question: magic arrows vs. DR

[thatwolfguy]

I'm not entirely sure how damage reduction (DR) works, i know there is something that looks like +/10 or something like that that tells if you need to be using magic weapons or how much damage you need to hit things, etc. I don't worry too much about that part, but if anyone knows it well, or knows what book has an explanation of that and where, i'd be glad to look it up...

Here is my real question:

we were fighting a dragon that had some kind of DR that apparently a certain level of magic damage could overcome. I was shooting +1 magic arrows (because i'm an arcane archer, DMG p176, all my arrows become +1 magic) and I'm using a +3 magic bow. he told me that my +3 magic from the bow did not count towards overcoming the dragon's DR, only the +1 from the arrows counted towards that. Can someone please direct me to the proper source book that explains that part so I can look it up and understand it, and if my DM is incorrect, so that I can properly document the correction?

thanks immensly

Dave / That Wolf Guy

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It sounds like you might be playing 3.0?

3.0:

In 3.0 enhancement bonuses from bow and arrow stack, unlike in 3.5 where only the best count.
DMG 3.0, page 183.

In 3.0 damage reduction also worked differently and you would need a certain enhancement to overcome DR.
Example if a creature has DR 10/+3 you need a +3 magic weapon to overcome it.
DMG 3.0, page 73.



3.5:

The relevant 3.5 rules are as follows:

Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.
Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).



DAMAGE REDUCTION

Some magic creatures have the supernatural ability to instantly heal damage from weapons or to ignore blows altogether as though they were invulnerable.
The numerical part of a creature’s damage reduction is the amount of hit points the creature ignores from normal attacks. Usually, a certain type of weapon can overcome this reduction. This information is separated from the damage reduction number by a slash. Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, by magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment. If a dash follows the slash then the damage reduction is effective against any attack that does not ignore damage reduction.
Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).
Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.
Attacks that deal no damage because of the targetÂ’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells.
Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.
Sometimes damage reduction is instant healing. Sometimes damage reduction represents the creature’s tough hide or body,. In either case, characters can see that conventional attacks don’t work.
If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.

[thatwolfguy]

thanks a million - from what you posted above, i get the following:

a 3.0 version of that dragon might have had a DR of 15/+4, which means that if you have +4 magic, it takes full damage, if not, it does not take the first 15 points of damage

a 3.5 version of that dragon might have a DR of 15/magic, which means if you have a magic weapon, it takes full damage, if not it does not take the first 15 points of damage

a 3.0 version of my character with a +3 bow and +1 arrows would be shooting for +4 magic, thus overcoming a DR of ##/+4 or lower, but if facing a dragon with DR ##/+5, the damage would be reduced by whatever the ## is.

a 3.5 version of my character with a +3 bow and +1 arrows would be shooting +3 magic for the purpose of facing a 3.0 monster's DR, but since he'd most likely be facing a 3.5 version of the dragon, would be shooting "MAGIC" which should overcome any ##/magic DR.

is there such a thing as DR ##/epic?

[Vik]

You're correct, and yes, there are monsters with DR X / Epic, the Tarrasque being one of them.

[Zherog]

a 3.0 version of my character with a +3 bow and +1 arrows would be shooting for +4 magic, thus overcoming a DR of ##/+4 or lower, but if facing a dragon with DR ##/+5, the damage would be reduced by whatever the ## is.

Not quite. The bespectacled beholder missed one really important detail for describing the 3.0 damage reduction in relation to bows and ammuntion.

In 3.0 only the enhancement bonus on the arrow counted towards overcoming damage reduction.

In 3.5, it doesn't matter if the enhancement bonus comes from the bow or the ammunition.

So that's why your DM said you couldn't bypass DR.

[Variable Arcana]

Also worth noting that in 3.5 you'd be wasting money firing +1 arrows from a +3 bow.

[Zherog]

Except he didn't buy those arrows; it's a class feature of the arcane archer. Instead of wasting money, you're wasting a class feature. :smallbiggrin:

[Variable Arcana]

Oh. In that case, waste away.

[thatwolfguy]

Also worth noting that in 3.5 you'd be wasting money firing +1 arrows from a +3 bow.

does the bonus not stack for purposes of total bonus to hit and total bonus for damage?

[Rigeld2]

Not in 3.5 it doesnt. You take the higher one and use it.

[Zherog]

Right. In 3.5 enhancement bonuses do not stack.

However... special abilities do. Let's say you have a +3 holy bow, and you fire a +1 flaming arrow. If it hits the target (and if the target is evil), you'll get +3 to hit and to damage, you'll do 1d6 points of fire damage, and 2d6 points of holy damage.

Magic arrows with different special abilities are generally a good idea. Getting bane is cool - but it doesn't always apply. Instead, get a bunch of different bane arrows and use them according to what you're shooting. Same thing with flaming - most of the time, adding in 1d6 fire damage is great; sometimes, though, it's not. If the flaming is on your arrows instead of your bow, you can easily control when it's used.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

The bespectacled beholder missed one really important detail...

Yes, I apologize, that should have been spelled out.

[Zherog]

No worries. I got yer (round, slimy) back. :smallwink: