Defender builds

[KristofCarrot]

Hi there!

Probably i've missed some topics, but couldn't Google them also, so if this is a double post - give me the links to older topics, that would be fine ;)

The question is pretty simple, due to the fact that I've played only 4e and going to start Next, I'm trying to find out some defender-like build.
Straight defender + sentinel fighter build isnt smth I want to go.

Is there any optimized builds with multiclassing like warlock + fighter\paladin or smth like that? Want to play smth wierd or just funny, even maybe smth strange.

BR!

[Eslin]

Hi there!

Probably i've missed some topics, but couldn't Google them also, so if this is a double post - give me the links to older topics, that would be fine ;)

The question is pretty simple, due to the fact that I've played only 4e and going to start Next, I'm trying to find out some defender-like build.
Straight defender + sentinel fighter build isnt smth I want to go.

Is there any optimized builds with multiclassing like warlock + fighter\paladin or smth like that? Want to play smth wierd or just funny, even maybe smth strange.

BR!

Anything 4e did well 5e refused to do in the name of disassociating itself. 4e did defenders well, so sentinel plus a martial class is the best you're going to get.

[KristofCarrot]

Anything 4e did well 5e refused to do in the name of disassociating itself. 4e did defenders well, so sentinel plus a martial class is the best you're going to get.

Ok, and if we are going step away from a default 4e defender like character, what would you suggest picking up?

def fighter or dex paladin
and multiclass warlock\sorc\bard?

Are there any viable and not obviously gimped builds for a melee caster?

[Eslin]

Ok, and if we are going step away from a default 4e defender like character, what would you suggest picking up?

def fighter or dex paladin
and multiclass warlock\sorc\bard?

Are there any viable and not obviously gimped builds for a melee caster?

Paladins make good melee casters, though I'd go strength if you're making one.

[Giant2005]

Warding Bond is a pretty amazing spell for protecting others.
You are probably better off making a Cleric/Sorcerer combo and twinning Warding Bond on two melee guys and staying well away if you want to protect others. If you want to melee you could throw in some Paladin levels too and twin Heroism as well. Heroism's regeneration is twice as powerful when the targets are only taking half the damage. Although, I wouldn't recommend going in melee with a Warding Bond build - especially a twinned one. Taking half the incoming damage of two others as well as a full share of your own will get you dead pretty damn fast.

[silveralen]

There are a couple good options.

Paladin is probably the most straightforward. Compelled duel is the closest the game has to a taunt/mark by default, though it works well enough for what it is. Vengeance paladin has some nice tie ins with his divinity feature to keep an enemy in range and discourage him form attacking others, plus hold person, while ancient paladin has ensnaring strike and other such lock down abilities. In addition, you have mild healing/buff abilities you get for free which helps keep teammates alive (albeit more of a leader than defender flavor).

Ranger is an interesting choice. It works great if marking is allowed, then whirlwind attack and horde breaker really come into their own, as does duel wielding in general. Sentinel is a good choice in such a case. Depending if a BM's companion can use reactions on his own (not addressed directly in PHB unless I missed it), that can be an alternative way to pin down multiple enemies. You also have a spell list with some gems, ensnaring strike and grasping vine happen to be my personal favorites.

Bard can be a good choice for grapple lock downs thanks to expertise and can poach whatever spells he might need to supplement this. You'd probably be going valor bard, and you won't hit your full stride till level 10, but still a solid choice for a different type.

[Balor777]

Defender is the guy who protects others or
the guy that wont go down easy?
I didnt play 4e.
Good balanced choise between protector/tank is
1levelfighter to get a style/Barbarrian(TOTEM) afterwards.
Use longsword/shield and you are good to go.
Dwarf/half-orc are both good choises.
You can either get the tough feat+protection style which will effectively be 4 hp per level
because bear Barbar takes 50% damage from everything.
Human works too.You will start with 16STR/CON and with a good
18AC and 17 HP at level 1(including the tough feat).By level 10 you will have 124 hp(250 effective)
With Good damage with recless attack(88% vs 65% chances to hit without recklessand that 23%more
chances to hit is effectively 23% more damage.)+rage.
And the ability to protect the mage.Protection style is overlooked many times but it
can be golden.If you have a rogue at your party when you attack the same target you will
steamroll everything.Disadvantage to the enemies attack rolls is huge.

