D&D stats for Doomsday?

[Belial_the_Leveler]

I wonder, what would the stats for the monster that killed Superman look like in DnD terms if we use what he's done in comics/animation/games as a benchmark? Ideally, such stats would cover the following;


1) Can punch through bank vaults or modern tank armor in one blow.
I.e. punch through the equivalent of 5 feet of steel.

2) Move as fast as a speeding bullet and jump high enough to attack airborne targets.
I.e. a move speed of around 2 miles/round or so in game terms.

3) Enough toughness to survive a 5-minute-long fight against an opponent with comparable hitting power - i.e. being hit dozens if not hundreds of times before going down.

4) Invulnerable to man-portable modern weaponry, only slightly inconvenienced by direct hits from a tank's cannon.

5) Agile/skilled enough to trade blows with Superman at superhuman speeds at rates of several blows/second.

6) Adaptation to whatever special attack/manauver is used to defeat it other than plain damage so it becomes immune to further uses.

7) Effectively immortal and eternally regenerating.

[Rubik]

The stuffy doll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?256950-3-5-The-Stuffy-Doll-Vs-the-Playground-%28V-1-V-28%29) after enough iterations?

Other than that, I dunno, but I fear that Kirby (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwzH7eSOwAc) could Kirb-stomp him...

[j_spencer93]

He also, way later, became something alot like a 3.5 Ankologian undead (not sure is spelled right)
I would advise using a base race (human or whatever) and make a unique creature, like the tarrasque as in there is only 1, and pretty much make all his physical stats 25-30. Give him basic feats to increase his defensive abilities and melee strikes, so he is only a melee powerful when he first appears but have him reappear every so often immune to how he was beat, +x amount of more HD.

[INoKnowNames]

Isn't there a disease that lets you get infinite strength or something? That's probably a decent start...

Ironically, the first thing I thought of was a Monk or something else with upgraded speed with that disease...


Other than that, I dunno, but I fear that Kirby (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwzH7eSOwAc) could Kirb-stomp him...

They way overpowered Kirby for the Death Battle. He's so durable, yet he can be physically beaten by Waddle-Dees, which are about as deadly as Goombas are. Not to mention his inhale is actually rather limited. Most Final Boss energy Projectiles (Hi Marx, Galacta Knight, and Zero) would entirely ignore Kirby's air, and most copy abilities would get knocked out of him by a few solid punches from Mario, let alone a Z-Warrior, let alone Majin Buu in any of his forms. Kirby's only chance of survival would come down to getting whatever the "Ultimate" Special of the day happens to be, and that still might not save him if Buu just blows up the planet they fight on (though Hypernova would be a good counter to that, but see below). Not to mention the "Kirby has infinity strength because of a random minigame or a joke gag used in the anime" thing.

Like, I'm not even being biased in this: when Superman vs Goku came out, even though the guys (again) used bad math in determining Goku's abilities, I held no issue with Superman being stronger than Goku. Superman doesn't demonstrate just how broken he is (or rather, how broken he's been written over continuities) because that's the point of his existence; holding back to help guide others, not releasing his full strength and instantly murdering everything that gets in his way. Goku was built from the other end; trying to rise to the occasion as best as he can, even when faced with unstoppable odds. He even has that as a racial ability. Superman is consistently so much stronger in basically every way, and Goku's not even the strongest person in DBZ to compare to him: a fight against Vegito (I'd suggest Gogeta as well, but 30-10 minute fusions means Superman could easily hold out against him until he defuses), Broly, or someone else would be closer.

