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Eaglejarl
2015-01-29, 02:58 PM
EDIT: I just now realized that I posted this in the general 'Roleplaying' forum by mistake, when I meant to put it in the 3.5 forum. Do I have the option to move it?
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I am trying to design an army for a story based on the 3.5 rules and I could use some help. The Legion in question is heavy infantry of about 3500 fighters (it's supposed to be 8000, but it's currently understrength at about 3500 because reasons), built on a Roman model; I'm trying to decide what auxiliaries should be attached.


Background:

This army is from a very large empire, so any classes, races, and source books are open. The empire is high-magic, but the vast majority of people with significant character levels do not want to do military service, so the soldiers are all about 4th level and the auxiliaries are, for the most part, <= 10th level. There are a few who are higher, including one or two mages / priests / whatever who are capable of 9th level spells, but that power level is sharply restricted. Unusual classes (anything not listed on d20srd) will be rare and probably not available at high levels -- call it in the 1x 7th level spell range.

The only restriction is no psionics or Epic.

The normal enemies for this Legion are barbarian tribes and occasionally another professional army of similar composition.

The Legion is stationed in a high mountain pass with a swamp in the middle of it caused by significant waterflow from a lake at a higher elevation. This was known when they were stationed there, so the composition of their auxiliaries might have been modified to work with it.

So far I've decided on the following breakdown; I'd appreciate other suggestions.

Wizards (Standard tactical role: blasters, battlefield control, out-of-battle divination)
- 1 archmage (level 17; his primary job is to have a Teleportation Circle ready if the Legion needs to move)
- 17 High Master mages (levels 11-16)
- 46 Master Mages (levels 7-10)
- 129 Mage (levels 1-6)

Clerics (Standard tactical role: buffing shock troops, summoning; post-battle healing / disease prevention)
- 38 high master priests (11-16)
- 22 master priests (6-10)
- 180 priests (1-5)

Druids (Standard tactical role: scouting via avian animal companions, shock troops when Wild Shaped)
- 1 : level 9
- 9 : levels 5-7
- 18: levels 1-4


If there are tactical roles that I've missed, or better ways that you would use the characters listed, please let me know.

Mr.Sandman
2015-01-29, 03:26 PM
Warlock is in Complete Arcane. I would consider some Teamwork Benefits (Players Handbook 2) for infantry, specifically Team Shield Maneuver, Wall of Steel, and Team Melee Tactics fit Roman tactics rather well. Given a large number of Druids, especially with lower than standard troop numbers, I would put quite a bit of Natures Ally's on the field, (probably Elementals personally for a http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Alera] ( [url) Codex Alera[/url] feel). The more time they are taking attacks, the more time your troops have to ranged and recover. Maybe scatter some Bards throughout for extra buffing, in fact Fighter/Bards could work well as Officers. Don't forget to use Message and similar as lines of communication during battle, Raven Familiars too, if you can stop them from being shot down.

Eaglejarl
2015-01-30, 12:15 AM
Thank you, much appreciated. I'll check over the Team feats...they aren't something I was familiar with, but they sound right on target.

Erik Vale
2015-01-30, 05:08 AM
There's the spell Blizzard, it's great for mages vs armies, covers several hundred square feet. Should be in it's cold outside.

Edit: Found it.
If armies are mostly level 4, they should quickly find themselves sucumbing to non-lethal damage, or struggling to deal with the large amount of snow the spell generates.
You'll need to make sure the melt water doesn't harm any of your cities/etc though, which could limit it's usage.

However, if you're guarding a pass, are you able to just wall of stone it until it doesn't exist?

neonchameleon
2015-01-30, 01:06 PM
One of the most important roles in your army is Bard. With bagpipes/an alphorn/anything that can be heard from a long way away. Even a level 4 Bard with a feat (Song of the Heart - Eberron, may replace Inspire Competence), a spell (I forget), and an Item (Medallion of Courage? MIC) can hand out a +4 to hit and damage. To the entire army. Even light crossbows in the hands of the rank and file are utterly lethal to anyone without significant magical protection at this point.

