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Belial_the_Leveler
2015-02-01, 01:18 PM
These are the finally recreated stats of the enemy I used in the challenge over a month ago. After my fried laptop, it took me far longer to rebuild it from memory to be accurate to every tactic I used there than rebuilding it from the ground-up could have been.

Comments welcome.




ROVAGUG
http://funyridom.freewebsite.biz/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/47709-contoh-menu-diet-1600-kalori.jpg

Multi-sized Far Outsider (extraplanar, chaos, evil, fire, earth)
Hit Dice: 98d10+4802 (5782 hp)
Initiative: +28 plus always first
Naturally Immune: aging, ability damage, ability drain, acid, bleed, disease, energy drain, fire, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, permanent wounds, petrification, poison, polymorph, suffocation, starvation, thirst, cold, electricity, sonic
Divinely Immune: antimagic, gating, turning/rebuking, imprisonment, banishment, death effects, form-altering attacks, stunning
Speed: 900 ft. (180 squares); climb 450 ft, fly 1800 ft
Armor Class: 178 (+28 Dex, +29 Wis +35 natural +12 insight +12 luck +20 cosmic +32 deflection)
Attack: +204 (+98 base +46 strength +25 luck +15 insight +20 cosmic), always 20 thus always succeeds
Damage: 33 tentactes at 2d6+99
(+46 strength, +20 insight, +13 perfection, +20 cosmic, annihilation DC 131, stun DC 131, rotting constriction)
Space/Reach: any, up to 1500 ft/1500 ft
Special Attacks: rush, spines, swallow whole, improved grab, rotting constriction, constant insight, see divine abilities below, +13 perfection bonus to all.
Special Qualities: DR 82/-, SR 490, Fast Healing 40, Tarrasque Carapace, Tarrasque Regeneration
Saves: Fort +118, Ref +109, Will +110 (always 20 thus always succeeds)
Abilities: Str 103, Dex 66, Con 84, Int 46, Wis 68, Cha 74
Skills: all maxed
Feats: Power Attack, Combat Experise, Combat Reflexes, Mobility, Spring Attack, Deflect Attows, Exceptional Deflection, Infinite Deflection, Roll With It 2x, Damage Reduction 26x
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: Yeah, right!
Alignment: Chaotic Evil

EMBODIMENT OF DIVINE DESTRUCTION
Rovagug has a DvR of 20 with all that entails. Numerical bonuses are included above. Its portofolio is Destruction, Disaster, War, Wrath. Its domains are Destruction, Earth, Fire, War, Fate, Envy. It senses all events related to that portofolio 20 tendays before they happen, no matter how insignificant the event, and can use divine senses to observe the event further. Separate from its divine senses, it can remember all portofolio-related events that ever happened as if by Divine Recall. All its senses extend 20 miles from its person plus 20 miles from any mention of its name or titles or locations and symbols of importance to it. It can choose to observe up to 20 distant locations at once, its senses again extending 20 miles, and block up to 2 locations from the sensesof deities of any rank - it will habitually block itself and its most powerful agent(s). It also has a Divine Realm in the far depths of the Abyss where the plane merges with the Far Realm, whithin which domain it effectively has control over reality (see divine domains). It can create all items, including artifacts.

ENGINE OF ARMAGEDDON
Rovagug has Divine Earth Mastery, Power of Nature and Divine Fire Mastery. (see SDAs) The earth shakes as if by an earthquake and is wracked as if by tornadoes for 20 miles radius in its wake. Mountains crumble, cities are buired, holes are ripped to the planet's crust and new volcanoes are raised at its whim. Unnatural features of any size can appear at any moment such as stone fists the size of mountains that grow out then smash down upon its enemies with tremendous force. Fiery apocalypse from the sky can strike anything within a radius of 400 miles from its position, gates are ripped into other planes and fiery horrors from dragons to demons and even worse things can manifest at a moment's notice. The source of such destruction is often hidden behind a whirlwind of sand and smoke that prevents observation.

REALITY SCREAMS
Rovagug can force its will upon the Cosmos through the Alter Reality ability. He uses this ability to warp the universe in its twisted image, creating things such as lasting gates between heaven and the Abyss, causing widespread destruction, moving creatures from any point in any plane into the same space as Spheres of Annihilation it has crafted, invoking Apocalypse from the Sky, making twisted mockeries of any mortal heroes brave enough to challenge it, and messing with the fabric of the Cosmos. Specifically on its person, it has made planar bubbles to carry the effects of its own divine domain (and the massive power boost they give it) wherever it goes, prevent mortals from using magic (especially temporal magic), replicate the effects of many known defensive spells on its person, and violate causality by traveling to whatever point in the timeline it desires when on a plane that has a timeline.

