New player (First time) Looking to play as a ranged support

[Kurondo]

the DM does force the exp nerfing when you don't pick a favoured class, anyways, all and any help appreciated, I was thinking of being something in the neutral range and someone who can be a good support, there are four other players, I will just list their classes.

-Cleric/Warlock
-Barbarian/Psionic warrior (Or something like that.)
-Knight
-Druid.

Thank you all in advance for your help.

[Kurondo]

Just to clarify, we're using all the books basically, also when I said neutral range I meant alignment .

[PaucaTerrorem]

Ranger/Scout. Pick up Swift Hunter. Choose something that ignores crits as your favored enemy.

[Twurps]

Ranger/Scout. Pick up Swift Hunter. Choose something that ignores crits as your favored enemy.

Pretty much that.
To elaborate: Archery in d&d has some issues keeping up in the 'damage dealing' department. Scout(Complete Adventurer) gives you additional 'skirmish' damage that scales as you level up to help alleviate that. Swift hunter (Complete scoundrel) lets you stack your ranger level with scout level for a number of benefits including skirmish and favored enemy progression. The usual break off points are scout3 or 4 (depending on if you want/need the bonus feat at scout 4.)

Alternatively: Be a Cleric, take Zen Archery (Complete Warrior) so you can dump dex, and use spells that boost your archery. I've never played one myself, so I'll leave it to others to suggest good spells. This alternative is a little bit more complex (As in my opinion anything with a large selection of spells is). Pro: Cleric casting FTW. Con: fewer skill point, and you already have a Cleric in your party.

[Troacctid]

What level are you starting at? That will affect the options you have available.

[Seruvius]

As said by others, Ranger/Scout is a pretty good combo for basic archery. Magic is of course always a good way of doing stuff in 3.5, but buffer/controll spells are generally better than blaster (i.e. pure damage), though there are ways you can do both. Say going for a cleric ( full spellcaster) and taking the feat zen archery ( lets you use wisdom for to-hit rather than dex with ranged weapons).
Warlocks are another pretty good choice for ranged as their eldritch blast isa pretty nice way for damage and they can get either flight or spiderclimb realtively easily, so harder to catch, though a close combat version (bladelock) is better for pure damage.
Dragonfire adept with the feat entangling exhalation can be an interesting ranged character, dealing decent damage with the dragonbreath each turn or using entangling exhalation to slow enemies, giving great aoe control.

Heres a link to an archery handbook, talking about the ups and downs of Bow, crossbow and mounted archery and listing some of the best weapons/magic enhancments/feats etc. as a good place to start. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.00

[Xerlith]

If you want to be a ranged supporting character, try out a bard. Mixed with Warblade you have no problems being both the party face, the support guy and the damage source. Silverbrow Human (DM) Bard4/Warblade16 may be a good idea if you can spring it. To elaborate:

Silverbrow Human Bard4/Warblade16
FEATS:
1- Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
3- Rapid Shot, Song of the Heart
6- Dragonfire Inspiration
9- Song of the White Raven, Improved Initiative
12- Dragonfire Inspiration
13- Blind-Fight
15- Woodland Archer
17 - Great Fortitude
18- Extra Music

MANEUVERS:
1- Sudden Leap, Moment of Perfect Mind, Leading the Attack
2- Wall of Blades, Action Before Thought
3- White Raven Tactics, Iron Heart Surge
4- Covering Strike
5- Iron Heart Focus
6- Order Forged from Chaos
7- Iron Heart Endurance, Quicksilver Motion
8- Raging Mongoose, Diamond Defense
9- Time Stands Still
Maneuvers in italics are the swappable ones.

STANCES:
Blood in the Water, Hunter's Sense, Hearing the Air, Stance of Alacrity

Bard ACFs: Music of Creation (ECS) allows you to take SotH instead of Inspire Competence. At 1st level take Healing Hymn in place of Fascinate and Spellbreaker Song in place of Countersong.

Inspire Courage: Buy a Badge of Valor (MIC) and a Masterwork Horn (Song and Silence). Take Inspirational Boost as one of your spells. In combat start up the Inspirational Boost immediately before you start up your Inspire Courage via the Horn. In the following round start up the Badge of Valor (make the team chip in for it). At 3rd level IC+SotH+IB+horn = +4 damage/to hit. Becomes +5 with Badge of Valor.
Dragonfire Inspiration allows you to switch all these +1s into +1d6s of Fire Damage (So, a +4d6 Fire Damage/hit at 6th level)

As a bard4 you've got not many Bardic Music uses, so you need a trick. As soon as you can put Harmonizing on your weapon, as well as buy a Glove of the Master Strategist. When you use your Bardic Music, the weapon picks up your song to help you. When you stop, it sings for your Cha Mod rounds. So if you hide it into the Glove, it puts the weapon in a stasis - when you pull it out later, you can pick up the music and not waste a Bardic Music use.

