Getting double nines with Fochlucan lyrist?

[Bad Wolf]

Or more specifically, sixes for bardic casting, nines for druidic casting.

Is there any way to do this?

Two sorta House rules:
1: DM allowed me to rake the Evasion feat in UA.
2: DM's open to the idea of me retraining some levels to get more lyrist levels.

Thanks in advance.

[dextercorvia]

Obligatory Handbook Link (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/965361)

[sideswipe]

a very easy way (there are much easier and more optimised im sure) is

bard 2/ druid 3/ Mystic theurge 5 / fochluchan lyrist 10

take versatile spellcaster at level 3 (you can spontaneously cast summon natures ally) and use heighten spell and sanctum spell (or similar) cheese to get a 2nd level bard spell. as soon as you qualify take fochluchan lyrist.

so feats are heighten spell, sanctum spell (earth spell blah blah), versatile spellcaster, evasion (UA) whatever you want.


i advise against this build though. you need cheese, and the sort of cheese that 80% of tables would tell you to leave if you attempted cheese too.

[Elric VIII]

If dragon magazine is available, Green Whisperer (Dragon 311) is a druid/bard theurge class that you can enter as bard 1/druid 4 without any feat prerequisites. It progresses both spellcasting levels and bardic music, but not animal companion or wildshape. It also lets you sing to plants. then you've got chaos music from Dragon 326 that is like practiced spellcaster for bardic music, although it requires you to be chaotic and gives you a chaotic aura like a cleric.

So bard 1/druid 4/ green whisperer 5/fochlucan lyrist 10 works to get you 6th level bard spells just at 20 (16/20 bard casting), with 19/20 druid casting and 20/20 bardic music, assuming you take chaos music.

[Bad Wolf]

If dragon magazine is available, Green Whisperer (Dragon 311) is a druid/bard theurge class that you can enter as bard 1/druid 4 without any feat prerequisites. It progresses both spellcasting levels and bardic music, but not animal companion or wildshape. It also lets you sing to plants. then you've got chaos music from Dragon 326 that is like practiced spellcaster for bardic music, although it requires you to be chaotic and gives you a chaotic aura like a cleric.

So bard 1/druid 4/ green whisperer 5/fochlucan lyrist 10 works to get you 6th level bard spells just at 20 (16/20 bard casting), with 19/20 druid casting and 20/20 bardic music, assuming you take chaos music.

Hmm...my math might be a little off, but I'd either have to have Perform as a druid skill or knowledge (nature) as a bard skill if I want to get into GW as soon as possible. Any easy way to get one of those?

[Troacctid]

Apprentice (Entertainer) gets you Perform. Knowledge Devotion gets you Knowledge (Nature).

[Bad Wolf]

Apprentice (Entertainer) gets you Perform. Knowledge Devotion gets you Knowledge (Nature).

Thank you.

[Elric VIII]

Hmm...my math might be a little off, but I'd either have to have Perform as a druid skill or knowledge (nature) as a bard skill if I want to get into GW as soon as possible. Any easy way to get one of those?

Well, first of all, bard does have knowledge (nature); you can take any knowledge skills as a bard. Additionally, having the skill as a class skill at one point makes the maximum ranks always HD+3 in subsequent levels, it just costs more to buy those ranks in a class that does not have them. So you start with bard 1 and put 4 ranks in knowledge (nature) and perform, then you spend 8 skill points over the next 4 druid levels to get cross-class ranks of perform.

Although what you probably mean is survival. I used the savage bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm) variant when I played this. It is a good thematic fit as well as a mechanical one.

Additionally, you could use greensinger initiate to add bluff, hide, and perform to your druid skill list. This feat also comes with some nice new spells like hold person/monster and etherealness.

[Rebel7284]

Or more specifically, sixes for bardic casting, nines for druidic casting.


Why not get nines for bard as well? Sublime Chord is a thing! A fun thing if you're playing at later levels!

Easiest way is either Green Whisperer or Bard 1/Druid 9 with Alternate Spell Source/Southern Magician.

Also check out the Able Learner feat as another way to save skill points.

[Bad Wolf]

Well, first of all, bard does have knowledge (nature); you can take any knowledge skills as a bard. Additionally, having the skill as a class skill at one point makes the maximum ranks always HD+3 in subsequent levels, it just costs more to buy those ranks in a class that does not have them. So you start with bard 1 and put 4 ranks in knowledge (nature) and perform, then you spend 8 skill points over the next 4 druid levels to get cross-class ranks of perform.