FORM OF TERROR
Rovagug's form is pure chaos. Through the use of Alter Size, Alter Form, Shift Form, Shapechange and True Shapechange abilities, it can take any nondeific form it desires, from a grain of sand to 1500 feet high in its greatest dimension. It can mimic any creature of any size and HD as long as it isn't divine and assume their special abilities and qualities while retaining its own. In addition, its form is not wholly within reality; it can use Divine Dodge to avoid any attack or effect with 70% chance of success and if destroyed it will simply Rejuvenate. Attacks made by Rovagug theaten obliteration as if by Annihilating Strike and Irresistible Blows save DC 131. Last but not least, its natural form is so hideously, unnaturally inimical to life that any mortal creature within 200 feet of it is automatically destroyed, similar to Divine Splendor. Even beyond that, Rovagug's divine aura of Insanity and Awe extends up to 20 miles, with a will save dc 111. Rovagug will often use its form offensively by reducing its size to a grain of sand to avoid detection, then simply moving near mortal creatures causing them to abruptly and apparently inexplicably be destroyed. Enemies attacking Rovagug are immediately cursed as if by Power of Luck and can be further ravaged via Divine Curse.
Rovagug's natural form is that of a 98-hd paragon pseudonatural tarrasque. Its abilities are included in the stats table above.

SPAWN OF DIVINE DESTRUCTION
Rovagug's power of chaos can spawn untold nightmares. It can make up to 20 lesser copies of itself via the Avatar ability - those usually assume various monstrous shapes that terrorize entire worlds. It can also spawn lesser terrors with Create Object, Create Greater Object, Create Creature, Craft Artifact and Divine Creation. One of the more amusing jokes it can play upon a world is to travel back in time, slay or corrupt all members of a budding mortal or monstrous race and replace them with its own creations that are seemingly identical but have hidden abilities and programming made by their master - then return to the "future" and see how history and causality have been messed up through its interference. Alternatively, it may replace an artifact of good with one of its own toys or even nonartifact items that mortal heroes will get to use in the future, guessing what to replace through portofolio sense or brief trips to the future.
Rovagug may also have any number of artifacts or epic magic items on itself at any one time. It is fond of crafting contingencies, enchanting its own natural armor with Great Reflection and similar properties, enchanting its own attacks with Vorpal, Ruin, Lifesteal and similar properties and enhancing its own stats. It is also fond of Spheres of Annihilation as destinations to send its enemies to via warping reality, or as weapons when it has taken steps to make itself invulnerable to them, and copies of the Annulus to easily destroy other greater powers and deities who happen to be psionic. Such are NOT included in the stats above - since it has infinite time, its own domain where it can control the flow of time, infinite resources and time travel, it can have at any moment any number of such bonuses and changing may be as simple as returning to its timeless domain as a standard action.


OTHER POWERS
Rovagug has Supreme Initiative, Divine Celerity, Instant Move and Breath of Life.

JustIgnoreMe
2015-02-01, 03:16 PM
Sweet! Thanks a lot for this, it's appreciated.

Belial_the_Leveler
2015-02-01, 03:48 PM
Now to see if with the stats out there someone could find a way to kill it.

AFAIK it is impossible to any character that isn't a deity of similar power but I could be wrong.

(Un)Inspired
2015-02-01, 03:53 PM
I've never been clear on how someone gets past a deity's portfolio sense.

What challenge did you use it for?

Squirrel_Dude
2015-02-01, 03:59 PM
It's alright boys, he can still be dazed!

Belial_the_Leveler
2015-02-01, 04:25 PM
Well, any plan to fight him (war), hurt him (destruction) or anything along those lines will either fall under his Portofolio Sense or his Divine Recall. You might be able to avoid the former if you get another cosmic-level power to hide you but not the latter.
Asmodeus got around that by specifically avoiding fighting or even hurting him. Instead, the plan was for Asmo's girlfriend Sarenrae to duel Rovagug while Asmo crafted an artifact that locked him up in the Abyss without either fighting or hurting him. As the greatest power of good in Golarion that specifically fought evil, Sarenrae was the only one capable of soloing the Rough Beast for any length of time, and as the greatest manipulator, deceiver and rules-lawyer in Golarion, Asmodeus was the only one who could successfuly avoid divine precognition like that and craft a major artifact in total secrecy.



