarify just to avoid munchkin problems (or not, since RAI is fairly obvious here). Then again, it could be seen as a reward for healing the target.
No: you use one use to Fascinate, but you don't use a second one to heal.


What does panacea do in general terms? Hard to judge the ability without having at least a vague idea of that.
Basically heals status ailments and minor amount of hp. It's a Cleric 4/ Druid 5 spell, for reference.


Ok, with panacea I could see this being an extension of their "take away the rage spells" because I don't know what it does. Throw in restoration and I become very confused as to why this is linked to fascinating the target. Is it just so they have to be vulnerable for a round before they get the effect, making it a "out of combat 99% of the time" thing?

Does using this ability require a separate action from establishing the fascinate? I assume so but MAYBE clarifying would be good... nah, it is probably fine.
The intent is that the bard's song (or dance or whatever) is so magical and entrancing that it heals negative conditions. Panacea takes care of all the fatigue/confuse/dazzle etc., and restoration takes care of negative levels and ability damage. Originally I had it say that the target needed to be fascinated for at least an hour before this worked, but then I remembered fascinate doesn't last that long -_-. It certainly isn't intended to be an in-combat ability (neither is the lesser version, in fact). How would you suggest I phrase it?


A tenth level character suddenly ditching their armor?

I guess I can see it, especially since that might be getting into the levels where normal AC matters less unless you HEAVILY invest in it, but Touch AC is still something to worry about. Dex bonus is not an issue since the limit on mithril chain is +6 IIRC and dex is a secondary stat here, way behind charisma.
Myeah, think I should leave light armor in there? I was afraid of going a bit overboard.


Going to stop here, at least fore the moment. Got stuff I need to do.
Looking forward to the rest of it! :smallbiggrin:

Eno Remnant
2015-01-29, 07:57 PM
Alright, I’ve got a lot of things to say about this class, because I like the concept but the execution is lacking.

First, Subsonics. It’s an unusual choice for a pre-req feat. Nothing wrong with that, just not something you see a lot of.

Second, the stat block. Draco’s right, the BAB progression should match the Bard’s, since this is a Bardic PrC. You don’t suddenly increase your combat training when you’ve decided peace is a better option, pragmatism or no. Will as your only good save seems reasonable, as do the dropped caster levels. Just enough to limit a character without crippling them. The decrease in skill points from Bard is also a wise nerf. Last thing of note is that you’ve written “Hear” instead of “Heal” in the class skills.

Now, the class features:

Melodic Appeasement seems unbalanced to me. Most players (the experienced ones, at least) plan out their character’s progression in advance of a campaign, so what this does is free up a lot of skill points that would have otherwise gone into Diplomacy. This alone isn’t bad, really. The problem is that Perform is easier to increase than Diplomacy (some might argue with me, but I know an item I can get at level 2 that adds +6 to Perform for a reasonable price; and I did in one campaign), and the ability to affect animals and magical beasts undermines one of the few limits that exists on a broken skill (Diplomacy, not Perform). Might be more reasonable to say you only apply half of your Perform check when interacting with animals or magical beasts, though I feel like the feature as a whole could be nerfed (not sure how, though).

Bardic Music, normal for a Bardic PrC. Nothing to say here.

Touch of Peace allows you to cast Calm Emotions at-will with no save and no spell resistance. That’s even more broken than Perform checks in place of DCs (which I will be getting into with later class features), and I can already see the abuses. Steal something and get caught by the owner? Give him a quick tap. Marauding barbarians? A stealth-based Bard can slip right into their lines and put half of them off their fight before the battle even begins. And both of these examples raise the excellent point that most people at the level you want to give the Herald of Harmony this ability don’t have access to Dispel Magic. Then we get into the Herald’s dispel, which basically gives them the power to shut down some of a DM’s favourite weapons at this level (though its quick slide into obscurity makes up for that). There needs to be a save offered for this, as well as SR. Of course, that doesn’t mean you can’t add a secondary affect that works even if the save is made. The Nightmare Spinner prestige class, for example, has an enchantment variant that can apply a special effect to charms so that, even if they fail, still make the target one step friendlier.