Bob of Mage
2015-01-30, 02:15 PM
I'd replace some of the low level wizards you plan to use for blasting with Warmages (Complete Arcane). Warmages get d6s and limited armour (can use and cast in light armour and light shields, and at 8th level medium armour) and weapon (all simple weapons) useage at the cost of support spells (so no teleporting for example). They really fit the role of fighting on the front lines better than a bunch of wizards in robes. Of course there's still a great need for magic at other times (counter magic for example) so there would still be many wizards.

The Knight (Player's Handbook II) and Marshal (Miniatures Handbook) might make some good officers. The Marshals have things like auras that buff the men they lead. Knights would be better in the mounted units, and as the class any nobles in the army might have. The are big on honour and can call out a foe to fight one-on-one (great if you can call out a high ranking enemy leader and take him down).

Heros of Battle has some nice info for working with big armies.

If your army is setup in an area for a long time you need to have them set up plenty of defences. So things like walls and pits, but nothing too big unless they are there for a long time, or it's impportant to hold the pass. Since there's a swamp in the middle of the pass I would set up the troops so that they control the only dry paths. Ethier spread them out if there's a number of paths, or if there is only one good path have them camp on it. If there is no good land, you can have the army use magic to build some. This army should have been there for awhile, fought over the land more then once, and be perpared to defend it again.

Rakaydos
2015-01-30, 10:33 PM
For the record, romans only have 1 level of fighter, and use it to pick up improved grapple. lever 2 and up is rogue. With tower shield, they dvance into the opponent's space, grapple, then use their light weapn (short sword) with sneak attack while grappled, while the opponent cant use heavier weaponry.

givine close formations vulnerability to blasts, give the centurions AMFs.

Coidzor
2015-01-31, 05:18 AM
Wizards (Standard tactical role: blasters, battlefield control, out-of-battle divination)
- 1 archmage (level 17; his primary job is to have a Teleportation Circle ready if the Legion needs to move)

This guy means that everyone else there? They're just there to prevent anything from distracting him from taking care of business. Or saving him a bit of time in making the necessary numbers of minions to provide damage output.


- 17 High Master mages (levels 11-16)

If it weren't for the level 17 wizard, that statement would apply to any one of these guys.


Clerics (Standard tactical role: buffing shock troops, summoning; post-battle healing / disease prevention)
- 38 high master priests (11-16)

Or these guys for that matter.

Anything capable of challenging even the weakest of these guys is going to be... problematic, to say the least, for anything else you could give the legionnaires. The 9th level Druid is also pretty close to these guys and there are a few things he'd be better suited to doing than some of the 11th to 13th level wizards or clerics. Like dropping Blizzards on people.

Erik Vale
2015-01-31, 05:28 AM
Like dropping Blizzards on people.

They also provide spell slots.

As to the bit I quoted though, Blizzard is just to stop people from walking over with lots of little people. Plomp a bunch of widened Blizzards around and coat the pass with ridiculous amounts of snow, and making it so anyone who moves through it too slowly at too low a level falls unconscious and dies.

Against anyone of note, Blizzard is useless. Against the level 4 hordes, it's as good as the mountain growing several hindered kilometres and being the nest to a ridiculous number of hungry high level beasties.

WarKitty
2015-01-31, 05:43 AM
The big thing is the introduction of magic would work against massed armies. They're too vulnerable to AoE spells. Small, warded groups are better.

Beleriphon
2015-01-31, 12:39 PM
If 17th level wizards are standard part of army composition then the enemy "army" starts to look a lot like a typical D&D adventuring party. Wizards, any spellcaster, at that level aren't soldiers they're a WMD with a brain.

GGambrel
2015-01-31, 05:38 PM
I personally don't imagine most Druids are patriotic enough to join the army, but obviously it depends on the setting. As others have said, the existence of high-level area of effect spells (evocations, conjurations, and illusions) and many-target buffs (bards, dragon shamans, etc) will have a significant effect on warfare in the setting described. Negating or eliminating enemy casters is clearly a high priority, though different armies may have different tactics for doing so (counter-spelling, assassins, preventing rest, etc). Additionally, wands and high-level scrolls would be an important resource to prevent casters from running out of spells, though I suppose high-level scrolls would be pricey enough to be more of a last resort.

