Abjuration wizard +unlimited mage armour=unlimited arcaneward

[Phion]

I have been unable to find anyone who has made this connection so I thought I may as well post it, its possible there is a technicality somewhere that prevents this build but I have been unable to see why not.

sink 2 levels into warlock (build as if you are playing a wizard, tough first few level but worth it later) and at level 2 take armour of shadows (cast mage armour at will without expending a spell slot or components) and then from there play as a Abjuration wizard and have free recharges for your arcane ward, the condition to activate arcane ward recharge is to cast an abjuration spell of first level or higher and does not state it has to be from wizard spell list.

Also we know armour of shadows is a 1st level spell because Fiendish vigor states you may cast false life as a 1st level spell, the only reason it does not say its as a first level spell is because false life can be levelled higher than level 1 whereas other spells from invocations can not be leveled such as alterself,detect magic, speak with animals, levitate, silent image and speak with dead are not leveled spells to begin with so to state as a level 1 spell is redundant. Thus is can not be argued that at will makes such spells cantrips.

[Phion]

...........bump

[CrusaderJoe]

...........bump

Really you bumped because 20 minutes? I'm not even sure bumping is kosher on these forums.

There is a specific reason why this may not work OR give DMs a very good reason to say no. And it isn't just fiat either.

[Naanomi]

Works fine, well known trick, probably not worth the spell level delay. Remember that single class mages will be able to do the same thing at higher levels.

[Yagyujubei]

you havent found anyone who knows about this? this has been analyzed to death here and on the official forums lol. Dwarven abj. wizardlock in heavy armor is a thing, and I intend to play one at some point as well, but sadly havent had the chance.

[Dalebert]

Remember that single class mages will be able to do the same thing at higher levels.

I forgot about that. I was going to house-rule this away in my games but given this fact, I'm inclined to let it go.

Yeah, it absolutely seems to work per RAW. Just a matter of whether your DM allows it.

[Foodle]

Alternatively you can just go 100% wizard and use the Alarm spell cast as a ritual. Takes longer, but you can cast it as you walk, recharging your shield and leaving little anti-getting-snuck-up-on-from-behind trips wires all over the place. Probably not very effective at higher levels, but at level 2 it's totally viable.

[Eslin]

If you're going into warlock to make this work, remember to use a high level spell slot to cast Armour of Agathys on yourself if you're getting targeted - the ward will absorb the damage before the temporary HP does, so you can have enemies taking 30 damage every time they hit you for a lot longer.

[WickerNipple]

A known but good trick. You just have to decide if it's actually worth it to take those levels. You're practically invulnerable anyway with Alarm anyway.

[Phion]

Ah okay, sorry guys I couldn't find a forum anywhere talking about it. Also I personally have found it to be worth it since its a lot quicker than casting alarm as a ritual also well as other features from the warlock such as dark vision 120 feet and using the pact magic to use shield/magic missile and being able to regain more spells during a short rest.

[SharkForce]

*shrug* generally speaking, you're giving up access to higher level spells/class abilities and the ability to cast more of your lower level spells; the former is more or less the whole point in being a wizard in the first place, the latter is what lets you save those high level abilities for when you really need them.

it works. it is definitely not a free lunch. I'd rather have the wizard levels, generally speaking.

[Vogonjeltz]

What not just use Mage armor? I mean multiclassing seems a pointless exercise.

[Theodoxus]

What not just use Mage armor? I mean multiclassing seems a pointless exercise.

Because that uses a spell slot that you then can't cast another spell with... and once the abjuration wards hp's fail, you're no better off... that's the point of the unlimited casting from Armor of Shadows... Pop AoS, get your ward up, go fight, get hit, ablative shield falls, pop AoS again, rinse repeat.

Using Mage Armor as a single classed Wizard will quickly run out of slots.

I mean, it's viable - no one is saying an abjurer isn't good - just, the two level warlock dip turns a decent ability into near cheese.

I can imagine a number of my players opting into Dual Classing Warlock 2 (or 3) -> Abjurer, just so they don't lose the spell levels.

[Dalebert]

After playing in several games, it seems like the hang-back-and-blast types don't get hurt all that much anyway. If they were getting into melee, it seems like it might be a bigger deal. I really thought it was so cheesy as to house-rule it away, but I've since changed my mind. It's nice, for sure, but if someone's willing to dip 2 levels, a steep price that I'm realizing with my own characters who have only dipped one level, then I'll let them enjoy it. I suppose people could adjust their play-style as to make it come into play more often. I guess that's okay too.