Divine Grace. No. Bad. I cannot stress this badly enough. Charisma is my area of expertise in DnD (I’m even in the process of writing the Dashing Hero Handbook, which is all about optimising Charisma), and I can tell you right now that we do not need this PrC with this class feature in the world. It’s easy to access with just one level of Bard (think about a minimum arcane casting level pre-req), and for an investment of just three levels you gain Charisma to saves. So here’s what I—and I’ll be frank with you, I’m not a very good optimiser—would do: Three levels of Paladin (UA Chaotic Good variant, or I can take the Devoted Performer feat later), one of Battle Dancer (Charisma to AC is win), one level of Bard and then three levels of Herald of Harmony. Do you understand what this does to me? I just gained Charisma to AC, Bardic Music to fuel either Snowflake Wardance or Metamagic Song, and Charisma to saves twice. My advice is to do what Intelligence classes with similar features do—limit the maximum bonus this feature can apply to the PrC’s class level, or maybe both the PrC and their Bard level, to encourage players to enter this as a pure Bard.

Song of Healing is weird. That’s the best way I can put it. Fascinating people to cure status effects? That makes zero sense and nobody would do it. If you tried to pull it on your whole party at once, they’d spend a whole round doing nothing. And that’s if you can make the effect last, since they’re probably in the middle of a battle. And it would leave them vulnerable for a round outside of combat, which nobody ever wants. It would be far wiser to cast one of those spells (I believe both appear in the Bard’s spell list eventually, or you can just get a scroll), either on a case-by-case basis or with Reach/Chain Spell. It really would be smarter to make it cost Bardic Music uses and not require fascination. And probably remove the use limit.

Song Without Words is… interesting. What you’re really saying is that you can apply an Inspire song at any range, since normal vision has infinite range (by RAW), limited only by obstacles/spells/etc. Of course, if you specified that they had to see you clearly, that still allows for a really good Spot check. Also, you could just use a spell to watch the Herald Perform from wherever you are—including on another plane. Really, I only see this as situationally useful, so I see no need to nerf it.

Force of Personality. Okay, this one’s easy. Go back to my Divine Grace example, change it from three levels of Herald of Harmony to five, and then take two levels of Risen Martyr. Thank you, triple Charisma to AC. A similar nerf might be in order.

Sanctuary is good. Might surprise some people that I think this, having read this far through my evaluation, but it really is. Sanctuary has always been a spell too weak to do what it promised, so swapping a standard DC for a Perform check could quite literally be a life saver.

As for Virtuoso, the opposite is true. There’s a basic maxim that must be understood, especially at low levels: skill checks > saves. I can easily build up more than +50 to a Perform skill by level 20, and the average saves around those levels are probably +30, +40. Only an optimiser could make the Will save for this class feature, even against an amateur playing a Bard. It’s basically a free Dominate Person, which of course is broken. In conjunction with Melodic Appeasement, you can just make everyone your puppet. I recommend switching the DC to something like 10 + class level + Charisma modifier. Still powerful, but at least a DC of around 30 is slightly more reasonable than 1d20+50. Also, maybe an addendum stating you can only Dominate one person at a time.

End to Strife seems like a reasonable and decent capstone. No objections there.

I hope these suggestions help.

EDIT: Silly me, I missed Touch of Harmony. I haven't much to say on that front, really.

ILM
2015-01-30, 04:59 AM
Okay, more feedback, awesome :).


First, Subsonics. It’s an unusual choice for a pre-req feat. Nothing wrong with that, just not something you see a lot of.
Honestly, I felt like I needed a feat tax for balance and I couldn't think of anything. Subsonics works as kind of a stepping stone to Song Without Words so I used that, but I'm happy to take any better suggestions.


Second, the stat block. Draco’s right, the BAB progression should match the Bard’s, since this is a Bardic PrC. You don’t suddenly increase your combat training when you’ve decided peace is a better option, pragmatism or no.
I'm confused: it's 3/4 BAB, like the Bard...