But this? No contest. Kirby doesn't come close to the strength, speed, or durability to match Majin Buu. Kirby's inhale, again, is not an instant win (except when boosted by a Miracle Seed, which automatically activates and can't be stored, like with most recent Final Weapons or Super Abilities), with many attacks and every enemy that doesn't have a health bar ignoring it. It isn't at all stated that the explosion produced by the final boss of Triple Deluxe was a planet buster, rather than confirming the destcrution of all the tendrils wrapped around the planet that were part of the destroyed final boss; I'm not sure if they were purposefully misrepresenting that scene or just being ignorant, but that does not do jack to prove that Kirby has any sort of decent durability, which varies -HEAVILY- from medium to medium. And for that "Frying Pan Scene", even the assumption that the planet has to work on physics similar to Earths, or that Shiver Star itself is a post apocalyptic Earth, while sound logic, is entirely conjecture on their part; otherwise Kirby's main combat ability would be that he's the physically strongest thing alive, not that he's capable of copying things that are useful to defeat the enemy at hand. The Warp Star may be able to travel at the speed of light, but that doesn't mean Kirby himself has the reflexes, movement speed, or attack speed to match. About the only part of the write up that makes sense is that, should Kirby corner him with one of his uber weapons that -could kill him- (Star Rod, Hypernova, Ultra Sword, Love Love Stick, Galaxia Blade, Crystal Shard Gun, Star Charriot, and a few others I can't recall without cheating), Instant Transmission can't be used without a moment to think and focus, so Buu wouldn't be able to outrun his impending death.

That said, if Kirby -did- eat a piece of Buu and gain his power that way, then all bets are off. Cut up Fat Buu until he produces parts he could eat, and become Buu Kirby that way. Being capable of becoming stronger than Buu could count as a reason to give the match to Kirby... but then again, that also only applies to only Fatbuu, since the others all would have absorbed Kirby if he tried that, and could have even baited him into getting absorbed.

[Rubik]

They way overpowered Kirby for the Death Battle. He's so durable, yet he can be physically beaten by Waddle-Dees, which are about as deadly as Goombas are. Not to mention his inhale is actually rather limited. Most Final Boss energy Projectiles (Hi Marx, Galacta Knight, and Zero) would entirely ignore Kirby's air, and most copy abilities would get knocked out of him by a few solid punches from Mario, let alone a Z-Warrior, let alone Majin Buu in any of his forms. Kirby's only chance of survival would come down to getting whatever the "Ultimate" Special of the day happens to be, and that still might not save him if Buu just blows up the planet they fight on (though Hypernova would be a good counter to that, but see below). Not to mention the "Kirby has infinity strength because of a random minigame or a joke gag used in the anime" thing.

Like, I'm not even being biased in this: when Superman vs Goku came out, even though the guys (again) used bad math in determining Goku's abilities, I held no issue with Superman being stronger than Goku. Superman doesn't demonstrate just how broken he is (or rather, how broken he's been written over continuities) because that's the point of his existence; holding back to help guide others, not releasing his full strength and instantly murdering everything that gets in his way. Goku was built from the other end; trying to rise to the occasion as best as he can, even when faced with unstoppable odds. He even has that as a racial ability. Superman is consistently so much stronger in basically every way, and Goku's not even the strongest person in DBZ to compare to him: a fight against Vegito (I'd suggest Gogeta as well, but 30-10 minute fusions means Superman could easily hold out against him until he defuses), Broly, or someone else would be closer.

But this? No contest. Kirby doesn't come close to the strength, speed, or durability to match Majin Buu. Kirby's inhale, again, is not an instant win (except when boosted by a Miracle Seed, which automatically activates and can't be stored, like with most recent Final Weapons or Super Abilities), with many attacks and every enemy that doesn't have a health bar ignoring it. It isn't at all stated that the explosion produced by the final boss of Triple Deluxe was a planet buster, rather than confirming the destcrution of all the tendrils wrapped around the planet that were part of the destroyed final boss; I'm not sure if they were purposefully misrepresenting that scene or just being ignorant, but that does not do jack to prove that Kirby has any sort of decent durability, which varies -HEAVILY- from medium to medium. And for that "Frying Pan Scene", even the assumption that the planet has to work on physics similar to Earths, or that Shiver Star itself is a post apocalyptic Earth, while sound logic, is entirely conjecture on their part; otherwise Kirby's main combat ability would be that he's the physically strongest thing alive, not that he's capable of copying things that are useful to defeat the enemy at hand. The Warp Star may be able to travel at the speed of light, but that doesn't mean Kirby himself has the reflexes, movement speed, or attack speed to match. About the only part of the write up that makes sense is that, should Kirby corner him with one of his uber weapons that -could kill him- (Star Rod, Hypernova, Ultra Sword, Love Love Stick, Galaxia Blade, Crystal Shard Gun, Star Charriot, and a few others I can't recall without cheating), Instant Transmission can't be used without a moment to think and focus, so Buu wouldn't be able to outrun his impending death.