As far as auxilary support goes, might the army recruit/coerce members of different (barbarous) races such as lizardmen who are more at home in the local environment? They might be able to travel through terrain which conventional troops would be unable to, making them good at flanking enemy troops.

Another thing that occurs to me with the levels you've described is that archers with flying mounts, golems, and dominated monsters seem like reasonable possibilities. I'm kind of imagining a WarCraft 3 sort of battlefield, actually.

Oh! And of course Polymorph Any Object to turn your regular weakling (LV 4) infantrymen into Ogres/Centaurs/Gargoyles/something... permanently! (or until dispelled) Those might count as auxilary units I suppose.

Milodiah
2015-01-31, 05:55 PM
As has been stated, conventional 1st-generation warfare is nigh-impossible when D&D-style magic is introduced into the mix. I'd love to see the kind of computerized battle simulations that have been applied to Classic Traveller with D&D, just so everyone would see what it really becomes. If you thought machine-guns, chemical warfare, revolutionized artillery, fast-firing rifles, and everything else that broke World War I was bad, then you've never seen a level 15+ wizard in this situation played to its full potential.

Tight formations of low level melee fighters will essentially be bowling pins for powerful magic users, and the only challenge will be competing with the other wizards for stuff like "goriest execution method" or "most creative spell use". Because wizards are tactical nuclear weapons. Tactical nuclear weapons that have dial-a-yield capabilities, fortification capabilities, instant transportation capabilities, mind control capabilities, and all sorts of other ridiculously diverse crap that I hesitate to even call them weapons, they're more a Swiss Army knife that happens to have a few kiloton-yield tactical nukes on one of the flip-out parts.

I talked to a simply fantastic DM about the issue once, and unfortunately I forgot most of what he said. One thing that I do remember, though, is that he insisted that for an average level 2 or 3 infantryman, a smoke grenade is just as essential a piece of kit as the sword and the shield. Why?

Line of sight.

It's a prerequisite to several, if not most, spells, and not being able to see the target shuts a wizard down. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe scrying is an acceptable alternative to physical line of sight. An infantryman can march through smoke; a properly-used longbowman in such a large scale battle doesn't need to see his target if it's an entire formation, only know they are there (contrary to popular belief, they weren't snipers, but instead light artillery). But casters can't do what they do if smoke, darkness, fog, or other sight-blocking conditions are obscuring line of sight (assuming they don't have a spell to undo that, which they probably will).

Beleriphon
2015-01-31, 06:25 PM
It's a prerequisite to several, if not most, spells, and not being able to see the target shuts a wizard down. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe scrying is an acceptable alternative to physical line of sight. An infantryman can march through smoke; a properly-used longbowman in such a large scale battle doesn't need to see his target if it's an entire formation, only know they are there (contrary to popular belief, they weren't snipers, but instead light artillery). But casters can't do what they do if smoke, darkness, fog, or other sight-blocking conditions are obscuring line of sight (assuming they don't have a spell to undo that, which they probably will).

Or just default to area of effect damage when all else fails. Sure Magic Missile needs line of sight, just like a gun, but Meteor Swarm sure doesn't nor does Fireball (in so far as it doesn't target a specific creature). Lets not get into crazy pants things like Earthquake.

dps
2015-01-31, 06:45 PM
As has been stated, conventional 1st-generation warfare is nigh-impossible when D&D-style magic is introduced into the mix. I'd love to see the kind of computerized battle simulations that have been applied to Classic Traveller with D&D, just so everyone would see what it really becomes. If you thought machine-guns, chemical warfare, revolutionized artillery, fast-firing rifles, and everything else that broke World War I was bad, then you've never seen a level 15+ wizard in this situation played to its full potential.