Although what you probably mean is survival. I used the savage bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm) variant when I played this. It is a good thematic fit as well as a mechanical one.

Additionally, you could use greensinger initiate to add bluff, hide, and perform to your druid skill list. This feat also comes with some nice new spells like hold person/monster and etherealness.

Thanks, must've been looking at the wrong variant class. Savage bard would probably be a bad choice, seeing as Decipher Script is a skill requirement for FL, and Savage trades it away.

Oh, and there's a ban on eberron stuff.

I don't suppose anyone know a good animal companion for a fourth level druid? Not going to be advanced, so...

[Rebel7284]

I don't suppose anyone know a good animal companion for a fourth level druid? Not going to be advanced, so...

Fleshraker is 4th I believe. Also, you may want to play deadly hunter druid.

Edit: also see my question right before your post

[Bad Wolf]

Why not get nines for bard as well? Sublime Chord is a thing! A fun thing if you're playing at later levels!

Easiest way is either Green Whisperer or Bard 1/Druid 9 with Alternate Spell Source/Southern Magician.

Also check out the Able Learner feat as another way to save skill points.

Eh, 16/20 is good enough for me, and I'd have to sacrifice druid casting to bump that up, so no thanks.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Illumian with improved krau sigil, bard 1/druid 2/mystic theurge 7/sublime chord 2/fochluchan lyrist 8 will get double nines at 20, just about. You lose 3 druid levels. Alternatively, you can get ur-priest, something like illumian paladin 2/barbarian 1/druid 1/bard 4/ur-priest 2/sublime chord 2/fochluchan lyrist 8. The paladin levels are to bump your fortitude save (ur-priest prerequisite, pick the paladin of slaughter variant to work with chaotic bards and evil ur-priests), and for having nice things that work with charisma. The level of barbarian is for pounce, you can change that as well. The total puts you at 3 + 15/4 + 2 + 8 = 16.75 bab (still 16 without fractional) and double ninths, but with low spells per day. Fochluchan Lyrist has full base attack, for some reason.

[Bad Wolf]

Illumian with improved krau sigil, bard 1/druid 2/mystic theurge 7/sublime chord 2/fochluchan lyrist 8 will get double nines at 20, just about. You lose 3 druid levels. Alternatively, you can get ur-priest, something like illumian paladin 2/barbarian 1/druid 1/bard 4/ur-priest 2/sublime chord 2/fochluchan lyrist 8. The paladin levels are to bump your fortitude save (ur-priest prerequisite, pick the paladin of slaughter variant to work with chaotic bards and evil ur-priests), and for having nice things that work with charisma. The level of barbarian is for pounce, you can change that as well. The total puts you at 3 + 15/4 + 2 + 8 = 16.75 bab (still 16 without fractional) and double ninths, but with low spells per day. Fochluchan Lyrist has full base attack, for some reason.

Annnd the high op-fu comes out. :P

Unfortunately I'm not an illumian, so I don't know how that first build will work out. As for the second one, I'm CN, so, sorry.

I think the reason FL has full BA is something about how Bards worked in first edition or something.

[Elric VIII]

Thanks, must've been looking at the wrong variant class. Savage bard would probably be a bad choice, seeing as Decipher Script is a skill requirement for FL, and Savage trades it away.

Oh, and there's a ban on eberron stuff.

I don't suppose anyone know a good animal companion for a fourth level druid? Not going to be advanced, so...

I'd recommend the urban companion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) option. It grants you a familiar that doesn't eat your exp when it dies. You'll have the ability to deliver touch spells, which is very useful.

Also, I recommend you look into the able learner feat if you are human. It lets you buy cc ranks at 1 point per rank, so it end up saving you 10+ skill points in a build that has a lot of cc requirements like this.

[sideswipe]

Annnd the high op-fu comes out. :P


hmmm, i think i can do one better.

venerable dragonwrought kobold paladin 1.

has all spells in the game and even divine ranks.

[Bad Wolf]

hmmm, i think i can do one better.

venerable dragonwrought kobold paladin 1.

has all spells in the game and even divine ranks.

DM: The gods see this happening sixteen weeks before and smite you.

[sideswipe]

DM: The gods see this happening sixteen weeks before and smite you.

i believe you are talking about boccob the uncaring. he doesn't care.

also future pun pun who knows about all spells 1 year in advance has already set up counters to boccob...... time for paradoxes to ensue :smallbiggrin: