On Shadow Evocation

[AlanBruce]

Greetings! Our party sorceress picked up Shadow Evocation and we'd like to all be on the same train of thoiught regarding how that spell works.

Particularly this part:

What happens when a creature succeeds its will save vs disbelief against shadow evocation effects that do not deal damage and either allow a save vs a debuff or simply create an effect? And how does the spell resistance allowed by shadow evocation interact with these effect-only spells?

E.g resilient sphere (when used to protect the caster), wind wall, defenestrating sphere, or wall of ice.

What about shadow walls of force?

I am aware True Seeing would reduce the damage of Shadow Evocations by 1/4, I believe (IE: Shadow Vortex of Teeth). What about Blindsight or Blindsense? Would they also act as Truee Seeing and apply the same deterrents to such a spell?

Thank you very much in advance.

[Flickerdart]

A creature that succeeds the save against a Shadow Evocation Globe of Invulnerability or similar nondamaging spell ignores it (see the second last line of the spell). Shadow Evocation is SR: Yes so creatures with SR that is not overcome also ignore it.

Blindsense and Blindsight do not help - the Shadow Evocation isn't a visual-only illusion, but an actual physical construct composed of shadowy matter/energy.

[Qwertystop]

Excellent question. Up there with Invisible Spell for "the authors don't seem to have realized that there's magic that doesn't blue things up".

[Flickerdart]

Excellent question. Up there with Invisible Spell for "the authors don't seem to have realized that there's magic that doesn't blue things up".
Uhh...No, the spell covers it.



Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

[SciChronic]

You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower. (For a spell with more than one level, use the best one applicable to you.)

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless an affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) damage. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow evocation’s level (5th) rather than the spell’s normal level.

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

Also, we have the Q&A thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?389369-Simple-RAW-Thread-for-3-5-Score-and-Nine) for the next times you have a rules question.

[Deophaun]

Blindsense and Blindsight do not help - the Shadow Evocation isn't a visual-only illusion, but an actual physical construct composed of shadowy matter/energy.
Just an odd quirk of RAW: The Grell's Sightless special quality actually does make it immune to shadow evocation.

[AlanBruce]

Also, we have the Q&A thread for the next times you have a rules question.

Thank you. I am aware of Q&A and nabbed the question from there, since I wasn't getting any responses.


Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

This is what we wanted to see, thank you.


Blindsense and Blindsight do not help - the Shadow Evocation isn't a visual-only illusion, but an actual physical construct composed of shadowy matter/energy.

And here I thought Blindsight specifically was the bane of illusions. I suppose it would be, were the illusion not quasi-real.

[Qwertystop]

Uhh...No, the spell covers it.

Oh. Huh... never noticed that bit, somehow.

[Flickerdart]

And here I thought Blindsight specifically was the bane of illusions. I suppose it would be, were the illusion not quasi-real.
A cunning illusionist uses the enemy's strengths against them - a creature with Blindsight becomes so confident in its superior senses that it is much less likely to assume that what it encounters is illusory, and will poison its party with this confidence. This works great whenever you've got the standard "guess which one is the real me" con - by finding the "real" one, the PCs buy into the ruse that there's a real one at all.