Human to Demon Lord!

[Xar Zarath]

Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out some stuff. recently I want to take one of my characters and turn him into a demon lord. Of the Abyss!

He's a normal human wizard, plain build with no fancy prestige classes. Just plain old 17th level.

However I would like to know how you playgrounders would run this. What sort of obstacles would he encounter, what trials and tribulations would he have to go through?

Let's say he tried to take an empty layer (layer without demon lord) and how does it work both mechanically and story-wise? How would you all see it?

Any contributions would be appreciated and if anyone has similar threads on this, it is really appreciated!

[avr]

An 'empty' layer is that way for a reason, right? And not just because it's full of excrement or something, because at least one such has a demon lord.

Maybe the layer has a bunch of demons who can't stand to be ruled and who have successfully assassinated would-be demon lords before. Maybe it slowly chews away at the sanity of anyone claiming it. Maybe there are occasional devastaing events (e.g. the gravity reverses occasionally, sending everything loose to the cavernous ceiling) which make living there difficult. Maybe all of these and more.

On the more general subject I'd see it as more about building coalitions and alliances of demons (who make very poor subjects), resisting interference by other interested parties who don't want to see another demon lord (other demon lords, devils, even good guys) and paranoia than about just blowing the guts out of your enemies.

[Crake]

Hey guys, I have been trying to figure out some stuff. recently I want to take one of my characters and turn him into a demon lord. Of the Abyss!

He's a normal human wizard, plain build with no fancy prestige classes. Just plain old 17th level.

However I would like to know how you playgrounders would run this. What sort of obstacles would he encounter, what trials and tribulations would he have to go through?

Let's say he tried to take an empty layer (layer without demon lord) and how does it work both mechanically and story-wise? How would you all see it?

Any contributions would be appreciated and if anyone has similar threads on this, it is really appreciated!

Is this hypothetical? Or something you actually want to do in a currently running game? If it's the latter, then really the only way you can get this done is by talking it over with your DM and letting him know of your intentions, so he can plan something for you. Simply declaring "I do this this this and this" does not mean your DM will be on board with it. Your DM may have methods in mind as to how demon lords may be born or made. This is so far out of the realm of RAW, that it basically becomes freeform as to how it would go down.

[RoboEmperor]

The only way is
1. You're chaotic evil
2. You slaughter thousands of innocents
3. You turn yourself into a demon somehow and be able to respawn in the abyss if you die
4. You kill a demon lord by yourself, over and over again, until all the demons recognize you as the stronger, including the slain demon lord.

If none of these conditions are met the demons will try to kill you forever and none of them will follow you.

[Toilet Cobra]

Evil is a must, of course. Given that strange powers of all stripes rule in the abyss, it's up to the DM whether or not you have to be chaotic evil but I would say no. Of course, just being in the abyss for a millenia will do a number on your lawful beliefs.

If this was an npc I'd say the process would take thousands of years, but I'm gonna assume you want something fast enough to be played out in game, so as a DM here's what I'd say.

0. Choose a plane of the abyss, with or without a current ruler, that you want to make your own. I suggest layer 532 for its magic-enhancing properties.
1. You must consult with a power who understands the abyss intimately, preferably a creature who is extremely old. I suggest Dagon, a Qlippoth who predates demons themselves and has presumably observed them rise to power. Naturally, trying to bargain with such a fiend is hugely dangerous, even if you can actually get it to take you seriously.
2. Assuming you can force or persuade your mentor to somehow give you the ritual knowledge to change yourself into a demon, you're probably going to go on an artifact hunt. Let's say that you must retrieve a Talisman of Pure Good from a well-guarded shrine somewhere in Heaven, as well as capture a powerful lawful-good outsider while you're there. Take them both to the abyssal layer you want to have as your home base.
3. Sacrificing the outsider in a profane ritual that keeps you both in agony and involves the destruction of holy icons of all types, you use his/her death to attract the momentary attention of the quasi-sentient plane and focus the abyss' power in your location. In that moment, you raise the Talisman and use it to open a fissure beneath your own feet, causing you to hurtle down into the heart of the plane!
4. Should you prove both powerful and evil enough, you will mingle with the raw essence of the abyss and emerge as a mighty demon! If you fail, you are merely crushed beneath the foul earth, never to be seen again.

Now you're a demon, and pretty powerful in your own right. Slowly you will gain the loyalty of powerful demon lieutenants from your plane, and if you can keep that traitorous scum in line you can eventually recruit an army of demons.

