Multiple Enemy Displacement (Pulling enemies to you at range)

[CryWolfCorrupt]

Hey guys, I have been searching for an answer to this for awhile and have not found anything to help with this.

Currently, I'm working on a tank-like character. Knowing that tanks are largely irrelevant (and grow less and less useful as levels progress), I have been looking for a way to stop the whole "they walk past you, roll AOO" or "they teleport past you" aspect of tanking. I'm not looking to force them to attack me (goad, Knight's Challenge, etc), only to basically displace multiple enemies or even just one at a time at range. A pull, if you will. I was initially looking at teleporting cheese, as in teleporting to different enemies, grabbing them, and teleporting to other enemies until multiple enemies surround me. However, the action economy does not smile on this tactic, and neither does the spell level of most teleports.

Does anyone have any idea how to "grab" multiple enemies and pull them to you? The only thing I can really even think of is to (can't remember what it is or if its even WOTC official) grow the tentacles/tendrils and use their "natural attack" to grapple enemies within their reach of X feet and pull them to you. However, I'm really not into the whole transfiguration of my character.

I doubt this is possible, but I can't even find a thread with someone else asking the same thing.

[Zaq]

Well, there's Knockback, but that's less about bringing enemies close to you and more about shoving them away from you, so unless you've got a really permissive GM, that probably won't work.

Grappling, if you can pull off the crazy high mods needed to succeed at grappling at high levels, is kind of a way to go about it. One of my favorite things that makes grappling easier is the Grappling Vine, a plant graft from Magic of Eberron. You might look into that.

Generally, what makes position-based tanks effective is having a trick that forces your enemy to stop moving when you AoO them. This basically boils down to Improved Trip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTrip) and/or Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill). It doesn't do much for actually drawing enemies closer to you, but it does stop them from moving away from you. If you go with this route, you definitely want to try to pick up Thicket of Blades somehow, because then you can stop enemies who try to Tumble away or who try to 5 ft step away. Naturally, you want to increase your reach as much as possible, so as to threaten (and thus lock down) the widest possible area.

[Troacctid]

The Improved Grab ability allows you to pull an enemy into your square after a successful melee attack. If you combine it with reach weapons, it can do what you want. You can get it with a dip in Spirit Bear Totem Barbarian. However, it does require a grapple check, and IIRC it only works on enemies who are smaller than you.

[CryWolfCorrupt]

The Improved Grab ability allows you to pull an enemy into your square after a successful melee attack. If you combine it with reach weapons, it can do what you want. You can get it with a dip in Spirit Bear Totem Barbarian. However, it does require a grapple check, and IIRC it only works on enemies who are smaller than you.
I'm a medium human, but this actually is an interesting aspect. I'm not usually a fan of 1-level dips (min/maxing and all that is typically frowned upon in all 3 of my tabletops and my DM's consider dips to be such), but I do like the idea of using a weapon to pull an enemy in. Can it be used on multiple attacks (full round attack, cleaves, etc?) if I don't actually hold onto the enemy once I "grab" them?


Well, there's Knockback, but that's less about bringing enemies close to you and more about shoving them away from you, so unless you've got a really permissive GM, that probably won't work.
Yeah, I'm not so much into it, though I did consider attempting to use the skill trick that lets me change direction once while charging to attempt to grapple enemies as I run by them lol.


Grappling, if you can pull off the crazy high mods needed to succeed at grappling at high levels, is kind of a way to go about it. One of my favorite things that makes grappling easier is the Grappling Vine, a plant graft from Magic of Eberron. You might look into that.
I'll definitely look into it, though again I'm not typically into grafts, transfigurations, and general "morphing" of my toons.


Generally, what makes position-based tanks effective is having a trick that forces your enemy to stop moving when you AoO them. This basically boils down to Improved Trip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTrip) and/or Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill). It doesn't do much for actually drawing enemies closer to you, but it does stop them from moving away from you. If you go with this route, you definitely want to try to pick up Thicket of Blades somehow, because then you can stop enemies who try to Tumble away or who try to 5 ft step away. Naturally, you want to increase your reach as much as possible, so as to threaten (and thus lock down) the widest possible area.
I've been looking into Heavy Flail (thematic) and the Spiked Chain (mechanic) for tripping, and I have Imp. Trip. Thicket of Blades is awesome, but is there another option to stop enemies from "escaping"? And I know that I can increase my size and use I think "Enlarge Weapon" too to increase my reach, but I'm gonna need to look into non-magical means. But that still pretty much leaves enemies able to walk around me, fly over me, and teleport past me. I'm really surprised there's not a "Cyclone" or similar spell that pulls all enemies into a target location.