Your weapon should be an Elvencraft Shortbow (RotW) with two Wand Chambers (DS). One of them should be a wand of Instant of Power (FoW), second one Swift Expeditional Retreat (most optimally). Instant of Power is a great spell - +4 to any of your allies rolls, as an immediate action.

Your tactical presence comes from White Raven Tactics granting your allies actions, along with other White Raven feats.

The 2nd level bard spells have many good ones to take, but your best bets are probably two of: Alter Self (there are too many good uses of it), Blur, Mirror Image, Cat's Grace.

In combat you basically drop Inspire Courage, scaling the bonus depending on how much of a challenge you're facing, then shoot at things, using your maneuvers to counter whatever is thrown at you. Later on you are able to grant your allies additional actions and get more attacks via the boosts.

[Kurondo]

If you want to be a ranged supporting character, try out a bard. Mixed with Warblade you have no problems being both the party face, the support guy and the damage source. Silverbrow Human (DM) Bard4/Warblade16 may be a good idea if you can spring it. To elaborate:

Silverbrow Human Bard4/Warblade16
FEATS:
1- Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
3- Rapid Shot, Song of the Heart
6- Dragonfire Inspiration
9- Song of the White Raven, Improved Initiative
12- Dragonfire Inspiration
13- Blind-Fight
15- Woodland Archer
17 - Great Fortitude
18- Extra Music

MANEUVERS:
1- Sudden Leap, Moment of Perfect Mind, Leading the Attack
2- Wall of Blades, Action Before Thought
3- White Raven Tactics, Iron Heart Surge
4- Covering Strike
5- Iron Heart Focus
6- Order Forged from Chaos
7- Iron Heart Endurance, Quicksilver Motion
8- Raging Mongoose, Diamond Defense
9- Time Stands Still
Maneuvers in italics are the swappable ones.

STANCES:
Blood in the Water, Hunter's Sense, Hearing the Air, Stance of Alacrity

Bard ACFs: Music of Creation (ECS) allows you to take SotH instead of Inspire Competence. At 1st level take Healing Hymn in place of Fascinate and Spellbreaker Song in place of Countersong.

Inspire Courage: Buy a Badge of Valor (MIC) and a Masterwork Horn (Song and Silence). Take Inspirational Boost as one of your spells. In combat start up the Inspirational Boost immediately before you start up your Inspire Courage via the Horn. In the following round start up the Badge of Valor (make the team chip in for it). At 3rd level IC+SotH+IB+horn = +4 damage/to hit. Becomes +5 with Badge of Valor.
Dragonfire Inspiration allows you to switch all these +1s into +1d6s of Fire Damage (So, a +4d6 Fire Damage/hit at 6th level)

As a bard4 you've got not many Bardic Music uses, so you need a trick. As soon as you can put Harmonizing on your weapon, as well as buy a Glove of the Master Strategist. When you use your Bardic Music, the weapon picks up your song to help you. When you stop, it sings for your Cha Mod rounds. So if you hide it into the Glove, it puts the weapon in a stasis - when you pull it out later, you can pick up the music and not waste a Bardic Music use.

Your weapon should be an Elvencraft Shortbow (RotW) with two Wand Chambers (DS). One of them should be a wand of Instant of Power (FoW), second one Swift Expeditional Retreat (most optimally). Instant of Power is a great spell - +4 to any of your allies rolls, as an immediate action.

Your tactical presence comes from White Raven Tactics granting your allies actions, along with other White Raven feats.

The 2nd level bard spells have many good ones to take, but your best bets are probably two of: Alter Self (there are too many good uses of it), Blur, Mirror Image, Cat's Grace.

In combat you basically drop Inspire Courage, scaling the bonus depending on how much of a challenge you're facing, then shoot at things, using your maneuvers to counter whatever is thrown at you. Later on you are able to grant your allies additional actions and get more attacks via the boosts.
Wow this is alot of help uhm. where should I put my stats? Also nice avatar.