Melodic Appeasement seems unbalanced to me. Most players (the experienced ones, at least) plan out their character’s progression in advance of a campaign, so what this does is free up a lot of skill points that would have otherwise gone into Diplomacy. This alone isn’t bad, really. The problem is that Perform is easier to increase than Diplomacy (some might argue with me, but I know an item I can get at level 2 that adds +6 to Perform for a reasonable price; and I did in one campaign), and the ability to affect animals and magical beasts undermines one of the few limits that exists on a broken skill (Diplomacy, not Perform). Might be more reasonable to say you only apply half of your Perform check when interacting with animals or magical beasts, though I feel like the feature as a whole could be nerfed (not sure how, though).
I think that's arguable. Diplomancers can make it to the +100s to Diplomacy whereas I'm not sure Perform can go that high. Additionally, the utility of the Diplomacy skill is highly DM-dependent as I know from first-hand experience that while some will let you influence NPCs with a high roll and virtually no RP, others will basically ignore the skill entirely and have you RP your way through all social interactions. I make no claims as to which is more correct, but this probably makes the value of this ability rather group-specific.
Also, there are multiple precedents for replacing certain skill checks with others. In fact, the Exemplar can replace a Diplomacy check to improve NPC attitudes with any skill check, though now that I read the ability again it might be appropriate to copy its wording too.
I'm not so sure what the big deal is with affecting animals and magical beasts, to be honest, but I'm not married to that part: if everybody thinks it's too much I'll just strike it out.


Touch of Peace allows you to cast Calm Emotions at-will with no save and no spell resistance. That’s even more broken than Perform checks in place of DCs (which I will be getting into with later class features), and I can already see the abuses.
Apostle of Peace gets it at level 2 (now that you mention it though, that's 2 character levels higer than a Herald due to prereqs) and it's hardly considered broken. I literally just copy-pasted. As I said above in response to DracoDei, I'll strike out the dispel part as the mechanics are too wonky. I'll also limit the caster level to herald level to cap the duration on the calm emotions effect.


Divine Grace. No. Bad.
Ouch :smalltongue:. I think what you're missing is that it doesn't stack with a Paladin's Divine Grace as they're the same ability with the same name. The intent of Force of Personality was also that it shouldn't stack with similar abilities, which I'll clarify. Also, I submit to you that if a class ability achieved at level 5 of a PrC can be easily stacked with a level 1 base class ability to problematic levels, maybe the issue isn't with the PrC :smallwink: (especially when nobody ever takes more than 1 level in said base class)
Either way, I'll clarify that these don't stack with other abilities providing the same benefits. Would that work for you? Otherwise, I'm not opposed to capping it to PrC level (although to me that's more a defense against dips and if you're already 5 levels in, it's not really a dip in the first place).


Song of Healing is weird. That’s the best way I can put it. Fascinating people to cure status effects? That makes zero sense and nobody would do it. If you tried to pull it on your whole party at once, they’d spend a whole round doing nothing. And that’s if you can make the effect last, since they’re probably in the middle of a battle.
Really? I thought that music so powerful that it sort of washed away any physical or mental fatigue was kind of a common trope, to be honest. I really want to tie it to Fascinate as I think this ability really does the best job at carrying the enchanting aspect of the music. Also, you can't Fascinate in combat ("The distraction of a nearby combat or other dangers prevents the ability from working."). The intent is that you survive a tough fight, you've taken some status aiments and your friendly bard sings you a little song of soothing that makes it all better. I'd still want to introduce a minimum duration but I'm unsure how to do so; it looks like, say, a minimum of 3 rounds and 5 rounds respectively would work mechanically, but it's still a bit shorter than I'd like fluff-wise.
I considered spell list extension but I'm a bit wary of that: a lot of caster optimization tricks rely on that so I'd prefer to steer clear. Plus, the whole Fascinate thing I just mentioned.


Song Without Words is… interesting. What you’re really saying is that you can apply an Inspire song at any range, since normal vision has infinite range (by RAW), limited only by obstacles/spells/etc. Of course, if you specified that they had to see you clearly, that still allows for a really good Spot check. Also, you could just use a spell to watch the Herald Perform from wherever you are—including on another plane. Really, I only see this as situationally useful, so I see no need to nerf it.
Pretty much, though I hadn't thought about scrying. I'll clarify it only works on direct LOS (think I should also require LOE?) and doesn't work through magical sensors.