That said, if Kirby -did- eat a piece of Buu and gain his power that way, then all bets are off. Cut up Fat Buu until he produces parts he could eat, and become Buu Kirby that way. Being capable of becoming stronger than Buu could count as a reason to give the match to Kirby... but then again, that also only applies to only Fatbuu, since the others all would have absorbed Kirby if he tried that, and could have even baited him into getting absorbed.Considering that Kirby regularly obliterates reality-warping universe-busters (and their even more powerful undead incarnations), survives being blasted repeatedly with energy cannons from a futuristic warship, can destroy planet-sized god-tier beings without issue, can fight effectively while traveling at MFTL speeds (we're talking one solar system to the next in mere seconds), and can survive being sucked into literal black holes before pulling himself back out, I'm fairly sure Kirby is a LOT more powerful than he's given credit for.

Here's something to look over, if you want an idea of what he's done, canonically. (http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/24pvoh/respect_kirby)

[edit] Also, I think Buu-Kirby should be henceforth known as "Buuby."

[INoKnowNames]

Considering that Kirby regularly obliterates reality-warping universe-busters (and their even more powerful undead incarnations), survives being blasted repeatedly with energy cannons from a futuristic warship, can destroy planet-sized god-tier beings without issue, can fight effectively while traveling at MFTL speeds (we're talking one solar system to the next in mere seconds), and can survive being sucked into literal black holes before pulling himself back out, I'm fairly sure Kirby is a LOT more powerful than he's given credit for.

Here's something to look over, if you want an idea of what he's done, canonically. (http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/24pvoh/respect_kirby)

Don't you try to tell me what Kirby can do as if I don't know! I freaking know Kirby! I've been playing the Kirby games since the SNES. He may not be my dad, but he's practically my sweaty uncle at this point.

Name a single "reality-warping universe-buster" that Kirby's defeated without help. Let me narrow the list down a bit:

Nightm-oh wait. Star Rod. Dark Ma-oh wait. Rainbow Sword. Ze-oh wait. Love Love Stick. 02-oh wait. Crystal Shard Gun. Magal-oh wait. Ultra Sword. Hell, Magalor even provided those for him to use. Secti-oh wait. Hypernova. It's -REALLY- freaking easy to defeat being of Pure Evil when you're given the Crystal Rainbow Star Gun Sword Rod.

I will give him his points for squaring off against Marx, Galaxia Knight, Wham Bam Jewel, and Masked Dedede, though they aren't quite planet-sized-god-tier beings, and I wouldn't give any of them a dime for their chance against fighting Goku, let alone Buu, given that Metaknight could duel them, but could also be beaten by, say, Mario, and Mario's not touching DBZ Warrior strength without a Deus Ex Machina. Not to mention the Arena/True Arena are questionable in their status as canon.

You will need to refresh my memory on when Kirby's taken a direct hit from a futuristic warship. I only remember the force of the Halberd's Engine being used to knock him off, but I don't remember him actually hit by it so much as them using it to try to get him off of the ship. The only other times they attacked him were his 2 second attempts to board it, and having your ride shot down isn't the same as being blasted to death yourself.

You'll also need to remind me when he's fought at Faster than Light Speed (assuming the M means Much), beyond when he rides on a Warp Star or Landia or other similar ride, and I question any of them being FTL speed when used in combat.

I also don't remember him fighting any "planet-sized god-tier beings" beyond Sectionia actually, and she actually would have killed him without her minion switching sides and having Dedede help save Kirby, as well as give him the power to fight her.

Kirby has never been sucked into a "literal" black hole. Nor has he ever pulled himself out of one. He has had enemies warp him into environments in a way much like a Black Hole (Marx I think, if not then definitely his Soul Form, and Magalor/Magalor Soul) and damage him for a bit inside them before spitting him back out, but given that Kirby dies if he falls into a bottomless pit, I doubt he could survive an -actual- "nothing gets out of here" black hole, and that those attacks used aren't actual black holes, or they would have destroyed at the very least the stage the boss created them on, let alone everything else nearby. Unless I've missed something from a recent game in which some enemy used a black hole on him somehow.

More on the actual subject of the thread, didn't Doomsday just put Superman into a Coma anyway? Admittedly I'm mostly talking about that movie, but I thought Superman actually won that fight, then basically was thought dead for a month before his heart beat once, then another month and it happened again, so his robot was able to find him.

That's just a random bluhgrp on my part. Doomsday... basically infinite everything on the physical spectrum? Enough HD to make the Tarrasque blush, more dr than there are monsters in every book printed, infinite strength, half infinite dexterity, double infinite constitution, +10 movement speed per HD, and combat feats selected per hd?

Edit:


[edit] Also, I think Buu-Kirby should be henceforth known as "Buuby."

... you win this round.

[j_spencer93]

actually no it was a real death. even in the comics he was basically dead only the quick response of his AI saved him. authors brought him back because of massive fan demand

[Belial_the_Leveler]

OK, let's translate a minimum benchmark to DnD stats;


Strength:
At absolute minimum, more powerful than a locomotive. 10.000 horsepower is lifting 750 tons at 1 meter/second so let's call 1.5 million lbs his max normal load for the minimum-STR benchmark. Thus a score of STR 75 covers it.
If his max load covers stuff like large buildings or a battleship, which superman is capable of lifting in almost all mediums, it is increased by a factor of about 100x, thus his strength increases by 35 points in DnD terms, resulting in a score of STR 110.


Superstrength:
Most comicbook strongmen can do things that are impossible with strength alone. In addition, DnD gives objects unusually high HP amounts. Thus, if we want Doomsday (and by extension Superman) to function as they do in the comics, we have to give them a "superstrength" ability that allows them to lift and wield absurdly large things for their size and to damage really large stuff easily. Thus:
Power Lifting [Co]
Beings with superstrength can lift more than their size alone would indicate. At STR 50 or higher, they can lift and wield objects as if they were Gargantuan. This is improved to Colossal at STR 75 and Titanic at STR 100.
Power Blow [Co]
Beings with superstrength are more destructive than their strength alone would indicate. At STR 50 or higher, they get the benefits of Ultimate Power Attack and their unarmed attacks count as 2H weapons for PA purposes. At STR 75 they get the benefit of Annihilating Strike and deal half damage even against normally immune targets. At STR 100 each hit causes an Earthquake as per the spell, and their blows can destroy barriers and defenses as if per Divine Blast.


Superspeed:
Superman, and by extension Doomsday, is fast enough to catch or dodge bullets. This indicates a DEX 29 and a WIS 24, the requirement for Infinite Deflection and Exceptional Deflection epic feats (which they get with their normal feat slots). Doomsday and Superman are also capable of several actions/second thanks to their mid-level Superspeed. Thus these abilities:
Superspeed [Co]
Beings with Superspeed have Supreme Initiative; use their base DEX modifier in place of DvR for it. In addition, they get a number of extra actions per round equal to their base DEX modifier; those actions can be readied or delayed separately.
Dash [Co]
Doomsday can run or leap 1000 feet in a single action. For every additional action spent when beginning the run or leap double the range, to a maximum of 106 miles for a total of 10 actions. (Superman would have the same ability, except with "fly" instead of "leap")


Toughness:
Supes/Doomsday should have a constitution score equal to their strength score, so CON 110. In addition, they're invulnerable to anything short of modern artillery. If we take modern artillery to start at 20d6 and go higher, an effective Hardness 100 should be enough. I chose hardness over DR as they can both survive unharmed when submerged in lava and they also resist futuristic beam weapons and superpowers.
I have no idea how many HD either of them should have but both of them have survived direct hits from thermonuclear weapons. Given that large nukes can go through 500 feet of stone at point-blank hits, they either have upwards of 30.000 HP (and thus 500+ HD) or they have something like this ability;
Invulnerability [Co]
Beings with this ability are nigh-invulnerable. They only take 10% of any harm (rounded up) after other defenses are accounted for. Typically, one of the five major attack categories (physical, energy, psionic, divine, arcane, cosmic) still has a normal effect on them, but some rare individuals lack such a weakness. (Supes' weakness is "arcane". Doomsday either doesn't have one or it is one he's not been exposed to in the comics - maybe "divine"?)
Last but not least, both Supes and Doomsday would have major amounts of regeneration/fast healing.