Tight formations of low level melee fighters will essentially be bowling pins for powerful magic users, and the only challenge will be competing with the other wizards for stuff like "goriest execution method" or "most creative spell use". Because wizards are tactical nuclear weapons. Tactical nuclear weapons that have dial-a-yield capabilities, fortification capabilities, instant transportation capabilities, mind control capabilities, and all sorts of other ridiculously diverse crap that I hesitate to even call them weapons, they're more a Swiss Army knife that happens to have a few kiloton-yield tactical nukes on one of the flip-out parts.


Even leaving out the problems that come from the "quadratic wizards/linear fighter" problems, the number and level of spellcasters here is way too high for the level of the rest of the army (in fact, with that much magical firepower, you don't really need an army, though to be honest, as has been pointed out, in a high-magic setting armies become problematic anyway). If the soldiers are around 4th level, then that should be the very upper range for any spellcasters attached. For an 8000 man army, I'm thinking a dozen spellcasters would be about right, and most of tem 1st or 2nd level clerics who are basically healbots. And it's not entirely a balance issue, either--there's a logic to it given what you've said about the setting; if the vast majority of people don't want to serve in the military in the first place, then that sentiment should go double for high-level casters.

sktarq
2015-01-31, 06:56 PM
Well besides that many magic users only needing troops for picket duty and body armour I'll try to get toyou original ideas.

Warmages, Marshalls, and Bards all would get a big boost from me for reasons that others have already said.
Also scouts (either from Complete Adventurer or montane specialist Rangers) good for keeping an eye on a spot for extended periods and making sure local area is as secure as expected.

Probably a few cavalry. Possibly entirely auxilleries. They are useful tool in battle as well as acting as messengers. Possibly non horse cav if you want to give it a higher fantasy feel that would better in montane regions. Also very useful in traffic control and being able to intimidate people in general.

Alpine specialists-possible overlap with the scouts but have climbing, X-country ski, etc type feats/equipment/skills

Build team-so 3500 people plus Auxilleries plus support personnel- probably 5-10K people -they will need shelter, roads, etc. People who specialize in building such field bridges, camp emplacements, walls, etc and probably second as sappers. Probable overlap with several mage from that core.

Logistics protection. How to all these people get fed? A regular train of wagons to feed and otherwise supply them will be a minimum. And those wagons (or higher magic equiv) will need guarding.

Eaglejarl
2015-02-02, 04:07 AM
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the advice.

I'm a little curious...I'm aware of the whole quadratic / linear thing and in a small scale battle wizards definitely stomp. I've heard (variations on) this statement that "one high level mage can beat an army" and I've always wondered about it. How do you see the following matchups going? You don't have to do them all -- pick whatever combo(s) you want.


Bad guys: 5000x 5th level fighters with chain, shield, longsword, longbow, plenty of arrows.

or

Bad guys: 5000x Mixed force of wraiths, shadows, ghouls. (Note that the incorporeal creatures would attack from underground)

vs

Good guys: 1x 17th level bog-standard wizard

or

Good guys: 10x 12th level wizards

or

Good guys: 10x 12th level druids


Let's keep it simple and leave out feats and magic items...just bog-standard characters on both sides. The good guys aren't allowed to run away -- they have a fixed objective to protect (say, a building), and if the bad guys get to it, the good guys lose. Assume the mountain pass scenario above -- swamp in the middle, but dry areas on either side that can be used to get around the swamp. Objective is on dry ground at the opposite end of the valley from where the bad guys come in.


I suppose the 17th level wizard could use Gate to call some super-powerful outsider...is that the only insta-win condition, or can it work without that?

Do the casters still win if they aren't allowed to use metamagic?

Erik Vale
2015-02-02, 05:00 AM
1:
Blizzard. It's a fifth level spell, so you can cast it allot. Burry them.
Literally, you generate a foot of snow each round, for [assuming level 17] 17 rounds. You can't get out of the way fast enough as a level 5 mundane. The spells range + flight means archery won't help. The wizard spots your unit, moves above you, and puts you in the center of a blizzard. He repeats the spell until you're either unconcious from damage, or you're buried and suffocating under a mesa [I think. Maybe plateau? I don't want to call this just a hill] of snow.