As for dazing, depends on how you do it. You at best only get to try once before IT adapts to your plan so better make it count.

skypse
2015-02-01, 06:25 PM
Ummm.... Bluff him to eat himself to death?

JustIgnoreMe
2015-02-01, 06:39 PM
What challenge did you use it for?

It was this one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?382053-If-it-has-stats-%28Challenge-to-the-playground%29): by the end, none of us had even come close to finding out even the smallest bit of real information about it by RAW, although some people had lucked onto the fluff about Asmodeus (and fluff seems to be the only way to defeat it, especially as it can by RAW replace you and your entire species with exact duplicates loyal only to it, in the blink of an eye).

Belial_the_Leveler
2015-02-01, 07:45 PM
It does that by using Alter Reality to replicate teleport through time, then kills your speices in its infancy and replaces them with Divine Creation. Of course, that's the fault of the guy that started using teleport through time in the challenge - I had not intended Rovagug to use the more broken stuff until after the PCs did so. That's because the more broken stuff it can do, the less likely it is a PC could threaten it without being an equivalent deity.

As for the "fluff" thingy, Asmo legitimately crafted a major artifact (he has that SDA) and legitimately rules-lawyered his way around portofolio sense (he's the greatest lawyer in the cosmos after all). Sarenrae might have been unable to defeat Rovagug but, with some indirect help from other deities, she could delay him. Just because it is backstory fluff doesn't mean they wouldn't have the required stats for it.

(Un)Inspired
2015-02-01, 09:52 PM
Well, any plan to fight him (war), hurt him (destruction) or anything along those lines will either fall under his Portofolio Sense or his Divine Recall. You might be able to avoid the former if you get another cosmic-level power to hide you but not the latter.
Asmodeus got around that by specifically avoiding fighting or even hurting him. Instead, the plan was for Asmo's girlfriend Sarenrae to duel Rovagug while Asmo crafted an artifact that locked him up in the Abyss without either fighting or hurting him.

But his portfolio sense doesn't specify that he is aware of any attempt to fight him or hurt him. It specifies that he senses all events that relate to his portfolio 20 days before they happen.

He is also specifically called out as an embodiment of divine destruction.

Surely any plan to trap an embodiment of destructing relates to destruction and thus he would have been aware of it 20 days before Asmodeus concocted his plan.

Or am I missing something?

Coidzor
2015-02-02, 12:15 AM
Now to see if with the stats out there someone could find a way to kill it.

AFAIK it is impossible to any character that isn't a deity of similar power but I could be wrong.

So you're crowdsourcing GITP to make a completely unkillable entity to explain why it was sealed in a can in the first place?

Leave some room for Tharizdun, would ya? :smalltongue:


But his portfolio sense doesn't specify that he is aware of any attempt to fight him or hurt him. It specifies that he senses all events that relate to his portfolio 20 days before they happen.

He is also specifically called out as an embodiment of divine destruction.

Surely any plan to trap an embodiment of destructing relates to destruction and thus he would have been aware of it 20 days before Asmodeus concocted his plan.

Or am I missing something?

Asmodeus is allowed to cheat more than other deities can.


It does that by using Alter Reality to replicate teleport through time, then kills your speices in its infancy and replaces them with Divine Creation. Of course, that's the fault of the guy that started using teleport through time in the challenge - I had not intended Rovagug to use the more broken stuff until after the PCs did so. That's because the more broken stuff it can do, the less likely it is a PC could threaten it without being an equivalent deity.

It seems you're working at cross purposes with yourself if you're getting angry at people for bringing up all possible ways to deal with this because it means you're eliminating all possible ways of dealing with it when you're asking us for all possible ways to deal with it so that you can eliminate all possible ways of dealing with it. :smallconfused:

(Un)Inspired
2015-02-02, 03:25 PM
Asmodeus is allowed to cheat more than other deities can.


It seems Asmodeus' power as the ultimate rules lawyer stems from simply picking corrupt judges.

Coidzor
2015-02-02, 04:03 PM
It seems Asmodeus' power as the ultimate rules lawyer stems from simply picking corrupt judges.