[Rubik]

Don't you try to tell me what Kirby can do as if I don't know! I freaking know Kirby! I've been playing the Kirby games since the SNES. He may not be my dad, but he's practically my sweaty uncle at this point.

Name a single "reality-warping universe-buster" that Kirby's defeated without help. Let me narrow the list down a bit:

Nightm-oh wait. Star Rod. Dark Ma-oh wait. Rainbow Sword. Ze-oh wait. Love Love Stick. 02-oh wait. Crystal Shard Gun. Magal-oh wait. Ultra Sword. Hell, Magalor even provided those for him to use. Secti-oh wait. Hypernova. It's -REALLY- freaking easy to defeat being of Pure Evil when you're given the Crystal Rainbow Star Gun Sword Rod.The star rod, if nothing else, is basically at-will for Kirby. He can create a warp star whenever he wants, and so long as he inhales it, he's got it. He still retains most of his other weapons, such as the triple star, master sword, and the crystal shard, as far as I can tell. Just because he doesn't normally use them doesn't mean he lost them.

When one of your (many, many, many) ultimate weapons can be used whenever you want (because you can basically create it yourself), it's pretty much a given that you can use it. And having so many ultimate weapons in what amounts to a pocket dimension in your own body means pulling them out for later use becomes trivial.


I will give him his points for squaring off against Marx, Galaxia Knight, Wham Bam Jewel, and Masked Dedede, though they aren't quite planet-sized-god-tier beings, and I wouldn't give any of them a dime for their chance against fighting Goku, let alone Buu, given that Metaknight could duel them, but could also be beaten by, say, Mario, and Mario's not touching DBZ Warrior strength without a Deus Ex Machina. Not to mention the Arena/True Arena are questionable in their status as canon.Mario just isn't in Kirby's league. He's taken down some bruisers, sure, but even with powerups, Kirby leaves him in the dust. Compare the challenges they've faced, if need be.


You will need to refresh my memory on when Kirby's taken a direct hit from a futuristic warship. I only remember the force of the Halberd's Engine being used to knock him off, but I don't remember him actually hit by it so much as them using it to try to get him off of the ship. The only other times they attacked him were his 2 second attempts to board it, and having your ride shot down isn't the same as being blasted to death yourself.Kirby took at least two direct hits in Revenge of Meta Knight by the Halberd's laser cannons. The warp star was destroyed, but Kirby just kept going at it, entirely unphased. Kirby was also hit by the white-hot plasma exhaust from the engines and shrugged it off like it's nothing.


You'll also need to remind me when he's fought at Faster than Light Speed (assuming the M means Much), beyond when he rides on a Warp Star or Landia or other similar ride, and I question any of them being FTL speed when used in combat.His warp star can cross between solar systems and even galaxies in no time flat, and he's fought several boss battles while chasing them through interstellar space


I also don't remember him fighting any "planet-sized god-tier beings" beyond Sectionia actually, and she actually would have killed him without her minion switching sides and having Dedede help save Kirby, as well as give him the power to fight her.Nova, IIRC, a planet-sized clockwork being with deity-level powers, was smashed to bits when Kirby hurled Marx into it.


Kirby has never been sucked into a "literal" black hole. Nor has he ever pulled himself out of one. He has had enemies warp him into environments in a way much like a Black Hole (Marx I think, if not then definitely his Soul Form, and Magalor/Magalor Soul) and damage him for a bit inside them before spitting him back out, but given that Kirby dies if he falls into a bottomless pit, I doubt he could survive an -actual- "nothing gets out of here" black hole, and that those attacks used aren't actual black holes, or they would have destroyed at the very least the stage the boss created them on, let alone everything else nearby. Unless I've missed something from a recent game in which some enemy used a black hole on him somehow.As you said, several bosses use black holes as attacks. They're actually called "black hole" in the bosses' movesets, and they act accordingly.

