Would this make Shifters OP?

[Outback]

So I was thinking, would it make Shifters (from Eberron) overpowered if their "shift" power was a permanent thing instead? So no longer have your thing for 3+Conmod rounds, but all the time. Obviously Razorclaws would have it like cats do, claws extendable at will. Also I imagine Longtooth not walking around like a monkey with a shark's dentures. The stat boost would also become a permanent (so they'd have +2Dex/+2X/-2In/-2Ch).

Not trying to get overpowered, just want to hear what "the community" thinks of this before I bring it up at my next game night.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

You would need to change how the shifter feats work, but I doubt it'd be overpowered.

[Andezzar]

Exactly, a few natural weapons and stat boosts are hardly overpowered. If you are really afraid it could be too powerful, slap LA +1 on it. Look at the draconic template for comparison.

[Outback]

Thanks folks.

[Troacctid]

I don't think it's a good solution, because it kind of violates the basic concept of shifters--they're supposed to shift. Having them in one form all the time screws that up.

I do think increasing the frequency of their transformations is a good idea, though. What if you made it per hour rather than per day?

[Outback]

I think having it permanent makes them sort of like a Lycanthrope-lite version of their bitey ancestors. I dunno it's just the whole deal with limited time that stops me from enjoying playing Shifters. Perhaps as Barbarians Rage in Pathfinder, make it rounds per day instead? edit: Could even add 2/3 rounds per Shifter feat taken.

[Zaq]

I don't think it's a good solution, because it kind of violates the basic concept of shifters--they're supposed to shift. Having them in one form all the time screws that up.

Part of me wants to agree with this, but a bigger part of me wants to say that you should never let fluff get in the way of mechanics.

I think we can agree that, at a minimum, they do need way the hell more uses of shifting. Per hour is one way of doing it, though I personally prefer per encounter, just because that way it's easier to keep track of it.

Splitting the difference, you might take a leaf from 4e's book and say that shifting kicks in whenever they're at 50% HP or lower (and then for the rest of the encounter, even if they get healed). No daily use limit.

[LTwerewolf]

The way we solved it was it was usable at will, but took a standard action to start it and lasted the number of rounds. At the end of those rounds they would shift back and they'd need another standard action to start it again.

[Andezzar]

I think we can agree that, at a minimum, they do need way the hell more uses of shifting. Per hour is one way of doing it, though I personally prefer per encounter, just because that way it's easier to keep track of it.If you have a least one shift per encounter it is de facto at will.


Splitting the difference, you might take a leaf from 4e's book and say that shifting kicks in whenever they're at 50% HP or lower (and then for the rest of the encounter, even if they get healed). No daily use limit.This changes the flavor pretty much. IMHO this is a similarly large change as lettig the shifters be shifted all the time.


The way we solved it was it was usable at will, but took a standard action to start it and lasted the number of rounds. At the end of those rounds they would shift back and they'd need another standard action to start it again.I like it. Much closer in flavor to the RAW shifters in flavor and without the weird 1/day restriction. A feat/class feature to downgrade the required action to a move or swift action would be nice.

[Coidzor]

So I was thinking, would it make Shifters (from Eberron) overpowered if their "shift" power was a permanent thing instead? So no longer have your thing for 3+Conmod rounds, but all the time. Obviously Razorclaws would have it like cats do, claws extendable at will. Also I imagine Longtooth not walking around like a monkey with a shark's dentures. The stat boost would also become a permanent (so they'd have +2Dex/+2X/-2In/-2Ch).

Not trying to get overpowered, just want to hear what "the community" thinks of this before I bring it up at my next game night.

Interesting. I was thinking more at-will when I was going that way. There's a bit of precedent, though, at least, with Darfellans who are descended from were-orcas and were-dolphins the same way that shifters are descended from a whole mess of other lycanthropes.

I think you may be part of the way on to making shifters into a template rather than a base race with this sort of change, though.


The way we solved it was it was usable at will, but took a standard action to start it and lasted the number of rounds. At the end of those rounds they would shift back and they'd need another standard action to start it again.

I like this idea. :smallsmile: And the idea of a feat to reduce the action and/or the action reducing automagically after hitting certain HD benchmarks.

[manyslayer]

There's a bit of precedent, though, at least, with Darfellans who are descended from were-orcas and were-dolphins the same way that shifters are descended from a whole mess of other lycanthropes.

I was going to ask where does it say this but then found it under the monster description for Darfellans that they are descended from were-orcas, but nowhere in the race description section. Kind of weird oversight.

[Optimator]

Yeah, you should be in the clear. Hardly overpowered.

[ZamielVanWeber]

It would make shifter feats a lot less attractive, other than that there are a lot worse floating around at +0.

[Outback]

I still think my edited idea from my last post might work nicely. X+Con rounds/day (not necesairily consecutive), then 2 more for every shifter Feat you take. Like the Barbarian from Pathfinder, except not 2 more rounds every level, as that might become too much. You still need to take those Shifter feats to improve your goodies. I'll suggest it to my group next time I see them.

[Flickerdart]

If you're worried about shifters not being "shifters" if they don't shift, just let them shift for indefinite periods of time, like a lycanthrope. That also solves the teeth and claws problem - presumably they will be in their normal form when walking around town.

[Solaris]

If you're worried about shifters not being "shifters" if they don't shift, just let them shift for indefinite periods of time, like a lycanthrope. That also solves the teeth and claws problem - presumably they will be in their normal form when walking around town.

I'd be okay with this one. To be honest, a shifter is kinda sub-par when he's not shifted - that he has a limited use per day to be standard is a bit of a kick in the pants.

I wouldn't mind seeing shifter feats being more worth taking, either.

[Coidzor]

I was going to ask where does it say this but then found it under the monster description for Darfellans that they are descended from were-orcas, but nowhere in the race description section. Kind of weird oversight.

Oh, yeah. I remember running into that last time I looked them up for some backstory stuff and thought I must have imagined it until I checked the other section.

Weird editing decisions, ho!

[stack]

Just thought I would reference Pathfinder's shifter substitute, the skinwalkers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp/skinwalkers-10-rp). Very similar to shifters, but get to stay shifted an indefinite period, useable 3+1/2 level times per day. Seems to work fine for them, doubt it would cause any problems for a shifter.

[eggynack]

The interaction with druids could be pretty crazy. You do all of that normal shifter druid stuff, which is probably at par with just about any other druid race, except now you're running a wisdom bonus as well as always on speak with animals. The former is obviously good, and the latter interacts quite well with summons and the companion alike.