[Xerlith]

Are you doing a point-buy? ROlling the stats? As a rule of thumb and by order of importance, Dex>Cha=Con>Int>Str>Wis.
Also, thanks - the avatar's adopted from Terry576, you'll find other ones in the Arts&Crafts subforums

[Kurondo]

Are you doing a point-buy? ROlling the stats? As a rule of thumb and by order of importance, Dex>Cha=Con>Int>Str>Wis.
Also, thanks - the avatar's adopted from Terry576, you'll find other ones in the Arts&Crafts subforums

All righty then, also we rolled and I got...16. 21. 13. 16. 12. 19

[Greenish]

All righty then, also we rolled and I got...16. 21. 13. 16. 12. 19Well, you shouldn't have troubles with that spread. Are you sure you rolled the right dice, though?

[Xerlith]

All righty then, also we rolled and I got...16. 21. 13. 16. 12. 19

So...
STR 13
DEX 21
CON 16
INT 19
WIS 12
CHA 16

You can attempt mild Diplomancy, meaning:
Max Diplomacy and put 5 ranks into:
Bluff;
Knowledge (nobility and Royalty);
Sense Motive.

They'll give you an additional +6 to your Diplomacy checks, meaning at 2nd level you'll sport a... 5 + 6 + 3 = 14.
Rest of your skillpoints should go into Balance (5 points), with Jump, Concentration and Diplomacy maxed.

Also: 21 and 19 on a roll? HOW

[Kurondo]

So...
STR 13
DEX 21
CON 16
INT 19
WIS 12
CHA 16

You can attempt mild Diplomancy, meaning:
Max Diplomacy and put 5 ranks into:
Bluff;
Knowledge (nobility and Royalty);
Sense Motive.

They'll give you an additional +6 to your Diplomacy checks, meaning at 2nd level you'll sport a... 5 + 6 + 3 = 14.
Rest of your skillpoints should go into Balance (5 points), with Jump, Concentration and Diplomacy maxed.

Also: 21 and 19 on a roll? HOW



shhh, anyways we rolled 4d6's or something, we have some bootleg homebrew rules or something, thanks again.

[HyperDunkBarkly]

If you want to be a ranged supporting character, try out a bard. Mixed with Warblade you have no problems being both the party face, the support guy and the damage source. Silverbrow Human (DM) Bard4/Warblade16 may be a good idea if you can spring it. To elaborate:

Silverbrow Human Bard4/Warblade16
FEATS:
1- Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
3- Rapid Shot, Song of the Heart
6- Dragonfire Inspiration
9- Song of the White Raven, Improved Initiative
12- Dragonfire Inspiration
13- Blind-Fight
15- Woodland Archer
17 - Great Fortitude
18- Extra Music

MANEUVERS:
1- Sudden Leap, Moment of Perfect Mind, Leading the Attack
2- Wall of Blades, Action Before Thought
3- White Raven Tactics, Iron Heart Surge
4- Covering Strike
5- Iron Heart Focus
6- Order Forged from Chaos
7- Iron Heart Endurance, Quicksilver Motion
8- Raging Mongoose, Diamond Defense
9- Time Stands Still
Maneuvers in italics are the swappable ones.

STANCES:
Blood in the Water, Hunter's Sense, Hearing the Air, Stance of Alacrity

Bard ACFs: Music of Creation (ECS) allows you to take SotH instead of Inspire Competence. At 1st level take Healing Hymn in place of Fascinate and Spellbreaker Song in place of Countersong.

Inspire Courage: Buy a Badge of Valor (MIC) and a Masterwork Horn (Song and Silence). Take Inspirational Boost as one of your spells. In combat start up the Inspirational Boost immediately before you start up your Inspire Courage via the Horn. In the following round start up the Badge of Valor (make the team chip in for it). At 3rd level IC+SotH+IB+horn = +4 damage/to hit. Becomes +5 with Badge of Valor.
Dragonfire Inspiration allows you to switch all these +1s into +1d6s of Fire Damage (So, a +4d6 Fire Damage/hit at 6th level)

As a bard4 you've got not many Bardic Music uses, so you need a trick. As soon as you can put Harmonizing on your weapon, as well as buy a Glove of the Master Strategist. When you use your Bardic Music, the weapon picks up your song to help you. When you stop, it sings for your Cha Mod rounds. So if you hide it into the Glove, it puts the weapon in a stasis - when you pull it out later, you can pick up the music and not waste a Bardic Music use.