[INoKnowNames]

Belial, just curious: did you want to stat him out of any specific need, or just for the sake of doing so? I'd be more inclined to try to look up stuff and be useful if this was actually for something, though your write up is probably way better than anything I could do if not. Though, I question Doomsday having such high Wisdom. Maybe he could just get those feats as bonus feats?


The star rod, if nothing else, is basically at-will for Kirby. He can create a warp star whenever he wants, and so long as he inhales it, he's got it.
That depends on the canon of Kirby that you use. Going by the canon of the show means he can summon the singular Warp Star potentially, but if it gets destroyed, so does his Star Rod. Not to mention that canon is too incoherent about Kirby's abilities to be of us at all, given that he can go from being crushable without any harm to nearly beaten to death by a martial artist.

In the rest of the games and most other supplimentary material, Warp Stars are objects he finds, and the Star Rod is a relic from the Fountain of Dreams with power over Dreams, which is specifically why it's Nightmare's Weakness. Given the games are significantly less inconsistent about his powers, not to mention the source of most of the hype surrounding him, this is the canon I work with for my viewpoint.

This means 2 things. First, no, the Star Rod is not at will. He'd need to have gone to the Fountain of Dreams with the explicit purpose of using it's power.

And second, this means the Star Rod may potentially be only Nightmare's weakness, and thus while a useful weapon, not particularly powerful against other enemies, let alone enemies from different universes, which was what I was trying to focus on.


He still retains most of his other weapons, such as the triple star, master sword, and the crystal shard, as far as I can tell. Just because he doesn't normally use them doesn't mean he lost them.
The Triple Star is Daroach's weapon.

The Master Sword is Galaxia, Metaknight's weapon.

And the Crystal Shard Gun he couldn't use without Ribbon helping him, since it's her people's Crystal Shard.

So he explicitly can't use those weapons at will, actually. Similar could be claimed of the Hypernova (which is unstorable and found only on specific plants), the Ultra Sword (requires a certain enemy to be absorbed and also can't be stored), the Love-Love Stick (counts as outside help, given that he had to recieve the 30 Heart Stars needed to combine and form it), and the Rainbow Sword (likewise limited by the Rainbow Drops requirng his friends help to get).


Mario just isn't in Kirby's league. He's taken down some bruisers, sure, but even with powerups, Kirby leaves him in the dust. Compare the challenges they've faced, if need be.
The point to be made was that Kirby's most dangerous enemies have either been A) Someone who a decently powerful hero could beat, or B) An Eldritch Horror that Kirby uses a special weapon to destroy, accessing a weakness they have to it. I think the only acception to Rule B was Dark Nebula, but he fits into Rule A because of it.

That said, I mentioned Mario just because of Smash Bros. There are a few characters in that series that could genuinely crush Kirby, actually. Mario was just the first iconic name that came to mind.


Kirby took at least two direct hits in Revenge of Meta Knight by the Halberd's laser cannons. The warp star was destroyed, but Kirby just kept going at it, entirely unphased.
I referenced that. And the idea that a fighter pilot automatically dies just because the ship they're on gets destroyed is a leap of faith in logic. If they fall out and live, they aren't invincible to whatever destroyed what they were riding on; they just didn't get hit. Just because he got shot out of the sky doesn't mean he got shot.


Kirby was also hit by the white-hot plasma exhaust from the engines and shrugged it off like it's nothing.
I referenced that, too: how they used the exhaust to knock him off, not as an offensive tactic, and how it didn't actually hit him. It's easy for someone who can float to shrug off falls.


His warp star can cross between solar systems and even galaxies in no time flat
Whether or not that's true, and even that I'd like to ask you to cite a source, that doesn't mean Kirby himself can move or fight at faster than light speed, or that he possesses similar reflexes which would be needed to fight at such speeds. And from what I know of the Warp Star, at it's best and in non-combat, it's capable of making easy interplanetary flight, but I've never seen it go from one galaxy to the next.


and he's fought several boss battles while chasing them through interstellar space
Name one. The only one I know off of the top of my head is chasing Dark Mind, and he chased him through the sky, not from one galaxy to the next.