2:
They're all under 9 HD right?
Incorporeal Nova/[The Corporeal Undead killing spell], Repeat as necessary while your large amounts of money make you immune to them.

For 3 etc, I'll likely get to them tomorrow, mostly due to the bog standard clause meaning I don't wade in with contingencies.
It may be worth posting your bog standard rules here for people who don't vaguely remember them off the top of their head, I'm assuming you're talking two year emperor [and that they're not level 60 because this isn't Flobovia.].

Coidzor
2015-02-02, 05:09 AM
I suppose the 17th level wizard could use Gate to call some super-powerful outsider...is that the only insta-win condition, or can it work without that?

A wizard of sufficient level that is capable of casting Ice Assassin or Simulacrum can start on the path to having a horde of angels on speed dial without using Gate. And once they have an Ice Assassin of a Solar, that Solar can use its Wish SLA to freely make simulacrums for the wizard. Or a Mirror Mephit can just make Simulacrums ad nauseum.


Do the casters still win if they aren't allowed to use metamagic?

Define metagame. Oh. Wait. Metamagic? :smallconfused: Yeah. You can destroy an army without metamagic. It makes a few things *easier* to use metamagic, but as long as divination to determine that there's an army coming or some other way of having advance warning is on the table, it's in the bag. If an incorporeal creature that can just travel through the ground manages to get the drop on a wizard, it will stand a fairly good chance of being able to enter an area that hasn't been specifically warded against entry by incorporeal creatures through the floor, perhaps by deliberate inclusion of walls of force in the foundations/architecture.

So if merely being able to enter an area that a wizard doesn't want the incorporeal undead to enter is counted as a win, then the undead has a chance, depending upon the leeway in preparation the wizard has, iirc.


EDIT: I just now realized that I posted this in the general 'Roleplaying' forum by mistake, when I meant to put it in the 3.5 forum. Do I have the option to move it?

Report your post and ask for a moderator to move it to the appropriate subforum, IIRC. The rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1) should state the procedure in them as well somewhere.

Forrestfire
2015-02-02, 09:20 AM
I think the most important thing that the high-level mages here can do isn't open warfare, but logistics. There are two hugely important spells here, Control Weather and Fimbulwinter. In actual combat, the wizards can likely gain access to Control Winds to make tornadoes, and as stated, Blizzard.

However, I'd say that the most efficient use of the wizard's time is to teleport into the sky above the enemy camp, and cast Fimbulwinter or Control Weather. This will likely just outright win the coming battles, if they even make it to the battles. For the wraiths, shadows, and ghouls, it's a bit harder, but as stated, Incorporeal Nova is incredibly useful in actual battles (and tornadoes, hailstorms, blizzards, and hurricane-force winds are likely to wreck the ghouls).

Eaglejarl
2015-02-02, 04:32 PM
1:
It may be worth posting your bog standard rules here for people who don't vaguely remember them off the top of their head, I'm assuming you're talking two year emperor [and that they're not level 60 because this isn't Flobovia.].

Basically, I just mean "using only things found on d20srd.org that aren't psionic or epic." In other words, no prestige classes, feats, or unusual races, etc. Given the existence of Pun-Pun, it's obvious that a wizard is literally a god if you allow enough stuff into the discussion. I'm curious what can be done with a restricted ruleset.

And yes, this is for a 2YE spinoff, by which I mean "it uses some of the characters and some of the setting, all of which are original to me." I'll be selling it, so it's not using any actual D&D copyrighted material -- I'm asking here in order to get ideas for what kinds of things casters might do in a military situation.

Forrestfire
2015-02-02, 05:22 PM
Well, even in core, that level 17 wizard can Overland Flight and then either fly or (Greater) Teleport to a mile above the enemy's camps or supply lines, then cast Control Weather. Repeat each day. Any living army is basically screwed. The level 13+ mages can do this too.

The undead army is harder, but overall, the Wizard has access to Gate, and can chain-gate angels to deal with them if he wants. It's likely they'll come to his aid, to deal with such a large horde of undead and the effect they have on the world.