[Eslin]

Defender is the guy who protects others or
the guy that wont go down easy?
I didnt play 4e.
Good balanced choise between protector/tank is
1levelfighter to get a style/Barbarrian(TOTEM) afterwards.
Use longsword/shield and you are good to go.
Dwarf/half-orc are both good choises.
You can either get the tough feat+protection style which will effectively be 4 hp per level
because bear Barbar takes 50% damage from everything.
Human works too.You will start with 16STR/CON and with a good
18AC and 17 HP at level 1(including the tough feat).By level 10 you will have 124 hp(250 effective)
With Good damage with recless attack(88% vs 65% chances to hit without recklessand that 23%more
chances to hit is effectively 23% more damage.)+rage.
And the ability to protect the mage.Protection style is overlooked many times but it
can be golden.If you have a rogue at your party when you attack the same target you will
steamroll everything.Disadvantage to the enemies attack rolls is huge.

Defender is the style that protects others. I'm not seeing a lot of actual ability to protect others there.

[Balor777]

Defender is the style that protects others. I'm not seeing a lot of actual ability to protect others there.
There are other ways to protect with magic but i believe he wanted the physical type guy here.
Also a +6 attack monster attacking a 16 AC teamate will have 50% chances to hit.With disadvantage it goes down to 25%.
Its 50% DPR reduction FREE of cost.
Whitout this feat the ogre attacks your wizard and you attack the ogre.Its a damage race whos gonna die faster.
but under the effect of protection, after 1-2 misses the good DM's Ogre will attack the "guardian".Its a nice feat with super action economy because its actualy a just a free reaction.

[KristofCarrot]

Defender is the guy who protects others or
the guy that wont go down easy?
I didnt play 4e.
Good balanced choise between protector/tank is
1levelfighter to get a style/Barbarrian(TOTEM) afterwards.
Use longsword/shield and you are good to go.
Dwarf/half-orc are both good choises.
You can either get the tough feat+protection style which will effectively be 4 hp per level
because bear Barbar takes 50% damage from everything.
Human works too.You will start with 16STR/CON and with a good
18AC and 17 HP at level 1(including the tough feat).By level 10 you will have 124 hp(250 effective)
With Good damage with recless attack(88% vs 65% chances to hit without recklessand that 23%more
chances to hit is effectively 23% more damage.)+rage.
And the ability to protect the mage.Protection style is overlooked many times but it
can be golden.If you have a rogue at your party when you attack the same target you will
steamroll everything.Disadvantage to the enemies attack rolls is huge.

Well good idea to watch over barbarin, but I will probably go through fighter or paladin at 1-6 lvl, cause i want to go a dex charcter with the ability to use bows and stealth if needed.
And here is the point I've asked about:
1. go full fighter with Eldritch Knight
2. go battle master and then multiclass to some caster - whick one could be the best option?
3. or go paladin with devotion\vengence oath and then multiclass to sorc (9th lvl spell)\warlock (blade lock sems to be so cool in a roleplay theme)?

So i was wodering for the best of these 3 options and propper thoughts why should i stop at some point at one class and switch to another (for e.x. 6 at paladin and go to sorc 14 to get 9th lvl spell at lvl 20).

[Balor777]

You want a mechanism to protect the allies OR having a hard to be killed character?

[KristofCarrot]

You want a mechanism to protect the allies OR having a hard to be killed character?

As per now it seems to have a good (not best) demage + so-so mobility + being not easy to be killed is the best option for "tank".
That's what im looking for.

[Balor777]

As per now it seems to have a good (not best) demage + so-so mobility + being not easy to be killed is the best option for "tank".
That's what im looking for.