[Troacctid]

I'm a medium human, but this actually is an interesting aspect. I'm not usually a fan of 1-level dips (min/maxing and all that is typically frowned upon in all 3 of my tabletops and my DM's consider dips to be such), but I do like the idea of using a weapon to pull an enemy in. Can it be used on multiple attacks (full round attack, cleaves, etc?) if I don't actually hold onto the enemy once I "grab" them?

You can release an enemy from a grapple as a free action, so yes--provided they don't try to hang onto you when you let go, which they can do if they want. If they do, you need to use another attack to try and pin them; if you succeed, you can then end the grapple as a free action whether they like it or not.

If you don't want to dip Barbarian, you can also get improved grab via the Scorpion's Grasp feat from Sandstorm; it can be used on creatures of any size category, but you have to use a light or one-handed weapon or an unarmed strike, so you typically will have less reach. Works with a whip, though.

[A_S]

If you want to hit many enemies at once, you could use a Sculpted (20-ft. radius burst) Whirling Blade to hit all enemies in an area with the light slashing weapon of your choice, triggering Scorpion's Grasp to pull each of them.

[Hiro Quester]

Baleful transposition spell will enable the caster to make an ally and an enemy trade places. Will save negates. Second level, wizard spell. You could easily make an at-will, 5uses/day item.

The problem is that you can't take people you carry with you. So you couldn't just leap around collecting grappled enemies.

But you could transpose yourself with an enemy who is next to one of his allies. Or transpose an ally next you with an enemy, who you grab.

It ain't perfect. But it's something.

[Curmudgeon]

You can release an enemy from a grapple as a free action, so yes--provided they don't try to hang onto you when you let go, which they can do if they want. If they do, you need to use another attack to try and pin them; if you succeed, you can then end the grapple as a free action whether they like it or not.
To clarify, there isn't actually an option to get out of a non-pinned grapple as a free action. You can escape from a grapple by winning an opposed grapple check (in place of an attack), or by a successful Escape Artist check (as a standard action). Only if you pin the opponent (grapple check in place of an attack) can you then use a free action to end the grapple. Even if both grapplers are willing to end things, somebody has to spend the necessary action (attack or standard).

[CryWolfCorrupt]

To clarify, there isn't actually an option to get out of a non-pinned grapple as a free action. You can escape from a grapple by winning an opposed grapple check (in place of an attack), or by a successful Escape Artist check (as a standard action). Only if you pin the opponent (grapple check in place of an attack) can you then use a free action to end the grapple. Even if both grapplers are willing to end things, somebody has to spend the necessary action (attack or standard).
Thank you for that clarification. It does seem this is the most probable way to achieve this.

Baleful transposition spell will enable the caster to make an ally and an enemy trade places. Will save negates. Second level, wizard spell. You could easily make an at-will, 5uses/day item.

The problem is that you can't take people you carry with you. So you couldn't just leap around collecting grappled enemies.

But you could transpose yourself with an enemy who is next to one of his allies. Or transpose an ally next you with an enemy, who you grab.

It ain't perfect. But it's something.
I did consider this, but it still means using 5 turns to collect enemies. Looking for something a bit more...instantaneous.

If you want to hit many enemies at once, you could use a Sculpted (20-ft. radius burst) Whirling Blade to hit all enemies in an area with the light slashing weapon of your choice, triggering Scorpion's Grasp to pull each of them.
Now this sounds pretty interesting, actually. Any source on Whirling Blade? Is that the one from Spell Compendium? Because if I remember correctly, it's an effect: line not area: line so Sculpt Spell wouldn't work, though I love the idea and will pitch it to my DM. Very cool thematically.

[A_S]

Now this sounds pretty interesting, actually. Any source on Whirling Blade? Is that the one from Spell Compendium? Because if I remember correctly, it's an effect: line not area: line so Sculpt Spell wouldn't work, though I love the idea and will pitch it to my DM. Very cool thematically.
You are correct :smallredface: . It's listed as an effect.

Sigh.

[Hiro Quester]

You might just need to resort to a knight's challenge kind of thing. For low will-save opponents, it's a great way to get yourself surrounded by many enemies.