ExLibrisMortis
2015-02-02, 06:26 PM
Well, you'd probably want a bard/marshal/ToB commander using Leading the Charge to buff charges. You can dip marshal 1 to get cha to charge damage rolls, leading the charge adds IL to charge damage, Inspire Courage is +1 or +2 depending on your level, plus magic items and Song of the Heart. Note that you're not going to charge quickly, because you need to stay in range, but with one attack per round, charging is the way to go.

Say, Crusader X/Bard Y/Marshal 1. If Y = 3, you can pick up Song of the Heart instead of Inspire Competence without using a feat. If X + Y > 8, you get inspire courage +2 (with Song of the White Raven), but for me that's too high for a decurion/centurion type guy (I'd say, 20ish soldiers for each of these commanders). If you're staying low level, the paladin substitution level that provides inspire courage +1 instead of detect evil is perfect. Even just Crusader 1/Paladin 1/Marshal 1 is nice. 2 + cha to charge damage rolls, +2 to attack and damage rolls (Song of the Heart as third-level feat). Hard to take down, too.

Of course, the concerns about wizards still stand. I'm assuming they're busy bothering eachother, leaving the soldiers to just do soldier things - that's why I conveniently ignored the auxiliaries. Because really, asking for the auxilaries of those levels, to accompany that army, is a bit like saying: "They have this much cattle and necro-stuff (like, wight-seeds?) to work with". Oh, and this is not SRD. But SRD is boring for commanders :(.

Erik Vale
2015-02-03, 12:19 AM
d20srd.org
Ah, that removes blizard.
Ok here's how I'd do it, if I was a lone level 17 wizard [attacking or defending.]

My assumptions:
- TYE gods dislike constant spamming of Commune or Contact Other Plane, and therefore I'm not allowed to use it every day, particularly to ask the same questions.
- No infinite loops that require no effort to sustain. As has been shown in the TYE, you tend to be killed for performing them.
- WBL, and NPC WBL for followers/cohorts. This is because that's all they're willing to dedicate to this, as they have their own lives to consider.
- No candles of invocation [I assume the gods banned that item once it was abused by the emperor.].

And as usual, note that this is at most, the plans of someone with a 13 int, possibly with a +2 circumstance bonus for knowing the rules better than the wizard is likely to.

Good Guy Wizard General Information:
I don't want to screw up the weather.
Everyone knows not to pass through this pass on pain of death.
I'm level 17, with a Int of at least 24.

Spell Prepared:
-Contact other Plane*5
-Planar Binding*9
-Greater Planar Binding*3
-Magic Circle vs X*12.

The first thing I've done is set up a line of Permanent Symbol of Insanity across the border, by making very large symbols on large adamantine signs, created by wish from having Planar Bound Efreeti. [Wish trading and being very nice is a wonderful way of making sure this doesn't bite you in the ass. As well as finding out which ones are out of favour or like wish trading]. For this, I've used no unrenewable resources, and it takes up some of my endless amounts of time.

Now, Each day, I use my Contact Other Plane spells to ask the Astral Plane [to avoid annoying gods] to figure out if someones going to cross the border, what they are, how they're prepared, exact times etc. I run the maths to figure out right answers. [Roughly 44% of the answers will be correct, I've 5 castings so up to 42 Questions can be asked [:p]. I should be able to get a fairly good idea.] For fairness, I will have this set up for 18 days in advance, instead of a year. This is so that I have time to swap out my bound creatures.

After having done this loop I go about binding, some generic threatening creatures.
Once I'm alerted to the threat, I bind specific creatures for it.


Now, fighting the 500 men, I simply await invisibly above the area they're supposed to pass, and watch to make sure they all go insane. If they don't, I open with various AOE damaging spells, they're level 5, I have access to days worth of planar bound creatures with the 'Guard this Place' command [so they stay only 17 days at most, since I haven't set a time limit]. The specifics doesn't matter.