Another good way is to dip 1 level in barbar to get you CON as AC too.It will happen later but you will have 22AC with a shield without even wearing armor.
With elf you will have at 5 level 19AC increasing every 2 levels to 22 AC at level 13.Which is VERY good.Find a +2 shield later and youll rock 24AC.
Take the duelist style from fighter for a good +2 damage with each attack too
This 1lvlbarb/X level fighter(Eldrich knight maybe for some spells too?) will attack for 3d8+15+6 at lvl12 with a good 149 hp 22AC and some spells too.
Also when you run out of spells OR you really need to become a SUPERTANK go into rage for 50% damage reduction from the tarassque attacks(and from the other
70% MM enemies).

Ill play this guy some time.He is versatile as ___.

[KristofCarrot]

Another good way is to dip 1 level in barbar to get you CON as AC too.It will happen later but you will have 22AC with a shield without even wearing armor.
With elf you will have at 5 level 19AC increasing every 2 levels to 22 AC at level 13.Which is VERY good.Find a +2 shield later and youll rock 24AC.
Take the duelist style from fighter for a good +2 damage with each attack too
This 1lvlbarb/X level fighter(Eldrich knight maybe for some spells too?) will attack for 3d8+15+6 at lvl12 with a good 149 hp 22AC and some spells too.
Also when you run out of spells OR you really need to become a SUPERTANK go into rage for 50% damage reduction from the tarassque attacks(and from the other
70% MM enemies).

Ill play this guy some time.He is versatile as ___.

good idea to work with, thx for an advice!

btw, if i get pal 5/blade lock 5, how many attacks i will have? 2 (extra attack and thristing blade dont stuck), 3 (they stuck but once) or 4 (thristing blade for each of extra attacks)?

[Balor777]

I didnt read too much of warlock cause it didnt happen anyone to play one yet.
Mind that the guy above gets 4 attacks at 12 level because eldrich knight can cast haste.Paladin is a
solid choise too but we wont be resislient against physical attacks due do DEX build.

[KristofCarrot]

...Paladin is a
solid choise too but we wont be resislient against physical attacks due do DEX build.

why is that? smth like 16 con - 16 dex - 14 cha is a well rounded MAD, with dex + light armors having 1 AC less then plate ones.

[Balor777]

why is that? smth like 16 con - 16 dex - 14 cha is a well rounded MAD, with dex + light armors having 1 AC less then plate ones.
Thats ok survivability not high survivability.The problem with light armors is that you cap your AC at 19 without the ability to take the heavy armor master feat and plate mail.
20 AC with 3DR is a LOT tougher from 19AC without 3DR.The STR ancient pala with warding aura and heavy armor master is VERY durable but its not a DEX guy.
DEX totem barbar is with shield is SUPER tough but his damage is bad even with a level fighter dip for duelist style(rage damage is +0 with finese attack and you cant use recless attack too)
If we are talking about an average defence melee guy then its ok.But i thought we are talking about a tanky char. :)

[KristofCarrot]

20 AC with 3DR is a LOT tougher from 19AC without 3DR.

What is this 3DR you are talking about?

[Yagyujubei]

good idea to work with, thx for an advice!

btw, if i get pal 5/blade lock 5, how many attacks i will have? 2 (extra attack and thristing blade dont stuck), 3 (they stuck but once) or 4 (thristing blade for each of extra attacks)?

2 only. thirsting blade doesnt stack with any other extra attack abilities. so as a paladin/bladelock your goal is lifedrinker for the CHA dmg added to hits. This ability stacks with Oathbreakers damage aura to pretty great effect. but depending upon your DM you would have to take at least 12 levels in warlock to do it...I'm not sure what a Lock12/Pally8 build would play.

[Garimeth]

What is this 3DR you are talking about?

Heavy Armor feat.

[KristofCarrot]

Heavy Armor feat.

Ignore 3 dmg... well... that's a good thing at starting levels, but later on it will be almost useless.

[OldTrees1]

In my opinion, a Defender is defined by how well they defend their charges.

Ingredients:
1) Paladin of Devotion/Paladin of the Ancients
The Paladin Aura is the only defender feature that protects multiple charges multiple times per round(excluding spells). I excluded the Oath of Vengence and the Oathbreaker Paladins since they do not get a 2nd aura.