Flanderization/memetic badassery would tend to suggest that if we tried to make it into a coherent narrative rather than metanarrative, yeah.

Edit: And then there's things like being able to come up with a brilliant plan, enact it, manipulate others into going along with it or reacting in just the right way you desired/accounted for, and succeed, all without ever actually consciously thinking about the plan or being aware of it. Thereby avoiding portfolio sense/divinations/etc.

JustIgnoreMe
2015-02-02, 05:06 PM
I don't understood why Rovagug didn't just travel back in time and replace Asmodeus with one of its own creations that was otherwise completely indistinguishable from the RAW Asmodeus.

"Aces hidden in the clock"-style time-war taken to its logical conclusion results in something very similar to Exalted Paranoia Combat, i.e. locking yourself in a vault forever and aiming your bow at the door, waiting for one of your enemies to come through the door.

Belial_the_Leveler
2015-02-02, 06:05 PM
Because Asmodeus is a Greater Power who, in his own domain, can set the Time trait to whatever he wants. Also, he has his own tricks - such as inventing whatever spells he wants without researching them then crafting them into artifacts. How do you think he made the Key of Imprisonment?



But most importantly, Teleport Through Time doesn't exist in the Pathfinder setting and neither do any of the other broken combos/loops of 3.5 edition. In Golarion, Rovagug is beatable by sufficiently powerful opposition and good tactics.

(Un)Inspired
2015-02-02, 06:14 PM
Because Asmodeus is a Greater Power who, in his own domain, can set the Time trait to whatever he wants. Also, he has his own tricks - such as inventing whatever spells he wants without researching them then crafting them into artifacts. How do you think he made the Key of Imprisonment?


How does that get around Rovagug's portfolio sense?

icefractal
2015-02-02, 06:50 PM
That thread was disappointing, TBH, because the premise was pretty exciting. A lot of the attempts seemed to boil down to "Use TO, the details are left as an exercise for the reader." And then you get into TO vs TO territory, which is not actually very interesting to read about, because it seems to come down to arguments about which absolute trumps which other absolute.

Like for example, the creature using TTT makes the challenge arguably unbeatable, and difficult to even judge. But once people start bringing in TTT against it, there's really no choice.

Now admittedly, "make a high-op but not NI character + strategy, up to 100th level and probably at least 30th" is a hell of a lot of work, more than I'd probably be willing to do either. Tossing out a couple 'absolute' tricks is a lot easier. But not, IMO, something that makes for an entertaining contest when everyone does it.


Edit: And as mentioned, this is why PF is a better environment for "no holds barred" optimization, because there are fewer/no things that make comparison impossible. 3E has a lot more fun stuff you can do, and I like it better as long as we're not actually trying to shatter it, but it gets all Calvinball at the really high end.

Lord of Shadows
2015-02-02, 06:58 PM
Where is Dire_Stirge?? We need another Madness, Tarrasque Killer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?365674-Madness-Tarrasquekiller-Slaying-the-Tarrasque-as-a-1st-level-commoner) !! :smallsmile:

Belial_the_Leveler
2015-02-02, 07:04 PM
1) Have your girlfriend delay the enemy in perpetual combat deep in a layer of the Abyss. This is the only part of the plan she's aware of.
2) Craft an artifact that cannot be used in battle, or affect one, nor can it cause or affect disasters.
3) Get to any entrances to said layer and seal them from the outside.
4) Your girlfriend and the enemy are still fighting - the sealing didn't interfere in their fight.
5) Plan to wait exactly 200 days and 1 minute before allowing your girlfriend to retreat through the seal but not the enemy.
6) One minute after you seal the gates and 200 days before your "plan" comes into effect, the enemy predicts the future actions and realizes he'll be imprisoned. He immediately tries to get out but -surprise!- you aren't going to imprison him; you already did that 1 minute ago. Your girlfriend realizes what you did too - and the retreat part of the plan happens ahead of schedule due to your enemy's actions.



This kind of anti-precognition action is called "sandtrap". You do something in such a way that it will affect your enemy after long enough time that by the time he predicts it, the effect will already be there. Kind of having a 2-minute precognitive drink spiked lemonade that will knock him out after 4 minutes. He'll see the knockout coming 2 minutes after he'd already drunk the lemonade.