Fighting the 5000, it's the same thing but with Undeath to Death. Some undead may still escape, but that's what the army is for.

In each occasion, I also go to whoever would be leading the forces if possible, and give them a chance to turn around. If the attempt was still made, I then drop off some of the corpses.






Now, I'm a level 17 bad guy... Do I need to go through the pass?
*Presumed Yes*
Am I taking someone else through?
*Presumed Yes*
Ok.

Planar Binding to grab some Effreeti wishes available. [I'll use them to wish for a oneshot item of permanency for Teleportation Circle, and a oneshot item of Teleportation Circle]
I prepare a variety of escape methods.

Grabbing a map, I use greater teleport to transport myself some arbitrary distance above the ground at my desired endpoint.
Invisibly and under Misdirection [to prevent various detections] I let myself fall to the ground. When nearly there, I cast Feather Fall and examine the area before I land. I then use Greater Teleport to return home. I haven't even touched the ground on the other side.
Once that is done, I use those one shot items to create a teleportation circle to the end point and make it permanent. Teleportation circles don't leave something to show their endpoint, so it's undetectable from the other side. I send those I was escorting through.


Without Teleportation Circle.
Gate to a safe plane. *Waits for army/other to walk through* Gate to where I wanted to go.

Edit:
Upon Rereading I've determined that the Good Guys may be defending the object I want to attack.
Against the level 17, I need more info.
Against the Wizard/Druid group, I planar bind Planaters/Trumpet Archons, telling them I need to X [A lie most likely] and to do it I need powerful backup. I then use their level 17 cleric casting to bring a arbritrary amount of outsiders through Planar Ally with me on the assualt, likely using the same drop in tactic as above.

Edit: The number of Outsiders is arbitrary because a task at a later date doesn't necessarily cost more through Planar Ally, and costs can be paid by using wish with Efreeti. I will likely use elementals for the attack to maintain the deception. If possible, I use mephits/similar with class levels.


Extra edit:
As to how I stop myself from being ganked by the outsiders I summon.
Never bind anything with access to Trueseeing.
Before each binding session, have my cohort wizard cast Polymorph Any Object and turn me into a small monkey, the sort of thing you'd expect to be created by a Baleful Polymorph, and never use your actual name. Using my Helm of Telepathy, I perform the bindings. [I can speak verbal components, nothing said they couldn't be in monkey.]

I never interact with my bound creatures except as said monkey [that's highly recognisable], and I don't do anything else in monkey form. Now, everyone's looking for the monkey who bound them, not me, who's happily relaxing in my own form wherever I want. I hear [Plane of the god I worship] is nice this time of ever.

Eaglejarl
2015-02-03, 03:00 PM
So, basically the answer is Gate. That's the big Wizard win card. Okay, fair enough.

Thank you, everyone. I appreciate the suggestions.

nedz
2015-02-03, 03:22 PM
EDIT: I just now realized that I posted this in the general 'Roleplaying' forum by mistake, when I meant to put it in the 3.5 forum. Do I have the option to move it?

Report your post (use the triangle with the ! in it) and ask the Mods to move it.

Demidos
2015-02-03, 03:25 PM
Gate (for firepower), Shapechange (For extraordinary abilities and protective forms), and Timestop (for BFC) are all pretty big, yes.

Gate tends to just be the most powerful option of the three.

endur
2015-02-03, 04:01 PM
Auxiliaries ...

Dragons and other flying monsters.

Treants (Ents vs. Orthanac), Giants (Stone, Storm, Frost, Fire, etc.), Titans, Minotaurs, Ogres, etc.

Centaur cavalry.

For swampy terrain, lizardmen and amphibians and Will'o'wisp.

For mountain terrain, dwarves and gnomes.

For really durable troops, take regenerating troops such as trolls and vampires (night-time only).

Obliterate the other side's high level casters first if you can. Although if you can see a way to rout the enemy army without engaging the casters, go for it. If the caster sees the army running away, he will probably run away too.

i.e. think Warhammer Fantasy.

For summons, why summon in an angel or a demon, when you can summon in an demonic legion or an angelic host.