Your weapon should be an Elvencraft Shortbow (RotW) with two Wand Chambers (DS). One of them should be a wand of Instant of Power (FoW), second one Swift Expeditional Retreat (most optimally). Instant of Power is a great spell - +4 to any of your allies rolls, as an immediate action.

Your tactical presence comes from White Raven Tactics granting your allies actions, along with other White Raven feats.

The 2nd level bard spells have many good ones to take, but your best bets are probably two of: Alter Self (there are too many good uses of it), Blur, Mirror Image, Cat's Grace.

In combat you basically drop Inspire Courage, scaling the bonus depending on how much of a challenge you're facing, then shoot at things, using your maneuvers to counter whatever is thrown at you. Later on you are able to grant your allies additional actions and get more attacks via the boosts.
are you seriously suggesting tome of battle to a first timer?

The bard part is a great idea, but really? the warblade features might overload him, the potential stigma from others at the table(plenty of people still won't even touch the book or allow it in), and he might not even have the book or access.

[Greenish]

are you seriously suggesting tome of battle to a first timer?Easier than picking up a caster.

[HyperDunkBarkly]

Easier than picking up a caster.
really? My head must be screwed on oddly.

[Xerlith]

are you seriously suggesting tome of battle to a first timer?

The bard part is a great idea, but really? the warblade features might overload him, the potential stigma from others at the table(plenty of people still won't even touch the book or allow it in), and he might not even have the book or access.

1. First 4 levels are Bard anyway and THAT's where most of his power comes from. Doesn't even need to multiclass to keep up till 20th.
2. When the new player has a solid grasp of basics (4 levels of playing a gish-lite character, some spellcasting on the side, some social skills, good combat potential), he gets a new subsystem to play with.
At 5th level, meaning he's about 5-6 sessions into the game at least. That's enough for a decently smart player to get used to basic mechanics.

So when he gets his first maneuvers, there are only what, three of them? And they're ONLY counters + a stance, which is a passive bonus. Not much of a burden, since - unlike a caster - he DOESN'T need to use his maneuvers to contribute.

And Warblade's class features apart from Initiating? They're just passive, numerical bonuses. If you think they're more than he can handle, then, well, you've got that screwed on wrongly part right. :smallannoyed:

[HyperDunkBarkly]

1. First 4 levels are Bard anyway and THAT's where most of his power comes from. Doesn't even need to multiclass to keep up till 20th.
2. When the new player has a solid grasp of basics (4 levels of playing a gish-lite character, some spellcasting on the side, some social skills, good combat potential), he gets a new subsystem to play with.
At 5th level, meaning he's about 5-6 sessions into the game at least. That's enough for a decently smart player to get used to basic mechanics.

So when he gets his first maneuvers, there are only what, three of them? And they're ONLY counters + a stance, which is a passive bonus. Not much of a burden, since - unlike a caster - he DOESN'T need to use his maneuvers to contribute.

And Warblade's class features apart from Initiating? They're just passive, numerical bonuses. If you think they're more than he can handle, then, well, you've got that screwed on wrongly part right. :smallannoyed:
yeah, I was overreacting. every time tome of battle gets brought up in groups I'm in it comes off as fairly complex. then again, the only player that does bothered running them is inconsistent about showing up and the old DM(who is is now falling on me to replace) had the book banned to the point that the other guy quit because of him(DM killed him in his sleep for rolling a warblade).

maybe it's just a lack of familiarity, or maybe it's because there's already a lot to digest in the game. hell if I know at this point.

[Xerlith]

Being a Martial Adept is easier than being a caster:
1. less resource management-heavy - your resources get renewed on a fairly consistent basis, without the need for 15-minute work day.
2. Not knowing how to use your resources doesn't leave you useless - Both Crusader and Warblade (and to a lesser extent Swordsage) allow the character to meaningfully contribute even when NOT using the maneuvers - ever tried not casting spells as a Wizard?

[HyperDunkBarkly]

Nah, I played beguiler instead. Spent most of my time as trap person and chucking grenade weapons.

[Frostthehero]

Ranged builds have been pretty well covered here, but I just have one suggestion. I think one of the best things a ranged support character can do is take the distracting attack class feature from the PHB2. It removes the ranger's animal companion, but when I played as a ranger, it offered little to no help anyway.

Distracting attack causes any enemy you hit with an attack to count as flanked until they are attacked by one of your allies, or until your next turn. Rouges can deal sneak attack damage off of this. Even if there is no Rogue in your party (which from what I saw, there isn't), this ability allows you to flank multiple enemies, and that +2 bonus on attack rolls for your allies never hurts.