[Alleran]

However I would like to know how you playgrounders would run this. What sort of obstacles would he encounter, what trials and tribulations would he have to go through?
Play through the last few adventures of the Savage Tide adventure path.

[Flickerdart]

Maybe it slowly chews away at the sanity of anyone claiming it.
That's pretty much true for the entire Abyss though. IIRC Fiendish Codex mentions something about would-be rulers of abyssal layers succumbing to more Chaotic and Evil behaviours until they become demons themselves.

It's not going to be too hard to force the existing denizens to obey you - demons, especially weak demons, are cowardly and craven, and making golems or whatever (or even binding higher-tier demons from other layers) to boss them around will work well. Other demon princes won't care if you set up shop on a good-for-nothing piece of land until you build something worthwhile and then they'll be lining up to steal it, destroy it, or both. Don't expect to make alliances - demons are untrustworthy even among their own kind.

[atemu1234]

In pathfinder there is a ritual to become a demon, and in Dragon Magazine there is a demon lord template. That's the best I got.

[Mando Knight]

The only way is
1. You're chaotic evil
2. You slaughter thousands of innocents
3. You turn yourself into a demon somehow and be able to respawn in the abyss if you die
4. You kill a demon lord by yourself, over and over again, until all the demons recognize you as the stronger, including the slain demon lord.

If none of these conditions are met the demons will try to kill you forever and none of them will follow you.

They're Chaotic Evil. Random, pointless attempts on your life are how they acknowledge that you might, in fact, be worthy of the title.

[AirApparent]

Step 1: Kill Orcus
Step 2: Become Orcus as the universe asserts the Law of Must-Always-Be-An-Orcus.

[afroakuma]

They're Chaotic Evil. Random, pointless attempts on your life are how they acknowledge that you might, in fact, be dinner.

I'm being helpful! :smallwink:

[Xar Zarath]

Is this hypothetical? Or something you actually want to do in a currently running game? If it's the latter, then really the only way you can get this done is by talking it over with your DM and letting him know of your intentions, so he can plan something for you. Simply declaring "I do this this this and this" does not mean your DM will be on board with it. Your DM may have methods in mind as to how demon lords may be born or made. This is so far out of the realm of RAW, that it basically becomes freeform as to how it would go down.

No, I actually want to try and see what happens, though it is mostly just RAW playthrough at the moment. There isn't much lore or game stuff out there to support a human ascending to demon lord status.

[Xar Zarath]

I'm being helpful! :smallwink:

If you have anything to add, oh all-knowing one, please do!:smallbiggrin:

[afroakuma]

There are no existing mechanics to do what you want. The closest would be the concluding adventure of Savage Tide, as mentioned above, which is just you ganking Demogorgon and taking his chair.

[icefractal]

Idea #1:
1) Make a deal with a powerful demon to be embodied as something better than a Dretch when you die.
2) Die.
3) Work your way up the abyssal ranks, becoming stronger until you can slay a demon lord and take over its domain.

Idea #2:
1) Defeat a demon lord and start living on his layer of the abyss.
2) Hope that the influence of the layer eventually turns you demonic. Maybe get some demon grafts to speed the process up.

Idea #3:
1) Subdue and capture a demon lord.
2) Figure out a way to use your soul as a 'virus' to corrupt the demon's essence into yourself.
3) You probably need a trusted minion to execute this, since you'll be dead during the process.

Idea #4:
1) Subdue and capture a demon lord.
2) True Mind Switch into it (get a psionic ally or research an arcane version)
3) Deny any claims that you aren't really a demon lord, just occupying the body of one.

Idea #5:
1) Use that ritual from Savage Species to become a Balor.
2) Go conquer a layer of the abyss.
3) Again, deny any claims that you aren't really a demon.

[Buufreak]

In pathfinder there is a ritual to become a demon, and in Dragon Magazine there is a demon lord template. That's the best I got.

Can you cite the exact magazine? This sounds abuse-able at my table. (In the good way!!!)

[A_S]

If you can get your hands on some way to become an Outsider (it's the capstone of various PrC's, for one thing), you can use the Ritual of Alignment and Ritual of Association from Savage Species p. 148 to pick up the [evil], [chaotic], and [tanar'ri] subtypes, which might strengthen your case for being a demon in the first place. Still a lot of work to be done to become a demon lord, of course.

[hamishspence]

Can you cite the exact magazine? This sounds abuse-able at my table. (In the good way!!!)

It was #359 - the last printed one.