The other kind of anti-precognition action is the "checkmate". Simply attack him in enough force, from enough directions, that every possible outcome is bad for him, no matter what he does. It doesn't matter if a precog villain knows Superman will punch him in the face if Superman punches too fast for him to dodge and too hard for him to roll with the blow.
Of course, playing the overwhelming force card on Rovagug is kinda hard.

Coidzor
2015-02-02, 07:11 PM
That thread was disappointing, TBH, because the premise was pretty exciting. A lot of the attempts seemed to boil down to "Use TO, the details are left as an exercise for the reader." And then you get into TO vs TO territory, which is not actually very interesting to read about, because it seems to come down to arguments about which absolute trumps which other absolute.

Yep. There's a reason that certain limits should be put on conversations and topics in order to better focus efforts and attentions on something actually interesting rather than just leading to making something that's TO in order to react to TO, confusing the point and what the desires of the person behind it actually are/were.


Now admittedly, "make a high-op but not NI character + strategy, up to 100th level and probably at least 30th" is a hell of a lot of work, more than I'd probably be willing to do either. Tossing out a couple 'absolute' tricks is a lot easier. But not, IMO, something that makes for an entertaining contest when everyone does it.

Quite.

(Un)Inspired
2015-02-02, 07:12 PM
1) Have your girlfriend delay the enemy in perpetual combat deep in a layer of the Abyss. This is the only part of the plan she's aware of.
2) Craft an artifact that cannot be used in battle, or affect one, nor can it cause or affect disasters.
3) Get to any entrances to said layer and seal them from the outside.
4) Your girlfriend and the enemy are still fighting - the sealing didn't interfere in their fight.
5) Plan to wait exactly 200 days and 1 minute before allowing your girlfriend to retreat through the seal but not the enemy.
6) One minute after you seal the gates and 200 days before your "plan" comes into effect, the enemy predicts the future actions and realizes he'll be imprisoned. He immediately tries to get out but -surprise!- you aren't going to imprison him; you already did that 1 minute ago. Your girlfriend realizes what you did too - and the retreat part of the plan happens ahead of schedule due to your enemy's actions.



This kind of anti-precognition action is called "sandtrap". You do something in such a way that it will affect your enemy after long enough time that by the time he predicts it, the effect will already be there. Kind of having a 2-minute precognitive drink spiked lemonade that will knock him out after 4 minutes. He'll see the knockout coming 2 minutes after he'd already drunk the lemonade.


The other kind of anti-precognition action is the "checkmate". Simply attack him in enough force, from enough directions, that every possible outcome is bad for him, no matter what he does. It doesn't matter if a precog villain knows Superman will punch him in the face if Superman punches too fast for him to dodge and too hard for him to roll with the blow.
Of course, playing the overwhelming force card on Rovagug is kinda hard.

But both of your ideas involve planning to do something to him. Said planning is an event he can sense before you even begin to plan.

Belial_the_Leveler
2015-02-02, 07:34 PM
Asmodeus specifically didn't do anything to Rovagug, only on Sarenrae and on terrain. Also, his original plan would not affect Rovagug even indirectly until after the precognition limit was crossed. And the final result wasn't predicted because it wasn't the future - it only became the future after Rovagug reacted to a prediction.

Besides, basic portofolio sense only reveals that an event happens and by whom - you need to use divine senses to get more info. "Asmodeus is planning against you" doesn't reveal anything new as Asmodeus is planning against everyone, all the time - and good luck getting more info if the planning is done under time stop or similar shenanigans.





BTW, I agree on the need for a specific optimization ceiling so such challenges are meaningful.

(Un)Inspired
2015-02-02, 07:42 PM
Asmodeus specifically didn't do anything to Rovagug, only on Sarenrae and on terrain. Also, his original plan would not affect Rovagug even indirectly until after the precognition limit was crossed. And the final result wasn't predicted because it wasn't the future - it only became the future after Rovagug reacted to a prediction.


It doesn't matter that Asmodeus didn't do anything to Rovagug. He ability specifically states "all events related to his portfolio"

Planning against him is specifically related to him and he fits within his own portfolio therefor he should sense the planning before it happens even if Asmodeus isn't physically acting. Purely mental events are still events.

Belial_the_Leveler
2015-02-03, 04:32 PM
It senses that the event happens. It still needs to use other senses to get details and divine senses don't include mind-reading. This is where Asmo's "always planning against everyone" comes into play; he is always planning something. Everybody knows that - not just deities with Portofolio Sense. But are you confident you can observe the Prince of Lies 24/7 and understand what you're seeing?