[Vogonjeltz]

Because that uses a spell slot that you then can't cast another spell with... and once the abjuration wards hp's fail, you're no better off... that's the point of the unlimited casting from Armor of Shadows... Pop AoS, get your ward up, go fight, get hit, ablative shield falls, pop AoS again, rinse repeat.

Using Mage Armor as a single classed Wizard will quickly run out of slots.

I mean, it's viable - no one is saying an abjurer isn't good - just, the two level warlock dip turns a decent ability into near cheese.

I can imagine a number of my players opting into Dual Classing Warlock 2 (or 3) -> Abjurer, just so they don't lose the spell levels.

With spell mastery it doesn't cost a slot to cast, it just has to be prepared. Considering the Wizard can prepare one spell per wizard level, it basically is free.

Taking a level in Warlock would trade a 7th level slot for a 1st level pact magic slot. It would also reduce the efficacy of Arcane Ward which is based on Wizard level, and arcane recovery, and forgo Spell Mastery (!).

That's a huge loss.

[Eslin]

With spell mastery it doesn't cost a slot to cast, it just has to be prepared. Considering the Wizard can prepare one spell per wizard level, it basically is free.

Taking a level in Warlock would trade a 7th level slot for a 1st level pact magic slot. It would also reduce the efficacy of Arcane Ward which is based on Wizard level, and arcane recovery, and forgo Spell Mastery (!).

That's a huge loss.

Spell mastery's a level 18 ability. If you ever get that high none of this matters, just spend your time as an ancient dragon.

[Vogonjeltz]

Spell mastery's a level 18 ability. If you ever get that high none of this matters, just spend your time as an ancient dragon.

That doesn't have any bearing on Arcane Ward, the topic of this thread, it also costs a level 9 spell so it's once per day. My point was that, on the margins, giving up higher level spells and wizard abilities for free mage armor doesn't make much sense.

[Theodoxus]

That doesn't have any bearing on Arcane Ward

Neither does spell mastery. I guarantee you, 99.99999% of players can make use of a Warlock 2/Abjurer 1 build, with refreshing temp hit points on their Arcane Ward than will ever even be part of (much less actually play the wizard) a game at or above 18th level.

So lets keep this in the realm of things players have a chance in hell of participating in, rather than poopooing the concept because they'll screw over their capstone ability that they'll never actually get to use.

[Naanomi]

The argument is more 'at low levels giving up access to higher level spells isn't generally worth it; and at higher levels you can duplicate the trick without warlock levels'

[ugugu]

I'm late
here's what I'm seeing
both have 10 intelligence

2 levels warlock, 2 levels Abjurer wizard
you get, mage armor spam, Arcane ward 4 HP max + int
short rest spells, full simple weapon proficiencies (or martial if you are a hexblade)
negative: MADD (int, cha, con, dex to get average AC)

Vs

4 levels Abjurer
access to more spell slots and minimum of 14 learned spells, arcane ward 8 hp max + int
not MADD (Int, dex, con no biggy... dex is higher priority as ward will block, reducing con saves)


+2 levels

2 levels warlock, 4 levels abjurer
same as above except arcane ward 8 HP max + int

vs

6 level abjurer
even higher level spell slots (3rd level spell slots), arcane ward, 12 HP max + int, and the ability to use ward on allies (earlier level than the former) 18 known spells minimum

[Aett_Thorn]

Why would you necro something almost three years old?

[djreynolds]

Remember that casting mage armor through a spell or invocation is still an action, yeah this works, but if this is in combat... running away or killing may be actually a better choice

I played a mountain dwarf abjurer and arcane ward came in handy, it sure did.

You can 45hp just about at 20th level, but you are only fixing it by 2hp since mage armor is a 1st level spell

Waiting on your 10th & 14th level abilities by 2 levels may not be worth it when you can just use the alarm ritual. The alarm ritual is probably your best bet, as it is out of combat.

While everyone short rests, you could get 12hp back on your arcane ward

[Sigreid]

You can accomplish the same thing at level 4 with a deep gnome taking the racial magic feat without having to multi-class.

Where it really comes into its own IMO is level 6 (I think) where you can extend the ward around your party front liner to make his hp go farther.