2) The Sentinel feat
The Sentinel feat goes without saying but there are 2 variations on how to use it

a) Polearm Master
Polearm Master + Sentinel lets you use your opportunity when an enemy enters xor leaves your reach. As such this allows you to stop 1 foe per round from approaching the charges you are next to. Unfortunately your reach is large enough that enemies can easily maneuver once inside.

b) Shield Master
You get a trip as a bonus action per turn. However since you only get an AoO when an opponent is leaving your reach, you need to position yourself a distance ahead of your charges.

[Phion]

Well bear totem path Barbarian is pretty amazing defender since you half all damage while in rage and barbarians are beefy anyway

variant human for starting feat sentinel, level 4 toughness and then put ability scores later on in anything you want

keep in mind while in rage its kind of like your health doubles in a way. Also at a level put a level into rouge since you can skill expertise athletics + anything else you want (honestly stealth, no reason why you have to be a one trick pony) thus while raging at level 6 you can use one of your attacks to knock a creature prone (combat advantage to the party) or grapple with advantage (for now lets say +9 with advantage). Become insane tank who also is amazing at other stuff that is useful.

[Garimeth]

Ignore 3 dmg... well... that's a good thing at starting levels, but later on it will be almost useless.

Oh I agree, just answering your question.

[Balor777]

Ignore 3 dmg... well... that's a good thing at starting levels, but later on it will be almost useless.
Its -3hp from every attack.
Its a bit tricky to realise how good it is:
-An evil warlord(Fighter) attacking you at 3 lvl lets say he has 18STR and a Greatsword including misses he deals: (11-3)x50/100 Damage Per Round.
You suffer 4DPR(You mitigated 3 damage)
-You fight the guy's cousin at 5 level, he is a fighter too.He now deals with 18 STR: (2d6+4 -3) x 2 because he attacks twice. He now deals including misses average 8DPR.
You suffer 8DPR(You mitigated 6 damage)
-You fight the guy's brother at 11 level.This guy now has 20 str and he has +9 to hit.So attacking 3 times for (2d6+5 -3)x3 total and he now has 45% chances to hit.
You now suffer per round 13 dpr(You mitigated 9 damage) But this time he is not alone.He had other 6 guys with him.3 of them are attacking you and the other three
are attacking the other 2 guys from your party.This guys attack for 1d8+3.Three attacks for (1d8+3-3)*60 chances to miss, you suffered 8 damage(mitigated 3x3 damage)

You see at this round you mitigated 18 damage total.Yes thats just from one round.You pala has 120 hp.
Fighting like this for 2 rounds you mitigated 2x18 =32 damage.And because you droped 1 or two from the lesser guys ill add 12 damage for the next round.
Total 44 damage just from ONE fight.You have finished the fight with 65 hp left,Meaning you can give another fight like this the exact same moment.
The same "you" without this feat would finish the fight with 21 hp left.
Vs one great enemy its not that good alltho big enemis do many attacks most of the time.
On the other hand you can rush though a Goblin village taking average 1hp per hit.
At 5 level you can tank and wipe a pack of 8 wolves solo with plate armor and shield.Mind this is a XP: 1,200 Deadly encounter.(At htis fight you will mitigate around 130hp.Yes i did the math)
EDIT:8wolves you make it, 9 wolves you die. :)
And guess what you dont care abouth disadvantage with this feat.
Its a very handy feat and no matter how high youll go on levels the 70-80% from the MM enemies wont attack with magical weapons.

[Scarab112]

If you dip 6 levels into Abjuration Wizard, you can get a temporary shield to help protect your allies that refreshes whenever you cast an Abjuration spell. Combo that with Eldritch Knight and you've got a passable swordmage.

[The Shadowdove]

Shield style paladin of the ancients.

Protection fighting style makes it so anything within 5 feet of you that attacks an ally has disadvantage.

Not only are you tanky, but you can heal.

Oath of the ancients Paladins gain an aura at level 7 that reduces damage of of spells against allies by half.

Variant human is a good idea to get a quick sentinel.

Then shield master later so you can shove people and take less damage from stuff.


Toughness Is a maybe later on if you want more tankiness.

I don't know how many times our little paladin has shoved people off of things. She has a thing for sneaking up on archers or casters who are on a ledge or similar vantage point.