Xsatra
2015-02-03, 04:52 PM
"Bang! Bang! I shot you"!
"Nu-uh! I read your mind before you did it and dodged out of the way"!
"Well then I time travel to when you were born and shoot you"!
"No way! I'm invulnerable"!
etc

Did I get the gist of it? Except veiled in the rules of a game of pretend for grownups of course.

Karl Aegis
2015-02-03, 04:53 PM
So the plan was to imprison a thing inexplicably immune to imprisonment. Fantastic job, Asmodeus.

Minor Nitpick: You should have Dodge as a feat somewhere.

(Un)Inspired
2015-02-03, 05:10 PM
It senses that the event happens. It still needs to use other senses to get details and divine senses don't include mind-reading. This is where Asmo's "always planning against everyone" comes into play; he is always planning something. Everybody knows that - not just deities with Portofolio Sense. But are you confident you can observe the Prince of Lies 24/7 and understand what you're seeing?

Is portfolio sense defined anywhere? What sort of sensory data does one receive from it? I don't have the book that details it out in front of me.

Mr Adventurer
2015-02-04, 03:51 AM
It does that by using Alter Reality to replicate teleport through time, then kills your speices in its infancy and replaces them with Divine Creation. Of course, that's the fault of the guy that started using teleport through time in the challenge - I had not intended Rovagug to use the more broken stuff until after the PCs did so. That's because the more broken stuff it can do, the less likely it is a PC could threaten it without being an equivalent deity.

As for the "fluff" thingy, Asmo legitimately crafted a major artifact (he has that SDA) and legitimately rules-lawyered his way around portofolio sense (he's the greatest lawyer in the cosmos after all). Sarenrae might have been unable to defeat Rovagug but, with some indirect help from other deities, she could delay him. Just because it is backstory fluff doesn't mean they wouldn't have the required stats for it.

Aren't most races created by Greater Deities? Does Rovagug TTT/DC them as well?

Belial_the_Leveler
2015-02-04, 04:29 AM
@deity rules:
Freely available at www.d20srd.org . Portofolio sense, other senses, deific immunities, the divine abilities used to build Rovagug, divine realms and so on and so forth are all there.

@imprisonment:
Deities are immune to imprisonment but, as all divine immunities, it can be overcome if the effect originates by a source of equal or higher power.



BTW, I didn't actually write the backstory of the Rovagug vs Sarenrae/Asmodeus conflict (that was Paizo). I just gave them stats that reflected that backstory and I had to make the solution obscure enough and hard enough to justify why nobody short of a party of greater deities could pull it off.

ben-zayb
2015-02-07, 05:32 PM
What's Rovagug's motives again? I'm trying to figure out why it doesn't simply off any deity-level being that ever plans against him.

AuraTwilight
2015-02-07, 08:39 PM
Because not even Rovagug can successfully oppose literally every deity in the entire multiverse, without exception, working together.

Because that's exactly what he's trying to do and that's exactly who's opposing him for the continued existence of existence.

kardar233
2015-02-07, 11:34 PM
So the thread was about finding a way to deal with a creature who specifically cannot be defeated without equal or greater divine power.... without divine power.... in a system that has directly removed the ways to declare absolutes that can't be overridden by deific power.

I really don't see the point of doing this in Pathfinder. In 3.5 at least you can acquire absolute anonymity, make use of the things that can deny or work around deific power, but this just seems like a loophole whack-a-mole.

Coidzor
2015-02-08, 04:04 AM
What's Rovagug's motives again? I'm trying to figure out why it doesn't simply off any deity-level being that ever plans against him.

Destroy reality. I've yet to see anything that suggests he's anything other than a more bestial riff on Tharizdun.

I think the main difference between Rovagug and Groetus is that Groetus is comparatively patient and also that Groetus leaves some possibility for the multiverse to be reset or remade in a new configuration.

JustIgnoreMe
2015-02-08, 06:07 AM
Because not even Rovagug can successfully oppose literally every deity in the entire multiverse, without exception, working together.

Because that's exactly what he's trying to do and that's exactly who's opposing him for the continued existence of existence.

Yes he can, with these stats. And the unified alliance of every deity in the multiverse won't last. He just has to pick and choose his battles, going after one pantheon at a time (as he did in the Challenge thread).