Nova, IIRC, a planet-sized clockwork being with deity-level powers, was smashed to bits when Kirby hurled Marx into it.
The Comet Nova (not a deity) has the ability to grant wishes only when called by the power of 7 Fountain of Dreams, and it required the Sun and Moon attacking it for Kirby to have the chance to use that same massive power to summon the Star Charriot, before going inside Nova and destroying it from the inside by shooting all of it's power. Marx flew into an already defeated Nova after being beaten by Kirby. Hell, the explosion could have come from Marx for all we actually know.


As you said, several bosses use black holes as attacks. They're actually called "black hole" in the bosses' movesets, and they act accordingly.
The bosses don't have movesets listed by any actual in game source; those attacks can be caled "Dimensional Rift" "Spacial Rend", "Matter Tear" or whatever other name you'd like for them, and it wouldn't change the fact that they don't act like Black Holes (being unable to be escaped from, or even able to escape their pull once you've gotten too close). I will give you that they are -like- Black Holes, but something that is close is not something that is the same.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

I've been considering running a superhero campaign with DnD mechanics rather than M&M mechanics for some time and I need to have the big Heroes/Villains statted for it to work. Specifically, I wanted to do a "DC superheroes lost in a DnD world" campaign.


As for Doomsday's wisdom score, he might not be very intelligent but he is very perceptive and good at tactics - not to mention he's never been mind-controlled. Ditto for Superman, his level of senses and awareness is super-high, and he is one of the most strong-willed and determined heroes too. Darkseid might have controlled him - but then Darkseid is a deity-level enemy.

[INoKnowNames]

I've been considering running a superhero campaign with DnD mechanics rather than M&M mechanics for some time and I need to have the big Heroes/Villains statted for it to work. Specifically, I wanted to do a "DC superheroes lost in a DnD world" campaign.

I see. So this actually is important, rather than just a theoretical exercise.

On a random note: holy crap I thought anime was bad about the "next villain is just an even stronger version of a previous hero or bad guy" thing. Superman's arch enemies mostly suck. No wonder everyone likes Batman; he doesn't fight enemies DBZ style, and thus the stakes don't have to be upped by making the next guy in line able to fart big bangs and shoot death. Comic book writers are pretty freaking bad...


As for Doomsday's wisdom score, he might not be very intelligent but he is very perceptive and good at tactics - not to mention he's never been mind-controlled. Ditto for Superman, his level of senses and awareness is super-high, and he is one of the most strong-willed and determined heroes too. Darkseid might have controlled him - but then Darkseid is a deity-level enemy.

I thought he'd been possessed by Braniac for a time, until Superman used Psionic Powers to force him out. I thought he'd also been Mind Controlled by Doctor Psycho.

I don't know anything beyond what I can wiki and what I can google (alongside that one animated special), but high Wisdom doesn't seem like something he had until he gained sentience, which actually weakened him in the end of that time line.

Superman I'll give you having massive Wisdom, but Doomsday just seems like he's Big, Strong, and has the reflexes to match, not particually intuitive in any sense of the phrase.

You may want to remember to give him immunity to at least Ability Damage and Drain; the classic "Heh. Your epic boss monster just got 1-shot by a low level spell" defenses, at least if you want to make them survive in D&D.

If you'd like me to not be speaking out of my butt and be able to add helpful advice, which version of him are you trying to create?

Quite frankly, a flat out "Forced Evolution" ability that allows him to come back after every death seems appropriate, given that seems to be what he does. May as well let him level up every time he dies, too.

Though, I can't see this creature being appropriate for anything but an Epic Game, and by the time Epic comes in, Epic Magic comes in, too.

Also, I can't say I agree with the other user who said that Superman died. As far as everyone knows, he was believed dead, but if he's capable of being healed from that state, than either he couldn't have been that dead, or why doesn't everyone use revive machines?

[DStenz89]

Just saw this thread after doing a google search. I like the stats that were given to Doomsday. How would you tweak him based on Batman v Superman?