As for Virtuoso, the opposite is true. There’s a basic maxim that must be understood, especially at low levels: skill checks > saves.
I absolutely see your point, but here was my reasoning. First, dominate person only works on, well, persons; it's purposefully not dominate monster (now that I think of it, that's not really coherent with Musical Appeasement fluff-wise - hm). It's a level 5 spell that full casters get about 6 character levels before the Herald. Second, by character level 15, the entire enchantment school is basically dead in the water. I mean, you can block this with a level 1 Protection against Alignment spell - and that's not even mentioning higher-level options like Disobedience, Mind Blank and the like. Sure, the DC will be irresistible if you even work a little for it, but most potential (combat) enemies will be flat-out immune in the first place. As potential victims, this leaves high-level characters who haven't taken the most elementary protective measures (and therefore kind of deserve it) and low-level NPCs, against whom a DC 30 save would be just as effective anyway. And again, the fact you can't fascinate in combat means this is a strictly out of combat ability. Finally, this requires two daily uses of Bardic Music every time, and you have to renew it every day. If you blew all your BM uses on this, you might have, what 10 thrall mooks? Honestly, it seems rather ok to me considering you're basically giving up most of your other class abilities to do that. If you still feel that's too much I can increase the total cost to 3 BM uses (1 for Fascinate, 2 for dominate).


Anyway, you've given me a lot to think about so thanks again! :smallsmile:

Zaydos
2015-01-30, 02:31 PM
I absolutely see your point, but here was my reasoning. First, dominate person only works on, well, persons; it's purposefully not dominate monster (now that I think of it, that's not really coherent with Musical Appeasement fluff-wise - hm). It's a level 5 spell that full casters get about 6 character levels before the Herald. Second, by character level 15, the entire enchantment school is basically dead in the water. I mean, you can block this with a level 1 Protection against Alignment spell - and that's not even mentioning higher-level options like Disobedience, Mind Blank and the like. Sure, the DC will be irresistible if you even work a little for it, but most potential (combat) enemies will be flat-out immune in the first place. As potential victims, this leaves high-level characters who haven't taken the most elementary protective measures (and therefore kind of deserve it) and low-level NPCs, against whom a DC 30 save would be just as effective anyway. And again, the fact you can't fascinate in combat means this is a strictly out of combat ability. Finally, this requires two daily uses of Bardic Music every time, and you have to renew it every day. If you blew all your BM uses on this, you might have, what 10 thrall mooks? Honestly, it seems rather ok to me considering you're basically giving up most of your other class abilities to do that. If you still feel that's too much I can increase the total cost to 3 BM uses (1 for Fascinate, 2 for dominate).

I'm going to point out a critical flaw in this thinking. Either the ability is useless because the DM is just assumed to make it useless against, or the ability is broken because you gave it a vastly too high save and therefore the DM must give enemies immunities. Make the DC normal and it still functions against low level characters (because DC 20+ will get them every time), has a higher DC than the spell (DC 10 + PrC level + Stat > DC 15 + Stat), and lets the DM occasionally throw in high level targets it does function on allowing the ability to see actual use. Saying "it's easy to get immunity so it's not like the ability can see use anyway" is a really bad reason to give it an irresistible DC because it forces an arms race and DMs always win arm races if they want to.

Also I've heard Apostle of Peace's Touch of Peace called out as broken a fair bit of the time Apostle of Peace comes up though usually Vow of Peace is being discussed as more problematic.

Edit:

Huh, I've always missed the fact that it specifies spoken performance... which is silly, because then you can't have mute Bard flautists or whatever (and Bards that can't sing are relatively common in fantasy.)

Actually it specifies whistling, playing a musical instrument, or playing a musical instrument while singing as options. So mute bard flautists are still allowed. It just must have an auditory component so Perform (Dance) cannot be used in addition to Perform (Weapon Drill).

DracoDei
2015-01-31, 02:57 PM
I'm sorry, we just don't seem to be communicating very well. I'm not sure I can continue to review this.